Around the NBA, 2017-18 Season thread

[MrDollarBills]

ehm...well. their mods locked the thread because apparently a **** show is brewing based off of an interview where Parker denied the Bucks offered him an extension offer and they told me to looking in that thread for answers...but I'll say this, here is one of the responses:

You should totally try to start a fan movement to offer him 4/$100m. Threaten to boycott. Do whatever it takes. Please do this. Thanks.

that's not very encouraging.

I'm reading through the thread Mickey Davis linked in your thread with the interview, lol it's bananas.

Maybe I'm Bari biased, but I'm reading A LOT of emotional butthurt itt from the posters low on him. The ones in the middle and the ones who are supportive of him seem to be pretty reasonable about the interview and it feels like Bucks gonna Buck kind of thing, where their ownership, front office and coaching is as suspect and player/team alienating as ever and Parker was just being honest to a fault in the interview out of frustration. I'm on about page 4 lol.

That board is a lot more crazed than this one. a lot less civil too, jesus some of those dudes are brutal

The commentary from the anti Jabari folks on there are like you and kamaze commenting on Russell, but after having a 2 hour coke bender. The rage is real

[vincecarter4pres]

Looking at this objectively this reminds me of how split this board is on Russell, but on steroids. So it's hard to really gauge things. I do notice however that his defense and effort are being called into question by more than a few posters. Also, people calling him anything ranging from "autistic" to a "space cadet" is alarming. But again, its hard to know what to take seriously and what is legitimate.

I will say this...thank god for Sean Marks and Kenny. Because there's some real frustration being expressed in that thread and the Bucks front office seems to be all over the place.

I feel like it's all a moot point anyway, because the Bucks probably match almost anything even if they don't especially want him back.

In a league where Allen Crabbe is matched, Otto Porter is matched after reports said they were weary on anything even above 4/80 at points, where Bazemore goes back to Atlanta and Williams to Charlotte once they offered them just a hair more than we did(thank god on those 2) to stay where they call home, where almost every decent restricted free agent is matched(besides THJ lol!), even if Marks and co. made the offer, he loved it, he signs... in the end the Bucks likely match, especially if it isn't max.

[MrDollarBills]

Dude, this is literally the same discussion about Parker that we're having about Russell right now.

Yeah, but how much do you pay for a net positive? I think he is a borderline starter with solid starter realistic potential. But you can't afford to be wrong when offering him 15-23 million. If he wants a Snell deal, Im all for it but its unlikely.

He still does things that drive coaches nuts. Like last night in the 2nd half he missed a 3 and ball came hard towards him. Instead of attacking the ball, he waited for it to come to him and a Celtics player came charging in from behind to get it.

I have a feeling if he were to somehow end up here he'd thrive in the system but he'd be attacked relentlessly on here because of how much he's being paid versus what he does wrong. Russell can't even tie his shoes without getting blasted, I'd shudder to think about what would happen if Jabari Parker is making 20 mil plus a season here.

This is why I say I would offer Russell a smaller deal like what Steph Curry got for his first contract extension and let Russell earn his way up to big time money. You can't balk at paying Russell (which is certainly fine to do so) and then advocate signing Jabari Parker when he clearly has some issues going on here.

[vincecarter4pres]

ehm...well. their mods locked the thread because apparently a **** show is brewing based off of an interview where Parker denied the Bucks offered him an extension offer and they told me to looking in that thread for answers...but I'll say this, here is one of the responses:




that's not very encouraging.

I'm reading through the thread Mickey Davis linked in your thread with the interview, lol it's bananas.

Maybe I'm Bari biased, but I'm reading A LOT of emotional butthurt itt from the posters low on him. The ones in the middle and the ones who are supportive of him seem to be pretty reasonable about the interview and it feels like Bucks gonna Buck kind of thing, where their ownership, front office and coaching is as suspect and player/team alienating as ever and Parker was just being honest to a fault in the interview out of frustration. I'm on about page 4 lol.

That board is a lot more crazed than this one. a lot less civil too, jesus some of those dudes are brutal

The commentary from the anti Jabari folks on there are like you and kamaze commenting on Russell, but after having a 2 hour coke bender. The rage is real

They do brew a lot of beer there lol.

[MrDollarBills]

Looking at this objectively this reminds me of how split this board is on Russell, but on steroids. So it's hard to really gauge things. I do notice however that his defense and effort are being called into question by more than a few posters. Also, people calling him anything ranging from "autistic" to a "space cadet" is alarming. But again, its hard to know what to take seriously and what is legitimate.

I will say this...thank god for Sean Marks and Kenny. Because there's some real frustration being expressed in that thread and the Bucks front office seems to be all over the place.

I feel like it's all a moot point anyway, because the Bucks probably match almost anything even if they don't especially want him back.

In a league where Allen Crabbe is matched, Otto Porter is matched after reports said they were weary on anything even above 4/80 at points, where Bazemore goes back to Atlanta and Williams to Charlotte once they offered them just a hair more than we did(thank god on those 2) to stay where they call home, where almost every decent restricted free agent is matched(besides THJ lol!), even if Marks and co. made the offer, he loved it, he signs... in the end the Bucks likely match, especially if it isn't max.

They will be in cap hell and they are all scared to death that Giannis will leave if they don't make the team better. If they were to match a large contract offer they will be doomed.

[vincecarter4pres]

Yeah, but how much do you pay for a net positive? I think he is a borderline starter with solid starter realistic potential. But you can't afford to be wrong when offering him 15-23 million. If he wants a Snell deal, Im all for it but its unlikely.

He still does things that drive coaches nuts. Like last night in the 2nd half he missed a 3 and ball came hard towards him. Instead of attacking the ball, he waited for it to come to him and a Celtics player came charging in from behind to get it.

I have a feeling if he were to somehow end up here he'd thrive in the system but he'd be attacked relentlessly on here because of how much he's being paid versus what he does wrong. Russell can't even tie his shoes without getting blasted, I'd shudder to think about what would happen if Jabari Parker is making 20 mil plus a season here.

Yeah but did you watch the game last night? I saw a ton of plays where he just straight got at it while others watched, even including the Freak.

And I know it's an excuse, but the way they play must become so frustrating. You almost wind up having mental lapses by default because you're standing around watching a guy like Bledsoe pound the ball into oblivion so often, or some other player is being called upon by the coach to iso and kill the clock to only get off a terrible shot. It's got to grate on guys.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm reading through the thread Mickey Davis linked in your thread with the interview, lol it's bananas.

Maybe I'm Bari biased, but I'm reading A LOT of emotional butthurt itt from the posters low on him. The ones in the middle and the ones who are supportive of him seem to be pretty reasonable about the interview and it feels like Bucks gonna Buck kind of thing, where their ownership, front office and coaching is as suspect and player/team alienating as ever and Parker was just being honest to a fault in the interview out of frustration. I'm on about page 4 lol.

That board is a lot more crazed than this one. a lot less civil too, jesus some of those dudes are brutal

The commentary from the anti Jabari folks on there are like you and kamaze commenting on Russell, but after having a 2 hour coke bender. The rage is real

They do brew a lot of beer there lol.

Yeah reading some of the comments and the vitriol I'd wager that there's more than a few day drinkers posting over there

that thread is entertaining as hell. i like Bucks fans.

[vincecarter4pres]

Looking at this objectively this reminds me of how split this board is on Russell, but on steroids. So it's hard to really gauge things. I do notice however that his defense and effort are being called into question by more than a few posters. Also, people calling him anything ranging from "autistic" to a "space cadet" is alarming. But again, its hard to know what to take seriously and what is legitimate.

I will say this...thank god for Sean Marks and Kenny. Because there's some real frustration being expressed in that thread and the Bucks front office seems to be all over the place.

I feel like it's all a moot point anyway, because the Bucks probably match almost anything even if they don't especially want him back.

In a league where Allen Crabbe is matched, Otto Porter is matched after reports said they were weary on anything even above 4/80 at points, where Bazemore goes back to Atlanta and Williams to Charlotte once they offered them just a hair more than we did(thank god on those 2) to stay where they call home, where almost every decent restricted free agent is matched(besides THJ lol!), even if Marks and co. made the offer, he loved it, he signs... in the end the Bucks likely match, especially if it isn't max.

They will be in cap hell and they are all scared to death that Giannis will leave if they don't make the team better. If they were to match a large contract offer they will be doomed.

They're already in cap hell, they at least have to S&T him for something they can use in the future.

I've thought maybe even something like Carroll or Lin plus Dinwiddie and a 2nd or 2, along with a resulting TPE for the balance is a positive move for them if they don't plan on matching an offer sheet.

At least that way they have a good young combo/point guard, a sizable TPE, a productive expiring to flip at the deadline if they so choose and get a second round pick or 2 out of it.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah, but how much do you pay for a net positive? I think he is a borderline starter with solid starter realistic potential. But you can't afford to be wrong when offering him 15-23 million. If he wants a Snell deal, Im all for it but its unlikely.

He still does things that drive coaches nuts. Like last night in the 2nd half he missed a 3 and ball came hard towards him. Instead of attacking the ball, he waited for it to come to him and a Celtics player came charging in from behind to get it.

I have a feeling if he were to somehow end up here he'd thrive in the system but he'd be attacked relentlessly on here because of how much he's being paid versus what he does wrong. Russell can't even tie his shoes without getting blasted, I'd shudder to think about what would happen if Jabari Parker is making 20 mil plus a season here.

Yeah but did you watch the game last night? I saw a ton of plays where he just straight got at it while others watched, even including the Freak.

And I know it's an excuse, but the way they play must become so frustrating. You almost wind up having mental lapses by default because you're standing around watching a guy like Bledsoe pound the ball into oblivion so often, or some other player is being called upon by the coach to iso and kill the clock to only get off a terrible shot. It's got to grate on guys.

Yeah I watched, I thought he played well. He played pretty badly in the games before that though.

Like I said, he'd be a good system fit offensively and would probably easily average 20ppg imo here if he can stay healthy. but I'm still not sold. I don't think we should commit big long term salary to guys like Russell or Jabari because the uncertainty for both players is pretty unnerving.

[MrDollarBills]

I feel like it's all a moot point anyway, because the Bucks probably match almost anything even if they don't especially want him back.

In a league where Allen Crabbe is matched, Otto Porter is matched after reports said they were weary on anything even above 4/80 at points, where Bazemore goes back to Atlanta and Williams to Charlotte once they offered them just a hair more than we did(thank god on those 2) to stay where they call home, where almost every decent restricted free agent is matched(besides THJ lol!), even if Marks and co. made the offer, he loved it, he signs... in the end the Bucks likely match, especially if it isn't max.

They will be in cap hell and they are all scared to death that Giannis will leave if they don't make the team better. If they were to match a large contract offer they will be doomed.

They're already in cap hell, they at least have to S&T him for something they can use in the future.

I've thought maybe even something like Carroll or Lin plus Dinwiddie and a 2nd or 2, along with a resulting TPE for the balance is a positive move for them if they don't plan on matching an offer sheet.

At least that way they have a good young combo/point guard, a sizable TPE, a productive expiring to flip at the deadline if they so choose and get a second round pick or 2 out of it.

how much would you be willing to commit to though cap wise?

[vincecarter4pres]

I have a feeling if he were to somehow end up here he'd thrive in the system but he'd be attacked relentlessly on here because of how much he's being paid versus what he does wrong. Russell can't even tie his shoes without getting blasted, I'd shudder to think about what would happen if Jabari Parker is making 20 mil plus a season here.

Yeah but did you watch the game last night? I saw a ton of plays where he just straight got at it while others watched, even including the Freak.

And I know it's an excuse, but the way they play must become so frustrating. You almost wind up having mental lapses by default because you're standing around watching a guy like Bledsoe pound the ball into oblivion so often, or some other player is being called upon by the coach to iso and kill the clock to only get off a terrible shot. It's got to grate on guys.

Yeah I watched, I thought he played well. He played pretty badly in the games before that though.

Like I said, he'd be a good system fit offensively and would probably easily average 20ppg imo here if he can stay healthy. but I'm still not sold. I don't think we should commit big long term salary to guys like Russell or Jabari because the uncertainty for both players is pretty unnerving.

I'd prefer we had him over Russell. I get what you're saying though, I'm moving the goalposts now.

[emunney]

I'll give you my Jabari Cliff's notes:

Pros:
- Pretty good feel handling the ball in two man action, personally feel he should be getting a lot more pick and roll opportunities
- Extremely high skill level for a man his size
- Quicker than he was last year before the 2nd ACL
- He's not a ball-stopper, not a selfish player
- Can score from anywhere
- When he's *really* focused, and the scheme is simple enough, he can be ok defensively

Cons:
- He is very rarely focused defensively. Even when he is, if you challenge him with multiple actions off the ball, he can't keep up and will leave somebody wide open.
- That left knee is scary. He doesn't seem to have full confidence in it yet. Considering all he's been through, it's not a given he ever will.
- This is Bucks-specific, but plays into the attitudes about him that you read on our board: he doesn't fit super well with Giannis. They both want to get to the same spots. Jabari can spread the floor for Giannis, but Giannis can't do the same for Jabari. I've been begging for Jabari/Giannis pick and rolls but it doesn't seem like something we're ever going to see at this point.
- He's moody and his play reflects his mood. It was *shocking* how bad he was in the first two games in this series. Seems like he needs a very specific kind of coaching.
- He was coached by Jason Kidd for his first three+ years.

For what it's worth, I think he'd probably flourish offensively with Atkinson. If his coach tells him to take every open 3, he'll do it. He'd hit a lot and he's devastating attacking closeouts. Kidd FORBADE him from taking them for a long time. Really screwed him up.

[vincecarter4pres]

They will be in cap hell and they are all scared to death that Giannis will leave if they don't make the team better. If they were to match a large contract offer they will be doomed.

They're already in cap hell, they at least have to S&T him for something they can use in the future.

I've thought maybe even something like Carroll or Lin plus Dinwiddie and a 2nd or 2, along with a resulting TPE for the balance is a positive move for them if they don't plan on matching an offer sheet.

At least that way they have a good young combo/point guard, a sizable TPE, a productive expiring to flip at the deadline if they so choose and get a second round pick or 2 out of it.

how much would you be willing to commit to though cap wise?

Idk.

Just spitballing a perspective fictional scenario where Dinwiddie/Carroll/Knix or Indiana 2nd/small TPE gets it done, can all 3 parties agree on a frontloaded deal where he gets say, 4/68? Or maybe something a little lower but with big bonus incentives, such as games played?

[MrDollarBills]

I'll give you my Jabari Cliff's notes:

Pros:
- Pretty good feel handling the ball in two man action, personally feel he should be getting a lot more pick and roll opportunities
- Extremely high skill level for a man his size
- Quicker than he was last year before the 2nd ACL
- He's not a ball-stopper, not a selfish player
- Can score from anywhere
- When he's *really* focused, and the scheme is simple enough, he can be ok defensively

Cons:
- He is very rarely focused defensively. Even when he is, if you challenge him with multiple actions off the ball, he can't keep up and will leave somebody wide open.
- That left knee is scary. He doesn't seem to have full confidence in it yet. Considering all he's been through, it's not a given he ever will.
- This is Bucks-specific, but plays into the attitudes about him that you read on our board: he doesn't fit super well with Giannis. They both want to get to the same spots. Jabari can spread the floor for Giannis, but Giannis can't do the same for Jabari. I've been begging for Jabari/Giannis pick and rolls but it doesn't seem like something we're ever going to see at this point.
- He's moody and his play reflects his mood. It was *shocking* how bad he was in the first two games in this series. Seems like he needs a very specific kind of coaching.
- He was coached by Jason Kidd for his first three+ years.

For what it's worth, I think he'd probably flourish offensively with Atkinson. If his coach tells him to take every open 3, he'll do it. He'd hit a lot and he's devastating attacking closeouts. Kidd FORBADE him from taking them for a long time. Really screwed him up.

Thank you for the objective assessment. The cons are concerning but the pros really sound like he'd definitely explode offensively in Kenny's system.

Kidd is a snake, I think I even made a post on your board a few years back warning you that the end would be ugly.

[MrDollarBills]

They're already in cap hell, they at least have to S&T him for something they can use in the future.

I've thought maybe even something like Carroll or Lin plus Dinwiddie and a 2nd or 2, along with a resulting TPE for the balance is a positive move for them if they don't plan on matching an offer sheet.

At least that way they have a good young combo/point guard, a sizable TPE, a productive expiring to flip at the deadline if they so choose and get a second round pick or 2 out of it.

how much would you be willing to commit to though cap wise?

Idk.

Just spitballing a perspective fictional scenario where Dinwiddie/Carroll/Knix or Indiana 2nd/small TPE gets it done, can all 3 parties agree on a frontloaded deal where he gets say, 4/68? Or maybe something a little lower but with big bonus incentives, such as games played?

I'd do 4 for 56 with a team option in year 3, player option in year 4.

[NyCeEvO]

Looking at this objectively this reminds me of how split this board is on Russell, but on steroids. So it's hard to really gauge things. I do notice however that his defense and effort are being called into question by more than a few posters. Also, people calling him anything ranging from "autistic" to a "space cadet" is alarming. But again, its hard to know what to take seriously and what is legitimate.

I will say this...thank god for Sean Marks and Kenny. Because there's some real frustration being expressed in that thread and the Bucks front office seems to be all over the place.

I feel like it's all a moot point anyway, because the Bucks probably match almost anything even if they don't especially want him back.

In a league where Allen Crabbe is matched, Otto Porter is matched after reports said they were weary on anything even above 4/80 at points, where Bazemore goes back to Atlanta and Williams to Charlotte once they offered them just a hair more than we did(thank god on those 2) to stay where they call home, where almost every decent restricted free agent is matched(besides THJ lol!), even if Marks and co. made the offer, he loved it, he signs... in the end the Bucks likely match, especially if it isn't max.

All of those players that you referenced don't have the injury history Jabari has.

Additionally, I think the league is (finally) starting to realize that offering or matching non-allstars to bloated contracts can really screw up the cap for the entire team.

Nothing that Parker has done this year makes me want him more than I did in the past. In fact, if anything, I'm less inclined to bring him on unless he's signed to a low contract that the Bucks would undoubtedly match.

[Prokorov]

I have a feeling if he were to somehow end up here he'd thrive in the system but he'd be attacked relentlessly on here because of how much he's being paid versus what he does wrong. Russell can't even tie his shoes without getting blasted, I'd shudder to think about what would happen if Jabari Parker is making 20 mil plus a season here.

Disagree... guys just dont like Dlo. or are biased. Crabbe makes idiotic money, got outplayed by joe harris and regressed offensively and he has more support then most net players. this board, more then anything, has homer tendencies. if we get parker, he will hyped. he will have a short leash, but get hyped

This is why I say I would offer Russell a smaller deal like what Steph Curry got for his first contract extension and let Russell earn his way up to big time money. You can't balk at paying Russell (which is certainly fine to do so) and then advocate signing Jabari Parker when he clearly has some issues going on here.

i dont see how we can sign parker. we have like 13M in cap. but if we can, then we are over the cap and may as well pay everyone at that point

[emunney]

how much would you be willing to commit to though cap wise?

Idk.

Just spitballing a perspective fictional scenario where Dinwiddie/Carroll/Knix or Indiana 2nd/small TPE gets it done, can all 3 parties agree on a frontloaded deal where he gets say, 4/68? Or maybe something a little lower but with big bonus incentives, such as games played?

I'd do 4 for 56 with a team option in year 3, player option in year 4.

FWIW you can only do one option and one option year (except for FRP rookie scale contracts). My sense is that we would probably match this length/amount (and our board would be split on it).

[vincecarter4pres]

Idk.

Just spitballing a perspective fictional scenario where Dinwiddie/Carroll/Knix or Indiana 2nd/small TPE gets it done, can all 3 parties agree on a frontloaded deal where he gets say, 4/68? Or maybe something a little lower but with big bonus incentives, such as games played?

I'd do 4 for 56 with a team option in year 3, player option in year 4.

FWIW you can only do one option and one option year (except for FRP rookie scale contracts). My sense is that we would probably match this length/amount (and our board would be split on it).

Yeah, I was gonna say you can't stack option years, I learned that one on this board a year or two back. I'd imagine Milwaukee matches on at least 4/80 and under.

[vincecarter4pres]

This is why I say I would offer Russell a smaller deal like what Steph Curry got for his first contract extension and let Russell earn his way up to big time money. You can't balk at paying Russell (which is certainly fine to do so) and then advocate signing Jabari Parker when he clearly has some issues going on here.

i dont see how we can sign parker. we have like 13M in cap. but if we can, then we are over the cap and may as well pay everyone at that point

I believe we have about $15.5, maybe that's minus Joe Harris' caphold.

Take it with a grain of salt, but NI mentioned recently that not only have there been talks that Orlando will not match anything 4/80 or above on Gordon, but the Nets could possibly buyout Mozgov for $10 million per so he can go sign a big contract back in Europe and start for a Euro contender. That would clear $6 mill right there.

As for re-signing everyone if we somehow signed Parker or Gordon, this could be where we see RHJ and Widdie traded on draft night as a prequel.