Harden-watch 2020

MrDollarBills · Post #521 » by **MrDollarBills** » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:43 pm

?s=20

This guy is seriously **** in his head. Absolutely not.

What he's doing could not only get teammates sick, but it could actually have serious repercussions if a member of the coaching staff who could have preconditions gets sick by being around him.

I'm good with what we have here. There's a reason why this guy can't get over the hump.

ecuhus1981 · Post #522 » by **ecuhus1981** » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:37 pm

^
Uh oh, the tweet is unavailable now. Was he partying again??? Maybe his agent had it removed, maybe the team suppressed it while they seek trading partners. Either way, the league is going to want to give Harden every COVID test under the sun. Before you report to camp, I could at least rationalize it as a stall tactic to force a trade. But now, 72 hours before the season starts? It seems like he's poking the bear, the league might come down hard on him.

MrDollarBills · Post #523 » by **MrDollarBills** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:39 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:^
Uh oh, the tweet is unavailable now. Was he partying again??? Maybe his agent had it removed, maybe the team suppressed it while they seek trading partners. Either way, the league is going to want to give Harden every COVID test under the sun. Before you report to camp, I could at least rationalize it as a stall tactic to force a trade. But now, 72 hours before the season starts? It seems like he's poking the bear, the league might come down hard on him.

dude was out partying in a maskless closed space environment. if the Rockets let him back into the building they're stupid, and based off of the reports of how Russell Westbrook was not happy with how the Rockets were handling Covid protocols, most likely they will.

Post #524 » by **NyCeEvO** » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:36 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:^
Uh oh, the tweet is unavailable now. Was he partying again??? Maybe his agent had it removed, maybe the team suppressed it while they seek trading partners. Either way, the league is going to want to give Harden every COVID test under the sun. Before you report to camp, I could at least rationalize it as a stall tactic to force a trade. But now, 72 hours before the season starts? It seems like he's poking the bear, the league might come down hard on him.

dude was out partying in a maskless closed space environment. if the Rockets let him back into the building they're stupid, and based off of the reports of how Russell Westbrook was not happy with how the Rockets were handling Covid protocols, most likely they will.

Before the recent hoopla of Harden being photographed in a strip club during COVID, I listened to an episode of Woj’s podcast where he mentioned that Westbrook reportedly was turned off by the lack of structure and accountability in HOU. IIRC, he said Russ didn’t like how Harden decided if/when they practiced amongst other things, so rather than destroy their friendship, Russ preferred to be traded away.

If we take a step back, it is a telling sign that one of Harden’s best friends and a great player in his own right asked to be traded. Westbrook had to have known that staying with Harden would probably give him the best chance to win a title for the foreseeable future and that he would be traded to a worse team.

Russ obviously has his own issues (mainly concerning his style of play) but if the report is true, it’s pretty damning. While I don’t like ESPN’s narrative driven sensationalism, I do think they were right to ask the question of whether HOU’s capitulating to Harden’s every need has created a superstar who can’t be reined in.

I don’t think culture is a cliché for Marks. Harden is obviously a supreme talent, but last year’s Clippers are a reminder that talent alone doesn’t win and cohesion is an important intangible attribute for any championship team. I do think it’s fair to question if the gain in talent outweighs the potential cost to cohesion and culture.

Who knows...maybe it is all overblown and having Harden would all but ensure a dynastic run, barring injuries. At the same time, I can’t get rid of the feeling that a trade for Harden won’t lead to the results we think it should.

vincecarter4pres · Post #525 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:32 am

I really feel like Houston has wildly overplayed their hand here and there's a very real chance he's traded for "only" a package like what Milwaukee gave up for Jrue, meaning if we get him, we keep one of LeVert or Dinwiddie, if it's Philly they don't have to include Simmons, Miami at worst gives up Herro, etc. Maybe he's shipped to a surprise team for a similar mediocre haul out of spite, although I don't think many teams who aren't on his list, are going to ship way out in the future lightly protected picks, or any blue chip prospect. So basically, Houston is going to get a couple OK young players and gamble on a bunch of lightly protected picks, which go years and years out, upping the chance one or 2 is high lottery, or they send him to a surprise destination for one better, but still not great young player/pick and less and more tightly protected future 1st's.

DarkXaero · Post #526 » by **DarkXaero** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:02 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:I really feel like Houston has wildly overplayed their hand here and there's a very real chance he's traded for "only" a package like what Milwaukee gave up for Jrue, meaning if we get him, we keep one of LeVert or Dinwiddie, if it's Philly they don't have to include Simmons, Miami at worst gives up Herro, etc. Maybe he's shipped to a surprise team for a similar mediocre haul out of spite, although I don't think many teams who aren't on his list, are going to ship way out in the future lightly protected picks, or any blue chip prospect. So basically, Houston is going to get a couple OK young players and gamble on a bunch of lightly protected picks, which go years and years out, upping the chance one or 2 is high lottery, or they send him to a surprise destination for one better, but still not great young player/pick and less and more tightly protected future 1st's.

Not sure what makes you think any of that. Houston have a lot of leverage here still.

Hello Brooklyn · Post #527 » by **Hello Brooklyn** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:24 am

DarkXaero wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:I really feel like Houston has wildly overplayed their hand here and there's a very real chance he's traded for "only" a package like what Milwaukee gave up for Jrue, meaning if we get him, we keep one of LeVert or Dinwiddie, if it's Philly they don't have to include Simmons, Miami at worst gives up Herro, etc. Maybe he's shipped to a surprise team for a similar mediocre haul out of spite, although I don't think many teams who aren't on his list, are going to ship way out in the future lightly protected picks, or any blue chip prospect. So basically, Houston is going to get a couple OK young players and gamble on a bunch of lightly protected picks, which go years and years out, upping the chance one or 2 is high lottery, or they send him to a surprise destination for one better, but still not great young player/pick and less and more tightly protected future 1st's.
Not sure what makes you think any of that. Houston have a lot of leverage here still.

I agree. Houston still has all the leverage.

Say what you want about Harden, but hes still a top 5 player in the league and never gets hurt. Teams will pay a steep price.

I just don't think we need him after the way hes behaved. I'd rather not add to the drama when we have guys like KD/Kyrie.

ecuhus1981 · Post #528 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:21 am

^
I don't think anyone should treasure the last 3 weeks of Harden news as the first and last word on him. That's recency bias. Whether we get him or not, he deserves better.

He's doing reckless, callous things right now, things that I wouldn't recommend. He's also never done anything in the realm of this before, which tells me it had more to do with leverage and forcing his way out of a dead-end situation. Remember, he quietly requested a trade the last two offseasons, and they ignored him. He played the good soldier then, but he must be done playing nice, and has gone overboard to make sure they fulfill his desire to leave.

FlipFlopShot · Post #529 » by **FlipFlopShot** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:11 am

You guys still think we'll have to include picks? I also feel like Tucker and Harden is a package deal.

Personally, I don't think we are a championship team. Doesn't mean we need Harden, but if we do go for it, I'm willing to throw everyone in if that means we keep our picks. LeVert and Allen seems to be the core. Dinwiddie and Prince, whoever, Houston can take them. I'd prefer to keep the other guys on cheap.

We can fill the roster back up later. You know both Rondae and Musa have been waived and are available. There's always Jeremy Lin and Jamal Crawford (LMAO, I don't mind personally, but the rest of this board).

MrDollarBills · Post #530 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:50 am

FlipFlopShot wrote:You guys still think we'll have to include picks? I also feel like Tucker and Harden is a package deal.

Personally, I don't think we are a championship team. Doesn't mean we need Harden, but if we do go for it, I'm willing to throw everyone in if that means we keep our picks. LeVert and Allen seems to be the core. Dinwiddie and Prince, whoever, Houston can take them. I'd prefer to keep the other guys on cheap.

We can fill the roster back up later. You know both Rondae and Musa have been waived and are available. There's always Jeremy Lin and Jamal Crawford (LMAO, I don't mind personally, but the rest of this board).

Why aren't we a championship team?

Health is the only thing that can stop us. We have the most depth in the league and our starting unit is unguardable.

FlipFlopShot · Post #531 » by **FlipFlopShot** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:56 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
FlipFlopShot wrote:You guys still think we'll have to include picks? I also feel like Tucker and Harden is a package deal.

Personally, I don't think we are a championship team. Doesn't mean we need Harden, but if we do go for it, I'm willing to throw everyone in if that means we keep our picks. LeVert and Allen seems to be the core. Dinwiddie and Prince, whoever, Houston can take them. I'd prefer to keep the other guys on cheap.

We can fill the roster back up later. You know both Rondae and Musa have been waived and are available. There's always Jeremy Lin and Jamal Crawford (LMAO, I don't mind personally, but the rest of this board).

Why aren't we a championship team?

Health is the only thing that can stop us. We have the most depth in the league and our starting unit is unguardable.

I don't mean it like that, :lol:

. We are contending. You could say we are still underdogs compared to Lebron and AD.

We just aren't penciled in yet. I'm going for over the top dynasty. Bring those RINGS!!!

Like you said, health really does concern me. We are deep, but our key star depth is non-existent. But, then again that may be for the better for both Kyrie and KD.

Karate Diop · Post #532 » by **Karate Diop** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:27 pm

Based on talent alone I'm not sure I could turn down a Harden deal, but at the same time you'd have to wonder about how he'd influence the locker room, and how the dynamic with Kyrie would go...

MrDollarBills · Post #533 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:37 pm

Karate Diop wrote:Based on talent alone I'm not sure I could turn down a Harden deal, but at the same time you'd have to wonder about how he'd influence the locker room, and how the dynamic with Kyrie would go...

I'm good with having an unstoppable starting 5 and an elite bench unit.

MrDollarBills · Post #534 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:52 pm

Imagine if Kyrie did this:

Read on Twitter

Adam Silver needs to intervene here. He needs to be suspended. He's not only putting The Rockets roster at risk but other teams as well. I would not want the Nets setting foot on the floor against the Rockets if he's playing.

MrDollarBills · Post #535 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:47 pm

Read on Twitter

Whoops.

Brooklyn91 · Post #536 » by **Brooklyn91** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm

So what’s the verdict? Still want harden or naw? Our depth is getting a lot of praise these past 3 games we played, so Houston might take a second look at our package if they shall ever consider it. I doubt they would but stranger things have happened in 2020 and may continue into 2021

I’m fine without him to be honest

Keith Van Horn · Post #537 » by **Keith Van Horn** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:20 pm

I mean, he's doing all this to try to get TF out of Houston. I don't think he keeps this up once he's traded to the place he wants to be. I can see him putting on his "good soldier" face and getting to work with basketball only stuff again.

But for sure, all of this is hurting what Houston will get back for him in return. Maybe now it's Dinwiddie/Prince/picks, and we keep Levert.

We'd just replace Dinwiddie in the starting lineup with Harden, and then give Prince's minutes to TLC.

MarxyLebronist · Post #538 » by **MarxyLebronist** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:04 pm

No(ish) to Harden. But the last two posts talk good sense on how it would have to go if it is gong to work.

Wow the Nets looked great last night, and that depth is going to cream teams this season in particular given all the likely load management. Brilliant to keep Durant and Kyrie to 25 minutes each and dominate. Fabulous opening to the season. Totally prepared to let Curry get some easy midrange looks, and generally contested 3s well enough overall while dominating all over the floor (and the rebounds!). Looking forward to a nice season for the Nets. Harden would make that team worse, not better, unless we're totally braindead from the particularly unappealing HOU 3-ball spam approach. But I can't see him playing a positive role for that Nets team defense. Happy to have the attitude narrative (he's not trying hard to shut it down!) just be to get out of town, but wow that's a gamble when you've got two better players already, arguably.

DarkXaero · Post #539 » by **DarkXaero** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:52 pm

I know we're all high off the Nets start this year (counting preseason games), and we look amazing, but we have a long way to go. Harden's stock is deteriorating by the day with all the drama and negative stories out there, but the incentive to get him hasn't changed. He's still an elite player/superstar who would make us heavy favorites to win it all. With our defense looking better than expected though, I'm content for now, and the steep cost that it'll take to get Harden, it definitely gives reluctance to make that move.

Hello Brooklyn · Post #540 » by **Hello Brooklyn** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:07 pm

I've been off that Harden train for a while. I don't need him coming here and infecting the whole team with COVID.

Basketball is more than talent, its also about chemistry. Do you really think Harden's personality will fit here?

Levert/Dinwiddie/Allen do whatever they are asked and are super talented. They also seem to be playing hard defense.

I already think we are the best team in the league as is. Adding Harden seems like an unnecessary risk.