kidd will get fired (power struggle in Nets front office)

DBoys · Post #521 » by **DBoys** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:01 am

Rich Rane wrote:You're right. What about Glen Grunwald or that guy from the Clippers? Personnel can be re-assigned. Where does it say a head coach can't?

It would depend on the wording in the contract, which is not a public document.

Temuhjan · Post #522 » by **Temuhjan** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:05 am

It is a very simple story to begin with. Don't make it overly complicated:

Q. I am a recent grad with 1 year under my belt. I think I did well in my job. I think I deserve a promotion and a raise at work. So, what do I do?

A. I walk straight into the boss' office. I sit down and talk to him. He says no. I then threaten him, "if you do not do it, I will go work for the company next door." Boss says, "suit yourself." I walk out of the boss' office disappointed and lack of options. I decide to honor my contract and carry on. Period.

Obiously, this happens in America a million times every year. It could all be handled in a low profile manner. The fuss happens when your supervisor overheard your conversation with the boss and he wants you out because he sees you as a threat. So what does he do? He starts spreading rumors about you and hopefully that will get rid of you.

Billy King, I know you are listening. Don't pretend you do not know what's going on.

the_process · Post #523 » by **the_process** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:43 am

kerry kittles wrote:Sanders has had 1 good season.
-He broke his hand in a bar fight.
-Was suspended 5 games for violating the anti-drug policy
-Had runs in with the law
-Was garbage when he played this past season
-Now in rehab
-Had a confrontation with Gary Neal who said Sanders wasn't earning his money (locker room cancer)

$34 million would be tied up between DWill and Sanders. Would KD want to come play with them? I highly doubt that. And no they wouldn't have room for much more after that. Add in $20 million for KD you're at $54, plus Plumlee's $2 million and cap holds your at $60 so we'd have $9 million to offer, not getting anyone great with $9 million,

I don't know if this has already been addressed (due the nature and length of this thread I haven't read through it all yet) but it was Neal who told Sanders he wasn't earning his money so Neal became the cancer and that's why the Bucks dumped him on Charlotte. So that's not a negative on Sanders. Also, this is the GOAT thread on RealGM. OP, you're the man; and mods, excellent discretion leaving it open!

Also, let me address compensation. If I'm the Nets, I stand firm on wanting a first, even if it's lotto protected. Bucks fans can talk all they want about how this will hurt the Nets, but your new ownership group basically just told your GM and coach to get the f*** out. Depending on your opinions of Hammond and Drew that may be a good thing, but clearly that is going to be way more disruptive to your organization than it is the Nets'. It behooves MIL to get this done fast and transition to the new regime. Nets can reassign Kidd to be a special consultant to the board and pay him to watch soap operas at home and just hire another head coach. I imagine Kidd then goes Lasry and Edens and begs to be traded for, which they will do as they are tight.

LongLiveHinkie · Post #524 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:52 am

I'm not a Nets fan, so I'm just an outsider, but I don't get the reports of the Nets breaking down talks if they don't get a 1st. Didn't the Nets lose all leverage in this? I mean, it seems obvious Kidd burned every bridge and then some. So if the Bucks balk, what are the Nets going to do? They aren't going to keep them, are they?

Isn't this just a matter of not if, but when the Nets accept the Bucks' offer of a 2nd round pick?

Paradise · Post #525 » by **Paradise** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:41 am

Westbrook36 wrote:I'm not a Nets fan, so I'm just an outsider, but I don't get the reports of the Nets breaking down talks if they don't get a 1st. Didn't the Nets lose all leverage in this? I mean, it seems obvious Kidd burned every bridge and then some. So if the Bucks balk, what are the Nets going to do? They aren't going to keep them, are they?

Isn't this just a matter of not if, but when the Nets accept the Bucks' offer of a 2nd round pick?

We could keep him and simply demote him to a role within the organization until the Bucks pay up. The Nets obviously want him gone but they don't have to fire him.

AngryPistonsGuy · Post #526 » by **AngryPistonsGuy** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:43 am

I'm just an outsider as well who came to view this soon to be legendary thread, and I am curious as well why the Nets don't just take the 2nd rounder. It's sure to be a high one, and a high second rounder is extremely valuable. There is no way the Bucks would be silly enough to give up a first rounder, especially when there is almost no doubt that it will be a strong lottery pick. Jason Kidd isn't Popovich. I'm not a fan of the guy, outside of his player career, and I'm not gonna pretend he's the worst coach ever, but be realistic. I feel like the Nets should be lucky to get that high second rounder for him, and I think it's dumb for Milwaukee to even offer that much.

Just like, yesterday I was reading an article with Jabari Parker talking about how comfortable he felt with Larry Drew and this and that. I don't know, just seems silly to me. Like Milwaukee's new ownership is trying too hard to make a splash or something.

I hope I don't come off as rude or like I'm hating. I honestly am just a curious observer, and don't understand the hype. I was stoked for the Bucks next year, and now I am a bit worried if this is how ownership acts. And since Kidd will surely be gone next year, I'm a bit hype for Brooklyn if they get someone like George Karl in there and keep the core intact.

Paradise · Post #527 » by **Paradise** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:54 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483511833748197377[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483510382200229889[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483511509792735232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483512670927081472[/tweet]

GBBucks · Post #528 » by **GBBucks** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:57 am

Paradise wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:I'm not a Nets fan, so I'm just an outsider, but I don't get the reports of the Nets breaking down talks if they don't get a 1st. Didn't the Nets lose all leverage in this? I mean, it seems obvious Kidd burned every bridge and then some. So if the Bucks balk, what are the Nets going to do? They aren't going to keep them, are they?

Isn't this just a matter of not if, but when the Nets accept the Bucks' offer of a 2nd round pick?

We could keep him and simply demote him to a role within the organization until the Bucks pay up. The Nets obviously want him gone but they don't have to fire him.

That is 100% conjecture. How do you know that there isn't a provision in his contract that states if he is moved to any role other than HC that his contract is void? It's not like he just signed a contract that said "We'd like to pay you $10mil over 4 years. Sign on the dotted line."

These are professionals making these contracts. The Nets have absolutely no leverage. Sure, the bucks owners would like to have Kidd apparently, but there are other coaching options out there. Meanwhile, the Nets only have 2 other real options. Keep Kidd as HC (yeah...obviously that's not happening), or fire him. I don't think people are grasping the kind of stain demoting him to towel boy would do to prospective coaches and players would have on the team.

therealbig3 · Post #529 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:06 am

GBBucks wrote:
Paradise wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:I'm not a Nets fan, so I'm just an outsider, but I don't get the reports of the Nets breaking down talks if they don't get a 1st. Didn't the Nets lose all leverage in this? I mean, it seems obvious Kidd burned every bridge and then some. So if the Bucks balk, what are the Nets going to do? They aren't going to keep them, are they?

Isn't this just a matter of not if, but when the Nets accept the Bucks' offer of a 2nd round pick?

We could keep him and simply demote him to a role within the organization until the Bucks pay up. The Nets obviously want him gone but they don't have to fire him.

That is 100% conjecture. How do you know that there isn't a provision in his contract that states if he is moved to any role other than HC that his contract is void? It's not like he just signed a contract that said "We'd like to pay you $10mil over 4 years. Sign on the dotted line."

These are professionals making these contracts. The Nets have absolutely no leverage. Sure, the bucks owners would like to have Kidd apparently, but there are other coaching options out there. Meanwhile, the Nets only have 2 other real options. Keep Kidd as HC (yeah...obviously that's not happening), or fire him. I don't think people are grasping the kind of stain demoting him to towel boy would do to prospective coaches and players would have on the team.

Stain? He's the one that blew up on ownership and wanted out when he didn't get what he wanted...if he got demoted, there's no negative press around the franchise, because he deserves it. Reporters have mentioned how bad Kidd looks in all of this to the rest of the league already...just check Sam Amick's or Adrian Wojnarowski's tweets.

If Kidd actually does feel the way it's reported he felt (that King sucks and that the franchise doesn't seem to have much direction), I actually AGREE with him, and I would absolutely take him over King as GM, or at least, I would have accepted his demands and given him a position over King and basically put Kidd in charge of personnel decisions. I think he has a good eye for this kind of stuff, and he has a system in place, and he knows the types of players he wants for that system. I'd trust him with that role.

But after not getting that (which is understandable, because he's a 1st year head coach who had a really up and down, and overall underachieving, season...it's not like he shocked everyone in his debut year...he ranged from terrible to good, and there were always questions marks about his coaching throughout, even on his best days), blowing up on ownership and wanting a different job (which isn't even available) is pretty classless and douchey.

Paradise · Post #530 » by **Paradise** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:11 am

GBBucks wrote:
Paradise wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:I'm not a Nets fan, so I'm just an outsider, but I don't get the reports of the Nets breaking down talks if they don't get a 1st. Didn't the Nets lose all leverage in this? I mean, it seems obvious Kidd burned every bridge and then some. So if the Bucks balk, what are the Nets going to do? They aren't going to keep them, are they?

Isn't this just a matter of not if, but when the Nets accept the Bucks' offer of a 2nd round pick?

We could keep him and simply demote him to a role within the organization until the Bucks pay up. The Nets obviously want him gone but they don't have to fire him.

That is 100% conjecture. How do you know that there isn't a provision in his contract that states if he is moved to any role other than HC that his contract is void? It's not like he just signed a contract that said "We'd like to pay you $10mil over 4 years. Sign on the dotted line."

If it's being reported the Nets have authority to do such a thing then I don't think there is any special provisions in his contract. Just like he demoted Frank, It can be done again. That's obviously a last resort, though.

These are professionals making these contracts. The Nets have absolutely no leverage. Sure, the bucks owners would like to have Kidd apparently, but there are other coaching options out there. Meanwhile, the Nets only have 2 other real options. Keep Kidd as HC (yeah...obviously that's not happening), or fire him. I don't think people are grasping the kind of stain demoting him to towel boy would do to prospective coaches and players would have on the team.

Lawrence Frank was the associate head coach and got demoted to paper work by Kidd's authority. The Nets didn't suffer from it. Obviously, it's a distraction but it wouldn't be big enough to make it a circus compared to the damage that it will cause Larry Drew, Hammond and the assistant GM.

I don't mind accepting 2nd rounders but one 2nd round pick is not enough. Two or three 2nd round picks should get it done eventually.

GBBucks · Post #531 » by **GBBucks** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:30 am

Paradise wrote:
GBBucks wrote:
Paradise wrote:
We could keep him and simply demote him to a role within the organization until the Bucks pay up. The Nets obviously want him gone but they don't have to fire him.

That is 100% conjecture. How do you know that there isn't a provision in his contract that states if he is moved to any role other than HC that his contract is void? It's not like he just signed a contract that said "We'd like to pay you $10mil over 4 years. Sign on the dotted line."

If it's being reported the Nets have authority to do such a thing then I don't think there is any special provisions in his contract. Just like he demoted Frank, It can be done again. That's obviously a last resort, though.

These are professionals making these contracts. The Nets have absolutely no leverage. Sure, the bucks owners would like to have Kidd apparently, but there are other coaching options out there. Meanwhile, the Nets only have 2 other real options. Keep Kidd as HC (yeah...obviously that's not happening), or fire him. I don't think people are grasping the kind of stain demoting him to towel boy would do to prospective coaches and players would have on the team.

Lawrence Frank was the associate head coach and got demoted to paper work by Kidd's authority. The Nets didn't suffer from it. Obviously, it's a distraction but it wouldn't be big enough to make it a circus compared to the damage that it will cause Larry Drew, Hammond and the assistant GM.

I don't mind accepting 2nd rounders but one 2nd round pick is not enough. Two or three 2nd round picks should get it done eventually.

lol, two or three. Delusional Thoughts from fantasy island.

Larry Drew is already on the way out. Bucks fans have wanted this for some time and it's been a long time coming. Like has been stated, new ownership and a squad that won 15 games doesn't give someone much security. I'm not saying that I like the way the bucks have handled this, I think they should have just outright fired him when ownership changed, but that's neither here, nor there.

I think it's so funny that people assume Larry Sanders is a negative asset and won't command anything in a trade, yet they believe Jason Kidd commands upwards of 3 second round draft picks when he's in a way worse situation with his team.

MrDollarBills · Post #532 » by **MrDollarBills** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:36 am

wichmae wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:
Miami in 1995 settled in giving $1,000,000 and a 1st round pick to the Knicks for tampering with Pat Riley. Again, Bucks forfeiting a 1st round pick would not be unprecedented.

The better example is literally what just happened a few weeks ago with Derek Fisher and Phil. What happened in 1995 is almost entirely irrelevant. Phil was fined 25K for tampering to hire Derek Fisher as HC. No pick forfeiture was awarded. This would be virtually impossible to prove and if even come close to a resolve would most likely land a fine.

You really want to compare Fisher's situation to this?

MrDollarBills · Post #533 » by **MrDollarBills** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:41 am

GBBucks wrote:These are professionals making these contracts. The Nets have absolutely no leverage. Sure, the bucks owners would like to have Kidd apparently, but there are other coaching options out there. Meanwhile, the Nets only have 2 other real options. Keep Kidd as HC (yeah...obviously that's not happening), or fire him. I don't think people are grasping the kind of stain demoting him to towel boy would do to prospective coaches and players would have on the team.

You seem to not understand that Kidd is now viewed as a piece of **** by everyone not named you. If the Nets choose not to let him out of his contract no one would feel sorry for him

Post #534 » by **Howard Mass** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:55 am

I'd like to thank Carl for choosing to post this here.

Many players, executives and people around the league view our forums and it is nice when a story breaks here first.

I want to welcome Carl2680 to our forums and thank him for sharing this news here first on our forums.

On another note, please read my new Forums Column Mass Dispatch which will debut tonight at midnight EST.

I will have more thoughts on this thread there.

Once again, a big thank you to Carl2680.

GBBucks · Post #535 » by **GBBucks** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:12 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
GBBucks wrote:
You seem to not understand that Kidd is now viewed as a piece of **** by everyone not named you. If the Nets choose not to let him out of his contract no one would feel sorry for him

I've actually never even stated my opinion of him. To be honest, I don't even want to give up a single 2nd round pick for him. There are plenty of other coaches out there that I'd rather have developing Giannis, Parker, etc than Kidd and it wouldn't cost us anything other than money.

I think his power move is crap. He was well aware that Billy King was the GM when he signed on to be the coach. But I can also understand his frustration with the team not apparently being of the same mind when it comes to rebuilding.

Post #536 » by **NyCeEvO** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:19 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483511509792735232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483511833748197377[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483512670927081472[/tweet]

Ayt · Post #537 » by **Ayt** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:32 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483511509792735232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483512670927081472[/tweet]

Was he equally indignant when this has happened in the past like, say, last offseason with the same coach?

SpeedyG · Post #538 » by **SpeedyG** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:33 pm

RRyder823 wrote:Considering that every sign of tampering that has been throwing out here are nothing more then conspiracy theories at this point and nothing more unless some new information not previously known comes to light you should take the 2nd round pick n run. I'm not a big fan of the idea of bringing Kidd to the Bucks but if the Nets think they're going to get a 1st from all this then they're only fooling themselves.

Not only are there recent examples of tampering not ending with draft picks being taken away

It's a little bit of a different scenario. The most recent example is tampering with a player to be hired as a coach. That's different than what is happening here.

This is a Head Coach being tampered with to be hired for another Head coaching position. If anything, we've seen that Silver can be heavy-handed with the punishment (providing there's proof). If there's any kind of proof out there (which I agree is difficult to produce), then I expect Silver to come down hard.

He's still very much in a "prove it" phase, and would not want to look weak. He would not want to set a precedent of fining teams "chump change" for tampering with other teams' coaches...or players.

SpeedyG · Post #539 » by **SpeedyG** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:37 pm

Ayt wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483511509792735232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/483512670927081472[/tweet]

Was he equally indignant when this has happened in the past like, say, last offseason with the same coach?

Who was this?

airyak13 · Post #540 » by **airyak13** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:40 pm

Zachbretton wrote:I just have a feeling that this guy knew this story was going out, which I still think is bull.

That's why he got it so close, he knew the story going out itself

The whole premise of the OP was that he had inside sources that enabled him to know the story that was going out. It's not like he came on here acting like he had a premonition.