2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[vincecarter4pres]

Yes, as i said, Magic was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) idiot who got taken to the cleaners. Magic thinking he's all that and that PG13, LBJ, and Westbrook all are gonna come strolling into town next cuz Magic is just that awesome, literally murdered the Lakers future for a lottery ticket of a chance that superstars will try to form a superteam in LA. All the while still having cap clogging deals like Luol Deng and Jordan Clarkson on the books.

Magic Johnson is basically the equivalent of Billy King of this era. The Nets best chance to rape Magic and the Lakers some more in another lopsided deal is next year when theyre so utterly desperate to dump salary AGAIN that they'll throw in Brandon Ingram to dump Luol Deng. "Cmon Lebron, we opened the capspace, u always said u wanted to come to LA, cmon Lebron/PG13/Westbrook, pretty plz..." It's **** sad and pathetic how the proud Laker franchise is basically a laughing stock.

Morey is not Magic. Magic is proving all of his doubters fears true (like myself), he's gonna make more panic moves next offseason to try to "right the ship", god my beloved Lakers **** up so bad in not getting Jerry West back on board. The Clippers made alot of shrewd moves after the hard call to not mega super max CP3. I'm 100% sure that it was Jerry West who convinced ownership to move on, isntead of just giving in to CP3 and remain on the playoff treadmill, cuz Doc sure as **** has no vision and wants CP3 there to carry the offense on his back. It's alot easier coaching job when u dont need to run a system.

You don't get it, there's no one left to absorb these contracts and that space is invaluable in the coming summers for a plethora of reasons. No one is just going to do these teams a favor.

If they can't move him, the Knix are going to have to eat like $55 million dollars.

If Houston can't acquire him, Melo will probably sign with Cleveland over the Rockets if he's given his walking papers.

[Prokorov]

I wonder if Marks is banking on being the 3rd team in a Knicks/Rockets trade for Carmelo Anthony. IMO, it makes more sense than KCP, though probably not as much as just signing JaMychal Green/filler, or possibly doing nothing at all.

A deal something like this:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycuytjv5

Except that BRK also gets a HOU 1st, HOU 2nd, and possibly Hartenstein or Zhou Qi (not included in the trade machine link, but they'd both work). Almost no chance HOU adds any of Gordon/Ariza. They need both for their playoff run.

Knicks want a straight salary dump, so the trade machine deal would be better for them if they received one year of Trevor Booker instead of 3 years of Nicholson, but if they get desperate to unload Melo, they might bite the bullet. All the other HOU contracts are unguaranteed, so those contracts vanish with immediate cuts. Basically, the Knicks would trade away Melo's 50M/2years for Nicholson's 18M/3years. That's a relatively decent salary-dump, and they don't have much options, as I doubt any other team would take Anderson except the Nets or Blazers (and it's much trickier for the Blazers to do it). With Booker, they'd get Melo's 50M/2 years off for 9M/1year. Obviously better for them, but I think the Knicks would bite on Nicholson's contract with how badly they seem to want to move Melo. If this happens, Hartenstein/Zhou end up with either the Knicks or Nets--I'm assuming the Knicks--as otherwise, they'd be eating Nicholson just for a Melo dump, and that's too depressing... They'd at least want some sort of legit asset added.

HOU obviously would get Melo, as they wish. They pay a 1st, 2nd, and one young prospect for their troubles. That's about the right amount for them to pay to get rid of Anderson. I don't think Morey would go as high as two 1sts, though that would be the dream.

Either way, Nets get their stretch 4, some draft picks, and Anderson's 20m/year for 3 years--which isn't as bad as it initially sounds if you factor in that you got rid of Nicholson's 6M/year over 3 years. It's basically a net surplus of adding Anderson for 14m/year for 3 years, and you get a few picks out of it. Nets end up with two low 1st RD Picks again in 2018, then they get their own pick once again in 2019.

i like the idea of benefitting from a carmello to houston deal.... but not without the knicks assets coming this way.

Houstons first does lttle for me. that slike like mid to late 20's. id need a knicks first or one of their younf players

[Packers+NetsWIN]

You guys are insane thinking u can get a Knicks or Houston lightly protected future picks, even swiping Hartenstein is just too much. Ryno's contract is definitely bad, but he was an important part of a team that went #3 seed in the west and thus can be said is alot more useful than drek like Mozgov or even BroLo in the court of public opinion. IE his valuation will be alot higher than what most of us would say it is.

I mean at MOST you can get is like 2 lotto protected 1sts (eternal protection cuz Morey aint no fool) and Zhou Qi (this kind has alot of potential, he's very smooth for a gangly 7ft kid), for eating Ryno and helping Melo goto HOU. HOU is the team that needs to pay out of the ass since theyre getting Melo AND dumping the putrid contract of Ryno. NYK's return is utter balls as Nicolson is a 3 year remaining deal and they need at least 1 1st rounder to not have the MSG get stormed and all the execs lynched by the mob.

I mean the basic is insane, as i noted before, but expecting to extra king's ransom+++ after getting ultra supreme lucky with DLo is just homerish. The DLo trade basicaly required Magic to go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Morey will NEVER EVER even on his worst days go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Imanshar, if Lin has a career year, then the team will feel real dumb for giving KCP all that money. Unless they can find a sucker to take him for a 1st.

That is wht I think we should avoid signing KCP, even if Lin leaves, we can just play LeVert and Russell at 1 and 2. I think we should hold on to cap space.

But what are you hoping for exactly by holding onto the cap space? If you answer is signing specific player, I seriously doubt the Nets will end up signing a FA that matches the combination of age and potential that KP has currently. He is not a star by any means but he is an above average defender and has the potential to be a very good 3&d player.

If you are advocating for taking on another salary dump, which I can see as a valid argument and would be okay with if they chose to go that route also, then I have to warn you that no Russells will be given to the Nets. And I doubt you will even be able to get soneone of KCP's combination of age and potential as the asset in a dump. And somehow even if you pull that off!!!, you are still paying the guy dumped on the Nets around the same as I want them to pay KCP

[Prokorov]

It's just not enough value imho, without the Knix pick with at best, top 8 protection.

NYK is not going to be able to dump Melo unless they take back another terrible contract, like Shumpert, Allen Crabbe, Evan Turner, something along those lines at least if they aren't attaching major value to it.

In the end they're probably going to buy him out if they don't take back a deal such as that.

yeah id need a minimum of:

-Nicholson out
-knicks 2018 top 5 or 10 protected
-rockets 2020 top 3 protected
Hernangomez or hartenstein

ryan anderson is a bad contract and trash defender/rebounder. we dont need more lopez types. and if houstons wants a superteam then this is the cost

[Prokorov]

Unless a big time asset is coming attached to that contract, but not a collection of low level blahness.

Like a lotto pick coming attached to said contract, or another Russell level prospect, yeah, it makes total sense. But a couple late 1st rounders and a C+ unknown prospect? Not so much. We need the whole 50 cent piece and the quarter, not 5 dimes, 2 nickels and 15 pennies.

Ryan Anderson's deal is basically on the level of Mozgov's. Sure he can physically play and can light it up from deep, but he's a huge negative on defense at a position where it's highly important and a mediocre rebounder, passer, etc. He's mainly a 1 trick pony. Can't finish, does nothing but pop J's, yuck.

Ryan Anderson would be a great fit for the style of offense this team players, but factoring in his age, poor defense, and contract I would definitely stay away if I were the Nets.

I would personally offer KCP a 3 year deal, for 51 million, with a player option in the third year. In this juncture of the offseason, I believe this is the smart play as the Nets need to take advantage of the fact that a young player who has shown flashes is available this late in free agency. I think this is a good offer considering that there are few teams that have both the money and playing time KCP is seeking (Nets, Lakers, Hawks, and maybe Sixers but highly doubt it). Nets offer him more security by making the contract multiple years instead of 1 like the Lakers (and possibly the Sixers) and the player option is a sweetner. The Net offer him a starting spot which the Sixers probably won't and offer a bigger market than both the Hawks and Sixers (if the money is the same from the hawks and sixers, believe this could be a factor).

If he accepts, he has a minimum of 2 years to prove himself as a high quality starter and if he does, he'll opt out.

If he opts out: He will hit the market at age 26. Nets get 2 good years from KCP and have the inside track to resign him if they choose to. Nets are not getting a player similar to KCP's combination of age and potential the rest of this offseason and most likely not next offseason (unless we take on another very lucky salary dump like Russell which I don't not see happening). So I think is a pragmatic move for those 2 years. And if they do not choose to pursue him, the timing would work out perfectly as the Nets own their pick in the same offseason he opts out and Carroll's contract comes off the books too.

If he opts in: It is most likely that his offensive game never improved or even slightly decreased from where it is now so he opts in just to ensure another payday. Carroll still comes off the books, Nets would still have their own pick, and KCP would be an expiring contract at 26/27 years old (someone would bite in a trade based on his defense).

PG: Lin, Dwindle, Whitehead
SG: Russell, Kilpatrick, Goodwin
SF: KCP, Levert, Harris
PF: RHJ, Booker, Acy
C: Mozgov, Allen, (1 year veteran or summer league guy)

And next off-season before Lin decides whether he opts-in or not, Nets management can make it very clear that if he stays on the team (either through opting in or opting-out and resigning), that he will be the 6th man. If he doesn't go for it, let him walk. But personally I would want him back as a auper 6th man.

A starting lineup (all 25 and younger) next year of Russell, Levert, KCP, RHJ, and Allen. Plus they will a first in the 20s and a high seconder rounder.

If KCP signs with another team, I would just throw a 1 year balloon contract at dedmon (10-12 million) or willie reed (like 6-7 million). Make sure it is a 1 year so it is an expiring deal.

What if Lin has a career year and is willing to sign for for example 4/60m to be the starter?

at 29-30 Lin doesnt make sense long term or fit the timeline.

ideal scneario is he plays out this year, plays next year and is traded at next years deadline for an asset.

[imanshar]

You guys are insane thinking u can get a Knicks or Houston lightly protected future picks, even swiping Hartenstein is just too much. Ryno's contract is definitely bad, but he was an important part of a team that went #3 seed in the west and thus can be said is alot more useful than drek like Mozgov or even BroLo in the court of public opinion. IE his valuation will be alot higher than what most of us would say it is.

I mean at MOST you can get is like 2 lotto protected 1sts (eternal protection cuz Morey aint no fool) and Zhou Qi (this kind has alot of potential, he's very smooth for a gangly 7ft kid), for eating Ryno and helping Melo goto HOU. HOU is the team that needs to pay out of the ass since theyre getting Melo AND dumping the putrid contract of Ryno. NYK's return is utter balls as Nicolson is a 3 year remaining deal and they need at least 1 1st rounder to not have the MSG get stormed and all the execs lynched by the mob.

I mean the basic is insane, as i noted before, but expecting to extra king's ransom+++ after getting ultra supreme lucky with DLo is just homerish. The DLo trade basicaly required Magic to go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Morey will NEVER EVER even on his worst days go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Imanshar, if Lin has a career year, then the team will feel real dumb for giving KCP all that money. Unless they can find a sucker to take him for a 1st.

That is wht I think we should avoid signing KCP, even if Lin leaves, we can just play LeVert and Russell at 1 and 2. I think we should hold on to cap space.

But what are you hoping for exactly by holding onto the cap space? If you answer is signing specific player, I seriously doubt the Nets will end up signing a FA that matches the combination of age and potential that KP has currently. He is not a star by any means but he is an above average defender and has the potential to be a very good 3&d player.

If you are advocating for taking on another salary dump, which I can see as a valid argument and would be okay with if they chose to go that route also, then I have to warn you that no Russells will be given to the Nets. And I doubt you will even be able to get soneone of KCP's combination of age and potential as the asset in a dump. And somehow even if you pull that off!!!, you are still paying the guy dumped on the Nets around the same as I want them to pay KCP

I think cap space is just so valuable right now since only few teams have it. We can be the third team for a trade or just wait tail next free agency and I am sure many opportunities will arise to use it.

[Prokorov]

You guys are insane thinking u can get a Knicks or Houston lightly protected future picks, even swiping Hartenstein is just too much. Ryno's contract is definitely bad, but he was an important part of a team that went #3 seed in the west and thus can be said is alot more useful than drek like Mozgov or even BroLo in the court of public opinion. IE his valuation will be alot higher than what most of us would say it is.

I mean at MOST you can get is like 2 lotto protected 1sts (eternal protection cuz Morey aint no fool) and Zhou Qi (this kind has alot of potential, he's very smooth for a gangly 7ft kid), for eating Ryno and helping Melo goto HOU. HOU is the team that needs to pay out of the ass since theyre getting Melo AND dumping the putrid contract of Ryno. NYK's return is utter balls as Nicolson is a 3 year remaining deal and they need at least 1 1st rounder to not have the MSG get stormed and all the execs lynched by the mob.

I mean the basic is insane, as i noted before, but expecting to extra king's ransom+++ after getting ultra supreme lucky with DLo is just homerish. The DLo trade basicaly required Magic to go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word), Morey will NEVER EVER even on his worst days go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Imanshar, if Lin has a career year, then the team will feel real dumb for giving KCP all that money. Unless they can find a sucker to take him for a 1st.

im not saying those teams say yes... im saying it doesnt make sense to do it for anything less. the cap space is much mroe valueable then a trash houston pick and C+ prospect

[Prokorov]

That is wht I think we should avoid signing KCP, even if Lin leaves, we can just play LeVert and Russell at 1 and 2. I think we should hold on to cap space.

But what are you hoping for exactly by holding onto the cap space? If you answer is signing specific player, I seriously doubt the Nets will end up signing a FA that matches the combination of age and potential that KP has currently. He is not a star by any means but he is an above average defender and has the potential to be a very good 3&d player.

If you are advocating for taking on another salary dump, which I can see as a valid argument and would be okay with if they chose to go that route also, then I have to warn you that no Russells will be given to the Nets. And I doubt you will even be able to get soneone of KCP's combination of age and potential as the asset in a dump. And somehow even if you pull that off!!!, you are still paying the guy dumped on the Nets around the same as I want them to pay KCP

I think cap space is just so valuable right now since only few teams have it. We can be the third team for a trade or just wait tail next free agency and I am sure many opportunities will arise to use it.

if we sign KCP we will still have tons of cap space in the offseason.

Booker/Acy/Harris/Skil ecpire to the tune of 14 million. if lin opts out thats 27 million

[Packers+NetsWIN]

But what are you hoping for exactly by holding onto the cap space? If you answer is signing specific player, I seriously doubt the Nets will end up signing a FA that matches the combination of age and potential that KP has currently. He is not a star by any means but he is an above average defender and has the potential to be a very good 3&d player.

If you are advocating for taking on another salary dump, which I can see as a valid argument and would be okay with if they chose to go that route also, then I have to warn you that no Russells will be given to the Nets. And I doubt you will even be able to get soneone of KCP's combination of age and potential as the asset in a dump. And somehow even if you pull that off!!!, you are still paying the guy dumped on the Nets around the same as I want them to pay KCP

I think cap space is just so valuable right now since only few teams have it. We can be the third team for a trade or just wait tail next free agency and I am sure many opportunities will arise to use it.

if we sign KCP we will still have tons of cap space in the offseason.

Booker/Acy/Harris/Skil ecpire to the tune of 14 million. if lin opts out thats 27 million

Exactly, and Carroll is an expiring contract next off-season so if for whatever reason the Nets needed more cap space I'm sure they can find a potential suitor for him. Especially if he has a rebound year in Kenny's system.

[imanshar]

Ryan Anderson would be a great fit for the style of offense this team players, but factoring in his age, poor defense, and contract I would definitely stay away if I were the Nets.

I would personally offer KCP a 3 year deal, for 51 million, with a player option in the third year. In this juncture of the offseason, I believe this is the smart play as the Nets need to take advantage of the fact that a young player who has shown flashes is available this late in free agency. I think this is a good offer considering that there are few teams that have both the money and playing time KCP is seeking (Nets, Lakers, Hawks, and maybe Sixers but highly doubt it). Nets offer him more security by making the contract multiple years instead of 1 like the Lakers (and possibly the Sixers) and the player option is a sweetner. The Net offer him a starting spot which the Sixers probably won't and offer a bigger market than both the Hawks and Sixers (if the money is the same from the hawks and sixers, believe this could be a factor).

If he accepts, he has a minimum of 2 years to prove himself as a high quality starter and if he does, he'll opt out.

If he opts out: He will hit the market at age 26. Nets get 2 good years from KCP and have the inside track to resign him if they choose to. Nets are not getting a player similar to KCP's combination of age and potential the rest of this offseason and most likely not next offseason (unless we take on another very lucky salary dump like Russell which I don't not see happening). So I think is a pragmatic move for those 2 years. And if they do not choose to pursue him, the timing would work out perfectly as the Nets own their pick in the same offseason he opts out and Carroll's contract comes off the books too.

If he opts in: It is most likely that his offensive game never improved or even slightly decreased from where it is now so he opts in just to ensure another payday. Carroll still comes off the books, Nets would still have their own pick, and KCP would be an expiring contract at 26/27 years old (someone would bite in a trade based on his defense).

PG: Lin, Dwindle, Whitehead
SG: Russell, Kilpatrick, Goodwin
SF: KCP, Levert, Harris
PF: RHJ, Booker, Acy
C: Mozgov, Allen, (1 year veteran or summer league guy)

And next off-season before Lin decides whether he opts-in or not, Nets management can make it very clear that if he stays on the team (either through opting in or opting-out and resigning), that he will be the 6th man. If he doesn't go for it, let him walk. But personally I would want him back as a auper 6th man.

A starting lineup (all 25 and younger) next year of Russell, Levert, KCP, RHJ, and Allen. Plus they will a first in the 20s and a high seconder rounder.

If KCP signs with another team, I would just throw a 1 year balloon contract at dedmon (10-12 million) or willie reed (like 6-7 million). Make sure it is a 1 year so it is an expiring deal.

What if Lin has a career year and is willing to sign for for example 4/60m to be the starter?

at 29-30 Lin doesnt make sense long term or fit the timeline.

ideal scneario is he plays out this year, plays next year and is traded at next years deadline for an asset.

Lin is 29 but he only has played 5 full nba seasons so far. I am sure he has 5 more seasons of top basketball in him. Nash played his best basketball after he turned 30 (not saying Lin is as good as Nash but their career timeline is similar.)

[Packers+NetsWIN]

What if Lin has a career year and is willing to sign for for example 4/60m to be the starter?

at 29-30 Lin doesnt make sense long term or fit the timeline.

ideal scneario is he plays out this year, plays next year and is traded at next years deadline for an asset.

Lin is 29 but he only has played 5 full nba seasons so far. I am sure he has 5 more seasons of top basketball in him. Nash played his best basketball after he turned 30 (not saying Lin is as good as Nash but their career timeline is similar.)

You are right and that is why I would still like to keep Lin. Ideally, he opts in. If not, maybe he opts out and the nets can sign him to a contract like 3 years for 36 million with a player option. Even if he signs a 4 year 60 million contract (which I can live with but would definitely not advocate for as I would need to cut down tbe years or reduce the yearly salary to 10-12) like you said, the nets would still have somewhere around 10 million plus Carroll's expiring.

[Prokorov]

What if Lin has a career year and is willing to sign for for example 4/60m to be the starter?

at 29-30 Lin doesnt make sense long term or fit the timeline.

ideal scneario is he plays out this year, plays next year and is traded at next years deadline for an asset.

Lin is 29 but he only has played 5 full nba seasons so far. I am sure he has 5 more seasons of top basketball in him. Nash played his best basketball after he turned 30 (not saying Lin is as good as Nash but their career timeline is similar.)

exactly lin is 29 now (next month). he will be 30 next offseason (next august).

what good is "5 more years"? its probably 3-4 more years of rebuilding. we need guys 20-25 not 30-35

[Prokorov]

at 29-30 Lin doesnt make sense long term or fit the timeline.

ideal scneario is he plays out this year, plays next year and is traded at next years deadline for an asset.

Lin is 29 but he only has played 5 full nba seasons so far. I am sure he has 5 more seasons of top basketball in him. Nash played his best basketball after he turned 30 (not saying Lin is as good as Nash but their career timeline is similar.)

You are right and that is why I would still like to keep Lin. Ideally, he opts in. If not, maybe he opts out and the nets can sign him to a contract like 3 years for 36 million with a player option. Even if he signs a 4 year 60 million contract (which I can live with but would definitely not advocate for as I would need to cut down tbe years or reduce the yearly salary to 10-12) like you said, the nets would still have somewhere around 10 million plus Carroll's expiring.

ideally he plays the 17-18 season
opts in
and we trade him at the allstar break of the 18-19 season

we geet him another 1.5 seasons then get an asset for him

[All Nets]

at 29-30 Lin doesnt make sense long term or fit the timeline.

ideal scneario is he plays out this year, plays next year and is traded at next years deadline for an asset.

Lin is 29 but he only has played 5 full nba seasons so far. I am sure he has 5 more seasons of top basketball in him. Nash played his best basketball after he turned 30 (not saying Lin is as good as Nash but their career timeline is similar.)

exactly lin is 29 now (next month). he will be 30 next offseason (next august).

what good is "5 more years"? its probably 3-4 more years of rebuilding. we need guys 20-25 not 30-35

I would keep Lin on the team for culture purposes, if he's willing to sign on a reasonable deal. The guy has a great relationship with Atkinson and has shown willingness to come off the bench when needed. I believe his mentorship is the type that could speed up a rookie's development process. Given we have tons of young high potential guys with some solid 1st round picks come summer 2019 (Lin opts in), a 4/60 deal would pay for itself down the road if you believe he can help rookie's on 3M dollar deals play to 10M value.

But this would all come down to how he plays this upcoming season.

[Mkdaman1818]

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[spaceballer]

On a reasonable contract, the only blemish KCP has is his lack of versatility on offense. Doesn't have the handles or court vision to play PG or consistently make decisions off the pick and roll, too small to guard opposing SFs, in a system where Atkinson prioritizes flexibility. Almost all of our other players can play or has played at least two different positions.

This is a fair point and an underrated comment. KCP does not have the same versatility as others.

Pistons fans on reddit are saying that he can't play or defend SF and would be a disaster at 3. I don't know how much of that is sour grapes or not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoNets/comments/6m1m1k/a_few_words_about_kcp_from_a_pistons_fan/

And when they needed players to step up as playmakers and ballhandlers during Reggie Jackson's absence, it didn't seem like KCP showed the PG-esque ballhandling playmaker potential that guys like Harden or Jimmy Butler did when asked to step up. So he may not be able to play the combo guard role that Kenny wants for multiple ball-handlers/playmakers in his motion offense (Yogi was ditched partly for being too short to play SG in addition to PG, I think). But perhaps Markinson sees more potential.

I think the value would largely depend on the contract he gets.

The Pistons were the team that knew him best, and they were unwilling to go over 16M per yr even before the money started running out in free agency to depress the market. As an article mentioned, a lot of players are forced to take lower contracts this summer because of the way the salary cap and offseason is shaking out.

We like to see prospects through rose-colored glasses, focusing on potential and youth, but you raise a very fair point that KCP may not have the versatility of other players.

[spaceballer]

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He will have to choose between a large salary, one year contract like Redick took, or a lower salary multiyear contract with security. At the very least, he will use the Lakers for leverage.

[moonpie]

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[moonpie]

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[MrDollarBills]

Smh....we should be on this kcp deal