The Official Andrea Bargnani Thread

Prokorov · Post #481 » by **Prokorov** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:24 pm

jbeachboy wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
jbeachboy wrote:jack mentioned they might go big lineup with lopez, bargs at 4, thad at 3, joe at 2 at times

I can see it at times but not for heavy minutes. That line up is horrific defensively, the only defense that you'd remotely get is some rim protection from Brook and Thad plays better against guys that face up as opposed to posting him up and annihilating him

that would probably be to get more offense or to take advantage of a smaller team

you arent getting more offense by swapping bogs for andrea. bogs is a better offensive player.

Prokorov · Post #482 » by **Prokorov** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:26 pm

danmuru wrote:What I read here is incredibile for anyone who saw him playing some week ago very well defensively against Pau, Dirk and also Jonas Valanciunas... u guys should stop reading some """"experts"""" articles and just watch him play

what bargs does in international play to me is super meaningless. different league, different rules, different roles. the fact that he has sucked for like 7 years in the nba is what matters. he will certainly be a major negative for us, as he has been his entire career. because he is a selfish inefficient offensive player who sucks defensively and has no concept of team basketball and a low bbiq

Net Sentence · Post #483 » by **Net Sentence** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:34 pm

kerry kittles wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Bargnani is going to have to give 100% effort. It doesn't matter how good he looks here in FIBA competition, in practice and in games he will have to play hard or he will be benched. Hollins doesn't tolerate lazy players.

Bargs is playing for his next contract this year. He will be giving it the old "contract year" try.

Was he not giving it the old "contract year" try last year?

The Knicks were a dumpster fire last year. He didnt want to come back from the IR because by that time Melo was done for the season, Shump and JR were shipped out and the Knicks were in full on tank mode. It was a no win position for him. If he comes back and plays well then he is accused of putting up empty numbers on a losing team. He would have been expected to be the "man" again which I have said repeatedly that he isnt meant to be.

He is far removed from having to be the franchise guy here. All we are going to ask from him is to do what he does well. On nights where he doesnt have it he wont have to carry the team. That's a lot easier role to be successful in.

Hollins was a big reason why Bargnani was brought in. He did wonders for Zach Randolph in Memphis. Before Hollins, Z-Bo was thought of in a similar light as Bargs. Puts up numbers on a loosing team. Randolph and Bargs are very different players as far as playing styles are concerned but my point still stands. Marc Gasol went from a throw in in the Pau trade to a franchise player. Tony Allen was cast off from a talentless Boston team to the DPOY. Mike Conley looked like a bust but largely credits Hollins for turning him into a top PG. Not everone is going to respond to Hollins type of coaching. DWill didnt. But Hollins has done wonders with Lopez and Bogs development.

Bargs is a lottery ticket. If I had to bet, I would guess that he vastly outproduces his contract this year.

Mangiacake · Post #484 » by **Mangiacake** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:56 pm

Prokorov wrote:
danmuru wrote:What I read here is incredibile for anyone who saw him playing some week ago very well defensively against Pau, Dirk and also Jonas Valanciunas... u guys should stop reading some """"experts"""" articles and just watch him play

what bargs does in international play to me is super meaningless. different league, different rules, different roles. the fact that he has sucked for like 7 years in the nba is what matters. he will certainly be a major negative for us, as he has been his entire career. because he is a selfish inefficient offensive player who sucks defensively and has no concept of team basketball and a low bbiq

This is nonsense

Mangiacake · Post #485 » by **Mangiacake** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:00 pm

The only valid concern is if he can stay healthy

jbeachboy · Post #486 » by **jbeachboy** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:35 pm

bargs was always a role player or specialist, he never could be a high level starter due to his rebounding and defensive defiencies, hopefully he stays healthy. i wouldnt mind seeing karasev, justin harper, miller, moreira, or chris daniels though if bargnani gets injured

kerry kittles · Post #487 » by **kerry kittles** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 12:19 pm

Net Sentence wrote:
kerry kittles wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
Bargs is playing for his next contract this year. He will be giving it the old "contract year" try.

Was he not giving it the old "contract year" try last year?

The Knicks were a dumpster fire last year. He didnt want to come back from the IR because by that time Melo was done for the season, Shump and JR were shipped out and the Knicks were in full on tank mode. It was a no win position for him. If he comes back and plays well then he is accused of putting up empty numbers on a losing team. He would have been expected to be the "man" again which I have said repeatedly that he isnt meant to be.

He is far removed from having to be the franchise guy here. All we are going to ask from him is to do what he does well. On nights where he doesnt have it he wont have to carry the team. That's a lot easier role to be successful in.

Hollins was a big reason why Bargnani was brought in. He did wonders for Zach Randolph in Memphis. Before Hollins, Z-Bo was thought of in a similar light as Bargs. Puts up numbers on a loosing team. Randolph and Bargs are very different players as far as playing styles are concerned but my point still stands. Marc Gasol went from a throw in in the Pau trade to a franchise player. Tony Allen was cast off from a talentless Boston team to the DPOY. Mike Conley looked like a bust but largely credits Hollins for turning him into a top PG. Not everone is going to respond to Hollins type of coaching. DWill didnt. But Hollins has done wonders with Lopez and Bogs development.

Bargs is a lottery ticket. If I had to bet, I would guess that he vastly outproduces his contract this year.

Raptors and Knicks fans always gave excuses for Bargs. I have very low expectations and I'm not confident in his motivation when his drive/effort has always been a knock on him. If he goes out there plays well, isn't a sive, doesn't make the team worse, I'll be pleasant surprises.

Prokorov · Post #488 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 10:34 pm

Mangiacake wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
danmuru wrote:What I read here is incredibile for anyone who saw him playing some week ago very well defensively against Pau, Dirk and also Jonas Valanciunas... u guys should stop reading some """"experts"""" articles and just watch him play

what bargs does in international play to me is super meaningless. different league, different rules, different roles. the fact that he has sucked for like 7 years in the nba is what matters. he will certainly be a major negative for us, as he has been his entire career. because he is a selfish inefficient offensive player who sucks defensively and has no concept of team basketball and a low bbiq

This is nonsense

how is it nonsense? tons of guys who were good in Europe have come here and flopped. tons of guys who have flopped here have gone international and been outstanding(childress comes to mind). its a different game. different rules. different level of competition, different type of schedule.

Prokorov · Post #489 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Oct 1, 2015 10:35 pm

Mangiacake wrote:The only valid concern is if he can stay healthy

how is that the only concern? how about when he has been healthy in the past in the NBA and sucked?

danmuru · Post #490 » by **danmuru** » Fri Oct 2, 2015 9:01 am

Prokorov wrote:what bargs does in international play to me is super meaningless. different league, different rules, different roles.

I don't agree, but hey, we could discuss that.

Prokorov wrote: he will certainly be a major negative for us, as he has been his entire career. because he is a selfish inefficient offensive player who sucks defensively and has no concept of team basketball and a low bbiq

There is no connection with the previous sentence, and I guess you never watched him play.
Anyway, the real IMPORTANT thing is that you'll be there in 3 months to quote yourself after we get what he brings to this team

Prokorov · Post #491 » by **Prokorov** » Fri Oct 2, 2015 3:23 pm

danmuru wrote:
Prokorov wrote:what bargs does in international play to me is super meaningless. different league, different rules, different roles.
I don't agree, but hey, we could discuss that.

what part dont you agree with?

Prokorov wrote: There is no connection with the previous sentence, and I guess you never watched him play.
Anyway, the real IMPORTANT thing is that you'll be there in 3 months to quote yourself after we get what he brings to this team

i dont anticipate him being here long, or at least in the rotation long. he is one of the most negative players in the league on both ends. and he will be surrounded by mostly poor flawed 1 way players, which wont help him out much. its going to be a disaster like it was in NY and toronto

Mangiacake · Post #492 » by **Mangiacake** » Fri Oct 2, 2015 3:37 pm

You got that right ...he will be surrounded by flawed players and has always been surrounded by flawed players.

Prokorov · Post #493 » by **Prokorov** » Sat Oct 3, 2015 2:38 pm

Net Sentence wrote:
kerry kittles wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
Bargs is playing for his next contract this year. He will be giving it the old "contract year" try.

Was he not giving it the old "contract year" try last year?

The Knicks were a dumpster fire last year. He didnt want to come back from the IR because by that time Melo was done for the season, Shump and JR were shipped out and the Knicks were in full on tank mode. It was a no win position for him. If he comes back and plays well then he is accused of putting up empty numbers on a losing team. He would have been expected to be the "man" again which I have said repeatedly that he isnt meant to be.

He is far removed from having to be the franchise guy here. All we are going to ask from him is to do what he does well. On nights where he doesnt have it he wont have to carry the team. That's a lot easier role to be successful in.

Hollins was a big reason why Bargnani was brought in. He did wonders for Zach Randolph in Memphis. Before Hollins, Z-Bo was thought of in a similar light as Bargs. Puts up numbers on a loosing team. Randolph and Bargs are very different players as far as playing styles are concerned but my point still stands. Marc Gasol went from a throw in in the Pau trade to a franchise player. Tony Allen was cast off from a talentless Boston team to the DPOY. Mike Conley looked like a bust but largely credits Hollins for turning him into a top PG. Not everone is going to respond to Hollins type of coaching. DWill didnt. But Hollins has done wonders with Lopez and Bogs development.

Bargs is a lottery ticket. If I had to bet, I would guess that he vastly outproduces his contract this year.

are we really going to compare bargani to zack randolph?

Randolph was a stud 24/11 player before he got to memphis. and he was never an extreme net negative player like bargani. Bargani never sniffed anything close to what Zbo was pre-memphis.

Tony Allen was not a cast off. and he was all-NBA defense his last year in boston. its not like he morphed into a defenser once he got to hollins, he was already one of the best defenders once they got him.

bargani is not a lotto ticket. he isnt even a scratch ticket. he has nearly no upside and an enormous downside in that he likely hurts you every minute he is on the floor.

Prokorov · Post #494 » by **Prokorov** » Sat Oct 3, 2015 2:39 pm

Mangiacake wrote:You got that right ...he will be surrounded by flawed players and has always been surrounded by flawed players.

he is the most flawed player in the league himself, which doesnt help

IAmTheBest · Post #495 » by **IAmTheBest** » Wed Oct 7, 2015 4:35 pm

I hate to break it to you guys but Bargnani is a net negative and will do nothing good for your team. I don't know why the Nets got rid of a great player like Plumlee and Teletovic and replaced him with Garbnani.

First of all his defense is a problem. Despite the fact that he actually plays great man defense, his help defense is atrocious and this is a huge problem for a bigman. Help defense is far more important. He made Amare and Melo look like good defenders. He is not only somewhat lazy, but he also simply seems to be unable to grasp help defense and rotations. He looks lost. This has been the case since his toronto days. I don't know how well this will play out especially since your star bigman is brook lopez...not exactly an elite defender who could carry Bargz on defense

Second of all, he has no flow on offense. He could knock down some nice shots once in a while but more often than not he stops momentum or does something dumb.

Remember that when the Knicks got him, we went from a 54 win team to a 47 win team, and when the craptors lost him, they won the division.

I cant believe we traded next year's first round pick for him.

Mangiacake · Post #496 » by **Mangiacake** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:54 am

Yes it's all true... Bargniani can't carry a crappy team.

First of all when Bargniani left Toronto Demar was even Dworse then he is know and Kyle Lowry couldn't hit the side of a barn.It took fast and furious Urjii probably 30 plus trades includin Rudy Gay (then Lowry started to play better) to make the playoffs,at which time they pooped their pants.

Prokorov · Post #497 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:29 pm

Mangiacake wrote:Yes it's all true... Bargniani can't carry a crappy team.

First of all when Bargniani left Toronto Demar was even Dworse then he is know and Kyle Lowry couldn't hit the side of a barn.It took fast and furious Urjii probably 30 plus trades includin Rudy Gay (then Lowry started to play better) to make the playoffs,at which time they pooped their pants.

its not about carrying a crappy team. its about not having an enormous negative impact any time you step on the court. which is what you get with bargani, in any role, as we saw last year with the knicks.

he simply doesnt help on either end, doesnt play hard, and his game is not conducive to winning basketball

Mangiacake · Post #498 » by **Mangiacake** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:40 pm

You mean the role as a starter he usually is the best or second best player on the team.I guess the coaches are stupid.In NY the last 30 games he was healthy he played quite well,so please don't blame everything on him.And please stop using the hater terminology such as he "seems, doesn't care, no heart,cancer garbage"...it's not true.

Oh good one a new subjective phrase we can add "not conducive"

MrDollarBills · Post #499 » by **MrDollarBills** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:01 pm

this guy is hurt already and its not even November.

SIC · Post #500 » by **SIC** » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:32 pm

I dont get what the big deal is.

Bargnani is only getting paid $1.5 mil. If he plays 10-15 min a game for 55 games, It is worth it. In those 10-15 mins, if he can score 6-10pts with the second unit, I dont see the big deal.

Bargnani isnt our core players. I dont think he is top 10 players. I think BKing took a shot at getting him. BKing has said that he thought Barg would go to the highest bidder.

Larkin, Bogs, RHJ, Thad, Lopez
Jack, Ellington, JJ, McC, T-Rob

Then you have Brown, Karasev and maybe Reed. I think Barg fits in but I dont think he is the future of this organization.

So I dont understand what the problem is with Barg. We didnt draft him at #1 or did we give him a huge contract or did we trade a First Round Pick for a rental.