If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

[NyCeEvO]

Can you please point to the "many" Anti-vax statements he has put out?

Google/Twitter/instagram dont turn up much



Hopefully this is the case. It would not surprise me. I'm cautiously optomistic... But he could very well just be Anti-mandate and want to die on that Hill. Although, in the past his 'boycotts' had a pretty short expiration date.



The Polio and smallpox mandates ended before Kyrie was born, in the 70's, so im not sure that applies to him. They also were mostly limited to schools and few other public places. And they didnt impose any of the financial penalties of the NYC mandate. While COVID is a pandemic, and serious, I think it is a really poor comparison to something like Polio or small pox. Small pox killed 1 in 3 people who were infected. It had the ability to wipe out entire populations.

The NYC mandate is far over reaching. I agree with the idea of the mandate, but no exemptions, wiping away tenures and pensions. There is no legal/constitutional basis for that... and it looks like both of those will be removed or edited.


your lips to gods ears.

"Irving, who serves as a vice president on the executive committee of the players’ union, recently started following and liking Instagram posts from a conspiracy theorist who claims that “secret societies” are implanting vaccines in a plot to connect Black people to a master computer for “a plan of Satan.” This Moderna microchip misinformation campaign has spread across multiple NBA locker rooms and group chats, according to several of the dozen-plus current players, Hall-of-Famers, league executives, arena workers and virologists interviewed for this story over the past week."

This is from Rolling Stone just two weeks ago. There are many more, but not worth the effort to cut and paste. His supposed "principles" are ever changing, which I suppose is a good thing.

This is not a public statement from Kyrie Irving. However, reports such as that and the fact that Kyrie likely has been vaccinated before to play for Duke lead me to believe Kyrie is either an idiot or ignorant when it comes to this particular vaccine and is hiding his views behind this mandate to come off as a "voice for the voiceless". One could certainly protest work mandates while being vaccinated.

Kyrie has changed a lot since Duke. I’m sure there are many things he believed then that he no longer subscribes to.

He’s been quite public over the last few years about his spirituality. This seems to coincide with the passing of his grandfather (which he has openly stated had a major impact on him) and his desire to connect with his ancestral Native American roots. The death of loved ones can usher in ‘mid-life crises’ for a lot of people, regardless of their age.

I see him questioning/condemning the religious and economic systems to which many passively and unconsciously support and subscribe, as well as the authority that such institutions possess over our lives. That line of thinking isn’t unique in itself, but his inability or unwillingness clearly articulate and communicate his thoughts, coupled with that line of thinking which is also shared by many anarchists, anti-government and/or religious zealots makes it very easy to categorize him as being ‘just another one of those crazies’.

[NyCeEvO]

So if Kyrie is just anti-mandate, why didn't he get his vaccine before the mandate? Did he foresee the possibility of a mandate back in March/April and kept his options open in order to fight in in October?

He is at least vax hesitant if not anti-vax. Shifting his stance to anti-mandate is not telling the full story here.


Also, how does not complying with the mandate help voice for the voiceless? Can't he use the earning he was about to miss and set up programs to help? This reminds me of cab drivers strike in protests against Uber. That's as counter-productive as it gets.

Yeah, if I’m being generous, it’s clear that he hasn’t thought this through. I can understand the impulse to not follow the crowd. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn’t automatically mean it’s the right thing to do.

However, simply being a contrarian to popular opinion, because you believe ‘the world, the masses, big government, (fill in the other overused political boogeymen)’ is always wrong is just as unintellectual as believing that they are always right.

Too often I see people conflate contrarian thought with intellectualism. While no one changes the world thinking like everyone else, just because you think differently doesn’t mean you are right or being a critical thinker/intellectual.

[NyCeEvO]

Kyrie, for over a year, has put out and liked many anti-vax statements. That is a fact. Now he claims that he is just anti-mandate.

My conclusion is that he is paving his way for a return. He is now in the same boat as Trump and the governors of Florida and Texas, who all are anti-mandate but vaccinated.

It's a ridiculous position, given that virtually every state has vaccine mandates for public schools for measles, chicken pox, polio, et al and no one has ever said a word about that being an attack on freedom.

But the good news is that Kyrie will be back shortly. His changing narrative is a sign of his imminent return.

I don't care if he returns or retires. I'm done with him.

But the notion that public health requirements and mandates are some new, authoritarian overreach that violates American freedom is such a dishonest argument that I can't even take it seriously. It is absolutely disingenuous and absurd what I am seeing being written on here.

Every single person here has had to have been vaccinated to attend school. The United States has had vaccine mandates dating back to 1905 and earlier.

You do not have the right in this country to put other people's health at risk. You do not. If you think you do, go Google past Supreme Court rulings over the last century regarding vaccine mandates and educate yourself.

Kyrie does not have a moral, ethical , or legal ground to stand on here with this horse sh*t. He's a lying buffoon, and the moment he has to sit in front of The media, if he ever comes back, to explain his stance, he will embarrass himself and the organization.

+1000

But he will be back. He has moved from anti-vax to anti-mandate. Only a few more changes and he will be playing.
Kyrie is like Rodman. He likes attention and propagating the illusion that he is a serious thinker.

I’m just hoping that he’s ill-advised and doesn’t actually have a Messiah/Apostle complex.

He clearly does a lot of good, but his messaging is convoluted and could benefit from having someone else check want he wants to say and give their thoughts on how it would come across to other people before making posts or public statements.

Given that he’s in the limelight, has a lot of money, and advocates for spiritualism, it’s much easier for someone in his position to get swept up with Messiah complex compared to the average person.

[MrDollarBills]

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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I guarantee for the Nets to have gone to this point, Kyrie has to have done a lot more than what is being reported. I guarantee he told Marks he was going to get vaccinated and then reneged

[GTR11]

Downplaying financial aspect and thinking Kyrie is different breed is laughable. He can be tough here all he wants for some time, just watch what owners and them sponsors going to do next. He set a lot of players up. He can believe he smart and right all he wants. His actions say he's imbecile.

[GTR11]

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Kyrie is Muslim. Today he won't be allowed in better half of Muslim countries. If he wants to exercise that exemption he'd have to change his religion.

Has it actually been proven that he subscribes to Islam?

It seems like a lot of people assumed that because he decided to fast during Ramadan, it meant that he was a follower. However, plenty of self-described “spiritual, but not religious” people will participate in ‘religious’ activities because they believe that the act of doing certain rituals is valuable and good, not because they believe the religion the practice is associated with is the correct religion/path.

Even Kyrie’s instagram post from the other day seemed to imply that he doesn’t align himself with any particular religion.

I haven't seen him saying it, just went by few reporters tweet. Don't make me look it up, I don't even remember their names.

[NyCeEvO]

Kyrie is Muslim. Today he won't be allowed in better half of Muslim countries. If he wants to exercise that exemption he'd have to change his religion.

Has it actually been proven that he subscribes to Islam?

It seems like a lot of people assumed that because he decided to fast during Ramadan, it meant that he was a follower. However, plenty of self-described “spiritual, but not religious” people will participate in ‘religious’ activities because they believe that the act of doing certain rituals is valuable and good, not because they believe the religion the practice is associated with is the correct religion/path.

Even Kyrie’s instagram post from the other day seemed to imply that he doesn’t align himself with any particular religion.

I haven't seen him saying it, just went by few reporters tweet. Don't make me look it up, I don't even remember their names.

I wasn’t trying to critique you or asking you to do more research lol. I’ve seen those reports/tweets as well. I just wanted to know if you had any other information that corroborates those reports.

[MrDollarBills]

Has it actually been proven that he subscribes to Islam?

It seems like a lot of people assumed that because he decided to fast during Ramadan, it meant that he was a follower. However, plenty of self-described “spiritual, but not religious” people will participate in ‘religious’ activities because they believe that the act of doing certain rituals is valuable and good, not because they believe the religion the practice is associated with is the correct religion/path.

Even Kyrie’s instagram post from the other day seemed to imply that he doesn’t align himself with any particular religion.

I haven't seen him saying it, just went by few reporters tweet. Don't make me look it up, I don't even remember their names.

I wasn’t trying to critique you or asking you to do more research lol. I’ve seen those reports/tweets as well. I just wanted to know if you had any other information that corroborates those reports.

If I remember correctly he never said he was a Muslim but he was partaking in Ramadan. Which is perfectly fine.

I had no issues with stuff like that. I thought it was pretty cool. But, it is this stance that he has taken, now during his final days as a Net, is the final straw for me. Forget about basketball. The vaccinated rate of Black men and women ages 18-44 in New York City is frighteningly low. Him coming out through Shams with this nonsense isn't going to help, in fact it is going to embolden people to not get vaccinated. A lot of people will die as we head into the holiday season where spread is inevitable.

Kyrie is a contrarian that stands for nothing. All that talk about Empowerment and Black and Indigenous upliftment, and he goes right ahead to become the face of an antivax movement in the face of a virus that has done irreparable harm to our communities.

[Rich Rane]

Kyrie has changed a lot since Duke. I’m sure there are many things he believed then that he no longer subscribes to.

I'm sure plenty have a decade on after college. But there's learning and going down internet rabbit holes, something Kyrie's fallen victim to before with flat earthing.

Make no mistake, I fully support most if not all of Kyrie's decisions on and off the court up until this. I have no doubt in my mind Kyrie has a good heart as we've seen all his charity, but I really do think he's hiding an anti-vax stance here behind being anti-mandate. If that's really the case, I honestly can't support that, this coming from someone that's lost family and friends to this pandemic.

[NyCeEvO]

I haven't seen him saying it, just went by few reporters tweet. Don't make me look it up, I don't even remember their names.

I wasn’t trying to critique you or asking you to do more research lol. I’ve seen those reports/tweets as well. I just wanted to know if you had any other information that corroborates those reports.

If I remember correctly he never said he was a Muslim but he was partaking in Ramadan. Which is perfectly fine.

I had no issues with stuff like that. I thought it was pretty cool. But, it is this stance that he has taken, now during his final days as a Net, is the final straw for me. Forget about basketball. The vaccinated rate of Black men and women ages 18-44 in New York City is frighteningly low. Him coming out through Shams with this nonsense isn't going to help, in fact it is going to embolden people to not get vaccinated. A lot of people will die as we head into the holiday season where spread is inevitable.

Kyrie is a contrarian that stands for nothing. All that talk about Empowerment and Black and Indigenous upliftment, and he goes right ahead to become the face of an antivax movement in the face of a virus that has done irreparable harm to our communities.

I hear you and mostly agree with your critiques.

The only thing that holds me back from going completely against him is that he does have a very public track record of him doing great things for our communities. And yet even for those things, he doesn’t talk about them himself; other people report what he does.

This is why I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that while I do think he has contrarian tendencies, I am guessing (based on my limited knowledge of his actual thoughts) that it is more often due to ignorance than actual ill-intent.

I don’t know who, if anyone, is advising Kyrie but he desperately needs a wise, trusted confidant who can give him perspective and honest criticism. He’s not only sabotaging future earnings, more importantly he’s tarnishing his public persona and legacy to the point of it being irreparable. You know…considering how close he was with Kobe, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kobe was that guy for him.

Regardless, he or someone else close to him needs to speak some sense into him to realize the damage he’s doing to himself as well as the youth black, indigenous,and other minority communities who are swayed by popularity and elementary-level analysis. Being caricatured and weaponized by Ted Cruz and Donald Trump Jr for political points is the last thing any strong, independent, black male with a voice should condone, even if (God forbid) he was anti-vax. He needed to lead with action months ago. For this type of issue, silence is compliance.

Isn’t it ironic that a lot of the retired old head stars like Kareem, MJ, Charles Barkley are the ones declaring how important it is to get vaccinated while so many of the current players are silent.

[NyCeEvO]

Kyrie has changed a lot since Duke. I’m sure there are many things he believed then that he no longer subscribes to.

I'm sure plenty have a decade on after college. But there's learning and going down internet rabbit holes, something Kyrie's fallen victim to before with flat earthing.

Make no mistake, I fully support most if not all of Kyrie's decisions on and off the court up until this. I have no doubt in my mind Kyrie has a good heart as we've seen all his charity, but I really do think he's hiding an anti-vax stance here behind being anti-mandate. If that's really the case, I honestly can't support that, this coming from someone that's lost family and friends to this pandemic.

Yeah, my heart wants to believe he’s not anti-vax but my head says he’s had all of this time to get vaccinated and have his any questions answered by many of the world’s elite scientists and physicians. He’s privileged beyond belief when it comes to access to resources, and yet we’re encroaching upon the start of the regular season and he’s only now supposedly stating that he’s not anti-vax but just merely anti-mandate? A lot of things don’t add up.

I just hope that if he was or even still is anti-vax that he gets answers to all of his questions and his fears and concerns are allayed. Everyday this drags on, the more attention this draws and the more people this affects. Kyrie still has the potential to do more good than any other active NBA player by loudly and proudly advising people to get vaccinated and by connecting people who are confused or still have questions to the specialists he has access to in the medical field. AFAIK, most NBA players (except those like KAT who suffered through COVID) haven’t actually come out and vocalized support for vaccination.

And yeah, this pandemic has even had knock on effects for those who never got the virus. My dad lost his job due to the pandemic and passed away last August. I’m of the belief that had the pandemic not happened, he’d either still be here or would at least lived longer. The longer this goes on, the more destruction it wreaks on all aspects of society, but especially for those who have suffered and died from the actual disease.

My condolences to you, Rich.

[Rich Rane]

My condolences to you, Rich.

And to you as well, good sir.

[sogood]

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Yeah, he's not get vaccinated anytime soon.

Seems like he is more concerned with people losing jobs over people losing lives.

[enetric]

Doesn’t Harden stand to make more money if he becomes a free agent anyway? If so, I’m not worried about him at all.

I’d only be concerned about him leaving if the Lakers had the cap space to sign him, but since they don’t (I assume, haven’t looked it up) I don’t think we’ll really be in serious competition with any other team for his services. Plus, other teams don’t have an elite off-ball superstar like KD, whose game isn’t predicted on ball domination like Harden. It’s as good of a high level talent match as you can ask for. I think Harden knows this.

Hey buddy how are you? One problem. Knicks can create the cap space and have tradeable assets now. Something could be put together.

Hey E, how’s it going?

I think Harden would only consider going to another contender. He’s done being the lone superstar and losing in the playoffs.

Harden demanded out of HOU because he was tired of lifting such a heavy burden. After the trade to the Nets, he was asked about how he felt about no longer be in the running for NBA scoring leader. He responded by stating that 1) he’s never really cared about being the top scorer and just did what was required to win and 2) that he got a lot of negative press from the media for being so ISO-driven, so hopefully they’ll treat him better now that he no longer has to do that.

In short, I don’t think Harden considers joining any team that doesn’t have at least one other superstar.

I think the chance of him joining the Warriors is next to nil.
The Lakers would’ve been the biggest competitor, but they’ve taken themselves out of the conversation since they don’t have the cap space to afford.
There’s no way he’s teaming up with CP3 again in PHX.
Denver just destroyed their cap by giving Michael Porter Jr a max contract.
Miami, Milwaukee, and Philly (in that order) are the only other teams who could be attractive to him talent wise. If MIL paid Middleton, they no longer have the cap space to afford him. As long as Ben Simmons on the roster, there’s no way they’d agree to play together.

That basically leaves Miami. Durant is better than any one that roster, and if Kyrie can actually get his act together professionally, a chance to play with Kyrie and Durant-level talents on a team for multiple seasons is once-in-a-lifetime. I just can’t see Harden passing that up.

I agree, contender. But the Knicks are in a nice position to easily create cap space, have Randle and have tradeable assets for the next disgruntled star. So I can see them being a legit threat to us there. A doomsday scenario we dont want to see. I do expect him to sign with us...however, I think we have to see the possibilities.

[GTR11]

Whatever it means.

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[Pablo Escobar]

If he doesn't get vaccinated you can't punish Kd and Harden for this guy not showing up to work. Nets gotta trade him or he'll just walk in free agency and you get nothing.

[MGrand15]

My takeaways from Kyrie's rant:

For some reason he admitted he wasnt / isn't acting rationally after the pandemic and all the people that died.

The NYC mandate threw him off because he was assured he'd either get an exemption or be able to play normally unvaxxed. The mandate came close to the season so he felt like his back was against the wall.

I don't think he believes in the microchips or the super ridiculous anti-vax conspiracies but this dude isn't getting vaccinated. It's not happening.

He clearly said he's not thinking of retirement. My guess is this makes a trade a lot more likely. I don't think these mandates are going to loosen up any time soon.

Nothing more ironic to me than Kyrie on IG live with Marbury in the chat hyping him up. Some executive last off-season said Kyrie was in the Marbury stage of his career where basketball wasn't important. Just funny to see them on the same page now.

It's honestly just sad for me to watch. Kyrie does a lot of good and in a lot of ways I think he's misunderstood but he's dead wrong on this issue. He's emboldening all the wrong people. He's pushing people away from science. I just can't rock with anyone who feels that way who was around NY when COVID was at it's worst. Or paid attention when countries legitimately didn't know what to do with all the dead bodies, obituaries filled newspapers completely, the whole world shut down. I don't have the energy to argue with anti-vaxxers - just like I didn't have energy to argue with the COVID deniers in 2020.

Glue Guy's podcast said something like this about Kyrie. He might have good intentions but he has a huge blind spot for the type of media pressure he puts on his teammates. He was totally OK sitting back and saying nothing when all the pressure was on Nash, KD, Harden to answer these difficult questions in the media. Now that the heat is on him, he finally decides to speak.

[GordanFreeman]

I still think Kyrie will get the shot.

Is he that stupid that he will give up 30 million dollars? Money talks louder than anything else.

Marks is giving Kyrie the Simmons treatment. Smart.

i doubt the money matters to him. he makes more off the court

You thought it wouldn't get to this point eh? Dollarbills and a few others were telling you otherwise.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Kyrie is lost man.

He really thinks hes taking a stand by not getting shot. Hes convinced he some Muhammad Ali type figure.

Its sad. He has no trade value right now at all. Every team thinks hes nut.

I think just let this play out. If he comes back then he can play. Otherwise just go at it with the team we have.

This is still the best team in the East without Kyrie. I believe that easily.

[Whiskey Slick]

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Kyrie has some kind of MLK, Malcolm X or Jimmy Hoffa complex.

Dude, you're not MLK, Malcolm or Jimmy Hoffa, you're just some kid who was blessed with a gift to put a round ball in a round hole and make it look thrilling. It's a nice trick and you get paid a helluva lot more for it than most people do, so you should have the some gratitude to God and USE IT.