Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
vincecarter4pres wrote:You have to get back multiple lightly protected 1st's and maybe an additional prospect to take on Ryan Anderson, that contract is vomit inducing. Also, Houston already traded a 1st to LAC to get CP3, if it were their own, we're getting into 1st's, way down the line.
Ror1997 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:Ror1997 wrote:
If its not an "official report" then it is purely speculation. The exact same speculation KCP and the nets got after detroit renounced his rights.
KCP has been linked to the Nets in the exact same way OPJ was. The same way Carroll was. The same way the DLo trade was.
There was reported interest in the player/type of transaction and nothing else. No reported FA meetings. No reported negotiations. Nothing. Just speculation based on purely on fit/agenda. Show me one tweet from a trusted source that even said the nets opened contract negotiations with Porter.
You literally said the buzz was coming from unofficial reports. That means the buzz was coming from nowhere.
What are you talking about?
You understand the difference between speculation and reporting right?
There is usually speculation on a contract or trade when it happens. It usually doesn't happen out of the blue.
The Otto Porter contract was being talked every day of the week before it actually happened.
I haven't heard anyone saying anything about KCP being offered anything except the Lakers contract since his rights were renounced.
You mean we talked about it here, or it was being reported around the league? Because there's 2 different things. There were NO reports about the Nets and Porter except that we had interest. You can't just pretend something happened a different way then it did to fit your agenda. We talked about it here everyday, but that doesn't mean **** about the nets negotiations with Porter.
"You didn't hear one thing about KCP being offered a contract"
Show me the report that says the nets offered OPJ a contract? Really, show me. Besides Shams tweeting they agreed to the contract there were no reports of negotiations.
They were linked to him. Just like they're linked to KCP. That's it.
"There's a difference between speculation and reporting"
Do you know that difference?
spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
Hmmmmm. Seems like you just proved my point. Thanks.
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Ror1997 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:
What are you talking about?
You understand the difference between speculation and reporting right?
There is usually speculation on a contract or trade when it happens. It usually doesn't happen out of the blue.
The Otto Porter contract was being talked every day of the week before it actually happened.
I haven't heard anyone saying anything about KCP being offered anything except the Lakers contract since his rights were renounced.
You mean we talked about it here, or it was being reported around the league? Because there's 2 different things. There were NO reports about the Nets and Porter except that we had interest. You can't just pretend something happened a different way then it did to fit your agenda. We talked about it here everyday, but that doesn't mean **** about the nets negotiations with Porter.
"You didn't hear one thing about KCP being offered a contract"
Show me the report that says the nets offered OPJ a contract? Really, show me. Besides Shams tweeting they agreed to the contract there were no reports of negotiations.
They were linked to him. Just like they're linked to KCP. That's it.
"There's a difference between speculation and reporting"
Do you know that difference?
spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
Hmmmmm. Seems like you just proved my point. Thanks.
Are you really trying to argue with me about the definition of speculation?
This is honestly the dumbest argument I have ever had on RealGM. I don't even know why you are trying to have it.
All I said was that I don't think KCP is getting interest because there is no news about it.
Literally done with this stupid convo lol. I'll let you have the last word.
Vae Victus wrote:So...
BRK out - Booker, Nicholson
in - Ryno + HOU 1st + 2nd + Zhou Qi
HOU out - Ryno + HOU 1st + 2nd + Zhou Qi (prolly need to throw more out to NYK, man Ryno's deal is ugly as ****)
in - Melo
NYK out - Melo
in - Booker, Nicholson (they get lots of capspace and end the Melodrama, force HOU to give up another asset)
Leaves BRK with about 14mil cap maybe another 1-2 if they waive Goodwin/Acy. Regardless offer KCP 3 years 45, mil 3rd Team option >:D
Personally i'd start DLo off the bench and try to get Carroll more run early to get him into rhythm faster to trade him off for value. Also need Lin in there to run PnR with Mozgov and PnP with Ryno. Lin is the best PnR guard on the team and those bigs need a quick guard to maximize em. If DLo develops well in the time he gets backup PG mins look to move Lin for best value, main reason why Lin needs to start.
To start the season
C - Mozgov, Allen, Acy, Zhou Qi (DLeague)
PF- Ryno, RHJ, Carroll
SF- Carroll, Levert, Harris
SG- KCP, DLo, SKil
PG- Lin, Dim, Whtiehead
2018 have TOR 1st, LAL/ORL 2nd, HOU 2nd
future HOU 1st (they gotta pay back LAC for CP3 first)
Ideal developing by mid season with Carroll rehabilitating his value and Lin balling out, trade em for max value. Can pocket a coupla more 1sts. KCP developing into the player everyone thinks he can be, otherwise keep Lin and bench KCP for DLo. However it'll be a bit of a blow if KCP doesnt develop, but hey only 2 year deal as 3rd year is Team option >:D
C- Mozgov, Allen, Acy, Zhou Qi
PF- Ryno, RHJ, Acy
SF- Levert, Harris
SG- KCP, SKil, Whitehead
PG- DLo, Dim, Whitehead
2018 have TOR 1st, LAL/ORL 2nd, HOU 2nd, 2 more 1sts from Carroll/Lin trade
future HOU 1st
2018 FA now has Mozgov/Ryno with 2 years left on their deals. Ideally with Lin and hopefully a eventually developed DLo, with lots of PnR/PnP the bigs maximized their values. Trade one of em for pure cap using 1 or 2 1sts to clear em off. And i thikn that should leave 2 max slots. Basically u trade off the one u dont get a superstar FA at, so if u can sign Boogie u trade Mozzie for example. If superstars arent forth coming, punt and trawl for short term value bargains or more contract dump + asset deals that are expirings (gotta keep the dream of 2 max slots alive)
Team has **** of talented youth, KCP the most expensive is on a team friendly deal with a team option. 2 bleh contracts in Mozgov and Ryno, but if they play well enough, they wont be hard to move if u attach some of hte plethora of picks the team will have. Allen and Zhou Qi brought along slowly, the future Cs. Ryno provides elite stretch 4 spacing with RHJ providing the gritty defense and speed. SF is a bit thin but assume Levert is ready ful ltime to hold the spot down, surely one of the future 1sts will be drafting a SF. Backcourt is by this time way more developed (otherwise dont trade Lin), with only the reserves needing to be resigned or new ones drafted.
Naturally as a Lin fan i'd prefer Lin not get traded like some disposable trash and KCP not be signed cuz i dont think he's good enough to justify the large deal he's demanding. But if we're gonna go full on pipedream for Nets fans, this is basically the ideal best course of action for the team, hardly realistic but fun to banter about.
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
Ror1997 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:Ror1997 wrote:
You mean we talked about it here, or it was being reported around the league? Because there's 2 different things. There were NO reports about the Nets and Porter except that we had interest. You can't just pretend something happened a different way then it did to fit your agenda. We talked about it here everyday, but that doesn't mean **** about the nets negotiations with Porter.
"You didn't hear one thing about KCP being offered a contract"
Show me the report that says the nets offered OPJ a contract? Really, show me. Besides Shams tweeting they agreed to the contract there were no reports of negotiations.
They were linked to him. Just like they're linked to KCP. That's it.
"There's a difference between speculation and reporting"
Do you know that difference?
spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
Hmmmmm. Seems like you just proved my point. Thanks.
Are you really trying to argue with me about the definition of speculation?
This is honestly the dumbest argument I have ever had on RealGM. I don't even know why you are trying to have it.
All I said was that I don't think KCP is getting interest because there is no news about it.
Literally done with this stupid convo lol. I'll let you have the last word.
Breaking News: man can't defend his nonsense, gets mad
Anyway. All I did was correctly point out that the quietness on KCP is irrelevant because it was just as quiet on the OPJ/Nets front as it is the KCP/Nets front. You couldn't defend your KCP without making **** up about OPJ. And when I asked you to prove your argument you got mad and called the argument stupid.
It is stupid. Just admit you're wrong. Why make things stupid dude?
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Ror1997 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Are you really trying to argue with me about the definition of speculation?
This is honestly the dumbest argument I have ever had on RealGM. I don't even know why you are trying to have it.
All I said was that I don't think KCP is getting interest because there is no news about it.
Literally done with this stupid convo lol. I'll let you have the last word.
Breaking News: man can't defend his nonsense, gets mad
Anyway. All I did was correctly point out that the quietness on KCP is irrelevant because it was just as quiet on the OPJ/Nets front as it is the KCP/Nets front. You couldn't defend your KCP without making **** up about OPJ. And when I asked you to prove your argument you got mad and called the argument stupid.
It is stupid. Just admit you're wrong. Why make things stupid dude?
LMAO.
Ok "you win" bro.
Happy? Is that what gets you off?
Ror1997 wrote:I don't even think Zhou Qi is available to be traded. He signed a contract, and I'm like 90% sure that means he can't be traded until December 15th.
I don't think Hartenstien signed his contract so his rights could still be traded.
Regardless, I would rather just pass. Even with moving Booker + Nicholson I would prefer to not have a third 15M+ vet on the roster next year. Once you get to the point where half your salary is going to overpaid vets that's when you know you've gone too far
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
vincecarter4pres wrote:Ror1997 wrote:I don't even think Zhou Qi is available to be traded. He signed a contract, and I'm like 90% sure that means he can't be traded until December 15th.
I don't think Hartenstien signed his contract so his rights could still be traded.
Regardless, I would rather just pass. Even with moving Booker + Nicholson I would prefer to not have a third 15M+ vet on the roster next year. Once you get to the point where half your salary is going to overpaid vets that's when you know you've gone too far
Unless a big time asset is coming attached to that contract, but not a collection of low level blahness.
Like a lotto pick coming attached to said contract, or another Russell level prospect, yeah, it makes total sense. But a couple late 1st rounders and a C+ unknown prospect? Not so much. We need the whole 50 cent piece and the quarter, not 5 dimes, 2 nickels and 15 pennies.
Ryan Anderson's deal is basically on the level of Mozgov's. Sure he can physically play and can light it up from deep, but he's a huge negative on defense at a position where it's highly important and a mediocre rebounder, passer, etc. He's mainly a 1 trick pony. Can't finish, does nothing but pop J's, yuck.
Idk why you think that Bradley can't put the ball down on the floor. Not saying that he's some big creator/playmaker but he's not completely useless handling the ball. Besides, you can still have Levert at 3 who can handle the ball and create. Similarly, RHJ at the 4 can handle a bit too and create. Since the alternative in this case is KCP, its not like KCP is some great ball handler or playmaker either.NyCeEvO wrote:DarkXaero wrote:Bradley would play 2 where he always has. We could let Lin walk, move Russell to 1, and play Bradley at 2. Russell would be a tall PG at 6'5". Bradley is worth more than KCP, he's actually a two-way player, who has improved each season. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have a great season in Detroit.NyCeEvO wrote:As others have said, Bradley is 6'2". At that height, he needs to play the 1 unless he's paired with an allstar guard like IT or a much taller guard.
Since Kenny wants multiple ballhandlers in a lineup, I don't see him playing alongside JLin or DAR in the starting lineup. The max I'd be willing to give him is a 5yr/$80mil since I don't want to allocate that much money to a bench player.
I do believe Bradley is probably worth that much, if not more, but due to the makeup of our team, I don't think we can afford to give him more than that if we want to be able to have money for our other starters.
If Bradley starts we would no longer have multiple ballhandlers and more importantly, penetrators, in the lineup. This alongside shooting are the two skillsets that Kenny has preached about the most.
Lin and DAR actually penetrate and create for others. Bradley is a good shooter and would benefit from such penetration but he cannot do that himself.
Packers+NetsWIN wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:Ror1997 wrote:I don't even think Zhou Qi is available to be traded. He signed a contract, and I'm like 90% sure that means he can't be traded until December 15th.
I don't think Hartenstien signed his contract so his rights could still be traded.
Regardless, I would rather just pass. Even with moving Booker + Nicholson I would prefer to not have a third 15M+ vet on the roster next year. Once you get to the point where half your salary is going to overpaid vets that's when you know you've gone too far
Unless a big time asset is coming attached to that contract, but not a collection of low level blahness.
Like a lotto pick coming attached to said contract, or another Russell level prospect, yeah, it makes total sense. But a couple late 1st rounders and a C+ unknown prospect? Not so much. We need the whole 50 cent piece and the quarter, not 5 dimes, 2 nickels and 15 pennies.
Ryan Anderson's deal is basically on the level of Mozgov's. Sure he can physically play and can light it up from deep, but he's a huge negative on defense at a position where it's highly important and a mediocre rebounder, passer, etc. He's mainly a 1 trick pony. Can't finish, does nothing but pop J's, yuck.
Ryan Anderson would be a great fit for the style of offense this team players, but factoring in his age, poor defense, and contract I would definitely stay away if I were the Nets.
I would personally offer KCP a 3 year deal, for 51 million, with a player option in the third year. In this juncture of the offseason, I believe this is the smart play as the Nets need to take advantage of the fact that a young player who has shown flashes is available this late in free agency. I think this is a good offer considering that there are few teams that have both the money and playing time KCP is seeking (Nets, Lakers, Hawks, and maybe Sixers but highly doubt it). Nets offer him more security by making the contract multiple years instead of 1 like the Lakers (and possibly the Sixers) and the player option is a sweetner. The Net offer him a starting spot which the Sixers probably won't and offer a bigger market than both the Hawks and Sixers (if the money is the same from the hawks and sixers, believe this could be a factor).
If he accepts, he has a minimum of 2 years to prove himself as a high quality starter and if he does, he'll opt out.
If he opts out: He will hit the market at age 26. Nets get 2 good years from KCP and have the inside track to resign him if they choose to. Nets are not getting a player similar to KCP's combination of age and potential the rest of this offseason and most likely not next offseason (unless we take on another very lucky salary dump like Russell which I don't not see happening). So I think is a pragmatic move for those 2 years. And if they do not choose to pursue him, the timing would work out perfectly as the Nets own their pick in the same offseason he opts out and Carroll's contract comes off the books too.
If he opts in: It is most likely that his offensive game never improved or even slightly decreased from where it is now so he opts in just to ensure another payday. Carroll still comes off the books, Nets would still have their own pick, and KCP would be an expiring contract at 26/27 years old (someone would bite in a trade based on his defense).
PG: Lin, Dwindle, Whitehead
SG: Russell, Kilpatrick, Goodwin
SF: KCP, Levert, Harris
PF: RHJ, Booker, Acy
C: Mozgov, Allen, (1 year veteran or summer league guy)
And next off-season before Lin decides whether he opts-in or not, Nets management can make it very clear that if he stays on the team (either through opting in or opting-out and resigning), that he will be the 6th man. If he doesn't go for it, let him walk. But personally I would want him back as a auper 6th man.
A starting lineup (all 25 and younger) next year of Russell, Levert, KCP, RHJ, and Allen. Plus they will a first in the 20s and a high seconder rounder.
If KCP signs with another team, I would just throw a 1 year balloon contract at dedmon (10-12 million) or willie reed (like 6-7 million). Make sure it is a 1 year so it is an expiring deal.
imanshar wrote:Packers+NetsWIN wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:Unless a big time asset is coming attached to that contract, but not a collection of low level blahness.
Like a lotto pick coming attached to said contract, or another Russell level prospect, yeah, it makes total sense. But a couple late 1st rounders and a C+ unknown prospect? Not so much. We need the whole 50 cent piece and the quarter, not 5 dimes, 2 nickels and 15 pennies.
Ryan Anderson's deal is basically on the level of Mozgov's. Sure he can physically play and can light it up from deep, but he's a huge negative on defense at a position where it's highly important and a mediocre rebounder, passer, etc. He's mainly a 1 trick pony. Can't finish, does nothing but pop J's, yuck.
Ryan Anderson would be a great fit for the style of offense this team players, but factoring in his age, poor defense, and contract I would definitely stay away if I were the Nets.
I would personally offer KCP a 3 year deal, for 51 million, with a player option in the third year. In this juncture of the offseason, I believe this is the smart play as the Nets need to take advantage of the fact that a young player who has shown flashes is available this late in free agency. I think this is a good offer considering that there are few teams that have both the money and playing time KCP is seeking (Nets, Lakers, Hawks, and maybe Sixers but highly doubt it). Nets offer him more security by making the contract multiple years instead of 1 like the Lakers (and possibly the Sixers) and the player option is a sweetner. The Net offer him a starting spot which the Sixers probably won't and offer a bigger market than both the Hawks and Sixers (if the money is the same from the hawks and sixers, believe this could be a factor).
If he accepts, he has a minimum of 2 years to prove himself as a high quality starter and if he does, he'll opt out.
If he opts out: He will hit the market at age 26. Nets get 2 good years from KCP and have the inside track to resign him if they choose to. Nets are not getting a player similar to KCP's combination of age and potential the rest of this offseason and most likely not next offseason (unless we take on another very lucky salary dump like Russell which I don't not see happening). So I think is a pragmatic move for those 2 years. And if they do not choose to pursue him, the timing would work out perfectly as the Nets own their pick in the same offseason he opts out and Carroll's contract comes off the books too.
If he opts in: It is most likely that his offensive game never improved or even slightly decreased from where it is now so he opts in just to ensure another payday. Carroll still comes off the books, Nets would still have their own pick, and KCP would be an expiring contract at 26/27 years old (someone would bite in a trade based on his defense).
PG: Lin, Dwindle, Whitehead
SG: Russell, Kilpatrick, Goodwin
SF: KCP, Levert, Harris
PF: RHJ, Booker, Acy
C: Mozgov, Allen, (1 year veteran or summer league guy)
And next off-season before Lin decides whether he opts-in or not, Nets management can make it very clear that if he stays on the team (either through opting in or opting-out and resigning), that he will be the 6th man. If he doesn't go for it, let him walk. But personally I would want him back as a auper 6th man.
A starting lineup (all 25 and younger) next year of Russell, Levert, KCP, RHJ, and Allen. Plus they will a first in the 20s and a high seconder rounder.
If KCP signs with another team, I would just throw a 1 year balloon contract at dedmon (10-12 million) or willie reed (like 6-7 million). Make sure it is a 1 year so it is an expiring deal.
What if Lin has a career year and is willing to sign for for example 4/60m to be the starter?
Vae Victus wrote:You guys are insane thinking u can get a Knicks or Houston lightly protected future picks, even swiping Hartenstein is just too much. Ryno's contract is definitely bad, but he was an important part of a team that went #3 seed in the west and thus can be said is alot more useful than drek like Mozgov or even BroLo in the court of public opinion. IE his valuation will be alot higher than what most of us would say it is.
I mean at MOST you can get is like 2 lotto protected 1sts (eternal protection cuz Morey aint no fool) and Zhou Qi (this kind has alot of potential, he's very smooth for a gangly 7ft kid), for eating Ryno and helping Melo goto HOU. HOU is the team that needs to pay out of the ass since theyre getting Melo AND dumping the putrid contract of Ryno. NYK's return is utter balls as Nicolson is a 3 year remaining deal and they need at least 1 1st rounder to not have the MSG get stormed and all the execs lynched by the mob.
I mean the basic is insane, as i noted before, but expecting to extra king's ransom+++ after getting ultra supreme lucky with DLo is just homerish. The DLo trade basicaly required Magic to go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Morey will NEVER EVER even on his worst days go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word).
Imanshar, if Lin has a career year, then the team will feel real dumb for giving KCP all that money. Unless they can find a sucker to take him for a 1st.
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
Vae Victus wrote:You guys are insane thinking u can get a Knicks or Houston lightly protected future picks, even swiping Hartenstein is just too much. Ryno's contract is definitely bad, but he was an important part of a team that went #3 seed in the west and thus can be said is alot more useful than drek like Mozgov or even BroLo in the court of public opinion. IE his valuation will be alot higher than what most of us would say it is.
I mean at MOST you can get is like 2 lotto protected 1sts (eternal protection cuz Morey aint no fool) and Zhou Qi (this kind has alot of potential, he's very smooth for a gangly 7ft kid), for eating Ryno and helping Melo goto HOU. HOU is the team that needs to pay out of the ass since theyre getting Melo AND dumping the putrid contract of Ryno. NYK's return is utter balls as Nicolson is a 3 year remaining deal and they need at least 1 1st rounder to not have the MSG get stormed and all the execs lynched by the mob.
I mean the basic is insane, as i noted before, but expecting to extra king's ransom+++ after getting ultra supreme lucky with DLo is just homerish. The DLo trade basicaly required Magic to go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Morey will NEVER EVER even on his worst days go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word).
Imanshar, if Lin has a career year, then the team will feel real dumb for giving KCP all that money. Unless they can find a sucker to take him for a 1st.