Trade Targets

[SpeedyG]

Also, I want Favors back

[N Ireland Nets]

You want a guy who is a very good defender at the 4 to help take our defence in the paint to another level. There aren't many PF's who can actually do that so it's really hard trying to find a player that fits and using our limited resources actually making a trade that works.

The only 3 players I even see it as remotely possible and as great options are Nene, Millsap & Smith.

Nene, id imagine, could be hard for Hump and a pick due to his high contract and would fit in our team perfectly. He's been used wrong his entire career in Denver due to the Nuggets not having a center of any sort so they made Nene their center. Nene has always been a PF, as seen on the Brazil squad, he's a complete beast playing PF. He's a very good defender who is also a top passer as a forward who can bang with the best of them. I love Nene as a player. Also the beauty in Nene's monster contract is it ends in......yes you guessed it 2016, at the same time as all our other big contracts which leaves us in a good position to completely reload after a 4 year run with the current line up.

Millsap and Smith won't be re-signing with their teams but they will get better offers than what we are capable of giving them. The ace though is if Millsap or Smith demands to be traded to Brooklyn or he walks in the summer to another team with cap room, the old Howard treatment, theres not a lot the team can do. It puts teams in between a rock and a hard place. Either we hold onto the player and run the risk of them walking to Dallas and losing a player for nothing and assets that the team could've picked up or they take what they can get and run. If a player states, "trade me to x team or i test free agency" no other team is going to trade for a player knowing they run the risk of losing them for nothing only a few months later.

A player's free agency is a major asset that Brooklyn has to use to put pressure on teams to push through trades. It's an **** big market team's move but guess what, we're a big market team now so its time to use it to our advantage going forward.

Nene is the most realistic and attainable target because it makes sense for the Wizards to tank while getting a big contract off the books. If we keep winning and playing good ball, I can see Josh Smith demanding a trade later in the season to Brooklyn, just like he did last year when he was unhappy and said trade me to New Jersey, Boston, Orlando or Houston I think it was.

Whatever happens though, we need a starting quality PF, not just a PF who grabs rebounds like Hump. He makes the starting unit worse being on the floor because he is poor on defence (a few blocks mean nothing) and also misses wide open 10ft jumpers while offering little on offence.

We could be a good trade for a PF away from being a real legit team.

[N Ireland Nets]

Man it sucks we didn't nab Davis. He'd be BROW-fect for this team.

Tell me about it man

It would've been perfect

Williams
Johnson
Wallace
Davis
Lopez

A great defender at the 4 who is developing his jump shot and looks like a complete star. It would've been perfect going forward with Lopez and Davis being the Brooklyn front court for the next 10 years, sigh.

[deepblueday]

sick of the nene and milsap talk. one's old and injured and plays like he doesn't care, the other's 6'7 in shoes, neither have any impact on D, both will look worse in our system with less touches. we need youth and athleticism at the four, we don't need more of the league's declining and replacement level discards.

ultimately, id rather not be an identity-less mercenary organization thats constantly trading and turning over its roster, bringing in aging **** like nene and JJ just to be competitive. run with this squad for the next two years. explore trades for youth as they arise. im out

[SpeedyG]

The reality is there's no one out there. The PFs who are have little to no weaknesses are not going to be available. WHoever we get, we'll be doing some kind of tradeoff one way or another.

[SpeedyG]

Who we really need is Ike Diogu *waits for E's entrance*

[vincecarter4pres]

Also, I want Favors back

[vincecarter4pres]

Who we really need is Ike Diogu *waits for E's entrance*

Psh... I'm holding out for Sean May.

[vincecarter4pres]

sick of the nene and milsap talk. one's old and injured and plays like he doesn't care, the other's 6'7 in shoes, neither have any impact on D, both will look worse in our system with less touches. we need youth and athleticism at the four, we don't need more of the league's declining and replacement level discards.

ultimately, id rather not be an identity-less mercenary organization thats constantly trading and turning over its roster, bringing in aging **** like nene and JJ just to be competitive. run with this squad for the next two years. explore trades for youth as they arise. im out

You've forced my hand, I must now give you your own treatment lol.

First up, Nene is an excellent defender. Especially in the pick and roll, something this team sorely lacks.

Second, although again not a great overall character trait, he's a player that lacks motivation in hopeless situations like Washington, but truthfully you haven't seen him play if you think he doesn't go beast on the court. It's more so he's not going to comeback early and chance re-injury on a **** team.

Third, he's very athletic. Although not a fly through the sky alley-oop guy, he's an above the rim finisher with incredible lateral quicks and recover speed.

Fourth, he's never been a player who needs a lot of touches to be effective or campaigns for them.

Fifth, he's a great pick and roll finisher and passer, 2 things Hump and Evans severely lack(Evans a good passer, but offense is non-existent, often to the point it cancels out his great passing), so he'd again fit great. Also he has a decent jumper to about 15, better then Hump's improving one by a tad.

Sixth, he's a bull and has a serious toughness about him, similar to Evans.

Seventh, he had wanted to be here and probably still does, I doubt we'll be questioning his motivation here.


As for Millsap...

First, he's a solid defender despite his height. He has quick feet and is an underrated shot blocker and can rotate, can even guard opposing small forwards in spurts. Nothing great, but a big step up from Hump.

Second, he played quite well with Deron.

Third, another player who has always been efficient and impactful with limited touches and doesn't complain with a moderate amount of them. In fact he doesn't need many plays run for him at all, he's mainly an opportunistic garbage man and quick pick and roll, pick and pop, off ball cut guy, not someone you jam the offense up with force feeding the ball in iso's.

Fourth, he's young and just hitting his full prime.

Fifth, he's got a very nice jumper and would space the floor exceptionally well for everyone.



The truth is, aside from your main 2 stars and then say 2 other core guys, NBA rosters, especially contenders are turned over frequently.

We have our superstar in Deron.
We have our rising star in Brook, who's also our homegrown drafted guy.
We have our glue guy in Wallace.
We have our hand is forced awful contract 4th core guy in JJ, who I'm hoping and feeling is just slumping and will be solid the rest of the way out for the most part.
We even have our 5th core fan favorite role player who's signed for 3 years in Reggie MF'in Evans.


Everything else is basically open game.


As is we're still not a true, true contender and I'm talking about a long shot one. We need to improve to get there and it's not going to come from within.

Just to be truly legit we need Brook to keep getting better, to keep gelling and improve from within.


But what we are is one proper starting, proper fitting four man away from being a legit contender, as long as internal improvement happens simultaneously.


As others have said, there aren't a stockpile of defensive stud 4's available. You have to get what you can, but also, at the same time not just make a move to make one.


Nene and Millsap are both very, very good players who will likely be available a lot cheaper then they should be asset wise.

If you can bring one of them in, that's when you're almost done tinkering.


We don't need a star at every position. And unless a guy like LMA or Horford or Josh Smith or maybe Gasol becomes available for peanuts, there's no need to force another one into the lineup.


Basically, we're going to be a flawed team. Pretty much every team is outside Miami, who even have some defensive big man problems.

So you make either of these moves if they become available, at least and especially if you're hearing no one else is that we can attain, specifically one of the other 4 I mentioned above.


We're not getting a Favors.


We're not getting an Anthony Davis.


We can't manufacture a top 5 pick 24 and under instant add water stud or the assets to attain one.

[SpeedyG]

sick of the nene and milsap talk. one's old and injured and plays like he doesn't care, the other's 6'7 in shoes, neither have any impact on D, both will look worse in our system with less touches. we need youth and athleticism at the four, we don't need more of the league's declining and replacement level discards.

ultimately, id rather not be an identity-less mercenary organization thats constantly trading and turning over its roster, bringing in aging **** like nene and JJ just to be competitive. run with this squad for the next two years. explore trades for youth as they arise. im out

You've forced my hand, I must now give you your own treatment lol.

First up, Nene is an excellent defender. Especially in the pick and roll, something this team sorely lacks.

Second, although again not a great overall character trait, he's a player that lacks motivation in hopeless situations like Washington, but truthfully you haven't seen him play if you think he doesn't go beast on the court. It's more so he's not going to comeback early and chance re-injury on a **** team.

Third, he's very athletic. Although not a fly through the sky alley-oop guy, he's an above the rim finisher with incredible lateral quicks and recover speed.

Fourth, he's never been a player who needs a lot of touches to be effective or campaigns for them.

Fifth, he's a great pick and roll finisher and passer, 2 things Hump and Evans severely lack(Evans a good passer, but offense is non-existent, often to the point it cancels out his great passing), so he'd again fit great. Also he has a decent jumper to about 15, better then Hump's improving one by a tad.

Sixth, he's a bull and has a serious toughness about him, similar to Evans.

Seventh, he had wanted to be here and probably still does, I doubt we'll be questioning his motivation here.


As for Millsap...

First, he's a solid defender despite his height. He has quick feet and is an underrated shot blocker and can rotate, can even guard opposing small forwards in spurts. Nothing great, but a big step up from Hump.

Second, he played quite well with Deron.

Third, another player who has always been efficient and impactful with limited touches and doesn't complain with a moderate amount of them. In fact he doesn't need many plays run for him at all, he's mainly an opportunistic garbage man and quick pick and roll, pick and pop, off ball cut guy, not someone you jam the offense up with force feeding the ball in iso's.

Fourth, he's young and just hitting his full prime.

Fifth, he's got a very nice jumper and would space the floor exceptionally well for everyone.



The truth is, aside from your main 2 stars and then say 2 other core guys, NBA rosters, especially contenders are turned over frequently.

We have our superstar in Deron.
We have our rising star in Brook, who's also our homegrown drafted guy.
We have our glue guy in Wallace.
We have our hand is forced awful contract 4th core guy in JJ, who I'm hoping and feeling is just slumping and will be solid the rest of the way out for the most part.
We even have our 5th core fan favorite role player who's signed for 3 years in Reggie MF'in Evans.


Everything else is basically open game.


As is we're still not a true, true contender and I'm talking about a long shot one. We need to improve to get there and it's not going to come from within.

Just to be truly legit we need Brook to keep getting better, to keep gelling and improve from within.


But what we are is one proper starting, proper fitting four man away from being a legit contender, as long as internal improvement happens simultaneously.


As others have said, there aren't a stockpile of defensive stud 4's available. You have to get what you can, but also, at the same time not just make a move to make one.


Nene and Millsap are both very, very good players who will likely be available a lot cheaper then they should be asset wise.

If you can bring one of them in, that's when you're almost done tinkering.


We don't need a star at every position. And unless a guy like LMA or Horford or Josh Smith or maybe Gasol becomes available for peanuts, there's no need to force another one into the lineup.


Basically, we're going to be a flawed team. Pretty much every team is outside Miami, who even have some defensive big man problems.

So you make either of these moves if they become available, at least and especially if you're hearing no one else is that we can attain, specifically one of the other 4 I mentioned above.


We're not getting a Favors.


We're not getting an Anthony Davis.


We can't manufacture a top 5 pick 24 and under instant add water stud or the assets to attain one.

We even have a guy who should be playing but isn't because he plays Efense and is a ball-stopping chucker.

[bobbyc]

Why would Nene not be good for us?

Also, starting to re-warm up to the idea of Millsap some.

Our starting frontcourt would be terrible on the boards with Nene and Lopez. Also defensively he is not great. We need the pf to make up for Lopez's deficiencies. Varejao is a good fit for us.

[vincecarter4pres]

Why would Nene not be good for us?

Also, starting to re-warm up to the idea of Millsap some.

Our starting frontcourt would be terrible on the boards with Nene and Lopez. Also defensively he is not great. We need the pf to make up for Lopez's deficiencies. Varejao is a good fit for us.

Few things:

1) Nene is actually a solid rebounder. He's mainly played with other very good rebounders and his minutes are usually in the high 20's to low 30's so his per game numbers don't represent his worth.

Look at his per36 and rebounding rate numbers, they're very solid.

2) You don't need a double digit rebounder playing huge minutes to be a good or even great rebounding team.

Look at last year... 7 of the top 11 rebounding teams in the league didn't have a double digit per game rebounder on their roster.

We still have Evans to play big minutes.

Still have Wallace beasting from the 3.

3) Why do people keep saying Nene is not a great defender? Or at least others who are claiming he is bad?

He might not be great overall, but he is certainly very good and he is great in pick and roll coverage from all aspects of that facet of defense.

And again, where are we getting this magic great defender at the 4 with our trade assets?

4) I often forget about Varejao. I like the idea of him but I have a number of concerns:

A) Always injured.

B) Getting up there in age himself.

C) Has really never played the 4, although his mobility leads me to believe he can. Will he get torched? He's a solid defender, but he's not great either. Relying on a lot of flopping and beyond that it's annoying, all advanced saber-metrics paint him as a mediocre to bad defender. I don't live and die by advanced stats for defense, it's a very hard thing to quantify, but a lot of them ring true to an extent where we at least can get a snapshot of a player's true effectiveness on that side of the ball.

D) With his career year I don't think he comes cheap at all anymore and he's just not the player I see either trying to force his way here or really any specific team, nor the type of player to have that kind of pull, especially with a number of years remaining on his deal.

And so although I think there will only be certain teams looking to deal for him, as in not many true lotto teams if any, I think there would be a mini-bidding war for him and he might wind up getting dealt in a rarer talent for talent deal or someone who's looking like the 8th to 12th overall pick gives up their pick top 3 protected, an additional 1st or a solid B rate prospect and salary relief, none of which we can offer, period.

[vincecarter4pres]

sick of the nene and milsap talk. one's old and injured and plays like he doesn't care, the other's 6'7 in shoes, neither have any impact on D, both will look worse in our system with less touches. we need youth and athleticism at the four, we don't need more of the league's declining and replacement level discards.

ultimately, id rather not be an identity-less mercenary organization thats constantly trading and turning over its roster, bringing in aging **** like nene and JJ just to be competitive. run with this squad for the next two years. explore trades for youth as they arise. im out

You've forced my hand, I must now give you your own treatment lol.

First up, Nene is an excellent defender. Especially in the pick and roll, something this team sorely lacks.

Second, although again not a great overall character trait, he's a player that lacks motivation in hopeless situations like Washington, but truthfully you haven't seen him play if you think he doesn't go beast on the court. It's more so he's not going to comeback early and chance re-injury on a **** team.

Third, he's very athletic. Although not a fly through the sky alley-oop guy, he's an above the rim finisher with incredible lateral quicks and recover speed.

Fourth, he's never been a player who needs a lot of touches to be effective or campaigns for them.

Fifth, he's a great pick and roll finisher and passer, 2 things Hump and Evans severely lack(Evans a good passer, but offense is non-existent, often to the point it cancels out his great passing), so he'd again fit great. Also he has a decent jumper to about 15, better then Hump's improving one by a tad.

Sixth, he's a bull and has a serious toughness about him, similar to Evans.

Seventh, he had wanted to be here and probably still does, I doubt we'll be questioning his motivation here.


As for Millsap...

First, he's a solid defender despite his height. He has quick feet and is an underrated shot blocker and can rotate, can even guard opposing small forwards in spurts. Nothing great, but a big step up from Hump.

Second, he played quite well with Deron.

Third, another player who has always been efficient and impactful with limited touches and doesn't complain with a moderate amount of them. In fact he doesn't need many plays run for him at all, he's mainly an opportunistic garbage man and quick pick and roll, pick and pop, off ball cut guy, not someone you jam the offense up with force feeding the ball in iso's.

Fourth, he's young and just hitting his full prime.

Fifth, he's got a very nice jumper and would space the floor exceptionally well for everyone.



The truth is, aside from your main 2 stars and then say 2 other core guys, NBA rosters, especially contenders are turned over frequently.

We have our superstar in Deron.
We have our rising star in Brook, who's also our homegrown drafted guy.
We have our glue guy in Wallace.
We have our hand is forced awful contract 4th core guy in JJ, who I'm hoping and feeling is just slumping and will be solid the rest of the way out for the most part.
We even have our 5th core fan favorite role player who's signed for 3 years in Reggie MF'in Evans.


Everything else is basically open game.


As is we're still not a true, true contender and I'm talking about a long shot one. We need to improve to get there and it's not going to come from within.

Just to be truly legit we need Brook to keep getting better, to keep gelling and improve from within.


But what we are is one proper starting, proper fitting four man away from being a legit contender, as long as internal improvement happens simultaneously.


As others have said, there aren't a stockpile of defensive stud 4's available. You have to get what you can, but also, at the same time not just make a move to make one.


Nene and Millsap are both very, very good players who will likely be available a lot cheaper then they should be asset wise.

If you can bring one of them in, that's when you're almost done tinkering.


We don't need a star at every position. And unless a guy like LMA or Horford or Josh Smith or maybe Gasol becomes available for peanuts, there's no need to force another one into the lineup.


Basically, we're going to be a flawed team. Pretty much every team is outside Miami, who even have some defensive big man problems.

So you make either of these moves if they become available, at least and especially if you're hearing no one else is that we can attain, specifically one of the other 4 I mentioned above.


We're not getting a Favors.


We're not getting an Anthony Davis.


We can't manufacture a top 5 pick 24 and under instant add water stud or the assets to attain one.

We even have a guy who should be playing but isn't because he plays Efense and is a ball-stopping chucker.

Mirza is mierda! Hate that guy.

[NyCeEvO]

I know there was a lot of hesitation to him this summer, but I still think Thaddeus Young is a guy worth considering. No idea if he is available or not, but I think the defensive combination of him and Wallace would really help solidify our rotations, not to mention boost our overall athleticism infinitely.

Right now he's averaging 14/8 with more than 1 spg and shooting 50%. No, he wouldn't really be a great interior presence blocking shots but he is very good at rotating over and has a lot of the same intangible qualities as Wallace (and seeing first hand how much toughness and defensive positioning can change a game, that's what I want more of). If you look at the way the East is right now especially, imagine having both he and Wallace to deploy against Melo, Pierce, Lebron, etc. When other teams go bigger you could easily throw Evans into the fold a little bit more.

Again, no idea if this is feasible and what it would cost (Collins seems to love Thad). I'm sure their preference would be Humphries to a 3rd team, but this is something I would do. I liked the idea over the summer, and like it ever more now after watching this team. Despite Lopez' deficiencies, size and rebounding are strengths - it's athleticism and defensive intelligence that's much needed.

There's no impetus for PHI to give up Thad unless they're planning to blow it up or get a star in return.

With the Bynum trade looking worse by the day, they need all the help they can get to make their investment into this season a worthy one.

[vincecarter4pres]

Thad to me is still just an energy tweener forward off the bench as a big minute 6xth man. He's very much like a less offensively skilled Gerald Wallace with at best even defense but less ability to guard true perimeter players.

As a 3 he's an abomination from deep and in general on offense if you're looking to start him and as a 4, yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen as a starter and in the playoffs and big games in half court grind outs.

He's solid, but I'm not a huge fan and think he gets insanely overrated by most Philly fans.

Right now he's their starting 4, but to me it's a total gimmick and he'll regress back if he's forced to stay in this role.

[Ronito]

If only Ekpe Udoh could rebound.

[NyCeEvO]

I don't get why people are saying that Nene is not a good defender.

If you just do the eye test and don't look up any numbers, you can tell that he rotates very well and is an agile, mobile big man.

He's not as offensively gifted as Pau, but he can his midrange jumper consistently and his rotations are way better than Pau.

So here's Nene's defense RAPM for the past few seasons along with some top defenders:

2010-11
D12: 7.2
TD: 5.0
KG: 5.0
Josh Smith: 4.8
Nene: 4.0
Chandler: 4.0
Millsap: 2.5
Hump: 1.8

2011-12
D12: 7.4
TD: 5.6
Josh Smith: 4.9
Chandler: 4.8
Asik: 4.7
KG: 4.6
Marc Gasol: 4.6
Ibaka: 3.8
Nene: 3.5 (Nene only played 39 games last season, and therefore the number of defensive possesions he factored into this low number)
Millsap: 3.2
Hump: 1.6

IF healthy, (and it really hinges upon IF) Nene is a much better offensive and defensive player than Hump. His defensive RAPM numbers are hanging near some of the more well-known good defenders in the league.

Even though Millsap is not a great defender, he's still better than Hump offensively and defensively.

Our squad hasn't come anywhere close to playing at their max potential level, especially offensively. If JJ ever gets going along with Brook, having a PnP/PnR PF like Millsap would almost certainly be the weight that broke the camel's back when it comes to the opposition defending our players.

Only the Heat would really have a lineup that could possibly guard 4 offensively skilled players at the same time and even at that, they would need to be on the top of their game.

On top of that, both Millsap and Nene would improve our defense, so we'd get even better on that end.



Which brings me to my next point....several of you guys don't want to a deal because a) you won't get a star in return b) you think that there will be a great trade later on down the road that will come up.

While no one can really have a definitive answer for b since we don't know the future, we certainly know that is A is a very remote possibility.

When Dwight opted in, that officially ended the superteam dream. We need to move on and start moving towards having a collection of good players rather than a few superstars.

We only have Hump's deal for this year and next year, and chances are many teams will be able to put together better offers than Hump/Brooks/Tele/picks in 2014 when some great players are becoming free agents. We're well over the cap so we can't really scare teams by threatening to just sign the talent outright AND we won't be able to do S&Ts anymore so that puts a damper into things as well.

We won't have any money to spend, high drafts picks to entice teams with star upcoming free agents, or very good expendable players that other teams are clamoring to get.

Our assets are limited and therefore the likelihood of us getting great players is limited as well.

We've already locked ourselves in for the next 4 seasons and some of us are afraid that not getting a star player won't give us a puncher's chance to win it all. Well, we're still winning despite playing ugly games and we're not close to seeing what the cap of our potential.

If we can get to the ECF with this lineup, I don't see why the addition of Millsap or a healthy Nene can't push us over. They're good players and definitely better than Hump.

We're only 13 games into the season, so I can't imagine a trade happening away. However, when we get past December 15th (or January 15th especially), we'll not only have a good idea as to whether this team can consistently play well enough to be a 2nd round team, we'll also see if having a PF like Nene or Millsap would make us elite.

[JerseysFinest]

What do you guys think of this trade?

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6166090

Fits in with the Nene-Millsap concept being thrown around in the thread, and the Henderson inclusion was influenced by VC4P's trade proposal in the trade thread a few days back. Makes sense with Charlotte going forward with their young wings guys like MKG, Taylor, Reggie Williams, etc. Nets would probably send a 1st to Washington as well. Washington also gets a nice expiring with Diop and a decent young piece in MarShon to add to their core and tank for another draft pick.

[vincecarter4pres]

Like it. Not sure if Charlotte wants that extra year of Hump's deal though, but that's solid all around.

Maybe they get a first as well and Toko stays here?

[JerseysFinest]

My logic for that was since they were willing to give Humphries a 3 year,$24 million dollar deal, they'd accept the extra year. Sending a draft pick to Charlotte probably gives them more incentive to do the deal, Toko is more of a throw in more than anything. Pretty much makes a lot of sense for all sides since the Wizards get a nice rebuilding package for Nene, the Bobcats get salary cap relief for next year and a player they wanted in the summer, and the Nets get a player that they could surely use at the 4 and a Darvin Ham-esque player a la Detroit Pistons of '04 type player. His first name is Gerald as well!