The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

[MrDollarBills]

I'm about to make a Nets Defensive plays thread.

Anyone interested?

DO IT!!!

[MrDollarBills]

I like Crabbe and I think he's really making strides defensively to the point where I have no issue with him sliding to SF once DMC's time is up. It just becomes a matter of the fact that he isn't going to live up to the contract and it could impede the team cap wise.

That isn't his fault though, it isn't like someone forced Marks to take his contract on. Hopefully once the Nets get a summer's worth of work in with him and a full training camp we'll see some more added to his game overall and he becomes a major part of our rotation.

[kamaze]

People complain about his salary as if Marks didn't give him that contract both of them like him, Marks and Atkinson. Like someone said this is his first year he'll be even better after he gets more experience in the motion offense under his belt. All he did was stand in the corner off the bench for Portland cut him some slack.
If Brooklyn wants talent in free agency they have to overpay they were lucky they had a horrible player making waaay to much in Nicholson.

They're building something special this team is fun to watch more so than any other year in Brooklyn.

they could have paid someone else 1/3 of that to "get better in year two" it was an awful contract. no way around it. but thats on marks not crabbe.

But they didn't pay someone else..they wanted AC and that's who they got. He's a legitimate NBA player that makes $18 million a year. There's players that don't play making 8-$15 milli to wear a nice suit and tie and keep a seat warm on the bench. He's not consistent on the offensive side bc he's a reluctant shooter but he'll get better with time. He's already put forth the effort on defense give him credit for that at least
Kenny A. wants him to start a year from now AC will be a better player you can count on that. Kenny Atkinson is a damn good coach.

[kamaze]

Why not just address the basic issue is Crabbe worth $12 million a year? Why make it out like the cap impact of Crabbes trade is $19 mill per year when it's clearly not given that we got rid of Nicholsons $7 mill per year for three years contract, in the same trade

Crabbe makes 19 million and counts 19 million against the cap. assuming we couldnt dump 7 million per year any other way is kind of insane. at the very least would could have stretched it to 3.9 million We could have used the pick we got with Carroll to move it as well if needed. maybe even the philly second rounder. who knows.

Either way, crabbe counts 19 million vs the cap and will in the future as well. there is no scenario were he only counts 12 million vs the cap.

Do Okafor and Staukus make a combined negative 2.2 million because we shipped out Booker?

...So you'd rather pay for a player that can't even be a cheerleader on the bench...The stretch provision is a bad deal you pay millions for a player to go away but years later he still haunts the team bc he still is getting paid and it still counts against the cap. Remember Deron Williams? He's out of the league but they're still paying him $5 milli for the next two and a half years.

That's why you nitpicking about Crabbe's contract is a moot point Prok. This team won't be in the clear until the 2020 season they're paying Mozgov $15 milli a year also.

Marks was dealt a bad hand when he took the job but has done better than anyone expected. DMC has been a gem and he comes with a pick to boot.

AS long as the owner stays patient, this team can continue to build a good team through the draft. All it takes is patience.

If Prokhorov can't be patient you'll see more of the quick fix moves that are the reason for this being a bad team now.

I'm looking at you Mikhail Prokhorov don't put pressure on the GM to produce he already does it. He's doing a good job on his own.
The last regime was short sighted please stay away from basketball decisions , just sign the checks.
Brooklyn has a good GM and a good coach also they have a great coaching staff. Just give them time it will take years to rebuild properly. They can't skip steps in the NBA that's just how it works.

[treiz]

First of all the Portland and Washington trades are intimately connected because Nicholson is in both. Plus Bojan was basically worthless, no one was giving up value for a half a year rental of a guy leading the worst team in the league and Washington didn’t try to resign him. They knew he was walking away the whole time.

The reason you can’t compare Philly/Portland deals is because Portland has a semi competent front office while the colangelos are bumbling idiots. Portland also only had 2 picks (traded up) and made it clear that they were not using them to dump salary earlier in the offseason. Also Marks most likely had to convince Portland to take Nicholson, I bet they didn’t come to Marks with him in the deal, why would anyone? And it doesn’t matter if KCP was a better deal because it was 1 year, he wasn’t what Marks was looking for clearly. This is not a rent a criminal for one year type of organization.

Crabbe is absolutely more than 2.5x as productive as Nicholson because not only did Nicholson not give you a single thing on the court, he was a negative by wasting a roster spot. At least Crabbe has NBA quality skills. Nicholson only takes away by being terrible on offense and defense. We couldn’t even calculate how many times better Crabbe is since Nicholson is literally a zero or a negative.

I also never said we dumped Nicholson. I said we turned a wasted roster spot into a starter by paying 12 mill a year. That’s why I say it’s exactly like a FA signing. It’s actually better because Nicholson was worse than an empty roster spot.

Crabbe is a much better defender than Harris, the advanced stats prove it as well and so does the eye test. Albeit no one has pretty defensive stats on this team. But here’s the thing, I can remember multiple times where opposing stars have purposely forced switches on to Harris and then abused him, that doesn’t happen to Crabbe who’s out here blocking shots in crunch time, guarding multiple positions and grabbing defensive boards like a power forward. He truly is much better at the other parts of the game, much of it has to do with his superior length and athleticism but it’s also a skill.

And I don’t think it was unnecessary. It really wasn’t year 2 of our rebuild, it may have been year 2 of Marks but the Nets had been rebuilding/declining for 4 years depending on where you want to mark it. The thing is that the team has been so disappointing in Brooklyn, how can you blame them for trying to win in order to save face and not send another top 3 pick to Boston? (This was before Kyrie). Crabbe was a guy they already scouted and they were basically gonna get him and a 1st round pick for less money than if they had just signed him outright, it’s a win in the big picture.

Acy and Kilpatrick at least have NBA skills. Kilpatrick can shoot and score while Acy is a very switchable forward who (used to) shoot. Those guys will probably get multiple chances in the league, while Nicholson signed a deal in China like the day after he was waived and stretched. They’re all scrubs but Kilpatrick/Acy are at least NBA scrubs.

Let’s leave the sass and pettiness behind us.

It wasn't a 3-team trade, if it was the case then your point makes sense. It was 2 separate deals, just because a specific player is involved doesn't mean it's connected. It's like me saying the KG to Boston and the KG to Brooklyn trades are connected. Or the Gerald Wallace for the 5th pick and that infamous trade to the Celtics are connected. It's not, it's 2 separate deals, 2 horribly separate deals. What are you talking about? Bojan wasn't worthless, he was heavily sought after especially towards the trade deadline, in fact there came a point where Bojan had more value than Lopez. Yes he was a rental, but he was a cheap rental who could also be used as an expiring. Just look at Woj's tweets on this subject.

So what about the Toronto trade? Can you not use that for comparison then? They have a competent GM and we managed to swindle them too, if we decide to trade Carroll down the line, should we overpay because "we were already compensated" with the draft picks? That's ludicrous.

It didn't matter if they were saying they weren't going to trade their first rounders, at the end of the day they were in the luxury tax threshold and clearly didn't want to pay that. You make them give you a pick, you have the leverage, use it and if they don't want to trade the pick, hang up the phone and move on with your life, standing pat is not a bad move soemtimes. Likely had to convince them to take Nicholson? Huh? How else would they have salary relief without taking on a cheaper contract than Crabbe? The only option there was Nicholson, there wasn't any convincing needed, he was the ONLY option if they wanted salary relief. Quite frankly I didn't care for KCP, but for a one year deal, that was a decent gamble. At least if it goes bad, he's not here for long anyway.

Your opinion on Nicholson is based on what? 5 games? Crabbe is 2.5x better than Nicholson based on 5 games? Seriously? Did you forget that we are a fanbase who preaches patience and allowing players to play through mistakes? Did you forget how bad RHJ was when he first got here? What about Dinwiddie? Pure nonsense, at least be consistent.

Ok fair you might not have said it directly, while other surely did and that's been the narrative that's being talked about. But saying we "turned a wasted roster spot into a starter by paying 12 mill a year" you're communicating the same message because it's not just 12mil a year, it's 12 mil a year ON TOP of the 7mil a year we already owed to Nicholson. I seriously have no idea why you're trying to justify this trade by ignoring some key numbers.

What advanced stats do you use to show Crabbe is a much better defender than Harris? Please post the numbers, I really want to see this, I want you to back up your claim with some numbers. Besides eye test doesn't do the same either, not denying that Crabbe has performed better, but it's marginal at best, just because one has more length than the other doesn't mean they're a better defender. Defending is more than just athleticism, you know that right? So what if Harris gets abused at times, you make it seem like Crabbe has never gotten abused defensively, he too has had his fair share of poor defensive sequences, it's natural, especially when you're still progressing.

And so does Nicholson, you don't get drafted in the first round without having some semblance of NBA skills, you don't get the contract he got without showing some semblance of NBA skills. In fact it's arguable that Nicholson has showed more than both Acy and Kilpatrick combined in that one season that earned him his extension. So what if he got signed in China the day he got waived, you remember Jared Sullinger? And how everyone on this board wanted him instead of Zeller? Look at where he is now, and just as an added information, he signed in September. What does that say about him? I don't understand why you're trying to portray some sort of huge gap between the guys at the end of NBA benches (or according to you NBA scrubs) and guys playing abroad.

[treiz]

1. Marks didn't use any of the glaring leverage he had? Portland was desperate to get cap relief that's true. But are you forgetting they had three players (remember Meyers Leonard and Maurice Harkless) they could have dumped to achieve cap relief and of the three Crabbe was by far their most valuable player. Portland did not have to get rid of Crabbe for cap relief

2. KCP is a better deal.... I almost don't know how to respond to that. I will just say you should go speak to Lakers fan, they are so confused by Walton giving KCP 34 minutes a game that they are AC timely debate whether it is happening to butter up KCPs agent who is also Bron's agent? KCPs same terrible shot selection and bad FG percentages are still there, and I just don't see him improving

3. "He panicked because he wanted a shooter, and overpaid to get Crabbe." - are we really using the words panics with regard to Sean Marks. I would say Marks is capable of making mistakes. I would even say he plays it risky sometimes, but panic?. absolutely not . Are you forgetting this is the guy who got one of the best GMs in the League in Masai Ujiri to give up a 1st and a 2nd AND take on the friggin salary of Justin Hamilton In return for Nets agreeing to take a DeMarre Carroll.

1) And? He couldn't have used the fact that Portland were desperate? It's not like Portland were in an ok position and didn't have to make a move, they HAD to make this move in order to get under the tax threshold. Getting Crabbe, especially for the money he was being paid is simply not enough, they were the ones who needed the relief not us and frankly needed to sweeten the deal. Even Portland fans were amazed that they didn't have to give up a pick to get rid of Crabbe.

2) Well thank God for hindsight am I right? Like I said the only reason why I feel that KCP is a better deal is because it was only for 1-year. If it fails, cool, just cut bait and that's it, no strings attached. If Crabbe doesn't progress as well as we hope, then we're stuck on his contract for the next 3 years paying him $19m per.

3) He's only human, he's not perfect and he's allowed to make mistakes and panic too. He wanted a shooter, the FA period was winding down and he overpaid for Crabbe. That's the definition of a panic move. Just because he made other great trades doesn't mean he'll never do a bad trade, at the end of the day this is his first GM job and like Kenny and the players, he too is still progressing. But that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism.

There are some weird numbers being floated

Nicholson was not 7 million in dead money --he was 21 million in dead money

No one -- owners, organization etc-- actually cares that much how much money these guys are being paid, of course they care a little but it's the impact t on cap space that matters in terms of future decisions. This is what restricts future flexibility. And If cap space is what we are concerned about then yes the difference between Crabbes salary and Nicholsons is what is important. Nicholson counted $7 mill per year against cap, Crabbe counts $19 mill per year, so the net Cap impact of getting rid of Nicholson and getting instead Crabbe is $12 million per year

'"You think an early 20s first round pick is enough compensation for paying $19m per year for the next 3 years?"

No one is saying that -- we're saying a first round pick is worth about $20 million in dumped salary so getting rid of Nicholson s contact could be seen as being somewhat similar to getting a first round pick . And yeah I think the majority on this board were and are pretty clear that if we'd gotten a 1st round pick for Crabbe that would have been a good deal

---

Why not just address the basic issue is Crabbe worth $12 million a year? Why make it out like the cap impact of Crabbes trade is $19 mill per year when it's clearly not given that we got rid of Nicholsons $7 mill per year for three years contract, in the same trade

That was more directly quoted towards this quote from TheBrooklynKidd:

"And no we don’t deserve 2 1sts because Crabbe is not all dead money. Like I said it was a swap of equally overpaid players and we were already compensated for that wasted money with Washington’s 1st."

Already compensated? If it was a 3-team trade then yeah fair enough I agree, but it wasn't. It was 2 separate deals, and thus should be taken as separate entities.

Problem here is, we didn't just dump $20m in salary. That's the false equivalency I'm talking about, we picked an additional $36m to get of Nicholson and take Crabbe ON TOP of the $21m Nicholson was already making. So in essence for the 3 year, you're paying $47m just for an early 20s first round pick that we got from Washington.

Because he's not being paid $12m a year, he's being paid $19m a year. His cap impact is not $12m, it's AN ADDITIONAL $12m a year on top of the $7m. It's completely different than the picture you're trying to portray. That's like me saying Paul George's cap impact is -$4.5m after his trade to OKC since George makes $19m and Oladipo and Sabonis combined is about $23.5m. But that's not true, his impact on the cap is that $19m he makes. There's no conceivable scenario where George's cap impact -$4.5m.

Also, with all of this talk of dead money, I find it bizarre how Crabbe isn't being talked about as dead money. If Nicholson was $7m in dead money, Crabbe has got to be at least $5m in dead money. Yes he is playing, but he isn't playing like the $19m per year he currently makes.

[treiz]

Why not just address the basic issue is Crabbe worth $12 million a year? Why make it out like the cap impact of Crabbes trade is $19 mill per year when it's clearly not given that we got rid of Nicholsons $7 mill per year for three years contract, in the same trade

Crabbe makes 19 million and counts 19 million against the cap. assuming we couldnt dump 7 million per year any other way is kind of insane. at the very least would could have stretched it to 3.9 million We could have used the pick we got with Carroll to move it as well if needed. maybe even the philly second rounder. who knows.

Either way, crabbe counts 19 million vs the cap and will in the future as well. there is no scenario were he only counts 12 million vs the cap.

Do Okafor and Staukus make a combined negative 2.2 million because we shipped out Booker?

Seriously, this is so straightforward. I don't understand why guys are trying to jump up through hoops with these bizarre calculations.

[Prokorov]

But they didn't pay someone else..they wanted AC and that's who they got. He's a legitimate NBA player that makes $18 million a year. There's players that don't play making 8-$15 milli to wear a nice suit and tie and keep a seat warm on the bench. He's not consistent on the offensive side bc he's a reluctant shooter but he'll get better with time. He's already put forth the effort on defense give him credit for that at least
Kenny A. wants him to start a year from now AC will be a better player you can count on that. Kenny Atkinson is a damn good coach.

So since there are guys who make money that dont even play that makes it ok to drastically overplay a bench role guy like crabbe when you can get the same thing for 1/3 the price and already have the same guy in harris on the team making the minimum?

Also, how is crabbe a "reluctant shooter?" he is 14th in the entire league in 3-point attempts per game. he is not consistent on the offensive side because he lacks offensive ability outside of catch and shoot (poor ball handler, pull up/floater/finisher no post game)... and the other thing is he takes almost 7 threes a game... on that volume only great/elite shooters will be consistent. he is a very good shooter, but not an elite/great one (topped 40% from deep just 1 year)

Kenny A. wants him to start a year from now AC will be a better player you can count on that. Kenny Atkinson is a damn good coach.

Kenny is a great coach. Crabbe is a hard worker. unfortunately it takes a ton more to turn a bench role guy into an allstar. if he gets better he is still drastically overpaid. he would need to get 4 or 5 times better. not sure thats realistic.

This isnt some christian youth league where they dont keep score and as long as everyone has fun its all peachy.... contracts matter, production matters, the cap matters...

[steady]

Why not just address the basic issue is Crabbe worth $12 million a year? Why make it out like the cap impact of Crabbes trade is $19 mill per year when it's clearly not given that we got rid of Nicholsons $7 mill per year for three years contract, in the same trade

Crabbe makes 19 million and counts 19 million against the cap. assuming we couldnt dump 7 million per year any other way is kind of insane. at the very least would could have stretched it to 3.9 million We could have used the pick we got with Carroll to move it as well if needed. maybe even the philly second rounder. who knows.

Either way, crabbe counts 19 million vs the cap and will in the future as well. there is no scenario were he only counts 12 million vs the cap.

Do Okafor and Staukus make a combined negative 2.2 million because we shipped out Booker?

Seriously, this is so straightforward. I don't understand why guys are trying to jump up through hoops with these bizarre calculations.

Treiz - I'm thinking the same thing over here . And I respect your posts including these in which you are straight out disagreeing with me - because I can see you are thinking it through. Even though your reaching a crazy wrong conclusion from how I see things

Let me just ask you -- hypothetically - do you think it would be worth having Crabbe if he only took up $12 million of cap space?. Im really curious..

For me the fact that he's in a shooting slump is the least of my worries. His shooting will most likely come back. The improvements he's made in defense and other areas that Atkinson has asked him to work on, is what speaks volumes to me. Even if he's looking bad and awkward as hell out there sometimes he's evolving his game. -- he's moving forward. Just as RHJ did, just as LeVert did. I love that our defense was the biggest factor in our win against Wolves. Kenny said things like it was defense, resilience, mental and physical toughness. And Crabbe was a part of that.

[Prokorov]

Treiz - I'm thinking the same thing over here . And I respect your posts including these in which you are straight out disagreeing with me - because I can see you are thinking it through. Even though your reaching a crazy wrong conclusion from how I see things

Let me just ask you -- hypothetically - do you think it would be worth having Crabbe if he only took up $12 million of cap space?. Im really curious..

It would certainly be alot easier to swallow. i think at 8-10million id be more ok with it but still have the same issue that harris could give us the same for 1.5 million. but at 12 million i wouldnt have complained much. 19 million is just absurd

For me the fact that he's in a shooting slump is the least of my worries. His shooting will most likely come back. The improvements he's made in defense and other areas that Atkinson has asked him to work on, is what speaks volumes to me. Even if he's looking bad and awkward as hell out there sometimes he's evolving his game. -- he's moving forward. Just as RHJ did, just as LeVert did. I love that our defense was the biggest factor in our win against Wolves. Kenny said things like it was defense, resilience, mental and physical toughness. And Crabbe was a part of that.

What makes you say he is in a shooting slump? Th 36% from three is realistically what you should expect with the increased volume and less corner/catch and shoot threes. 36-39% would seem about right and inline with his career averages.

the 44% last year was an outlier, came on hald the volume and a high portion came on corner or stand still catch and shoot situations. its unlikely we ever see anything near 44% from crabbe in his current role.

he needs to become a scorer. if he doesnt you simply cant have him on the roster at that price

[kamaze]

But they didn't pay someone else..they wanted AC and that's who they got. He's a legitimate NBA player that makes $18 million a year. There's players that don't play making 8-$15 milli to wear a nice suit and tie and keep a seat warm on the bench. He's not consistent on the offensive side bc he's a reluctant shooter but he'll get better with time. He's already put forth the effort on defense give him credit for that at least
Kenny A. wants him to start a year from now AC will be a better player you can count on that. Kenny Atkinson is a damn good coach.

So since there are guys who make money that dont even play that makes it ok to drastically overplay a bench role guy like crabbe when you can get the same thing for 1/3 the price and already have the same guy in harris on the team making the minimum?

Also, how is crabbe a "reluctant shooter?" he is 14th in the entire league in 3-point attempts per game. he is not consistent on the offensive side because he lacks offensive ability outside of catch and shoot (poor ball handler, pull up/floater/finisher no post game)... and the other thing is he takes almost 7 threes a game... on that volume only great/elite shooters will be consistent. he is a very good shooter, but not an elite/great one (topped 40% from deep just 1 year)

Kenny A. wants him to start a year from now AC will be a better player you can count on that. Kenny Atkinson is a damn good coach.

Kenny is a great coach. Crabbe is a hard worker. unfortunately it takes a ton more to turn a bench role guy into an allstar. if he gets better he is still drastically overpaid. he would need to get 4 or 5 times better. not sure thats realistic.

This isnt some christian youth league where they dont keep score and as long as everyone has fun its all peachy.... contracts matter, production matters, the cap matters...

Showing that it happens all the time.

Next time I post in the game thread I'll point out when he should shoot. Caris is aggressive so is Dinwiddie he'll get more comfortable with time he's a good player. I'm not going to act like I know why the shots don't go in sometimes they're on point just a little off again he'll get better.

[kamaze]

Kenny A. wants him to start a year from now AC will be a better player you can count on that. Kenny Atkinson is a damn good coach.

Kenny is a great coach. Crabbe is a hard worker. unfortunately it takes a ton more to turn a bench role guy into an allstar. if he gets better he is still drastically overpaid. he would need to get 4 or 5 times better. not sure thats realistic.

This isnt some christian youth league where they dont keep score and as long as everyone has fun its all peachy.... contracts matter, production matters, the cap matters...

Brooklyn runs a motion offense that's based on ball movement they don't go through one player like most teams do. The ball movement was a thing of beauty in the last game, it wasn't just the backup point guard attacking the rim and dumping it off to JA; which is a great it's just a lack of getting everyone involved. Sauce and Husslin' Harris got more touches it was more of a 'make the extra pass' game which resulted in a win! The crowd was into it.

[treiz]

Treiz - I'm thinking the same thing over here . And I respect your posts including these in which you are straight out disagreeing with me - because I can see you are thinking it through. Even though your reaching a crazy wrong conclusion from how I see things

Let me just ask you -- hypothetically - do you think it would be worth having Crabbe if he only took up $12 million of cap space?. Im really curious..

For me the fact that he's in a shooting slump is the least of my worries. His shooting will most likely come back. The improvements he's made in defense and other areas that Atkinson has asked him to work on, is what speaks volumes to me. Even if he's looking bad and awkward as hell out there sometimes he's evolving his game. -- he's moving forward. Just as RHJ did, just as LeVert did. I love that our defense was the biggest factor in our win against Wolves. Kenny said things like it was defense, resilience, mental and physical toughness. And Crabbe was a part of that.

Huh? It's so simple, his salary is $19m, therefore his cap hit is $19m. That's all there is to it. What's crazy is people trying to overcomplicate this and pretend that he somehow saves us $7m a year despite it not showing up anywhere in the salary book. If that was the case, his salary and his cap impact would literally be $0, that's the only way he would've saved us $7m and for it to show in the books.

I don't care if he is or not in a shooting slump, he's trying to expand his game and he's putting in the work on the defensive end. We've seen this type of coaching before from Kenny with RHJ, Spencer and Levert. He will make a ton of mistakes and Kenny is letting him make it hoping that with some film time and coaching he'll adapt and progress, but the caveat is he has to work on the defensive end. This will take time to materialise, but this approach has already yielded results. Maybe not to the point where he becomes worthy of his pay, but if he can get close, we can at least try and shift him to another team desperate for shooting.

[MGrand15]

It seems that everything with this team is about development until it comes to Crabbe. Then all we care about is production - no matter the injuries forcing him to take a larger role than expected

[MrDollarBills]

the contract number is what causes this. i've already given up on him living up to the contract. I just want him to add something to his offensive toolset and continue to play hard defensively. I think the guy gets dumped on a bit too much. He needs to play better, but there's clearly a lack of patience when it comes to him.

[treiz]

the contract number is what causes this. i've already given up on him living up to the contract. I just want him to add something to his offensive toolset and continue to play hard defensively. I think the guy gets dumped on a bit too much. He needs to play better, but there's clearly a lack of patience when it comes to him.

It seems that everything with this team is about development until it comes to Crabbe. Then all we care about is production - no matter the injuries forcing him to take a larger role than expected

Of course, because he's being paid to produce now and to a high level (like an all-star) and he isn't. Yes there's progression but he needs to do more considering that he's the highest paid player on the team. Why does that sound outrageous?

The difference between him and say Allen/Russell/RHJ/Okafar/Levert and why there's a lot more patience with them and why we should demand production now, is because they're not severely overpaid and hindering our future cap space.

[MGrand15]

the contract number is what causes this. i've already given up on him living up to the contract. I just want him to add something to his offensive toolset and continue to play hard defensively. I think the guy gets dumped on a bit too much. He needs to play better, but there's clearly a lack of patience when it comes to him.

It seems that everything with this team is about development until it comes to Crabbe. Then all we care about is production - no matter the injuries forcing him to take a larger role than expected

Of course, because he's being paid to produce now and to a high level (like an all-star) and he isn't. Yes there's progression but he needs to do more considering that he's the highest paid player on the team. Why does that sound outrageous?

The difference between him and say Allen/Russell/RHJ/Okafar/Levert and why there's a lot more patience with them and why we should demand production now, is because they're not severely overpaid and hindering our future cap space.

It's outrageous because he had the same contract last year and didn't play like an all star. Expecting him to do that here with absolutely no track record of all star play is a little strange. From the moment he got here, the team understood he was a work in progress.

At the beginning of the year, Kenny said the goal was to develop him into a good starter. If the team was 100% healthy, there's a solid chance he'd be coming off the bench to start.

We're also ignoring the fact that were missing our two lead guards and arguably our two best players. Russell and Lin. Crabbe is always gonna be a guy that plays better when the team is better.

I think if we can preach development and patience and how failure is good for the team, we can wait and see how Crabbe progresses.

[treiz]

It's outrageous because he had the same contract last year and didn't play like an all star. Expecting him to do that here with absolutely no track record of all star play is a little strange. From the moment he got here, the team understood he was a work in progress.

At the beginning of the year, Kenny said the goal was to develop him into a good starter. If the team was 100% healthy, there's a solid chance he'd be coming off the bench to start.

We're also ignoring the fact that were missing our two lead guards and arguably our two best players. Russell and Lin. Crabbe is always gonna be a guy that plays better when the team is better.

I think if we can preach development and patience and how failure is good for the team, we can wait and see how Crabbe progresses.

Doesn't matter what he did last year, he wasn't here. He wasn't affecting our cap then but it is now. Although he's shown progress, it's not good enough I think you, me and everyone on this board agrees with me on that. Now it's not his fault he got paid that money, but when you are, there are expectations and on a much smaller timescale compared to some of our core pieces especially since that trade didn't come with anything else, so the burden is all on him.

Him starting on the bench has nothing to do with anything, as long as he got 28-30mpg that's what matters.

And I agree about preaching patience and development, the problem is because of how he affects our flexibility his leash is a lot shorter compared to the others and we need to start seeing impact much sooner rather than later. Although yes he's progressed, he's not showing anywhere near the improvements and progress of Dinwiddie, Levert, Allen or RHJ (and even Russell to a degree, although small sample).

[Claud]

Losing Joe Harris because Marks wanted Crabbe will be a tough pill to swallow.

I think Crabbe has been better defensively than expected but he is super inconsistent with his offensive game.

The reason he shot a high % in Portland is because he didn't have to take many shots with CJ and Dame around.

Now we are asking him to become an efficient volume shooter but since he has zero handles & no playmaking-skills... nights of 2-11 or 4-11fg have become the norm this season.

I have faith in our coaching staff but it will take a LOT of work to make Crabbe worth his contract.

Right now he isn't cutting it but we'll see how he evolves within the next 2 years.

[MrDollarBills]

I think that Crabbe being better defensively than Harris could benefit us more in the long run.