A Tech Guy with a Jumper - Spencer Dinwiddie Thread

[Prokorov]

Props to Dinwiddie... i know it was sacrilege for me to even imply that dinwiddie could possibly come close to providing the production we were getting from levert but since levert went down spencer has been pretty good

18.8 points
7 assists
2.4 rebounds
1.0 steals
42.3% fg
33.2% from three

also getting to the FT line nearly 7 times a game

[Claud]

Props to Dinwiddie... i know it was sacrilege for me to even imply that dinwiddie could possibly come close to providing the production we were getting from levert but since levert went down spencer has been pretty good

18.8 points
7 assists
2.4 rebounds
1.0 steals
42.3% fg
33.2% from three

also getting to the FT line nearly 7 times a game

He's been more consistent than in previous seasons. Good to see.

He and Caris are our only ball handlers that can get by anybody and create or score.

Someone with his skills at 6'6 needs to shoot better than 42% from the floor and 33% isn't great either from 3.

Defensively is where the next step in his game is.. he is very inconsistent in that department. He needs to play harder both ways.

[Prokorov]

Props to Dinwiddie... i know it was sacrilege for me to even imply that dinwiddie could possibly come close to providing the production we were getting from levert but since levert went down spencer has been pretty good

18.8 points
7 assists
2.4 rebounds
1.0 steals
42.3% fg
33.2% from three

also getting to the FT line nearly 7 times a game

He's been more consistent than in previous seasons. Good to see.

He and Caris are our only ball handlers that can get by anybody and create or score.

Someone with his skills at 6'6 needs to shoot better than 42% from the floor and 33% isn't great either from 3.

Defensively is where the next step in his game is.. he is very inconsistent in that department. He needs to play harder both ways.

42/33 are solid when you are getting to the FT line 7 times a game. his TS% in that span is over 61%.

after last night he is now averaging (Since levert went down:

19.7 points
6.7 assists
1.0 steals

45.1% FG
35.8% 3PT
82.6% FT

6.57 FTA per game

overall on the year he is at 16/5/3 on 47/38/80 with a 60.4 TS% and 5 FTA (all in under 28 mpg)

Levert is having an outstanding year but spencer needs his props as well... he has been as good or arguably better (less points but more assists on better shooting/efficieny with less turnovers)

[SpeedyG]

I think Spencer right now is perfect in a super sub role. I think he certainly has the ability to be a starter but the ball does have tendency to stick with him, and while that's something I don't mind as much for a 6th man, it's not something I'd want on a starting guard who I would want to facilitate ball movement while still being aggressive


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[Paradise]

Watch on YouTube

[MrDollarBills]

Spencer has been efficient AF. Good stuff.

[Prokorov]

I think Spencer right now is perfect in a super sub role. I think he certainly has the ability to be a starter but the ball does have tendency to stick with him, and while that's something I don't mind as much for a 6th man, it's not something I'd want on a starting guard who I would want to facilitate ball movement while still being aggressive


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this is a complete misconception/myth i keep seeing on here:

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

2) Dinwiddie (23.2) has a lower usage rate then russell (29.4) and Levert (26.6). So Diniwiddie is getting the ball/actively handling the ball less then our other 2 lead gaurds.

3) Dinwiddie has less of his offense come from isolation (17%) then both Levert (19.3%) and Napier (29.5%). Only Russell (11.9%) has less of his offense come in isolation among our ball handlers.

Spencer is also maybe our best player at getting to the rim and he has been our best scorer this season (small sample aside). you want the ball in his hands. outside of a russell/allen pick and roll its our best offense.

[gigantes]

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

Is there a stat / measurement for hockey assists and passing that doesn't directly lead to an assist?

Because I get the sense that's part of the critique some have about Dins. The idea that, assists or not, he doesn't run an offense quite as well as DLo or some other guards. I guess it would be some kind of advanced stat stuff. *shrug*

[Prokorov]

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

Is there a stat / measurement for hockey assists and passing that doesn't directly lead to an assist?

Because I get the sense that's part of the critique some have about Dins. The idea that, assists or not, he doesn't run an offense quite as well as DLo or some other guards. I guess it would be some kind of advanced stat stuff. *shrug*

thats what im getting at... people are claiming this but its 100% false. if there is someone who doesnt run the offense and is more just iso centric/high usage with low assists it would be Napier or to a lesser extend levert. Dinwiddie is getting most of his in the flow of the offense, getting more assists at a higher rate and not super iso heavy

[gigantes]

I mean, it sounds like there's a smidgen of stats to support your POV, but overall it still seems to come down to the eyeball test for you and everyone else.

I thought there might be additional stats to support the case, like I mentioned above.

[MrDollarBills]

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

Is there a stat / measurement for hockey assists and passing that doesn't directly lead to an assist?

Because I get the sense that's part of the critique some have about Dins. The idea that, assists or not, he doesn't run an offense quite as well as DLo or some other guards. I guess it would be some kind of advanced stat stuff. *shrug*

thats what im getting at... people are claiming this but its 100% false. if there is someone who doesnt run the offense and is more just iso centric/high usage with low assists it would be Napier or to a lesser extend levert. Dinwiddie is getting most of his in the flow of the offense, getting more assists at a higher rate and not super iso heavy

I'm curious to see what his usage and ISO numbers are post LeVert injury. I think that you have to factor how things changed after that.

[TheNetsFan]

I think Spencer right now is perfect in a super sub role. I think he certainly has the ability to be a starter but the ball does have tendency to stick with him, and while that's something I don't mind as much for a 6th man, it's not something I'd want on a starting guard who I would want to facilitate ball movement while still being aggressive


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this is a complete misconception/myth i keep seeing on here:

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

2) Dinwiddie (23.2) has a lower usage rate then russell (29.4) and Levert (26.6). So Diniwiddie is getting the ball/actively handling the ball less then our other 2 lead gaurds.

3) Dinwiddie has less of his offense come from isolation (17%) then both Levert (19.3%) and Napier (29.5%). Only Russell (11.9%) has less of his offense come in isolation among our ball handlers.

Spencer is also maybe our best player at getting to the rim and he has been our best scorer this season (small sample aside). you want the ball in his hands. outside of a russell/allen pick and roll its our best offense.

I don't interpret those numbers the same way you do.

Let's start with #2 first. Usage rate has nothing to do with assists or time a player holds on to the ball. It's just a ratio that accounts for player/team FGAs, FTAs & TOVs with minutes played weightings. Pounding the rock & slowing down the pace would decrease one's usage rate. That's what people are accusing Dinwiddie of from time to time, especially when he's going full hero-ball.

Similarly, assist % is a ratio of player assists to team FGs while he's on the court. It has nothing to do with ball movement. If you pound the rock for 20 seconds & make one pass, you'd have a higher assist % than if 5 players are swinging the ball around.

[SpeedyG]

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

Is there a stat / measurement for hockey assists and passing that doesn't directly lead to an assist?

Because I get the sense that's part of the critique some have about Dins. The idea that, assists or not, he doesn't run an offense quite as well as DLo or some other guards. I guess it would be some kind of advanced stat stuff. *shrug*

I would actually argue that Spencer is good at hockey assists. He's very patient with the ball, which is why the ball sticks to him and doesn't facilitate movement at times. But it's not unusual for him to wait until less than 10 seconds on the clock as the defense makes a mistake and makes a pass (or a hockey assist) that leads to a score

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[SpeedyG]

I think Spencer right now is perfect in a super sub role. I think he certainly has the ability to be a starter but the ball does have tendency to stick with him, and while that's something I don't mind as much for a 6th man, it's not something I'd want on a starting guard who I would want to facilitate ball movement while still being aggressive


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this is a complete misconception/myth i keep seeing on here:

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

2) Dinwiddie (23.2) has a lower usage rate then russell (29.4) and Levert (26.6). So Diniwiddie is getting the ball/actively handling the ball less then our other 2 lead gaurds.

3) Dinwiddie has less of his offense come from isolation (17%) then both Levert (19.3%) and Napier (29.5%). Only Russell (11.9%) has less of his offense come in isolation among our ball handlers.

Spencer is also maybe our best player at getting to the rim and he has been our best scorer this season (small sample aside). you want the ball in his hands. outside of a russell/allen pick and roll its our best offense.

See my response to gigantes. The ball DOES stick in Spencer's hands a lot because he's very patient running an offense.

Dlo and Caris would bring up the ball, call the set, give up the ball, and get the ball back when it bogs down.

Spencer would bring up the ball, call the play, watch it develop, doesn't like what he sees, keeps it, then it's 12 seconds so he gives it to someone else and immediately to get it back with a reset dribble.

That's what I'm talking about with him.

And while that is perfectly fine as a super sub and a closer, I would want my lead guard to facilitate the offense more and get that ball moving.

I'll also disagree that he's better than Caris at getting to the rim; and it's because of mindset.

Yes his first step is probably more explosive than Caris.

But he also settles more. Since Caris has been out I think he's done a better job of being more aggressive (probably realizing that we've lost that facet of our game without Caris). So perhaps this is changing for the better.

Secondly, Spence avoids contact at the rim. He's always looking to finish, even if that means doing some layup where he is doing some high arching shot. Then he complains for 10 seconds why he didn't get the foul (more annoying when it's constant).

I see similar (though not the same players) comparison between RJ/VC here.

VC might be more explosive and can do more things to finish, but he's also more prone to trying to avoid contact while trying to make an acrobatic finish...and missing and not getting the call.

RJ is also no slouch athletically, but he goes through defenders and gets contact and gets to the line. He also had a more aggressive mindset to attack.

Those are why I consider Caris our better penetrator. Sure Spencer has that ability, which makes it even more frustrating when he's passive as he sometimes can be and settles for contested tough threes (watch the first Minny game: 1st half is textbook passive Spencer, 2nd half is him going SSJ Vegeta) .

If he shows consistently the aggressiveness that Caris had early on, I'll give him the nod. But as it is, I still give that to Caris.

Both of these traits, again is why I prefer him as a super sub right now.

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[SpeedyG]

I think Spencer right now is perfect in a super sub role. I think he certainly has the ability to be a starter but the ball does have tendency to stick with him, and while that's something I don't mind as much for a 6th man, it's not something I'd want on a starting guard who I would want to facilitate ball movement while still being aggressive


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this is a complete misconception/myth i keep seeing on here:

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

2) Dinwiddie (23.2) has a lower usage rate then russell (29.4) and Levert (26.6). So Diniwiddie is getting the ball/actively handling the ball less then our other 2 lead gaurds.

3) Dinwiddie has less of his offense come from isolation (17%) then both Levert (19.3%) and Napier (29.5%). Only Russell (11.9%) has less of his offense come in isolation among our ball handlers.

Spencer is also maybe our best player at getting to the rim and he has been our best scorer this season (small sample aside). you want the ball in his hands. outside of a russell/allen pick and roll its our best offense.

I don't interpret those numbers the same way you do.

Let's start with #2 first. Usage rate has nothing to do with assists or time a player holds on to the ball. It's just a ratio that accounts for player/team FGAs, FTAs & TOVs with minutes played weightings. Pounding the rock & slowing down the pace would decrease one's usage rate. That's what people are accusing Dinwiddie of from time to time, especially when he's going full hero-ball.

Similarly, assist % is a ratio of player assists to team FGs while he's on the court. It has nothing to do with ball movement. If you pound the rock for 20 seconds & make one pass, you'd have a higher assist % than if 5 players are swinging the ball around.

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert in analytics and how they come up with the stats. But if that's the definition of usage rate and ast %, then it further supports the eye test for Spencer.

Lesson here: Dont look at Stats and use it to interpret the game. Watch the game and then use the stats to validate what you see.



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[MrDollarBills]

Also, lets be real Spencer has gotten himself into some hero ball situations. I think he's calmed down a bit over the last two games or so but he gets tunnel vision at times. Stats aren't going to prove that but the eye ball test definitely does. It wasn't but a few nights ago we were on here pissed at him for him trying to win a game by himself and failing miserably. He gets away with stuff that would get D'Angelo benched.

[TheNetsFan]

Usage Rate Formula=100*[(Team Minutes)/(5*(Player Minutes))]*[(Field Goal Attempts)+0.44*(Free Throw Attempts)+(Turnovers)/[(Team Field Goal Attempts)+0.44*(Team Free Throw Attempts)+Team Turnovers)]

Assist Percentage=100*Assists/(((Minutes Played /(Team Minutes/5)) * Team Field Goals Made) – Field Goals Made)

[MGrand15]

Dinwiddie averages the most dribbles per touch on the team. The most time per touch on the team. Easily backs up what everyone that doesn't hate LeVert sees.

[MGrand15]

this is a complete misconception/myth i keep seeing on here:

1) Dinwiddie has a higher Assist percentage then Russell, Levert, and Napier. He averages more assists then Levert and Napier and more assists per36 then russell. So he is assisting/creating more offense then any gaurd on our team.

2) Dinwiddie (23.2) has a lower usage rate then russell (29.4) and Levert (26.6). So Diniwiddie is getting the ball/actively handling the ball less then our other 2 lead gaurds.

3) Dinwiddie has less of his offense come from isolation (17%) then both Levert (19.3%) and Napier (29.5%). Only Russell (11.9%) has less of his offense come in isolation among our ball handlers.

Spencer is also maybe our best player at getting to the rim and he has been our best scorer this season (small sample aside). you want the ball in his hands. outside of a russell/allen pick and roll its our best offense.

I don't interpret those numbers the same way you do.

Let's start with #2 first. Usage rate has nothing to do with assists or time a player holds on to the ball. It's just a ratio that accounts for player/team FGAs, FTAs & TOVs with minutes played weightings. Pounding the rock & slowing down the pace would decrease one's usage rate. That's what people are accusing Dinwiddie of from time to time, especially when he's going full hero-ball.

Similarly, assist % is a ratio of player assists to team FGs while he's on the court. It has nothing to do with ball movement. If you pound the rock for 20 seconds & make one pass, you'd have a higher assist % than if 5 players are swinging the ball around.

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert in analytics and how they come up with the stats. But if that's the definition of usage rate and ast %, then it further supports the eye test for Spencer.

Lesson here: Dont look at Stats and use it to interpret the game. Watch the game and then use the stats to validate what you see.



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No the lesson here is to understand the stats you're using.

[SpeedyG]

I don't interpret those numbers the same way you do.

Let's start with #2 first. Usage rate has nothing to do with assists or time a player holds on to the ball. It's just a ratio that accounts for player/team FGAs, FTAs & TOVs with minutes played weightings. Pounding the rock & slowing down the pace would decrease one's usage rate. That's what people are accusing Dinwiddie of from time to time, especially when he's going full hero-ball.

Similarly, assist % is a ratio of player assists to team FGs while he's on the court. It has nothing to do with ball movement. If you pound the rock for 20 seconds & make one pass, you'd have a higher assist % than if 5 players are swinging the ball around.

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert in analytics and how they come up with the stats. But if that's the definition of usage rate and ast %, then it further supports the eye test for Spencer.

Lesson here: Dont look at Stats and use it to interpret the game. Watch the game and then use the stats to validate what you see.



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No the lesson here is to understand the stats you're using.

That too

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