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Carmelo Anthony Thread (Denver Finalizes Deal With Knicks)

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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#61 » by contract » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:05 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Before I was just annoyed about this situation. Will a trade happen or will not a trade happen? Now, I'm more frustrated at Carmelo. I understand that he doesn't want to lose his fans and he's even reported his situation as a "lose-lose" situation. In his ESPN interview, he addressed issues concerning the Knicks, Nets, and Denver all in very neutral terms. The part I'm getting frustrated with is Carmelo's unwillingness to state what he wants to do/where he wants to go.

He's already described going home as a dream so we know that playing in New York would be ideal for him if everything else was equal. He even seemed giddy when he talked about being a player that can open up the Nets stadium in Brooklyn, which is 5 minutes away from where he grew up. Well, that is all nice and dandy but be a man already and say what your final decision. In fact, all he would need to say at this point is that "I don't want to go with the Nets". The case would be closed and Denver would just have to rent him to a team.

If he's stalling so he can pass the trade deadline (and go to the Knicks) just say it so that you're not holding up the lives and careers of 14+ other NBA players and 3+ franchises.

If he was smart, he would agree to the meeting and tell the NJ FO that he doesn't want to be in NJ to their faces so that no one else but them can hear him say it and it will save him from a PR blunder. He needs to make a decision quick before he does says something that will put him in the category of LeBron and I don't think any player wants to do that.

This is good news, not bad news for you. Anthony may be trying to force Denver to make a deal without him agreeing to an extension so that the team he ends up on doesn't have to gut itself of talent and trade assets.

That doesn't mean that he wants to play for the Nets, but it would mean that if he does, you can put a better team around him.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#62 » by KL78192020 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:10 pm

Looks like the Nuggets are stuck. I don't understand Melo, Before any trade discussions ever happen, Melo should have provided the Nuggets management with a list of teams he is willing to go to and sign and extension with.

Until that process is complete no trade should ever be discussed. This is just stupid. Why even talk to the Nets. Just ask Melo where he will sign and extension, then proceed. I don't get it. How hard is it to do that.

Maybe he needs to see what other pieces will be part of the new team, but still he has to know where he wants to be in the future for the next 4 years or so.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#63 » by cb1115 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:15 pm

ozzykhan16 wrote:Looks like the Nuggets are stuck. I don't understand Melo, Before any trade discussions ever happen, Melo should have provided the Nuggets management with a list of teams he is willing to go to and sign and extension with.

Until that process is complete no trade should ever be discussed. This is just stupid. Why even talk to the Nets. Just ask Melo where he will sign and extension, then proceed. I don't get it. How hard is it to do that.

Maybe he needs to see what other pieces will be part of the new team, but still he has to know where he wants to be in the future for the next 4 years or so.

Didn't he originally have a list of teams? I thought his list originally consisted of NY, Chicago, and NJ. Maybe I'm just trippin but I seem to remember something about that.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#64 » by Lamak » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:21 pm

I've given up on even thinking about this trade again until something happens. This has been going on for too long.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#65 » by KL78192020 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:28 pm

cb1115 wrote:
ozzykhan16 wrote:Looks like the Nuggets are stuck. I don't understand Melo, Before any trade discussions ever happen, Melo should have provided the Nuggets management with a list of teams he is willing to go to and sign and extension with.

Until that process is complete no trade should ever be discussed. This is just stupid. Why even talk to the Nets. Just ask Melo where he will sign and extension, then proceed. I don't get it. How hard is it to do that.

Maybe he needs to see what other pieces will be part of the new team, but still he has to know where he wants to be in the future for the next 4 years or so.

Didn't he originally have a list of teams? I thought his list originally consisted of NY, Chicago, and NJ. Maybe I'm just trippin but I seem to remember something about that.


I have no idea, this process is consuming. I'm sure there's alot going on that is not public knowledge, at least he will give Denver the chance to get something for him, but this is turning out to be just as bad for his image as Bron and Bosh situations. Well maybe not....but its definately more frustrating
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#66 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:33 pm

contract wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Before I was just annoyed about this situation. Will a trade happen or will not a trade happen? Now, I'm more frustrated at Carmelo. I understand that he doesn't want to lose his fans and he's even reported his situation as a "lose-lose" situation. In his ESPN interview, he addressed issues concerning the Knicks, Nets, and Denver all in very neutral terms. The part I'm getting frustrated with is Carmelo's unwillingness to state what he wants to do/where he wants to go.

He's already described going home as a dream so we know that playing in New York would be ideal for him if everything else was equal. He even seemed giddy when he talked about being a player that can open up the Nets stadium in Brooklyn, which is 5 minutes away from where he grew up. Well, that is all nice and dandy but be a man already and say what your final decision. In fact, all he would need to say at this point is that "I don't want to go with the Nets". The case would be closed and Denver would just have to rent him to a team.

If he's stalling so he can pass the trade deadline (and go to the Knicks) just say it so that you're not holding up the lives and careers of 14+ other NBA players and 3+ franchises.

If he was smart, he would agree to the meeting and tell the NJ FO that he doesn't want to be in NJ to their faces so that no one else but them can hear him say it and it will save him from a PR blunder. He needs to make a decision quick before he does says something that will put him in the category of LeBron and I don't think any player wants to do that.

This is good news, not bad news for you. Anthony may be trying to force Denver to make a deal without him agreeing to an extension so that the team he ends up on doesn't have to gut itself of talent and trade assets.

That doesn't mean that he wants to play for the Nets, but it would mean that if he does, you can put a better team around him.

Ok, I can kind of see where you're coming from but I'm pretty sure that we all know if he's going to choose a team to go to and one that doesn't have to gut itself, it would be the Knicks, not the Nets. Under that premise I believe that he would get the same amount of money from both teams but no matter how you slice, just look at our records. One team is above .500 and one team is well below .500. As of this moment right now, the Knicks have a better outlook/future than the Nets.

I know that he can't publicly say "I'd like to go to the Knicks" because he would lose all leverage publicly and Denver would make sure to send him to any place but NY. However, at the end of the day, he'd just wait till the end of the season and sign with them. I just don't see him going to the Nets unless it's through a trade.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#67 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:38 pm

cb1115 wrote:
ozzykhan16 wrote:Looks like the Nuggets are stuck. I don't understand Melo, Before any trade discussions ever happen, Melo should have provided the Nuggets management with a list of teams he is willing to go to and sign and extension with.

Until that process is complete no trade should ever be discussed. This is just stupid. Why even talk to the Nets. Just ask Melo where he will sign and extension, then proceed. I don't get it. How hard is it to do that.

Maybe he needs to see what other pieces will be part of the new team, but still he has to know where he wants to be in the future for the next 4 years or so.

Didn't he originally have a list of teams? I thought his list originally consisted of NY, Chicago, and NJ. Maybe I'm just trippin but I seem to remember something about that.

I almost started to agree that he did have a list until I remembered what happened. The media conjured up the teams that Melo would like to go to. They said NYK and NJ due to their current and future presence in NYC (his hometown and big market), and Chicago and Orlando due to their star power and big markets. It was the same with LeBron, they picked all of the big market places and said we think he wants to go here and they would ask him about said places, and he wouldn't say no, so it just furthered their convictions.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#68 » by cb1115 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:43 pm

^^^Oh ok thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#69 » by contract » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:00 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
contract wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Before I was just annoyed about this situation. Will a trade happen or will not a trade happen? Now, I'm more frustrated at Carmelo. I understand that he doesn't want to lose his fans and he's even reported his situation as a "lose-lose" situation. In his ESPN interview, he addressed issues concerning the Knicks, Nets, and Denver all in very neutral terms. The part I'm getting frustrated with is Carmelo's unwillingness to state what he wants to do/where he wants to go.

He's already described going home as a dream so we know that playing in New York would be ideal for him if everything else was equal. He even seemed giddy when he talked about being a player that can open up the Nets stadium in Brooklyn, which is 5 minutes away from where he grew up. Well, that is all nice and dandy but be a man already and say what your final decision. In fact, all he would need to say at this point is that "I don't want to go with the Nets". The case would be closed and Denver would just have to rent him to a team.

If he's stalling so he can pass the trade deadline (and go to the Knicks) just say it so that you're not holding up the lives and careers of 14+ other NBA players and 3+ franchises.

If he was smart, he would agree to the meeting and tell the NJ FO that he doesn't want to be in NJ to their faces so that no one else but them can hear him say it and it will save him from a PR blunder. He needs to make a decision quick before he does says something that will put him in the category of LeBron and I don't think any player wants to do that.

This is good news, not bad news for you. Anthony may be trying to force Denver to make a deal without him agreeing to an extension so that the team he ends up on doesn't have to gut itself of talent and trade assets.

That doesn't mean that he wants to play for the Nets, but it would mean that if he does, you can put a better team around him.

Ok, I can kind of see where you're coming from but I'm pretty sure that we all know if he's going to choose a team to go to and one that doesn't have to gut itself, it would be the Knicks, not the Nets. Under that premise I believe that he would get the same amount of money from both teams but no matter how you slice, just look at our records. One team is above .500 and one team is well below .500. As of this moment right now, the Knicks have a better outlook/future than the Nets.

I know that he can't publicly say "I'd like to go to the Knicks" because he would lose all leverage publicly and Denver would make sure to send him to any place but NY. However, at the end of the day, he'd just wait till the end of the season and sign with them. I just don't see him going to the Nets unless it's through a trade.

Currently his choice would be the Knicks, but the Nets still have time to upgrade their roster aside from any Melo trade. IMO first and foremost that means moving Murphy for a player that Johnson can/will actually make use of. And no, I'm not talking about Rip Hamilton at the end of his career. That would be a train wreck.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#70 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:04 pm

NYK Dolemite wrote:
Netaman wrote:anyone else dumbfounded about Denver's internal communication throughout this deal? Publicly they're treating this negotiation like the cuban missile crisis. Internally it sounds like Uriji never says a word to Carmelo and wants to simply pretend this isn't going on. Perhaps they're intentionally trying to keep Melo in the dark since they're pissed at him for wanting out but this whole thing strikes as amateur hour.



Somewhere in a bar, Isiah Thomas and Omar Minaya are having margaritas and laughing at the Denver front office.

That's how badly this has been handled.

:lol:

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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#71 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:05 pm

Here's a good chunk of an article from Hoopsworld
NBA AM: As Carmelo Turns...

By: Steve Kyler

He Won't Meet With The Nets: David Aldridge of NBA.com is reporting that the Denver Nuggets may have granted the New Jersey Nets permission to meet with Denver forward Carmelo Anthony as part of the final steps in consummating the long rumored 15-player trade that would land Anthony and Nuggets' teammate Chauncey Billups in Jersey.

Denver president Josh Kroneke and vice president Masai Ujiri have been avoiding the press for the better part of the last two weeks as Carmelo himself disputed the notion of a meeting with the Nets, saying last night that he had no plans to meet with anyone regarding his future.

"I'm having a meeting?" Anthony said to Chris Dempsey of the Denver Post. "I know nothing about that."

"I've never heard about that. That's news to me. I can't talk to them people. The Denver Nuggets still pay me. I haven't talked to anybody — Masai or Josh or any other teams. So for that speculation to be going around out there like that, that's false."

"I don't want to talk to nobody," explained Anthony. "I let the front office handle that type of stuff. It ain't my job to be talking to New Jersey, New York, Lakers, Dallas, no one. I still won't step into something like that. I've seen a lot of people go through that.

"For me to sit here and say I want to talk to them or Masai or Josh gave them permission to talk to me, I think that's false. If that was the case I'm pretty sure I would have gotten a phone call from Masai or Josh about that."

On the Jersey side of thing, Nets head coach Avery Johnson was presented with the report that his team was cleared to meet with Anthony, and as Avery has done throughout this entire process, he's saying there is no substance to the talks.

"The team that you see right now, you'll see this team in uniform Wednesday. See the team? You'll see them Wednesday night," said Johnson said to Fred Kerber of the New York Post. "You'll see the same team Friday night."

"We have been dealing with this since October," Johnson said. "Three times since October, it's always been 'heating up.' It's always been 'a done deal.' "

"If Coach Phil Jackson has a Zen moment and he calls me at midnight Monday and he wants to trade us Kobe. Then it's going to change. That's the only way."

The Nuggets and Nets have continued a dialogue since the details of the rumored 15-player trade surfaced on the 9th of January.

Sources close to the talks say the deal on the table now includes Anthony and Chauncey Billups landing in New Jersey from the Nuggets, while Pistons guard Richard Hamilton is shipped to jersey from Detroit. The Pistons would receive Tory Murphy and Johan Petro from the Nets, while Derrick Favors, Anthony Morrow, Devein Harris and Kris Humphries land in Denver along with as many as three first-round draft picks.

What Denver Is Thinking: Sources close to the situation in Denver explained the thought process taking place around the team last night and said that while talks were progressing towards a possible deal with the New Jersey Nets, there is a scenario playing out in which Denver could hold their ground and not trade Anthony at all.

A deal with the New Jersey Nets is a compromise deal.

The ideal scenario for Denver is to extend Carmelo Anthony and keep him in town. That was Denver's priority coming into the season and that's their priority now. Despite talks with other teams Denver has maintained their stance that an extension for Anthony is still on the table and valid, all he needs to do is sign it and all of this ends and goes away.

The ideal scenario for Carmelo Anthony is a trade to the New York Knicks. It's where he wants to be and it's where he'd potentially leave money on the table to get to. That's the real threat for the Nuggets. Carmelo could opt to leave the $18.5 million he is owed next year on the table and walk to New York for whatever they can pay him under the salary cap. The Nuggets know this to be a real possibility, especially if the salary cap in the next labor agreement is anywhere close to what it is today.

The Knicks have tried to get a trade done with Denver. They have offered several combinations of assets and Denver just does not believe they can rebuild around what New York has to offer and the Nuggets refuse to make a deal that's not in their best interests.

So here we are, the compromise deal is on the table, and sources near the Nuggets say the team is cleverly playing this in their favor. They have a deal that gets them out from under the NBA Luxury Tax, gets them several young players with upside and some trade chips to move on to other teams along with as many as three first round draft picks.

There is a future for Denver after this deal, one that has tremendous cap flexibility. One that has plenty of draft options and maybe the chance that one of the players obtained from Jersey can carry the franchise.

But what about Carmelo? Is New Jersey any closer to competing for a NBA title than Denver? Are the Nets any closer to the dominating in the playoffs than Denver? Newark is 30 minutes from Madison Square Garden, but playing in the Prudential Center isn't the same as The Garden.

It's a compromise.

The Nuggets will not make a deal with the New York Knicks. They have made that clear. They can make a deal with New Jersey tomorrow if that's what Anthony wants. If he won't agree to an extension in Jersey there are other deals the Nuggets can make, but the deal they want to make is a deal with Carmelo.

There is a real sense that Denver is letting this New Jersey deal hang around as more of a temptation to get Anthony talking with them, rather than getting a deal with the Nets or anyone else completed.

It's not as though trading Anthony to the Nets is a threat, but it does allow the Nuggets to have a "are they really better than us" discussion.

It would be awfully anti-climactic if Anthony simply extended in Denver. That is something the Nuggets have not stopped pursuing. In their mind that's still the ideal transaction and until that door closes we may not see a deal with Jersey or anyone else.

As many of you have already said, Masai is playing this pretty poorly but it makes sense why it appears he's doing such a bad job.
1) He's a 1st time GM. He just left Toronto and the Bosh situation only to come to Denver to another "I wanna leave but not tell you publicly" situation. Now that he is at the helm, he wants to make sure that Denver either gets so much in return that giving up Melo won't mean much or convince him to stay so the problem can go away. He's simply an amateur. Here's an example: Have you ever watched two young kids trade something? If there's one who has never done it before, they will ask for something well over the value of what they are giving up or well under the value, because they do not understand value of their own trade chip. They don't know how to barter. All Masai has done is continued to raise the price like a fool that doesn't know there is a limit to how far you can push it. Now that he's reached a dead end, he doesn't really know what to do. Josh Kroenke is the same way. His father just made him VP (I think) and he's "helping" in this trade process. They're both noobs who could've got away with murder if they would've known the value of what they could've received earlier. As the trade deadline gets closer, the steps of doom will just get louder and louder. The question is whether Masai and Kroenke will cover their ears like little children pretending not to face the reality of the situation or will they actually face their situation knowing that there are always gains and losses that you can't always manufacture on your own in sports.

2) They still believe Melo will "come to his senses and realize" that they have the better offer of just staying in Denver. The problem with Denver is that Melo has already said the reason why he's not signing the contract is because he's not sure of the future of Denver. Frankly, I agree with him. Yes, they have a good, playoff team but all of their good players are either free agents or can opt out after this season. If Melo agrees to the extension, he could just be left with Harrington and Co. lol. In fact, Harrington is the only one who has publicly said that it is the team's responsibility to keep Melo in Denver. Why? Because he's the only signed for the next 5 seasons (including this one) in Denver. Denver's sign of progress and a willingness to win to Melo has only been Al Harrington and his bloated contract.

Remember when Kobe started saying he wants a trade? What did LA do? They brought in Pau Gasol.
What did Cleveland do to convince LBJ to stay? Bring in the oldest player in the league in Shaq and Antawn Jamison LOL.

These are two valuable lessons Denver should have paid attention to. You want your players to stay? Bring in GOOD players to play with them. Denver knows Melo wants to play with CP3. Therefore, instead of trying to convince him to stay on team where JR goes crazy every other week, Martin and Birdman keep getting injured, and Billups is only getting older, they should have been trading to get other players on their team. However, since they are not doing that, one can only assume that they are content with being a playoff team but not a true contender (which is a player's and fan's worst nightmare).

Denver could have made this easy on themselves by at least showing that they are willing to get what Melo wants like what Orlando did for Dwight.

This is why this is such a big mess that has lasted for such a long time. Denver could've killed this issue a long time ago but now they are facing the consequences.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#72 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:11 pm

Netaman wrote:They wouldnt be a championship team but they would be a 50 win team and we would be a 20 win team getting our **** pushed into constantly thanks to the Prokhorov BB and such.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KGRZuWXVhA[/youtube]
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#73 » by Netaman » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:18 pm

lol.

do you think Prokhorov regrets not keeping Thorn and giving him more control yet? However this works out I can't imagine he likes the stench of desperation that's out there now.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#74 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:22 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:As many of you have already said, Masai is playing this pretty poorly but it makes sense why it appears he's doing such a bad job.
1) He's a 1st time GM. He just left Toronto and the Bosh situation only to come to Denver to another "I wanna leave but not tell you publicly" situation. Now that he is at the helm, he wants to make sure that Denver either gets so much in return that giving up Melo won't mean much or convince him to stay so the problem can go away. He's simply an amateur. Here's an example: Have you ever watched two young kids trade something? If there's one who has never done it before, they will ask for something well over the value of what they are giving up or well under the value, because they do not understand value of their own trade chip. They don't know how to barter. All Masai has done is continued to raise the price like a fool that doesn't know there is a limit to how far you can push it. Now that he's reached a dead end, he doesn't really know what to do. Josh Kroenke is the same way. His father just made him VP (I think) and he's "helping" in this trade process. They're both noobs who could've got away with murder if they would've known the value of what they could've received earlier. As the trade deadline gets closer, the steps of doom will just get louder and louder. The question is whether Masai and Kroenke will cover their ears like little children pretending not to face the reality of the situation or will they actually face their situation knowing that there are always gains and losses that you can't always manufacture on your own in sports.

2) They still believe Melo will "come to his senses and realize" that they have the better offer of just staying in Denver. The problem with Denver is that Melo has already said the reason why he's not signing the contract is because he's not sure of the future of Denver. Frankly, I agree with him. Yes, they have a good, playoff team but all of their good players are either free agents or can opt out after this season. If Melo agrees to the extension, he could just be left with Harrington and Co. lol. In fact, Harrington is the only one who has publicly said that it is the team's responsibility to keep Melo in Denver. Why? Because he's the only signed for the next 5 seasons (including this one) in Denver. Denver's sign of progress and a willingness to win to Melo has only been Al Harrington and his bloated contract.

Remember when Kobe started saying he wants a trade? What did LA do? They brought in Pau Gasol.
What did Cleveland do to convince LBJ to stay? Bring in the oldest player in the league in Shaq and Antawn Jamison LOL.

These are two valuable lessons Denver should have paid attention to. You want your players to stay? Bring in GOOD players to play with them. Denver knows Melo wants to play with CP3. Therefore, instead of trying to convince him to stay on team where JR goes crazy every other week, Martin and Birdman keep getting injured, and Billups is only getting older, they should have been trading to get other players on their team. However, since they are not doing that, one can only assume that they are content with being a playoff team but not a true contender (which is a player's and fan's worst nightmare).

Denver could have made this easy on themselves by at least showing that they are willing to get what Melo wants like what Orlando did for Dwight.

This is why this is such a big mess that has lasted for such a long time. Denver could've killed this issue a long time ago but now they are facing the consequences.

I mainly agree with you on point #1.

On point #2 I hear what you're saying, but I don't know what else they could have done so far.

They can't exactly call New Orleans, Utah or Orlando and say, "Trade us your superstar so we can keep Melo and become contenders or else!"

Sure they can become more active and trade for a bunch of OK, overrated young players on bloated albatross contracts, but I don't know that is a smart move.

They are kind of stuck in a catch 22. It doesn't help that their FO is Bush League though.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#75 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:23 pm

Netaman wrote:do you think Prokhorov regrets not keeping Thorn and giving him more control yet? However this works out I can't imagine he likes the stench of desperation that's out there now.

No, I think Proky is half a megalomaniac.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#76 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Currently his choice would be the Knicks, but the Nets still have time to upgrade their roster aside from any Melo trade. IMO first and foremost that means moving Murphy for a player that Johnson can/will actually make use of. And no, I'm not talking about Rip Hamilton at the end of his career. That would be a train wreck.

After writing my last post, I just realized something. The same logic that I applied to Melo's analysis of the Denver franchise, would also be applied to any other franchise that wants to acquire him.

Denver, what have you done to upgrade your roster lately: Al Harrington
New Jersey, what have you done to upgrade: Outlaw, Vujacic, Farmar, Petro, Morrow
New York, what have you done to upgrade: Amare Stoudemire, Raymond Felton.

This clearly shows which franchise is trying to win. Even if the Knicks have done bad before, they are making an effort to be good.

Therefore, if the Nets have sense, they should get off the phone with Masai and start making phone calls to places like NOH for CP3, Memphis for Mayo, GSW for Ellis, Utah for D.Williams, Portland for LMA, and Indiana for Granger. If you prove that you're going to make the moves to win, players will come. And guess what? If we were smart and actually did this, it wouldn't cost anywhere close to as much as we're about to give up trying to get Melo.

We should let Denver play the fool and lose him in the offseason and if we really wanted him that bad, get the players who he'd want to play with and we wouldn't even have to worry about giving him that ridiculous extension or all of our players.

Btw, I'm not saying that any of those teams would say yes to a trade but at least make the effort. That's what Boston did to make the Big 3. We need to make the right effort but use intelligence and not idiocy when doing so.

Somebody...anybody...tell Proky to stop being so foolish...aaaahhhhh!!
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#77 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:32 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:As many of you have already said, Masai is playing this pretty poorly but it makes sense why it appears he's doing such a bad job.
1) He's a 1st time GM. He just left Toronto and the Bosh situation only to come to Denver to another "I wanna leave but not tell you publicly" situation. Now that he is at the helm, he wants to make sure that Denver either gets so much in return that giving up Melo won't mean much or convince him to stay so the problem can go away. He's simply an amateur. Here's an example: Have you ever watched two young kids trade something? If there's one who has never done it before, they will ask for something well over the value of what they are giving up or well under the value, because they do not understand value of their own trade chip. They don't know how to barter. All Masai has done is continued to raise the price like a fool that doesn't know there is a limit to how far you can push it. Now that he's reached a dead end, he doesn't really know what to do. Josh Kroenke is the same way. His father just made him VP (I think) and he's "helping" in this trade process. They're both noobs who could've got away with murder if they would've known the value of what they could've received earlier. As the trade deadline gets closer, the steps of doom will just get louder and louder. The question is whether Masai and Kroenke will cover their ears like little children pretending not to face the reality of the situation or will they actually face their situation knowing that there are always gains and losses that you can't always manufacture on your own in sports.

2) They still believe Melo will "come to his senses and realize" that they have the better offer of just staying in Denver. The problem with Denver is that Melo has already said the reason why he's not signing the contract is because he's not sure of the future of Denver. Frankly, I agree with him. Yes, they have a good, playoff team but all of their good players are either free agents or can opt out after this season. If Melo agrees to the extension, he could just be left with Harrington and Co. lol. In fact, Harrington is the only one who has publicly said that it is the team's responsibility to keep Melo in Denver. Why? Because he's the only signed for the next 5 seasons (including this one) in Denver. Denver's sign of progress and a willingness to win to Melo has only been Al Harrington and his bloated contract.

Remember when Kobe started saying he wants a trade? What did LA do? They brought in Pau Gasol.
What did Cleveland do to convince LBJ to stay? Bring in the oldest player in the league in Shaq and Antawn Jamison LOL.

These are two valuable lessons Denver should have paid attention to. You want your players to stay? Bring in GOOD players to play with them. Denver knows Melo wants to play with CP3. Therefore, instead of trying to convince him to stay on team where JR goes crazy every other week, Martin and Birdman keep getting injured, and Billups is only getting older, they should have been trading to get other players on their team. However, since they are not doing that, one can only assume that they are content with being a playoff team but not a true contender (which is a player's and fan's worst nightmare).

Denver could have made this easy on themselves by at least showing that they are willing to get what Melo wants like what Orlando did for Dwight.

This is why this is such a big mess that has lasted for such a long time. Denver could've killed this issue a long time ago but now they are facing the consequences.

I mainly agree with you on point #1.

On point #2 I hear what you're saying, but I don't know what else they could have done so far.

They can't exactly call New Orleans, Utah or Orlando and say, "Trade us your superstar so we can keep Melo and become contenders or else!"

Sure they can become more active and trade for a bunch of OK, overrated young players on bloated albatross contracts, but I don't know that is a smart move.

They are kind of stuck in a catch 22. It doesn't help that their FO is Bush League though.

I know they're stuck and sometimes the coin doesn't flip a team's way and there is nothing that they can do about it. I'm not saying that they could have received those players, but at least if they made the effort to who knows what the situation would be now, ya know?
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#78 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:37 pm

Who's to say they haven't tried to acquire players like that in the recent past?

GM's talk and make offers to each other everyday, they don't always make the papers.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#79 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:40 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Who's to say they haven't tried to acquire players like that in the recent past?

GM's talk and make offers to each other everyday, they don't always make the papers.

You're right about that. I'm just saying that if you try so many times with so many different teams, you'd think you'd at least heat an "ok, tell me more" from some team and that would make the papers. But I do see where you're coming from. However, given the way our ownership has been handling things, I doubt if they've done that.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony Thread (Part 2) 

Post#80 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:46 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
Currently his choice would be the Knicks, but the Nets still have time to upgrade their roster aside from any Melo trade. IMO first and foremost that means moving Murphy for a player that Johnson can/will actually make use of. And no, I'm not talking about Rip Hamilton at the end of his career. That would be a train wreck.

After writing my last post, I just realized something. The same logic that I applied to Melo's analysis of the Denver franchise, would also be applied to any other franchise that wants to acquire him.

Denver, what have you done to upgrade your roster lately: Al Harrington
New Jersey, what have you done to upgrade: Outlaw, Vujacic, Farmar, Petro, Morrow
New York, what have you done to upgrade: Amare Stoudemire, Raymond Felton.

This clearly shows which franchise is trying to win. Even if the Knicks have done bad before, they are making an effort to be good.

Therefore, if the Nets have sense, they should get off the phone with Masai and start making phone calls to places like NOH for CP3, Memphis for Mayo, GSW for Ellis, Utah for D.Williams, Portland for LMA, and Indiana for Granger. If you prove that you're going to make the moves to win, players will come. And guess what? If we were smart and actually did this, it wouldn't cost anywhere close to as much as we're about to give up trying to get Melo.

We should let Denver play the fool and lose him in the offseason and if we really wanted him that bad, get the players who he'd want to play with and we wouldn't even have to worry about giving him that ridiculous extension or all of our players.

Somebody...anybody...tell Proky to stop being so foolish...aaaahhhhh!!

I never really bought into the hype of all these guys wanting to play in NY, they always just use the Knix to pump up the hype and place themselves in a better position to get what they want, but in this case I think the Knix are in the lead by a mile for Melo.

Again, I don't think Melo has shut the door on us by any means, but I think there would have to be a drastic move or clear ability to make one in the immediate future to convince him to come here.

Last summer there were 4 or so situations better for any of the big time free agents to go over the Knix, but this time they are the cream of the crop of FA destinations in all reality as tough a pill as that is to swallow.

One thing I want to say is it's pretty much 99.9999997% impossible for NY to add Melo and Chris Paul or Deron or Dwight with Amar'e, so at least breath easy with that.

Last thing I want to say and I hate to do this, because some Knix troll will read this and put a Price Is Right prize wheel spin on it, but...

If we get Melo as proposed, it doesn't help us get CP3 or Deron, or even Dwight, it basically opens the door for the Knix to.

That is another reason why this deal as currently constructed SUCKS.

Not only do we become a middle of the pack team with little to no upside, but in a sense we gift the Knix one of those three because we take ourselves out of the running and leave them as one of the only realistic and simultaneously desirable situations.
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