Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I'm just going to say it... Donovan Mitchell.

He’s not the one that’s gonna get moved.

I’d like to get something like this done

Dinwiddie, Allen, Temple

For

Gobert

It’s a little short salary wise and one of Musa or Pinson would have to be added but that’s not a deal breaker for either side.

I'm just going to say it... Donovan Mitchell.

A bit surprising to hear this talk out of nowhere right now, but I don't think Jazz would move him if they had to pick between the two. He's still on his rookie deal, and they have his RFA rights. Gobert is an UFA after next season on the other hand.

Although I agree it's a lot more likely from the Jazz perspective that Gobert is moved, they probably can't get a ton for him.

But the actual important thing is, is Mitchell and his camp trying to force their way out of Utah now?

You have to imagine they'll dump Rudy in a last ditch effort before they move on from Mitchell unless their hand is fully forced though. In fact when the original Coronavirus Gobert news broke months ago I immediately thought it would cause big waves and he'd become available this off-season for a song. As good as he is, he's still just a rim running big man whose strictly a center and is a bit difficult to leave in, in end game situations and is inked to a huge contract. He probably already only had limited value, this has crushed it. Definitely an opportunity for a team such as us, or Boston, or maybe say, Chicago to swoop in and snap him up for salary filler and peanuts. Problem is we'd have to give up good players to get him just to match.

Well the way I see it Mitchell has very little leverage. The guy is an RFA next summer and unless he wants to be severely underpaid and risk injury for a year on a QO, he’s going to be in Utah for the foreseeable future.

Gobert on the other hand is an UFA next summer and could be looking for a chance to play in a big market on a contender after spending his youth in Salt Lake City.

Even if they move Mitchell there’s no guarantee that Gobert stays. If they move Gobert then there is at least some guarantee Mitchell stays.

Add the fact that Mitchell plays a more valuable position and it seems like a no brainer to me.

[MrDollarBills]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

[Stone]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

I agree with DJ coming back.

But I hope you are wrong about Marks tearing us apart. I want to see Caris, Big J and Spencer back next season. I even want to see Joe back but I think we are going to lose him. The whole dynamic is going to change when we get KD and Ky next season. I think the pieces we have are enough to go all the way as long as we are healthy.

I also would not be at all surprised if Jacque Vaughn is our coach next season.

[Papi_swav]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

I just don't know who they can trade all those pieces for? who would we actually get back that will fit ?

[vincecarter4pres]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

I just don't know who they can trade all those pieces for? who would we actually get back that will fit ?

I think Beal is a lot more realistic then it seems on the surface.

We have attractive pieces and a better package then most, especially the types of teams Beal and his agent would likely approve.

It could be a 3 or 4 team deal where Washington gets say LeVert and Allen and picks from us and a pick or a young player from a 3rd team with a 4th team sucking out some smaller value to help make it work under the cap with all the BYC guys we'd have outgoing.

And there's always an out of nowhere move like Harden years back, George last summer, Westbrook last summer, etc.

A couple of guys who come to mind for me are Olapido, McCollum and even Klay Thompson.

Jrue has to be discussed and I absolutely would not rule out Gobert or even Mitchell.

[vincecarter4pres]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

Even though we're talking Gobert I mainly agree here and definitely agree with the rest of your take.

We might wind up retaining one of Dinwiddie or LeVert though.

Temple wound be good as gone though if his salary is needed in a summer deal Imho.

[vincecarter4pres]

He’s not the one that’s gonna get moved.

I’d like to get something like this done

Dinwiddie, Allen, Temple

For

Gobert

It’s a little short salary wise and one of Musa or Pinson would have to be added but that’s not a deal breaker for either side.

A bit surprising to hear this talk out of nowhere right now, but I don't think Jazz would move him if they had to pick between the two. He's still on his rookie deal, and they have his RFA rights. Gobert is an UFA after next season on the other hand.

Although I agree it's a lot more likely from the Jazz perspective that Gobert is moved, they probably can't get a ton for him.

But the actual important thing is, is Mitchell and his camp trying to force their way out of Utah now?

You have to imagine they'll dump Rudy in a last ditch effort before they move on from Mitchell unless their hand is fully forced though. In fact when the original Coronavirus Gobert news broke months ago I immediately thought it would cause big waves and he'd become available this off-season for a song. As good as he is, he's still just a rim running big man whose strictly a center and is a bit difficult to leave in, in end game situations and is inked to a huge contract. He probably already only had limited value, this has crushed it. Definitely an opportunity for a team such as us, or Boston, or maybe say, Chicago to swoop in and snap him up for salary filler and peanuts. Problem is we'd have to give up good players to get him just to match.

Well the way I see it Mitchell has very little leverage. The guy is an RFA next summer and unless he wants to be severely underpaid and risk injury for a year on a QO, he’s going to be in Utah for the foreseeable future.

Gobert on the other hand is an UFA next summer and could be looking for a chance to play in a big market on a contender after spending his youth in Salt Lake City.

Even if they move Mitchell there’s no guarantee that Gobert stays. If they move Gobert then there is at least some guarantee Mitchell stays.

Add the fact that Mitchell plays a more valuable position and it seems like a no brainer to me.

Yeah I'm guessing Gobert is gone, just not likely to Brooklyn.

I'll say this though, rookie contract, RFA or not, the Jazz have shown the smarts and propensity to get out ahead of things before they snowball time and time again. They're an extremely well run, savvy organization, who don't make impulsive moves, but certainty do make cold, calculated decisions for the best of the club and are honest with themselves about who they are in the grand scheme of things in the NBA landscape. They will not be caught with their pants down or operate from a position of fear or weakness.

[vincecarter4pres]

He’s not the one that’s gonna get moved.

I’d like to get something like this done

Dinwiddie, Allen, Temple

For

Gobert

It’s a little short salary wise and one of Musa or Pinson would have to be added but that’s not a deal breaker for either side.

A bit surprising to hear this talk out of nowhere right now, but I don't think Jazz would move him if they had to pick between the two. He's still on his rookie deal, and they have his RFA rights. Gobert is an UFA after next season on the other hand.

Although I agree it's a lot more likely from the Jazz perspective that Gobert is moved, they probably can't get a ton for him.

But the actual important thing is, is Mitchell and his camp trying to force their way out of Utah now?

You have to imagine they'll dump Rudy in a last ditch effort before they move on from Mitchell unless their hand is fully forced though. In fact when the original Coronavirus Gobert news broke months ago I immediately thought it would cause big waves and he'd become available this off-season for a song. As good as he is, he's still just a rim running big man whose strictly a center and is a bit difficult to leave in, in end game situations and is inked to a huge contract. He probably already only had limited value, this has crushed it. Definitely an opportunity for a team such as us, or Boston, or maybe say, Chicago to swoop in and snap him up for salary filler and peanuts. Problem is we'd have to give up good players to get him just to match.

It is kinda hard to value Gobert, because he is an elite defensive anchor in the regular season, and he has been undoubtedly the Jazz best player over the past few years in regular season. However, you're right, in the end, he's a rim running big man with very limited offense, and flaws that get exposed in the playoffs (defensively). I think getting him would make us the #1 seed in the East, but you have to think about how much he can contribute in the playoffs. And despite him being an expiring contract next season, I think the cost to get him will still be high. I think it would take Dinwiddie/Levert + Jarrett Allen to start the conversation, which is quite a bit to give up imo.

Agree with most of this, but:

Still think Mitchell has been their best player for his entire tenure there, rookie season included. He's a fantastic player.

I think the absolute top cost of Gobert is what you call a conversation starter. With you though, not sure if he's worth it or not. He is worth it for what we're trading, but is he worth giving up all our assets to not be able to jump on the next guy available? That is the ultimate question. Gamble, or strike now and hope he gets you a top seed and let KD, Kyrie and mercenaries war it out come playoff time with top home court? Or go forward and play the waiting game?

[MrDollarBills]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

I agree with DJ coming back.

But I hope you are wrong about Marks tearing us apart. I want to see Caris, Big J and Spencer back next season. I even want to see Joe back but I think we are going to lose him. The whole dynamic is going to change when we get KD and Ky next season. I think the pieces we have are enough to go all the way as long as we are healthy.

I also would not be at all surprised if Jacque Vaughn is our coach next season.

In order to get this team another big piece, we will have to trade all available assets. The guys that we watched grow up here will be sacrificed to make that happen

[MrDollarBills]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

Even though we're talking Gobert I mainly agree here and definitely agree with the rest of your take.

We might wind up retaining one of Dinwiddie or LeVert though.

Temple wound be good as gone though if his salary is needed in a summer deal Imho.

Temple is here because of Kyrie.

[DarkXaero]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

Even though we're talking Gobert I mainly agree here and definitely agree with the rest of your take.

We might wind up retaining one of Dinwiddie or LeVert though.

Temple wound be good as gone though if his salary is needed in a summer deal Imho.

Temple is here because of Kyrie.

You think Temple would be here if Marks didn't want him too? Temple and Kyrie weren't friends before, Kyrie respected Temple, and rated him because he felt that Temple played him well. Kyrie had a list of role players he would like on his team, and Temple happened to be one of them. But Temple ain't here because he was boys with Kyrie and KD, like DJ is.

[DarkXaero]

Although I agree it's a lot more likely from the Jazz perspective that Gobert is moved, they probably can't get a ton for him.

But the actual important thing is, is Mitchell and his camp trying to force their way out of Utah now?

You have to imagine they'll dump Rudy in a last ditch effort before they move on from Mitchell unless their hand is fully forced though. In fact when the original Coronavirus Gobert news broke months ago I immediately thought it would cause big waves and he'd become available this off-season for a song. As good as he is, he's still just a rim running big man whose strictly a center and is a bit difficult to leave in, in end game situations and is inked to a huge contract. He probably already only had limited value, this has crushed it. Definitely an opportunity for a team such as us, or Boston, or maybe say, Chicago to swoop in and snap him up for salary filler and peanuts. Problem is we'd have to give up good players to get him just to match.

It is kinda hard to value Gobert, because he is an elite defensive anchor in the regular season, and he has been undoubtedly the Jazz best player over the past few years in regular season. However, you're right, in the end, he's a rim running big man with very limited offense, and flaws that get exposed in the playoffs (defensively). I think getting him would make us the #1 seed in the East, but you have to think about how much he can contribute in the playoffs. And despite him being an expiring contract next season, I think the cost to get him will still be high. I think it would take Dinwiddie/Levert + Jarrett Allen to start the conversation, which is quite a bit to give up imo.

Agree with most of this, but:

Still think Mitchell has been their best player for his entire tenure there, rookie season included. He's a fantastic player.

I think the absolute top cost of Gobert is what you call a conversation starter. With you though, not sure if he's worth it or not. He is worth it for what we're trading, but is he worth giving up all our assets to not be able to jump on the next guy available? That is the ultimate question. Gamble, or strike now and hope he gets you a top seed and let KD, Kyrie and mercenaries war it out come playoff time with top home court? Or go forward and play the waiting game?

Hard disagree on the player assessment there, I think every Jazz fan agrees that Gobert is their best player easily. Don't get me wrong, I like Mitchell a lot (I wanted us to move up for him), and I think he's a very good youngish player who will likely be a multiple time All-star in his career. But so far, Mitchell is a high volume, average efficiency scorer, who also happens to be undersized.

Can Mitchell be a better player than Gobert eventually? Sure. His efficiency is trending up, and he'll end up being one of the top scorers in the league, in volume/efficiency. But he's not there yet. Gobert's impact in the regular season is tremendous, he is the top defensive anchor in the entire league. But it's not just his defense either, he's an elite rim runner in the league, averaging 15 PPG off just that on extremely high efficiency. He's a massive threat in pick & roll, and one of the best screen setters in the league. And sure he hasn't been that great in playoffs, but Mitchell has been even worse than him in postseason.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sold on the idea of trading for Gobert. I really do think he would make us the top seed in the East, with KD/Kyrie, and giving up Dinwiddie/Levert + Allen is a relatively low cost to get a player of his impact. Now I don't know how much of a **** Gobert is, because there are rumblings of his off the court issues being a problem. But if that stuff is exaggerated, and he can fit in with the guys here, I'm for it.

[vincecarter4pres]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

I agree with DJ coming back.

But I hope you are wrong about Marks tearing us apart. I want to see Caris, Big J and Spencer back next season. I even want to see Joe back but I think we are going to lose him. The whole dynamic is going to change when we get KD and Ky next season. I think the pieces we have are enough to go all the way as long as we are healthy.

I also would not be at all surprised if Jacque Vaughn is our coach next season.

In order to get this team another big piece, we will have to trade all available assets. The guys that we watched grow up here will be sacrificed to make that happen

I get the undertones MDB, I do, I share some of them myself, but this team is going to be so fun to watch if we have something crazy like Kyrie/Beal/KD as a trio.

[vincecarter4pres]

We aren't getting Gobert. Jordan will be the starting center for the foreseeable future to appease Kyrie and KD.

I am sticking to this prediction: the only players on this year's roster who will be back are KD, Kyrie, DJ, and Temple. The team underperformed and got a coach fired.

Marks will rip this roster apart and use all available assets to turn this into a contender. LeVert, Allen, and Dinwiddie are gone.

Even though we're talking Gobert I mainly agree here and definitely agree with the rest of your take.

We might wind up retaining one of Dinwiddie or LeVert though.

Temple wound be good as gone though if his salary is needed in a summer deal Imho.

Temple is here because of Kyrie.

Yeah, but he's not part of the super best friends like DeAndre is.

[Prokorov]

Unbelievable.

I mean, when is the last time a star player, went for the money, so to speak?

Paul George? Westbrook?

Westbrook is a weird, mis-wired dude who cares more about personal accolades then team success and PG was injury riddled and still almost left for LAL and then forced his way to LAC the very next off-season, after forcing his way out of Indiana.

The other big dogs left and/or took short extensions so they could control their futures. LeBron, twice. KD, twice. AD. Kyrie. Butler. Beal took the money, but the ultra short extension. Lillard is like the only guy you can point to on this one.

Barnes, Batum, Kemba, Tobias Harris, DLo, McCollum, these are the kind of guys who take the money, because they have to, in varying degrees, for varying reasons and yet most of them still left as well.

You've named plenty of examples yourself. Beal, PG, Westbrook, Dame, Beal. There's also Harden, and you could consider John Wall as well (took the contract pre-injury).

-PG forced his way out like a year into the deal to go to LA. Thats not a great example.
-Harden already was on a contending team when he took the money
-Dame/Wall are good examples
-Beal passed on the longer deal to keep flexibility to leave.

-Kawhi took the money in LA after 2 chances for supermax in SA/TOR
-Kyrie passed up supermax to go to the nets
-Durant passed up supermax to go to the nets
-Lebron passed up supermax to go to LA
-Davis tried to force his way to LA, then passed up supermax to go to LA (although like beal took less year for flexibility)
-Butler passed up on supermax to go to Miami

[Prokorov]

I think it's far from a certainty that Giannis is gone. Sure, Milwaukee sucks, and it is a small market team, no matter what, but they're legitimately the top threat in the East, and perhaps the NBA. They have a deep team that is built around Giannis' strengths, and they have one of the very best head coaches in the NBA. So if he's leaving, it's not because Milwaukee can't win, it's because he wants to be in a big market (and another winning situation obviously). But from what I've seen, Giannis might not be the type to make the big market move. I'm not betting on him staying, but I'm not betting on him leaving either.

I canonly think of 2 or 3 instances, where it was a bigger certainty someone would leave a contender in free agency then Giannis (lebron/kyrie/Kawhi).

The bucks being a top threat is irrelevant. Giannis could go to any of the other 29 teams and they would be contenders. he is a top 3 player. arguably #1, the reigning MVP and its not like he is surrounded by stars.

He could easily play in a major market and team with more talent. Butler/AD/Giannis in miami for instance?

I can think of a single realistic reason he would stay in milwaukee. if they wont the title this year plus the max money to me isnt even remotely close to keep him around

[Prokorov]

I'm just going to say it... Donovan Mitchell.

He’s not the one that’s gonna get moved.

I’d like to get something like this done

Dinwiddie, Allen, Temple

For

Gobert

It’s a little short salary wise and one of Musa or Pinson would have to be added but that’s not a deal breaker for either side.

We would need to add alot more. 2 unprotected firsts at least

[vincecarter4pres]

I mean, when is the last time a star player, went for the money, so to speak?

Paul George? Westbrook?

Westbrook is a weird, mis-wired dude who cares more about personal accolades then team success and PG was injury riddled and still almost left for LAL and then forced his way to LAC the very next off-season, after forcing his way out of Indiana.

The other big dogs left and/or took short extensions so they could control their futures. LeBron, twice. KD, twice. AD. Kyrie. Butler. Beal took the money, but the ultra short extension. Lillard is like the only guy you can point to on this one.

Barnes, Batum, Kemba, Tobias Harris, DLo, McCollum, these are the kind of guys who take the money, because they have to, in varying degrees, for varying reasons and yet most of them still left as well.

You've named plenty of examples yourself. Beal, PG, Westbrook, Dame, Beal. There's also Harden, and you could consider John Wall as well (took the contract pre-injury).

-PG forced his way out like a year into the deal to go to LA. Thats not a great example.
-Harden already was on a contending team when he took the money
-Dame/Wall are good examples
-Beal passed on the longer deal to keep flexibility to leave.

-Kawhi took the money in LA after 2 chances for supermax in SA/TOR
-Kyrie passed up supermax to go to the nets
-Durant passed up supermax to go to the nets
-Lebron passed up supermax to go to LA
-Davis tried to force his way to LA, then passed up supermax to go to LA (although like beal took less year for flexibility)
-Butler passed up on supermax to go to Miami

Just to add to this:

-LeBron to Miami from Cleveland originally
-LeBron from Miami back to Cleveland
-KD to GSW originally

[MrDollarBills]

I agree with DJ coming back.

But I hope you are wrong about Marks tearing us apart. I want to see Caris, Big J and Spencer back next season. I even want to see Joe back but I think we are going to lose him. The whole dynamic is going to change when we get KD and Ky next season. I think the pieces we have are enough to go all the way as long as we are healthy.

I also would not be at all surprised if Jacque Vaughn is our coach next season.

In order to get this team another big piece, we will have to trade all available assets. The guys that we watched grow up here will be sacrificed to make that happen

I get the undertones MDB, I do, I share some of them myself, but this team is going to be so fun to watch if we have something crazy like Kyrie/Beal/KD as a trio.

I'm fine with it as long as we start winning and playing championship level basketball.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm just going to say it... Donovan Mitchell.

He’s not the one that’s gonna get moved.

I’d like to get something like this done

Dinwiddie, Allen, Temple

For

Gobert

It’s a little short salary wise and one of Musa or Pinson would have to be added but that’s not a deal breaker for either side.

We would need to add alot more. 2 unprotected firsts at least

Honestly, really doubt this.

Yes, Gobert is a great player, especially at least on defense.

But what's the market for him, before this incident?

After, it's got to be worse.

He's not the type of total game changer you can build an entire squad around, in fact he's really only the 3rd piece type of player to at worst one superstar and one true star. Ironically that's our position right now though.

What teams need him so bad a bidding war starts? Especially that he has one huge contract year left, so a huge part of your cap in a season where the cap will likely temporarily tumble and then writing in stone you must full max him for him to stay the following year?

Is he better than Clint Capella? A tag team of an improving Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan? DeAndre Ayton? Of course, but by how much to forego any future trade opportunity?

Is he a better fit for Giannis then BLo? The Lakers making a move for him with AD? Sixers with Embiid? Miami with Adebayo? Questionable.

What do these teams have left for assets to make a better offer then Dinwiddie, Allen and expiring salary filler? Especially when Dinwiddie and Allen actually make tremendous sense to Utah on the court, not just on paper value?

Maybe a protected first added or maybe they want LeVert in Dinwiddie's place though, or Musa or Rodi as a throw in.

There are literally only 4 or 5 teams who would want and chase Rudy Imho, who have something of a decent package for him:

Us
Boston
Chicago
Indiana
Portland

Would Portland give up McCollum?

Would Indiana give up Sabonis and a slew of picks, or Turner?

Would Chicago give up Lavine and picks? Would Utah want to pair him with Mitchell or can they find the proper value in a 3rd team?

Would Boston give up Brown and a picks?

Would Washington go all out giving up tons of unprotected picks, this pick and/or maybe Rui in a bid to keep Beal and simultaneously having to secure Gobert?

If you can't answer yes to most of the above, where is his market, value-wise?

Will he have value? Absolutely. But I don't see it being that high. I think they'll be more concerned with making a move which brings back a player(s) who makes Mitchell happy and fits their system, especially considering they probably won't get a top prospect or pick back for him as the centerpiece, which would mitigate some of the damage if Mitchell eventually asks out anyway.