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Carmelo Anthony Thread (Merging)

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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#501 » by treiz » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:31 pm

Petro45 wrote:
You ignored a key part of my post. We are going to have to pay through the nose in two years to keep Brook. So if our goal is to keep Brook, find another stud in the draft, AND still have any cap flexibility to make necessary moves, we'll need to land that "superstar" in the next two years. That's a pretty big gamble.

If we didn't have Brook, and had a four or five year horizon where we could build through the draft without having to worry about losing cap space to re-sign one of our supposed building blocks, that would be an entirely different situation, and I would be 100% opposed to this trade (versus unsure about it, which is my current status). But you have to acknowledge that we have a window here, or you're being disingenuous.


OK that's a fair point, we will need to keep Brook. however, if we keep cap flexibility and assets for now, Paul and Deron's contract expires in two years, if we struck out in the draft process, we can either trade some of our remaining assets to get a star, sign Brook to an extension and pursue Paul or Deron. Just because we're living in the present doesn't mean we have to make moves during the present. We can literally wait and suck get high draft picks and hope they pan out. If they don't then trade our remaining assets for a star, use our cap space to pursue Paul or Deron and extend Brook. It's a much more sensible way off building a team, we'll have flexibility for two years in which we can do anything. If a star wants to go, we can go after that star.

Why do we have a window? Everybody in the entire NBA knows that we are REBUILDING. There's no rush, we don't need to make moves just for the sake of making moves, we're rebuilding and we're only in year two of the rebuilding process. We can wait it out and be patient. If there's any sort of window, it's two years from now, in which we have to convince Paul/Deron to sign with us, but if you read the last paragraph, I feel that's a decent proposition.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#502 » by Rich Rane » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:32 pm

demens wrote:What was the offer before yesterday? Any discussion about a Melo trade always involved Favors, only delusional Net fans could think you can swap out Favor for Twitt or James. The offer always involved draft picks and it still does. And the offer always involved an exp. which technically it still does. You think Denver is adamant about who that exp. is, whether its Murphy or AK. You ever consider the possibility trading Devin rather then Murphy is the preference on THE NETS END? I dont see how it matters for Denver, and i dont see any sense in doing the Bobcats a favor either. What i do see is the Nets getting rid of a long term deal that Harris has and holding on to an exp with Murphy. Maybe to go after Parker next off season (and i think he would jump at the offer to play with Melo in NYC), maybe for something else.


1.) Do not directly or indirectly call me delusional again.
2.) Do not even respond to Number 1 or Number 2 through posting.
3.) That was the offer and it was the best one on the table to the teams Denver was catering to, which was mainly New York's offer of Gallinari or Randolph, Curry, and a 2014 1st and Chicago, which was Deng and his monstrosity of a contract and a 1st, which is not even possible because to match up the salaries, they would have to throw in Noah, which they are unwilling to do. That offer was the best on the table. If Denver doesn't bite, they get even worse offers by deadline as they would be more desperate to move him. Us? We take out a pick of the original deal and we still give Denver a solid player on a great contract, an expiring, and a pick. That's better than anything that's being offered or would be by New York or Chicago by trade deadline. If Melo really is serious on signing an extension, Denver definitely takes our offer and we accept.
4.) This rumored Melo deal still leaves everything to free agency with our cap. Does Tony Parker want a ring and perhaps sign with us or does he say...I've got my rings, a Finals MVP...do I stay with the Spurs, who give me the most money, even if it were for a short contract? Let's face that, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they wouldn't re-sign him, even with their decline. What if the Spurs decide to trade Tony Parker for something instead of risking losing him in free agency? A Melo trade like this makes our offers only as good as anyone else's, which would be expirings and a pick.
5.) No one is saying they don't like Melo, but this trade is only as good if it really brings in another superstar. Until then, this is what will split the Nets fanbase down the middle regarding this trade.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#503 » by Da_Kidd » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:37 pm

enetric wrote:
Da_Kidd wrote:Ehhhhh

I'd rather have Anthony Randolph.



WOW! 8 years....it took you to make me laugh? The orignal foe...the original cheerleader....showing a cynical humorous side in a RARE appearence????

Where the F is Rolly, Sharcm and Basketcase? Now I have seen it all...

Good to see you...


Life gets in the way, my friend (or foe?)

Grew a couple of gray hairs .. just a couple though. Haven't had time to contribute to the usual banter but I've always hovered around.

Don't worry, will definitely get back into it sooner than later.

For all the newcomers, I leave you with this quote which describes me and enetric: "i have the same tie as you, only the pattern is reversed."
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#504 » by treiz » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:37 pm

kmsmith5 wrote:
treiz wrote:
Look at that team and tell me who our PF is?

Not just that, but if we go after a Paul or Deron, how are we suppose to fill up the rest of the roster?


Make an offer to Horford. If it's matched re-sign Murphy for one year. Use Murphy's expiring at deadline along with picks and players depending on value(TWill, James, Morrow, Outlaw) to get Paul or DWill if they are available.

I'm only trying to show that cap space is not completely compromised with this proposed deal. I'm not saying it's ideal, just manageable.


The thing you've pointed out in the 1st sentence is what my ideal situation is, if the Nuggets don't want Murphy, fine, give them Harris, if they want Favors fine give them Favors but take out Harris, then use Murphy's contract along with Harris/Favors maybe in the deadline to make a package for Paul or Deron.

The cap space of course is manageable, but it will be compromised because Melo taking 40% of the cap will cripple our chances of landing another superstar whilst also having a solid team around them. Unless we somehow pull a Heat and they all decide to take massive pay cuts, then this situation is hopeless.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#505 » by jeff1624 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:40 pm

For the people who love the deal. Can you honestly tell me WHY Charlotte nad Utah are in this to begin with? Couldn't we ship out Murphy instead of Harris if all they're looking for is an expiring. How is Kirilenko's contratc that much better than murphy's?

I asked this yesterday but only JJ replied and even he didn't understand what's the point of involving these other two teams.

Also, the reason some of us aren't ''ecstatic'' over this deal is because we're dishing out all of our assets (Favors, draft picks, cap space and Harris unneccesarily so) for a few extra wins. A lineup of Farmar,Williams,Anthony,Murphy,Lopez is still pretty mediocre.. we MIGHT win 40 games.

I would feel so much better about this deal if Harris wasn't included. That way we'd still have a decent asset to offer in the future if cp3 were to ask for a trade (since they traded collison away harris would be a pretty decent player coming back to them in a CP3 trade).

And before someone replies with a.. BuT We'Re GeTTinG a SuPerStar, WhO CarEs AbOuT HARRIS!!............. we're not getting a superstar. He isn't Lebron who alone could add 20 wins to a team.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#506 » by SOUP » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:40 pm

Rich Rane wrote: Until then, this is what will split the Nets fanbase down the middle regarding this trade.


Wait.... I have us counted to about 7..... It doesn't work down the middle Rich!
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#507 » by treiz » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:41 pm

demens wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:I honestly don't see how you don't get we had the best offer on the table before yesterday on Melo's list of teams he'd prefer to be traded to.


What was the offer before yesterday? Any discussion about a Melo trade always involved Favors, only delusional Net fans could think you can swap out Favor for Twitt or James. The offer always involved draft picks and it still does. And the offer always involved an exp. which technically it still does. You think Denver is adamant about who that exp. is, whether its Murphy or AK. You ever consider the possibility trading Devin rather then Murphy is the preference on THE NETS END? I dont see how it matters for Denver, and i dont see any sense in doing the Bobcats a favor either. What i do see is the Nets getting rid of a long term deal that Harris has and holding on to an exp with Murphy. Maybe to go after Parker next off season (and i think he would jump at the offer to play with Melo in NYC), maybe for something else.


If that's the case, then I'd honestly say screw the Nuggets, we can offer you this package and we're not including Favors. I'd tell them to take it or leave it, and looking at what Chicago or the Knicks can offer, like our chances, if they leave it fine, continue the rebuilding process.

As for Murphy, that's what I've been speculating all along, I think they want to keep him not just to make sure we have someone at PF, but also to use him as a trade piece for another star.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#508 » by Netaman » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:44 pm

jeff1624 wrote:For the people who love the deal. Can you honestly tell me WHY Charlotte nad Utah are in this to begin with? Couldn't we ship out Murphy instead of Harris if all they're looking for is an expiring. How is Kirilenko's contratc that much better than murphy's?

I asked this yesterday but only JJ replied and even he didn't understand what's the point of involving these other two teams.

Also, the reason some of us aren't ''ecstatic'' over this deal is because we're dishing out all of our assets (Favors, draft picks, cap space and Harris unneccesarily so) for a few extra wins. A lineup of Farmar,Williams,Anthony,Murphy,Lopez is still pretty mediocre.. we MIGHT win 40 games.

I would feel so much better about this deal if Harris wasn't included. That way we'd still have a decent asset to offer in the future if cp3 were to ask for a trade (since they traded collison away harris would be a pretty decent player coming back to them in a CP3 trade).

And before someone replies with a.. BuT We'Re GeTTinG a SuPerStar, WhO CarEs AbOuT HARRIS!!............. we're not getting a superstar. He isn't Lebron who alone could add 20 wins to a team.


I agree with this completely and I brought it up yesterday as well. The only thing I can come up with is that the Nets find it more important to sell Carmelo on having cap room to get CP3 then to keep Harris. We are needlessly giving up a potential core piece to a team that is not delivering any benefit to Denver. We could easily give up Murphy who is nothing more then a role player.

The only thing I will say is that if we get Augustine back he might have as much value in a trade as Harris since he is cheap and young.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#509 » by treiz » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:50 pm

jman3134 wrote:
treiz wrote:
jman3134 wrote:
You made one point which I agree in which is why I don't want this trade. The superfriends down in Miami. Let's be honest here, either them, the Lakers, Celtics (maybe this is their last year), and Orlando are going to be the one contending. Now, IMO we should just let them contend and let us just be pure **** for the next couple of years. With that we can have a young core in place that can compete for the play-offs, like what Portland did. We'll have Brook further along, with Twill, hopefully Favors pans out as well as James and we'll have 2 or 3 more high draft picks depending on GSW. After that is accomplished, then go out and get a Chris Paul or Deron from free agency.


Okay, so you are substituting Chris Paul and or Deron Williams for Melo? That just proves that your argument is centered around your personal disdain for the guy and little more. Maybe it's not disdain. Maybe you just don't want Melo on the Nets for some undisclosed reason. But, it really does not make it justified.

If you want your team to suck because other teams are good, it really does not justify your position. Or if you simply want a slow rebuilding process, there are no pieces in place to assure anyone that the Nets can become the new Blazers. Wouldn't you rather at least be competitive?


The whole Deron and Paul thing. I like Melo, not one point did I say I hated him or disliked him or whatever, I just don't feel he's a player worthy of what we're offering, I feel there are better alternatives for this franchise to pursue, better directions.

My point is (from the VERY BEGINNING), is that I'd rather trade assets that is equal or less there market value obviously as would any team. But we're simply overpaying for Melo, like I said in another post, if Melo was in the 2nd or 3rd year of a 6-year contract, then I'd say we'd have to go for it, because that means we have no leverage, we can't low ball Denver into giving us Melo for nothing, but the fact is we can get Melo for a much lesser offer and use those saved up assets in order to to pursue another star to work with Melo and Brook, and considering that in a couple of years their contract expires, we move to Brooklyn, we have assets that we can use in a trade to maybe free up some cap, why wouldn't Paul or Deron want to come here and play with Brook and Melo?

Now, I know I'm going to get a response from some posters saying "Oh but we can do that anyway if we get Melo now". The main difference here is that we'll have flexibility to pursue anybody that wants out, we'll have plenty of options open AND we'll be able to build a much more solid team, rather than just filling the bench with minimum vet contracted players.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#510 » by demens » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:50 pm

jeff1624 wrote:For the people who love the deal. Can you honestly tell me WHY Charlotte nad Utah are in this to begin with? Couldn't we ship out Murphy instead of Harris if all they're looking for is an expiring. How is Kirilenko's contratc that much better than murphy's?


My explanation is in the post that treiz quoted above.

It really doesn't make any i difference on the Nuggets end, so the only way to make sense out of it is to look at the Nets end. And imo the Nets are the ones that prefer to trade Harris and keep Murphy and his exp.

We know that Nets had trade talks about Paul, so while they might like Devin and publicly says he is the guy, they have no issues trading him. Adding to the mix that there were already rumors that Melo and Paul wanted to team up. Whether its with the Knicks is irrelevant, as Melo is willing to "settle" for the other NY team so could Paul.

Another possible target is Parker who most of you would gladly take over Devin. And considering the circumstances, Parker being a free agent, news about how he wanted to play in NY (again the Knicks), Spurs decline and so on make a very realistic target.

So Devin is very replaceable, and the Nets are more then willing to replace him. Again, the only way it makes sense to trade him is if the Nets prefer to keep Murphy and his exp. over him knowing he can be replaced.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#511 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:52 pm

If we get Augustin back, I'm fine with jettisoning Harris, but reports are that Charlotte is pretty strongly made up their mind they will not include Augustin because they are needed to let this deal go down, which I think is bullocks, because Diaw is lucky to have neutral trade value, let alone positive and Devin should have similar value to what Kevin Martin and Al Jefferson brought back.

The Bobcats are straight robbing a fool if they get Devin for Diaw and I am not even that high on Devin, nor his trade value.

King and Proky are drunk on the Melo hype and ticket sales right now. It's that simple.
King wants to make a huge move to solidify himself in the eyes of the league as "being back" and Proky is simply concerned with building and selling his brand and Melo accomplishes that quite efficiently.
This isn't necessarily a basketball move, it's a business and ego move.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#512 » by treiz » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:55 pm

Rich Rane wrote:
demens wrote:What was the offer before yesterday? Any discussion about a Melo trade always involved Favors, only delusional Net fans could think you can swap out Favor for Twitt or James. The offer always involved draft picks and it still does. And the offer always involved an exp. which technically it still does. You think Denver is adamant about who that exp. is, whether its Murphy or AK. You ever consider the possibility trading Devin rather then Murphy is the preference on THE NETS END? I dont see how it matters for Denver, and i dont see any sense in doing the Bobcats a favor either. What i do see is the Nets getting rid of a long term deal that Harris has and holding on to an exp with Murphy. Maybe to go after Parker next off season (and i think he would jump at the offer to play with Melo in NYC), maybe for something else.


1.) Do not directly or indirectly call me delusional again.
2.) Do not even respond to Number 1 or Number 2 through posting.
3.) That was the offer and it was the best one on the table to the teams Denver was catering to, which was mainly New York's offer of Gallinari or Randolph, Curry, and a 2014 1st and Chicago, which was Deng and his monstrosity of a contract and a 1st, which is not even possible because to match up the salaries, they would have to throw in Noah, which they are unwilling to do. That offer was the best on the table. If Denver doesn't bite, they get even worse offers by deadline as they would be more desperate to move him. Us? We take out a pick of the original deal and we still give Denver a solid player on a great contract, an expiring, and a pick. That's better than anything that's being offered or would be by New York or Chicago by trade deadline. If Melo really is serious on signing an extension, Denver definitely takes our offer and we accept.
4.) This rumored Melo deal still leaves everything to free agency with our cap. Does Tony Parker want a ring and perhaps sign with us or does he say...I've got my rings, a Finals MVP...do I stay with the Spurs, who give me the most money, even if it were for a short contract? Let's face that, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they wouldn't re-sign him, even with their decline. What if the Spurs decide to trade Tony Parker for something instead of risking losing him in free agency? A Melo trade like this makes our offers only as good as anyone else's, which would be expirings and a pick.
5.) No one is saying they don't like Melo, but this trade is only as good if it really brings in another superstar. Until then, this is what will split the Nets fanbase down the middle regarding this trade.


I feel like posting a U MAD pic just because of 1) and 2) :lol:
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#513 » by Al n' Perk No Layups! » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:09 pm

treiz wrote:Al Jefferson (no complains there)
Sebastian Telfair (Proven talent?)
Gerald Green (Was nothing but a dunker)
Theo Ratliff (Expiring contract)
Ryan Gomes (Solid young guy with potential, kind of like James or TWill)
2 1st round draft picks


Green wasn't "nothing but a dunker," he was a highly rated prospect dubbed "the next T-Mac" by many and he was coming off of his sophmore year averaging double digit points. He had displayed a great jumpshot and world's of athleticism. He looks like a crap throw-in in retrospect because he busted (something that could very well happen to Favors). He had very legitimate value at the time. Telfair also had fairly significant value, though he was losing some of his luster by this time.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#514 » by Effigy » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:14 pm

Man, you guys are giving up a lot in this deal. I think it's too much. I like the Parker idea, but to get him, you're going to have to keep one of the draft picks at least to send SA's way along with Murphy's expiring. Maybe do Favors, Harris and your pick out, keep the GS pick and send that to SA?

By the way, I would call up the other teams who could use a PG and see if they'd facilitate. You could cut out Utah and Charlotte by involving Portland. I would think Portland would give up Joel and some combo (2 of the following) of Rudy, our first next year, Cunningham, or one of the rookies this year. Denver gets Joel's expirings and all or most of Portland's assets, while NJ gets to keep the GS pick and/or get some of Portland's assets to send SA's way for Parker.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#515 » by treiz » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:19 pm

Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:
treiz wrote:Al Jefferson (no complains there)
Sebastian Telfair (Proven talent?)
Gerald Green (Was nothing but a dunker)
Theo Ratliff (Expiring contract)
Ryan Gomes (Solid young guy with potential, kind of like James or TWill)
2 1st round draft picks


Green wasn't "nothing but a dunker," he was a highly rated prospect dubbed "the next T-Mac" by many and he was coming off of his sophmore year averaging double digit points. He had displayed a great jumpshot and world's of athleticism. He looks like a crap throw-in in retrospect because he busted (something that could very well happen to Favors). He had very legitimate value at the time. Telfair also had fairly significant value, though he was losing some of his luster by this time.


To each his own I guess, I thought Green was crap from day one, never once rated him. Although the birthday cake dunk was pretty sweet.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#516 » by 60cent » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:26 pm

Im not trying to jump into something and say "oh, sign this after and sign that" but... Imagine a line up of:

Paul
Melo
Horford
Lopez

Wow!
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#517 » by SOUP » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:33 pm

Horford! I forgot! Too bad he's a RFA =\. Would require some max cash + luck to reel him in.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#518 » by demens » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:40 pm

Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:
treiz wrote:Al Jefferson (no complains there)
Sebastian Telfair (Proven talent?)
Gerald Green (Was nothing but a dunker)
Theo Ratliff (Expiring contract)
Ryan Gomes (Solid young guy with potential, kind of like James or TWill)
2 1st round draft picks


Green wasn't "nothing but a dunker," he was a highly rated prospect dubbed "the next T-Mac" by many and he was coming off of his sophmore year averaging double digit points. He had displayed a great jumpshot and world's of athleticism. He looks like a crap throw-in in retrospect because he busted (something that could very well happen to Favors). He had very legitimate value at the time. Telfair also had fairly significant value, though he was losing some of his luster by this time.


Agreed. If the Nets add 1 more pick plus James, plus Twitt then the trade would be similar to what Boston gave for KG.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#519 » by demens » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:42 pm

SOUP wrote:Horford! I forgot! Too bad he's a RFA =\. Would require some max cash + luck to reel him in.


Depending on Atl financial situation and the new CBA. they let childress walk for nothing.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#520 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:44 pm

Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:
treiz wrote:Al Jefferson (no complains there)
Sebastian Telfair (Proven talent?)
Gerald Green (Was nothing but a dunker)
Theo Ratliff (Expiring contract)
Ryan Gomes (Solid young guy with potential, kind of like James or TWill)
2 1st round draft picks


Green wasn't "nothing but a dunker," he was a highly rated prospect dubbed "the next T-Mac" by many and he was coming off of his sophmore year averaging double digit points. He had displayed a great jumpshot and world's of athleticism. He looks like a crap throw-in in retrospect because he busted (something that could very well happen to Favors). He had very legitimate value at the time. Telfair also had fairly significant value, though he was losing some of his luster by this time.

Yeah right. :roll:
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