Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
TheNetsFan wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:brook wrote:I'm Italian, so obviously I'm Happy if the Nets draft Donte DiVincenzo
You guys think he can be a good choice with #29 pick?
I would welcome him. He fits right into the system and he competes.
I would sign up for Donte right now, but I' be surprised if he lasts until #29
IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:You essentially have
DLO, Spencer, Caris, Lin (pg)
Crabbe, Harris (SG)
Potentially, alot of these 6 can overlap multiple positions...
However, the nets have zero depth in big man.
Even without adding another guard, the rotation is going to screw over 1-2 players, but imagine if you add another guard....
Team is going to have to trade at least 2 players out of those 6 if they draft a guard because all those prospects are upperclassman that are ready now.
It doesnt matter if we have zero depth at big man -- we are in talent acquisition mode, not win now mode. Further cant really expect the #29 pick to be some huge impact bigman/role player. odds are they are a mediocure backup no better then what you can get on the cheap in free agency
you take the most talented guy, regardless of position
as far as the logjam at gaurd and "screwing guys over". that is a non issue as well. Lin is a 30 year old coming off 2 lost seasons to injury an has 1 year left. he isnt in the plans, if he sits he sits. dinwiddie may be healthy and younger, but again, has 1 year left and likely isnt worth a big deal.
Levert/DLo are the future at the position or at least the guys we need to give the minutes to and evaluate if they are. also, the guy we d raft at #29 may not get minutes and may not even play much in the NBA this year and may end up in the Dleague. this isnt some lotto pick star we are getting.
team doesnt need to make trades but they can if one helps. you sit lin an dinwiddies minutes get cut into for levert/Dlo being starters andd getting more minutes this year, similar to last year. if the rookie plays his way into the rotation thats a GOOD thing.
but Lin is an old injured lame duck and dinwiddie is a lame duck himself.
So, what are you going to say when Kenny appoints him as a starter......
Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:
It doesnt matter if we have zero depth at big man -- we are in talent acquisition mode, not win now mode. Further cant really expect the #29 pick to be some huge impact bigman/role player. odds are they are a mediocure backup no better then what you can get on the cheap in free agency
you take the most talented guy, regardless of position
as far as the logjam at gaurd and "screwing guys over". that is a non issue as well. Lin is a 30 year old coming off 2 lost seasons to injury an has 1 year left. he isnt in the plans, if he sits he sits. dinwiddie may be healthy and younger, but again, has 1 year left and likely isnt worth a big deal.
Levert/DLo are the future at the position or at least the guys we need to give the minutes to and evaluate if they are. also, the guy we d raft at #29 may not get minutes and may not even play much in the NBA this year and may end up in the Dleague. this isnt some lotto pick star we are getting.
team doesnt need to make trades but they can if one helps. you sit lin an dinwiddies minutes get cut into for levert/Dlo being starters andd getting more minutes this year, similar to last year. if the rookie plays his way into the rotation thats a GOOD thing.
but Lin is an old injured lame duck and dinwiddie is a lame duck himself.
So, what are you going to say when Kenny appoints him as a starter......
who?
IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:
So, what are you going to say when Kenny appoints him as a starter......
who?
Lin obviously.
MrDollarBills wrote:IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:
who?
Lin obviously.
Why would Lin be penciled in automatically as a starter at PG with Russell, Dinwiddie, and LeVert ahead of him?
why don't you just cut the bull **** and tell us what your previous screen name was on here before you got banned? because your agenda is quite clear.
IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:
So, what are you going to say when Kenny appoints him as a starter......
who?
Lin obviously.
IcyVeins wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:IcyVeins wrote:
Lin obviously.
Why would Lin be penciled in automatically as a starter at PG with Russell, Dinwiddie, and LeVert ahead of him?
why don't you just cut the bull **** and tell us what your previous screen name was on here before you got banned? because your agenda is quite clear.
Logic is not your friend sadly....
I never wanted LIn to start... I WANTED DLO TO START . HENCE, WHY I ALWAYS SAID KENNY DID NOT PREFER HIM AS A 1.
Are you really that dumb...
Lin was injured most of last season as well and still was pencil in as a starter... LIN was also captain of the team and along with Carroll the only relevant vet. JUST LIKE Hayward, you really think Stevens is not going to start GH because of his injury and go forward with Brown and/or tatum instead....
Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:
who?
Lin obviously.
Lin may get bought out, let alone be a starter. There really is no role for him other then bench player-coach. a 30 year old coming off 2 losts seasons, 4th talented PG on the roster who is a lame duck who is a free agent at years end. no chance he starts.
as far as what would i say if kenny started him? id say kenny needs to be fired.
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
vincecarter4pres wrote:Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:
Lin obviously.
Lin may get bought out, let alone be a starter. There really is no role for him other then bench player-coach. a 30 year old coming off 2 losts seasons, 4th talented PG on the roster who is a lame duck who is a free agent at years end. no chance he starts.
as far as what would i say if kenny started him? id say kenny needs to be fired.
I'll be honest, this seems more like what you want to happen and not necessarily what will happen. I still feel like there's a good chance Lin starts the season as a starter if he's actually fully recovered and looks good.
I think he will help D-Lo in his development in that role and if he doesn't, either Lin was a shell of himself and not respected(rightfully so), or D-Lo is a lost cause. And even if he comes off the bench, which is more likely, he will come off early and probably always play in sets next to one of D or Caris.
You also have to look at it as a good faith move for future free agents.
On top of all this, even if he looks healthy and spry, he will be on a minutes limit, whether he starts or not. I doubt anything over 18mpg to begin.
And I think they(Marks, Kenny, Langdon) are all thinking this as well.
I see almost no scenario where he's bought out, it literally makes no sense. Even if he is shelved because he's toast, or he gets re-injured, etc., he's still an expiring contract and you never know what moves come up during the season. They aren't going to sacrifice transaction flexibility for no apparent reason. And if he can play like his old self, he will play, in some form, though again, on a steadily but only slightly increasing minutes limit.
We may want them to, but this team isn't going to intentionally tank.
They will tank because we made moves for the future this draft which takes away wins this season because of who was outgoing.
They will tank naturally because there still just isn't a ton of talent on this roster overall and there are still injury concerns.
They will tank cause guys are still young.
But they will strive to be competitive.
If they do little to this roster other than somehow add a pick in the teens only sacrificing Dinwiddie, some cap for a year or 2 and the 29... if they have some better health overall... if any of these young guys make another big jump... even though we have no chance at the playoffs or a big win total, it's still likely we win somewhere in the low 30's this year... which tbh sucks.
That's why I'm always with you, even if it's my favorite current Net, LeVert, even if it's the ever improving RHJ, even if it isn't much of value for D, I'm hoping they make big moves to deal for picks and the such. Grab a high pick or 2 somehow, clear out the roster, be as competitive as you can be with the players you then have and snag a top 7 pick in the 2019 draft and go from there.
I think some on ND and even here are confusing Marks saying they will be competitive with making stupid minor improvements, capping out and getting stuck on a treadmill. Although I doubt and hope that isn't what they will do, I think Marks still sees the big picture and he's just saying they won't put on a Philly style atrocity on purpose, or even the 12-70 Nets style tank. But what he's not saying is, they won't make a move out of fear of losing W's in the column.
But again, all that said, there's only so bad you can be if you do have quality, starter caliber young guys. Also only so good you can be, but still, I digress.
Prokorov wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:Prokorov wrote:
Lin may get bought out, let alone be a starter. There really is no role for him other then bench player-coach. a 30 year old coming off 2 losts seasons, 4th talented PG on the roster who is a lame duck who is a free agent at years end. no chance he starts.
as far as what would i say if kenny started him? id say kenny needs to be fired.
I'll be honest, this seems more like what you want to happen and not necessarily what will happen. I still feel like there's a good chance Lin starts the season as a starter if he's actually fully recovered and looks good.
I think he will help D-Lo in his development in that role and if he doesn't, either Lin was a shell of himself and not respected(rightfully so), or D-Lo is a lost cause. And even if he comes off the bench, which is more likely, he will come off early and probably always play in sets next to one of D or Caris.
You also have to look at it as a good faith move for future free agents.
On top of all this, even if he looks healthy and spry, he will be on a minutes limit, whether he starts or not. I doubt anything over 18mpg to begin.
And I think they(Marks, Kenny, Langdon) are all thinking this as well.
I see almost no scenario where he's bought out, it literally makes no sense. Even if he is shelved because he's toast, or he gets re-injured, etc., he's still an expiring contract and you never know what moves come up during the season. They aren't going to sacrifice transaction flexibility for no apparent reason. And if he can play like his old self, he will play, in some form, though again, on a steadily but only slightly increasing minutes limit.
We may want them to, but this team isn't going to intentionally tank.
They will tank because we made moves for the future this draft which takes away wins this season because of who was outgoing.
They will tank naturally because there still just isn't a ton of talent on this roster overall and there are still injury concerns.
They will tank cause guys are still young.
But they will strive to be competitive.
If they do little to this roster other than somehow add a pick in the teens only sacrificing Dinwiddie, some cap for a year or 2 and the 29... if they have some better health overall... if any of these young guys make another big jump... even though we have no chance at the playoffs or a big win total, it's still likely we win somewhere in the low 30's this year... which tbh sucks.
That's why I'm always with you, even if it's my favorite current Net, LeVert, even if it's the ever improving RHJ, even if it isn't much of value for D, I'm hoping they make big moves to deal for picks and the such. Grab a high pick or 2 somehow, clear out the roster, be as competitive as you can be with the players you then have and snag a top 7 pick in the 2019 draft and go from there.
I think some on ND and even here are confusing Marks saying they will be competitive with making stupid minor improvements, capping out and getting stuck on a treadmill. Although I doubt and hope that isn't what they will do, I think Marks still sees the big picture and he's just saying they won't put on a Philly style atrocity on purpose, or even the 12-70 Nets style tank. But what he's not saying is, they won't make a move out of fear of losing W's in the column.
But again, all that said, there's only so bad you can be if you do have quality, starter caliber young guys. Also only so good you can be, but still, I digress.
Buying out Lin wouldnt be about tanking, it would be about freeing up the few million needed if marks wants to make a run at Gordon or Parker or Favors. at some point, you need to put the teams future over being super loyal... just like we saw with Trevor Booker being traded. im sure if they buyout lin, it will be on good terms, they wont sand bag him. but if they think they have a realistic shot at aaron gordon, this is a move marks would make for sure. we saw with young, booker, that he will trade super high charecter guys they love if its best for the teams future.
as far as "there is only so bad you can be with starter caliber young guys" id point to the wolves who were awful prior to this year despite elite young players all over the roster.
i dont think marks will tank, i think the opposite. i think he will overpay for young talent and take on awful salary for assets.... As has been his MO since coming here (Crabbe, Bazemore, TJ, Porter.... Carroll, Mozgov)
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
vincecarter4pres wrote:Prokorov wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:I'll be honest, this seems more like what you want to happen and not necessarily what will happen. I still feel like there's a good chance Lin starts the season as a starter if he's actually fully recovered and looks good.
I think he will help D-Lo in his development in that role and if he doesn't, either Lin was a shell of himself and not respected(rightfully so), or D-Lo is a lost cause. And even if he comes off the bench, which is more likely, he will come off early and probably always play in sets next to one of D or Caris.
You also have to look at it as a good faith move for future free agents.
On top of all this, even if he looks healthy and spry, he will be on a minutes limit, whether he starts or not. I doubt anything over 18mpg to begin.
And I think they(Marks, Kenny, Langdon) are all thinking this as well.
I see almost no scenario where he's bought out, it literally makes no sense. Even if he is shelved because he's toast, or he gets re-injured, etc., he's still an expiring contract and you never know what moves come up during the season. They aren't going to sacrifice transaction flexibility for no apparent reason. And if he can play like his old self, he will play, in some form, though again, on a steadily but only slightly increasing minutes limit.
We may want them to, but this team isn't going to intentionally tank.
They will tank because we made moves for the future this draft which takes away wins this season because of who was outgoing.
They will tank naturally because there still just isn't a ton of talent on this roster overall and there are still injury concerns.
They will tank cause guys are still young.
But they will strive to be competitive.
If they do little to this roster other than somehow add a pick in the teens only sacrificing Dinwiddie, some cap for a year or 2 and the 29... if they have some better health overall... if any of these young guys make another big jump... even though we have no chance at the playoffs or a big win total, it's still likely we win somewhere in the low 30's this year... which tbh sucks.
That's why I'm always with you, even if it's my favorite current Net, LeVert, even if it's the ever improving RHJ, even if it isn't much of value for D, I'm hoping they make big moves to deal for picks and the such. Grab a high pick or 2 somehow, clear out the roster, be as competitive as you can be with the players you then have and snag a top 7 pick in the 2019 draft and go from there.
I think some on ND and even here are confusing Marks saying they will be competitive with making stupid minor improvements, capping out and getting stuck on a treadmill. Although I doubt and hope that isn't what they will do, I think Marks still sees the big picture and he's just saying they won't put on a Philly style atrocity on purpose, or even the 12-70 Nets style tank. But what he's not saying is, they won't make a move out of fear of losing W's in the column.
But again, all that said, there's only so bad you can be if you do have quality, starter caliber young guys. Also only so good you can be, but still, I digress.
Buying out Lin wouldnt be about tanking, it would be about freeing up the few million needed if marks wants to make a run at Gordon or Parker or Favors. at some point, you need to put the teams future over being super loyal... just like we saw with Trevor Booker being traded. im sure if they buyout lin, it will be on good terms, they wont sand bag him. but if they think they have a realistic shot at aaron gordon, this is a move marks would make for sure. we saw with young, booker, that he will trade super high charecter guys they love if its best for the teams future.
as far as "there is only so bad you can be with starter caliber young guys" id point to the wolves who were awful prior to this year despite elite young players all over the roster.
i dont think marks will tank, i think the opposite. i think he will overpay for young talent and take on awful salary for assets.... As has been his MO since coming here (Crabbe, Bazemore, TJ, Porter.... Carroll, Mozgov)
I just hope he doesn't trade for Wiggins. I don't see this immense upside and he's guaranteed too much money for too long, it just makes everything messy. The cap, the roster fits in current form and more importantly going forward, who they target in drafts, free agency, trades, etc., I just do not like the idea of him, even on a "steal" of a deal, such as Wiggins for Mozgod and Lin.
shakendfries wrote:
Prokorov wrote:shakendfries wrote:
Bamba is the guy in this draft for me. for me its him or Doncic as the #1 guy and really only cause i dont know just how great doncic is being an overseas dude.
But this is depressing, since from the sounds of it ainge is going to move up to draft this kid. and then they have him and Semi my 2 favorite guys from the past 2 drafts for years to come. i do get to see them play living in boston but ugg... stomach punch.
The guy is the best defender we've seen since Gobert, and is quick, agile, athletic, and shoots threes. guy is a friggin unicorn. id easily move RHJ/Allen/Levert and 2019 top 5 protected for him. and i know people love allen but..
Allen is a smaller, slower, weaker, less athletic, less skilled Mo Bamba. chew on that. imagine if allen grew 2 inches, added 7 inches to his wingspan, suddenly became faster end to end the John Wall (bamba timed ebtter then wall at the combine) and started hitting threes more fequently... oh and also adde 6 inches to his verticle.
Bamba is going to be a god darned BEAST!
Prokorov wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:Prokorov wrote:
Buying out Lin wouldnt be about tanking, it would be about freeing up the few million needed if marks wants to make a run at Gordon or Parker or Favors. at some point, you need to put the teams future over being super loyal... just like we saw with Trevor Booker being traded. im sure if they buyout lin, it will be on good terms, they wont sand bag him. but if they think they have a realistic shot at aaron gordon, this is a move marks would make for sure. we saw with young, booker, that he will trade super high charecter guys they love if its best for the teams future.
as far as "there is only so bad you can be with starter caliber young guys" id point to the wolves who were awful prior to this year despite elite young players all over the roster.
i dont think marks will tank, i think the opposite. i think he will overpay for young talent and take on awful salary for assets.... As has been his MO since coming here (Crabbe, Bazemore, TJ, Porter.... Carroll, Mozgov)
I just hope he doesn't trade for Wiggins. I don't see this immense upside and he's guaranteed too much money for too long, it just makes everything messy. The cap, the roster fits in current form and more importantly going forward, who they target in drafts, free agency, trades, etc., I just do not like the idea of him, even on a "steal" of a deal, such as Wiggins for Mozgod and Lin.
Yeah, id be really iffy on a wiggins deal. i could swallow Jabari Parker... could live with Aaron Gordon, especially if RHJ was traded for picks. Favors not so much since i think his value is at center. but wiggins would be below all those guys for me, but a big margin to the point where i really question marks and spend most of my time explaining to sunshiner homers that wiggins isnt some star player.
but something like...
buyout Lin, trade carroll for 50-75% expiring money and 2 seconds. Make a max offer to Aaron Gordon, trade RHJ to Denver for #14 and Faried and a future second. Draft Zhaire Smith at 14.... (or move up 2 or 3 spots with #29 to get him):
DLo | Levert | Crabbe | Gordon | Allen
Dinwiddie | Z. Smith | Harris | Acy
Thats a team id be excited for and a really fun team to watch. Gordon/Smith/Allen dunkfest 24/7. even though i think gordon is maybe a 2time career all-star and not worth the money its probably a move marks would make and id be okay with it.
thats also a 9 man rotation with 8 guys who shoot it 35% or better from three plus allen working on his corner 3
shakendfries wrote:Prokorov wrote:shakendfries wrote:
Bamba is the guy in this draft for me. for me its him or Doncic as the #1 guy and really only cause i dont know just how great doncic is being an overseas dude.
But this is depressing, since from the sounds of it ainge is going to move up to draft this kid. and then they have him and Semi my 2 favorite guys from the past 2 drafts for years to come. i do get to see them play living in boston but ugg... stomach punch.
The guy is the best defender we've seen since Gobert, and is quick, agile, athletic, and shoots threes. guy is a friggin unicorn. id easily move RHJ/Allen/Levert and 2019 top 5 protected for him. and i know people love allen but..
Allen is a smaller, slower, weaker, less athletic, less skilled Mo Bamba. chew on that. imagine if allen grew 2 inches, added 7 inches to his wingspan, suddenly became faster end to end the John Wall (bamba timed ebtter then wall at the combine) and started hitting threes more fequently... oh and also adde 6 inches to his verticle.
Bamba is going to be a god darned BEAST!
Bamba is a great prospect - and that wingspan projects him to be the Giannis of NBA centers, but let's pump the breaks on Allen being unimpressive. Allen has better footwork, better hands, is quicker off the ground for catching lobs, actually has an offensive bag of post moves, and can actually shoot. I mean, the rookie gave Embiid 16 & 12 - watch 1:12
There's something in the water Shaka Smart has been giving the centers at Texas...Bamba, Allen, and Myles Turner.
Mikal Bridges is another prospect with high defensive BBIQ
IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:I just hope he doesn't trade for Wiggins. I don't see this immense upside and he's guaranteed too much money for too long, it just makes everything messy. The cap, the roster fits in current form and more importantly going forward, who they target in drafts, free agency, trades, etc., I just do not like the idea of him, even on a "steal" of a deal, such as Wiggins for Mozgod and Lin.
Yeah, id be really iffy on a wiggins deal. i could swallow Jabari Parker... could live with Aaron Gordon, especially if RHJ was traded for picks. Favors not so much since i think his value is at center. but wiggins would be below all those guys for me, but a big margin to the point where i really question marks and spend most of my time explaining to sunshiner homers that wiggins isnt some star player.
but something like...
buyout Lin, trade carroll for 50-75% expiring money and 2 seconds. Make a max offer to Aaron Gordon, trade RHJ to Denver for #14 and Faried and a future second. Draft Zhaire Smith at 14.... (or move up 2 or 3 spots with #29 to get him):
DLo | Levert | Crabbe | Gordon | Allen
Dinwiddie | Z. Smith | Harris | Acy
Thats a team id be excited for and a really fun team to watch. Gordon/Smith/Allen dunkfest 24/7. even though i think gordon is maybe a 2time career all-star and not worth the money its probably a move marks would make and id be okay with it.
thats also a 9 man rotation with 8 guys who shoot it 35% or better from three plus allen working on his corner 3
Buying out Lin is your wet dream though....
it's like posters here that think Carroll and Spencer will fetch mid first round picks.....
Anything is possible, but I'm sure you and I both know the odds of that happening is very rare. Unless, LIN is demoted so back and wants to start/play, I really dont see how and why they would buy him out.
Prokorov wrote:IcyVeins wrote:Prokorov wrote:
Yeah, id be really iffy on a wiggins deal. i could swallow Jabari Parker... could live with Aaron Gordon, especially if RHJ was traded for picks. Favors not so much since i think his value is at center. but wiggins would be below all those guys for me, but a big margin to the point where i really question marks and spend most of my time explaining to sunshiner homers that wiggins isnt some star player.
but something like...
buyout Lin, trade carroll for 50-75% expiring money and 2 seconds. Make a max offer to Aaron Gordon, trade RHJ to Denver for #14 and Faried and a future second. Draft Zhaire Smith at 14.... (or move up 2 or 3 spots with #29 to get him):
DLo | Levert | Crabbe | Gordon | Allen
Dinwiddie | Z. Smith | Harris | Acy
Thats a team id be excited for and a really fun team to watch. Gordon/Smith/Allen dunkfest 24/7. even though i think gordon is maybe a 2time career all-star and not worth the money its probably a move marks would make and id be okay with it.
thats also a 9 man rotation with 8 guys who shoot it 35% or better from three plus allen working on his corner 3
Buying out Lin is your wet dream though....
it's like posters here that think Carroll and Spencer will fetch mid first round picks.....
Anything is possible, but I'm sure you and I both know the odds of that happening is very rare. Unless, LIN is demoted so back and wants to start/play, I really dont see how and why they would buy him out.
They would buy him out because without doing so (or trading him with at least 25% cap relief via that trade) we wouldnt be able to make a big enough offer to RFAs like aaron gordon. This was already detailed in depth in the Lin thread.
i never said those guys would get mid first rounder. in fact i said carroll probably gets you 50-75% of his contract in cap relief and a second rounder or two. Dinwiddie might help you move up from 29 to 26 or so. certainly not much beyond that
IcyVeins wrote:
Didn't say you said that they would get you that. Said people on this stub did.
I'm sure there other ways around cap relief besides trading LIN and honestly, I'm sure the board/Kenny would of told him that they would potentially trade him or buy him... The odds of him getting bought out is probably lesser than the nets making the playoffs.
Honestly, I would prefer the nets getting rid of 2 guards (spencer and lin) especially if they plan on drafting another guard this summer.
