GT: Nets @ Cavs - Wednesday, 1/20/21 | 7:00pm EST | YES | The Big 3 Debut!

[Prokorov]

Your defense will be your achilles heel. Offensively you guys will get 110+ easy especially with 3 elite players. But you're lacking size and perimeter defense. Brown seems like a good defender so I'm not sure why he doesn't get more burn.. Nets fans can help me out on that one.

Because we are better team without him on the floor.

Defense will be fine. turnovers are whats killing us most defensively. too many easy buckets off turnovers

[Prokorov]

I thought Kyrie did a good job of staying on Sexton in the 4th, but it should have been Brown in OT. The effort it took for Kyrie to play that defense in the 4th burned him out. He could have taken Harris out since it wasn't his night tonight and had Brown come in for some fresh legs on the defensive end.

Kyrie stayed with him, but there is no way he could dog him and harass him like Brown would have.

I wouldn't even start Harris anymore. There is enough shooting. We need more defense.

Agreed.

Give me Irving/Brown/Harden/Durant/Jordan

Bench: Harris, TLC, Green, Perry.

Marks needs to get some more bodies in here immediately. The bench is not helping.

That lineup allows teams to zone us and force brown and jordan to take jump shots. teams are begging us to do that. depsite jordan playing well, our offense couldnt sustain decent play with the one forcing us to give the ball to role guys who arent out there for offense.

Once we went harris/green, it took them out of zone, and it all turned around. you can have brown, you can have jordan, i dont think you can play both for more then a few minutes together

[ecuhus1981]

KD is 0/3 on game winners this year. Why can't we just get one?

Eh, I'd give him credit for the go-ahead bucket in Milwaukee. It wasn't the very last possession, but it was last minute and clutch AF.

[Prokorov]

Kyrie stayed with him, but there is no way he could dog him and harass him like Brown would have.

I wouldn't even start Harris anymore. There is enough shooting. We need more defense.

Harris didn’t start, he was off the bench

True. And Green was really good.

Depends on the matchup. If you have a guy like Sexton you need Brown.

Sexton did little for 4.5 quarters. stopping him wasnt really an issue to the second overtime when he turned into curry. im not sure brown is defending the shot at the end of the 1st OT any better then Kyrie but i wont argue that after a stoppage and with 5 seconds left you run your best defenders on the floor situationally.

[Prokorov]

Exactly. This was literally us with DLo, Caris, Spencer, Joe and Jarrett Allen. Winning games we had no business winning because we outworked the more talented team. At the end of the day, what happened? The talented teams played deep into the summer, we were eliminated quickly. This is common NBA stuff. I'm not even sweating this loss.

To both your points, we gradually sacrifice and moved from that very identity and culture for the current prize of Durant, Kyrie and Harden...

Can’t have it both ways.....

I mean yeah we did, but right now:

1) We are trying to develop chemistry. That doesn't happen overnight

2) We gave up depth to get Harden. Marks has to address that.

3) Nash is going through some growing pains as a coach. It's better to have them now than in March and April.

The only place we lost depth with the harden trade was center. and that didnt really hurt us tonight. We have 1-2 stars playing with our bench unit. we have elite depth. no team has a harden they bring off the bench.

[therealbig3]

Green is kind of unsustainably hot from 3 btw. I love what he's brought to the team so far, and he's been an absolute steal for what we're paying him, but this is a career 34% 3pt shooter who is currently shooting over 50% from 3.

Don't be surprised when he regresses to the mean and starts missing a bunch of these 3s that he's been knocking down for us. He's not this good of a shooter over the course of his career.

[CalamityX12]

If KD KI JH n JG play again big minutes, I’m calling them the Immobile 4.... **** bad sign....

The real big 3 need energy, fast guys who can bust their ass every play....

it was our best lineup, and it will be all year long. it cant be defended. it got us back in the game, it would have won it if NASH fould with 5 seconds left in OT and everywhere hear would be calling us champions

Its not about being stop, its about getting stops or creating chances out of nothing.... they're immobile and it is what it is.

No harm for stretched but this lineup went over 15 mins I believe without change... they don't have the legs nor hips for that

[Prokorov]

If KD KI JH n JG play again big minutes, I’m calling them the Immobile 4.... **** bad sign....

The real big 3 need energy, fast guys who can bust their ass every play....

it was our best lineup, and it will be all year long. it cant be defended. it got us back in the game, it would have won it if NASH fould with 5 seconds left in OT and everywhere hear would be calling us champions

Its not about being stop, its about getting stops or creating chances out of nothing.... they're immobile and it is what it is.

No harm for stretched but this lineup went over 15 mins I believe without change... they don't have the legs nor hips for that

It is about being stopped, when you are a top offensive team but barely crack 50 points in the first half in a high pace/possesion game. The zone caused us all kinds of issues and forces shots from people other then the big 3. which worked until we went small with 5 shooters and forced them out of it. that is literally when the game turned.

I agree too many minutes from our starters, but nash tried a few times to bring one of the big 3 off the floor and they built a lead back up. Big part of that was harden not being more aggressive when Kyrie or KD went to the bench... he needs to be more aware that he needs to be a scorer then.

[therealbig3]

I would.

The coaching SUCKED.

I’m looking at Sean Marks right now on all of these things because Nash looks pathetic with some of these rotations and decisions.

More losses to sub 500 teams. We traded depth to avoid these kind of losses. No excuse. Stop it.

Relax bro. It's not the end of the world. We have things to work on. It's just one game in January, no one will care about this in two weeks.

We started the Big 4 with Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce, KG and Lopez AT Cleveland. We lost similar to tonight. We ended up playing Miami after that, looked good at Barclays. The rest after that is history.

The Nets tonight played at Cleveland in the new Big 3 debut and will host Miami on Saturday....We had a rookie coach then, we have a rookie coach now.

Not obviously saying this is the same exact situation but the omen isn’t looking good. It’s too similar for me.

Went back through the thread and saw this...this is so different from our fake big 4, it's not even funny. Not a single one of those players from the "big 4" was actually a star anymore. They were all either washed up (Deron and KG) or a year away from being washed up (Joe and Pierce). They were all literally glorified role players that were slow and unathletic and had 0 chemistry.

Kyrie and Durant have great chemistry. Harden and Durant have great chemistry. The challenge right now is to develop that great chemistry with all 3 together. But in terms of talent and fit, there's no question that our current squad is just on a different level. Harden and Durant are MVP-level players in their prime. Kyrie is an All-Star in his prime. Their oldest player is 32, not 37. Their average age is 30.3, not 33.5. I also don't expect all of these guys to be out of the league within 4 years, the way the "big 4" was.

Also, Kidd was a megalomaniac and a huge douchebag, who I don't think actually cared about listening to anyone else. Nash is one of the friendliest, most cooperative people the league has ever seen, he's humble and willing to learn from his mistakes, he's not trying to usurp power, and he let go of his ego and surrounded himself with veteran coaches that have years of experience on him so that he can learn from them and grow. I get two totally different vibes from Kidd and Nash.

[Paradise]

Cavs scored 11-13 FG on uncontested shots according to ESPN.

[Prokorov]

Just finished my second watch.... some things that stood out:

1) I thought Harden needed to be in more pick and rolls to create offense, but the cavs zone took that away completely. So it really wasnt an option until later in the game, but by that point we were scoring at will, so it was less of an issue

2) WAAAAY to many live ball turnovers. Harden and KD started 6 fast breaks on my count. Kyrie had a live ball one and harris as well. Alot of the defensive woes are poor play/effort but alot of it is giving teams 1 on 0 fast breaks.

3) Nets beat the zone a few times with Kyrie cutting to the FT line and hitting an open jumper. but never went back to it. itnerested to see if they go to more of him and KT at the FT line vs the zone on friday.

4) We ran a million double pick pin downs to get kyrie or KD the ball 100 feet from the hoop when it was already in hardens hands 100 feet from the hoop. it just wasted shot clock. need to re think those. some of it was the Cavs D.. they really made our guys work to just catch the ball.

5) I get holding on to your challenges, but nash outright refuses to use them unless its late. smart coaches will change clear bad calls that lead to FT + a foul on your star. he let that go twice in a game that went into 2 overtimes.

6) Nash failed TWICE on the last play of overtime.... you foul there with 5 seconds up three (Fail #1). if you dont plan on fouling, you send in your 5 best defenders (Fail #2). how he handles subs and harden is less of an issue and has minimal impact. basic decisions like these you cant fail at. where is harrington/vaughn/D'antoni too.... someone needs to be yelling these things at him.

7) Kyrie played as good D as you really can on that final shot of OT. you cant risk fouling and giviing him 3 FTs and you cant double and leave an opening guy for 3. they screen to get room and kyrie still left him 0 air space, forced him to fade, and had a hand right in his face. Bruce brown doesnt block the shot, which is the only other thing that works there.

The biggest thing is harden needs to adjust.... and really he is the only one of the big three that has a task to adjust. He is the defacto point guard... with KD/Kyrie they just look to score, he has more responsibility. he needs to figure out when to be more aggressive and when not to. and he certainly needs to hunt fouls more, its a huge part of his game.

6 FTA for harden ina 2 OT contest cant happen

[Prokorov]

Relax bro. It's not the end of the world. We have things to work on. It's just one game in January, no one will care about this in two weeks.

We started the Big 4 with Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce, KG and Lopez AT Cleveland. We lost similar to tonight. We ended up playing Miami after that, looked good at Barclays. The rest after that is history.

The Nets tonight played at Cleveland in the new Big 3 debut and will host Miami on Saturday....We had a rookie coach then, we have a rookie coach now.

Not obviously saying this is the same exact situation but the omen isn’t looking good. It’s too similar for me.

Went back through the thread and saw this...this is so different from our fake big 4, it's not even funny. Not a single one of those players from the "big 4" was actually a star anymore. They were all either washed up (Deron and KG) or a year away from being washed up (Joe and Pierce). They were all literally glorified role players that were slow and unathletic and had 0 chemistry.

Kyrie and Durant have great chemistry. Harden and Durant have great chemistry. The challenge right now is to develop that great chemistry with all 3 together. But in terms of talent and fit, there's no question that our current squad is just on a different level. Harden and Durant are MVP-level players in their prime. Kyrie is an All-Star in his prime. Their oldest player is 32, not 37. Their average age is 30.3, not 33.5. I also don't expect all of these guys to be out of the league within 4 years, the way the "big 4" was.

Also, Kidd was a megalomaniac and a huge douchebag, who I don't think actually cared about listening to anyone else. Nash is one of the friendliest, most cooperative people the league has ever seen, he's humble and willing to learn from his mistakes, he's not trying to usurp power, and he let go of his ego and surrounded himself with veteran coaches that have years of experience on him so that he can learn from them and grow. I get two totally different vibes from Kidd and Nash.

Yeah, it isnt even close as a comparison. That team was super slow and not athletic. KD and DJ are both athletes. it doesnt get quicker then Kyrie. they have some speed. and teams arent beating us with athleticism either. if we cut our turnovers to league average that alone would likely put us top 10-ish defensively.

its really chemistry and maybe finding the right minutes distribution.

this is about as bad as the big 3 gets.... and double overtime loss where your big 3 has 2 guys going for 40 and the other a triple double.

[Pablo Escobar]

Your defense will be your achilles heel. Offensively you guys will get 110+ easy especially with 3 elite players. But you're lacking size and perimeter defense. Brown seems like a good defender so I'm not sure why he doesn't get more burn.. Nets fans can help me out on that one.

Because we are better team without him on the floor.

Defense will be fine. turnovers are whats killing us most defensively. too many easy buckets off turnovers

How will the defense be fine? You can't give up a bunch of points and rely on getting one stop late in games and barely winning. Kd has been playing a ton of minutes off of a gruesome injury so I just don't see how you'll even be a decent defense as currently constructed. DJ is cooked on that end especially on switches, he just isn't fast enough to do anything. As you saw with the Bucks game they just screened Kd off of Middleton and Dj gave up uncontested shot of uncontested shot.

[Prokorov]

How will the defense be fine? You can't give up a bunch of points and rely on getting one stop late in games and barely winning. Kd has been playing a ton of minutes off of a gruesome injury so I just don't see how you'll even be a decent defense as currently constructed. DJ is cooked on that end especially on switches, he just isn't fast enough to do anything. As you saw with the Bucks game they just screened Kd off of Middleton and Dj gave up uncontested shot of uncontested shot.

Our defense is 16th in the NBA right now. It is already ok.... and that is with shuffling lineups, trades, new faces, KD just like 12 games in, harden 3 games as a net, etc... This team will finish 10th or so defensively, which with their offense is good enough to get it done.

Our defensive issues boil down to turnovers (last in the NBA in points allowed of turnovers) and Chemistry (too many changes/new faces. way too many give away layups/threes on missed assignments.

both of those things will get better once the team plays 20-25 games together.

defense is a complete non issue. turnovers and Harden knowing when to try and score and when to be a facilitator are most important

gisys will get maintenence days. big minutes dont matter as much as no off days

[Pablo Escobar]

How will the defense be fine? You can't give up a bunch of points and rely on getting one stop late in games and barely winning. Kd has been playing a ton of minutes off of a gruesome injury so I just don't see how you'll even be a decent defense as currently constructed. DJ is cooked on that end especially on switches, he just isn't fast enough to do anything. As you saw with the Bucks game they just screened Kd off of Middleton and Dj gave up uncontested shot of uncontested shot.

Our defense is 16th in the NBA right now. It is already ok.... and that is with shuffling lineups, trades, new faces, KD just like 12 games in, harden 3 games as a net, etc... This team will finish 10th or so defensively, which with their offense is good enough to get it done.

Our defensive issues boil down to turnovers (last in the NBA in points allowed of turnovers) and Chemistry (too many changes/new faces. way too many give away layups/threes on missed assignments.

both of those things will get better once the team plays 20-25 games together.

defense is a complete non issue. turnovers and Harden knowing when to try and score and when to be a facilitator are most important

gisys will get maintenence days. big minutes dont matter as much as no off days

Alright bro you watch them consistently so I'll agree with your assessment. I still think though having a few great defenders you can put on star players would unlock you guys even more. Add in another big that can either replace or split minutes with Dj and you're golden. I mean you already are lol but it'd make things a lot easier on the big 3, and I agree with the Harden issue. He's deferring but should just play his game since he like to pass if the defense shifts to him so it's not like he'll just put his head down and ignore open teammates.

[Prokorov]

Alright bro you watch them consistently so I'll agree with your assessment. I still think though having a few great defenders you can put on star players would unlock you guys even more. Add in another big that can either replace or split minutes with Dj and you're golden. I mean you already are lol but it'd make things a lot easier on the big 3, and I agree with the Harden issue. He's deferring but should just play his game since he like to pass if the defense shifts to him so it's not like he'll just put his head down and ignore open teammates.

it doesnt work that way. 1 defender doesnt help... because it just takes 1 or 2 screens to force the matchup you want. you need 2-3 defenders on the floor to make an impact to team defense. sure in a short stretch someone like brown can do some things. but the idea you can put them on "player x" to take them out just doesnt work. Too much shooting the NBA not to switch perimeter screens, and the switching takes your 1 lockdown defender off their scorer.

We have plenty of D anyhow, the turnovers are the big issue and the wide open shots due to mis communication.

[DarkXaero]

I think we'll eventually figure out both our defense and offense but this was a very frustrating loss, nonetheless. It just sucks playing your guys that many minutes and lose the game from a winning position to what is likely a lotto team. Props to Cavs tho, they're a genuinely good defensive team that just got better with Allen/Prince, and Nance is a beast defensively. I would love to have Nance on this team and I wish we were somehow able to make him a part of that Harden trade.

[ecuhus1981]

Kyrie stayed with him, but there is no way he could dog him and harass him like Brown would have.

I wouldn't even start Harris anymore. There is enough shooting. We need more defense.

Agreed.

Give me Irving/Brown/Harden/Durant/Jordan

Bench: Harris, TLC, Green, Perry.

Marks needs to get some more bodies in here immediately. The bench is not helping.

That lineup allows teams to zone us and force brown and jordan to take jump shots. teams are begging us to do that. depsite jordan playing well, our offense couldnt sustain decent play with the one forcing us to give the ball to role guys who arent out there for offense.

Once we went harris/green, it took them out of zone, and it all turned around. you can have brown, you can have jordan, i dont think you can play both for more then a few minutes together

This is a valid point, P.

Still, I don't think us facing a 1v1 scheme rather than zone is so detrimental, that it counteracts the benefit of having a solid defense. Yes, DJ and BB together for long stretches shrinks the floor. But that's why you have 3 elite, elite players on the court, to withstand the stoutest D and still produce efficiently.

Starting Friday and until we sign Dedmon or use our DPE on Holmes, this should be the rotation:

Irving, Harden, Brown, Durant, Jordan
Shamet, Harris, TLC, Green

Uncle Jeff has been playing his balls off, and he had great rapport with the stars. BUT, when you know you're shorthanded at C, it's unwise to start your backup 5 alongside your starting C. It's better to keep him on reserve, and he can help the 2nd unit playmaking concerns.

[NetsJets]

Tough loss. Games like this magnifies our defensive issues at times. Then despite having 3 stars not hitting keys shots down the stretch to close them out. Nash should not play a 8 man rotation in January.

[ecuhus1981]

No complaining on the yacht. 29 teams would love to have our problem. It's Game 1 of the 3 Kings era, and they will have to learn and adjust on the fly. Most importantly, the collective will to adapt to one another is strong.

Hopefully, this one stings enough to be a well learned lesson. We didn't defend a lick, and gave them too much confidence. No matter how much we can score, the W's won't come in bunches until we take pride in defense.

Lots to praise, lots to learn. I have no Jester nomination, just hope for a better effort Friday and Saturday. Go Nets!