The Official Lin Net Thread

[steady]

No one is saying that the Nets will win the NBA championship. Some of us are saying that the Nets could win 30.

Yeah, that's where I am too.

[steady]

Re the marketing of Lin, market away - this is NYC after all. But don't go overboard with it like its the second coming of Linsanity, have some judgment about it so it doesn't boomerang and become a distraction

And don't be like it should make the Lin fans happy to have his face plastered all over Brklyn - like someone posted -- cause that's not where Lin's mind is at - he didn't comv to Brklyn to make money - he came to help you guys win.

[Prokorov]

Re the marketing of Lin, market away - this is NYC after all. But don't go overboard with it like its the second coming of Linsanity, have some judgment about it so it doesn't boomerang and become a distraction

And don't be like it should make the Lin fans happy to have his face plastered all over Brklyn - like someone posted -- cause that's not where Lin's mind is at - he didn't comv to Brklyn to make money - he came to help you guys win.

I dont think winning is in the cards anytime soon. hopefully in a few years. until then he real value is bringing in fans and helpng younger guys develop.

and a distraction is what this team and fanbase need. distraction is better then the stench of a 61 loss season. i dont get why people dont want lin to be marketed, id think his fans would want that? its a good thing with no negatives

[m40]

saying lin is better then harden isnt an opinion... its a delusion.

you can say that the earth is flat or that the sun doesnt rise in the east. that doesnt make those opinions, it makes you blind to reality.

anyhow this is what i was referring to.... "bashing lin" only consists of pointing our that elite top 10 players are better then him

HERE WE GO! Its delusional in your opinion. They think the same way, saying harden is better than lin isn't an opinion, its a delusion.
ANY YOU SHOULD NOT USE HARDEN CURRENT STATS TO COMPARE, TRY COMPARING THEM WHEN THEY WERE COMING OFF BENCH. WHO IS DELUSIONAL NOW?

Harden being better then Lin is a statistical fact, not a delusion.

The fact that Lin comes off the bench and harden doesnt is moree evidence as to harden being better... that shouldnt be thrown out so we can compare lin to what Hardend id as a 2nd or 3rd year guy on the thunder,... and even then, hardens numbers destroy Lins.

Harden was ABSURD his last year with OKC coming off the bench. he had one the best seasons a player has had off the bench in the modern era:

19/4/4
66.0 TS% (no, thats not a typo)
22 PER
1.25 Points per possession (again, not a typo)
39% from three
+7.82 ORPM (not a typo)
9.3 WS
19.3 assist percentage

Lin last year off the bench:

12/3/3
53.4 TS%
13.8 PER
1.02 points per possesions
33.6% from three
- 0.65 (negative)
3.5 WS
18.6 assist percentage

So please stop with this utter and complete nonsense. Lin isnt in the same statosphere as james harden. And even in this crazy world were we have to go back 4 years to when harden came off the bench and use those numbers, he still destroys lin by insane margins.

if you want to be taken seriously you need to be objective and accept the facts. its fine to be pro lin, or even be a lin homer... but there is a difference between that and saying he is a better playmaker then an MVP candidate

I'm not sure what the point is to compare Lin with harden, they are different types of players

If it needs to compare, Lin is his prime age with better def than harden while harden still had a great all star level scoring but really awful def (worse than when he was in OKC). Harden was top 6sixth man in the decade but get downgraded in last year while Lin has his improvement over years. So right now their margin is not that significant. I think it's a fair conclusion based on last year performance.

[Prokorov]

I'm not sure what the point is to compare Lin with harden, they are different types of players

i didnt bring up the comparison, just pointing out how wildly and grossly inaccuate it is.

If it needs to compare, Lin is his prime age with better def than harden while harden still had a great all star level scoring but really awful def (worse than when he was in OKC). Harden was top 6sixth man in the decade but get downgraded in last year while Lin has his improvement over years. So right now their margin is not that significant. I think it's a fair conclusion based on last year performance.

no its not a fair conclusion. not close. the difference between harden and lin offensively is MUCH MUCH bigger then the defense between the two defensively.

Lin is average offensively. Harden is Elite offensively, Historic levels of scoring efficiency. to say harden declined and lin is getting better is also incredibly misleading. as even with a slip in numbers harden is still elite offensively and even with a bump in numbers lin is just average.

it isnt even close. and its silly to even compare them, since harden is so drastically better.

[steady]

Re the marketing of Lin, market away - this is NYC after all. But don't go overboard with it like its the second coming of Linsanity, have some judgment about it so it doesn't boomerang and become a distraction

And don't be like it should make the Lin fans happy to have his face plastered all over Brklyn - like someone posted -- cause that's not where Lin's mind is at - he didn't comv to Brklyn to make money - he came to help you guys win.

I dont think winning is in the cards anytime soon. hopefully in a few years. until then he real value is bringing in fans and helpng younger guys develop.

and a distraction is what this team and fanbase need. distraction is better then the stench of a 61 loss season. i dont get why people dont want lin to be marketed, id think his fans would want that? its a good thing with no negatives

I think he came to Brklyn because he wanted to help Atkinson succeed and he also wanted the opportunity to see what his potential as a player could be, with the minutes and training he would get in Brklyn.

Frankly Linsanity has more often been heavy baggage for him than anything good. Lin's not an all star player right now and may never be - for Nets to go overboard and market him as a superstar - if they do this - would just look foolish. His fans will come to ganes and follow him regardless.

[Prokorov]

I think he came to Brklyn because he wanted to help Atkinson succeed and he also wanted the opportunity to see what his potential as a player could be, with the minutes and training he would get in Brklyn.

I agree, i think the big draws for him where playing time and the market size.

Frankly Linsanity has more often been heavy baggage for him than anything good. Lin's not an all star player right now and may never be - for Nets to go overboard and market him as a superstar - if they do this - would just look foolish. His fans will come to ganes and follow him regardless.

nets would be smart to market him heavily... it will help sell tickets. which is what this team needs. attendance and fans. we didnt have a huge fanbase to begin with and lost a ton during the king era and brooklyn move. part of lins value is to draw in new fans and hell sell tickets. and there is nothing negative about that.

[Mosdefinition]

Re the marketing of Lin, market away - this is NYC after all. But don't go overboard with it like its the second coming of Linsanity, have some judgment about it so it doesn't boomerang and become a distraction

And don't be like it should make the Lin fans happy to have his face plastered all over Brklyn - like someone posted -- cause that's not where Lin's mind is at - he didn't comv to Brklyn to make money - he came to help you guys win.

I dont think winning is in the cards anytime soon. hopefully in a few years. until then he real value is bringing in fans and helpng younger guys develop.

and a distraction is what this team and fanbase need. distraction is better then the stench of a 61 loss season. i dont get why people dont want lin to be marketed, id think his fans would want that? its a good thing with no negatives

yormarket has a job to do i say do it

if lin fans fill the arena and make the building loud go for it

i will probably go to 2 or 3 early games then depending on if they are bearable to watch 5 late in the season

last season i have to say no matter how bad they were that team played hard till the last game of the season and tony brown deserves a lot of credit for that

[steady]

Lin must know Nets will lose vast majority of games this year, it’s going to be interesting to see him handle this. He hates losing. He really hates it. It won’t be as bad as Lakers’ year because he at least believes in the system and the coach in Brooklyn. But man.

He is used to winning. Of the four teams (Knicks, Rockets, Lakers, Hornets) that Lin has played substantial minutes for, none of the them were expected to go to the playoffs, and all but the Lakers did.

In Charlotte, after MKG went down, Charlotte was expected to be 25th in the League last year, they ended up being tied for 3rd in terms of wins in Eastern Conference. The year Lin joined the Rockets, they were expected to be 21st in the League even after Harden joined, and they made the playoffs and were seen as one of up and coming new teams.

Both teams also went through huge roster overhauls the year Lin signed. Hornets changed their entire direction offensively, and added 6 new rotation players: Batum, Lin, Lee, Kaminsky, Lamb, Hawes. Rockets did an even more complete roster tear down and build up the year Lin arrived, with only 3 players left from their prior roster.

So Lin is used to teams going through roster overhauls, but he is used to winning with those teams. It has just worked out that way, he has been very lucky/blessed. So this year will be a new experience for him. If everything breaks RIGHT for them, the Nets will win about 30 games. Man.

-
I would definitely be in Barclays if I still lived in Brooklyn though. Just to see what Lin and Atkinson put together. Atkinson’s system seems good based on what we’ve seen in summer league, and the young guys seem to have bought in. That’s a good first step.

[Prokorov]

yormarket has a job to do i say do it

if lin fans fill the arena and make the building loud go for it

i will probably go to 2 or 3 early games then depending on if they are bearable to watch 5 late in the season

last season i have to say no matter how bad they were that team played hard till the last game of the season and tony brown deserves a lot of credit for that

you can make the argument that lins best chance to help us win isnt with his oncourt play, but his popularity helping sellout the building giving us a real homecourt advantage.

it didnt help last year when opposing fans were louder then net fans. or having NET fans cheer more for rubio then their own team

[Kswiss]

yormarket has a job to do i say do it

if lin fans fill the arena and make the building loud go for it

i will probably go to 2 or 3 early games then depending on if they are bearable to watch 5 late in the season

last season i have to say no matter how bad they were that team played hard till the last game of the season and tony brown deserves a lot of credit for that

you can make the argument that lins best chance to help us win isnt with his oncourt play, but his popularity helping sellout the building giving us a real homecourt advantage.

it didnt help last year when opposing fans were louder then net fans. or having NET fans cheer more for rubio then their own team

I agree it's like when Lebron went to Cleveland, who cares about the wins, it's all about the popularity he brought, that's the biggest contribution he made. I think a lot of us are focusing too much on the basketball. We should be more like Prokorov over here, really sharp guy! Believes Rondo is still a good PG. Also Harden's a great two-way player and the difference between his and Lin's defense isn't that noticeable. Lot of good insight

[imanshar]

They really don't need to market Lin, all they need is for Lin to score 30+ in couple of impressive wins and the fans will tune in.

[steady]

yormarket has a job to do i say do it

if lin fans fill the arena and make the building loud go for it

i will probably go to 2 or 3 early games then depending on if they are bearable to watch 5 late in the season

last season i have to say no matter how bad they were that team played hard till the last game of the season and tony brown deserves a lot of credit for that

you can make the argument that lins best chance to help us win isnt with his oncourt play, but his popularity helping sellout the building giving us a real homecourt advantage.

it didnt help last year when opposing fans were louder then net fans. or having NET fans cheer more for rubio then their own team

He's going to help the Nets out in both areas I hope.

I really hope you guys get good crowds at Barclays this year. I heard Howard Beck talking about the gloomy empty feeling at Barclays last year and it sounded like a real bummer.

[lleepar]

Lin must know Nets will lose vast majority of games this year, it’s going to be interesting to see him handle this. He hates losing. He really hates it. It won’t be as bad as Lakers’ year because he at least believes in the system and the coach in Brooklyn. But man.

He is used to winning. Of the four teams (Knicks, Rockets, Lakers, Hornets) that Lin has played substantial minutes for, none of the them were expected to go to the playoffs, and all but the Lakers did.

In Charlotte, after MKG went down, Charlotte was expected to be 25th in the League last year, they ended up being tied for 3rd in terms of wins in Eastern Conference. The year Lin joined the Rockets, they were expected to be 21st in the League even after Harden joined, and they made the playoffs and were seen as one of up and coming new teams.

Both teams also went through huge roster overhauls the year Lin signed. Hornets changed their entire direction offensively, and added 6 new rotation players: Batum, Lin, Lee, Kaminsky, Lamb, Hawes. Rockets did an even more complete roster tear down and build up the year Lin arrived, with only 3 players left from their prior roster.

So Lin is used to teams going through roster overhauls, but he is used to winning with those teams. It has just worked out that way, he has been very lucky/blessed. So this year will be a new experience for him. If everything breaks RIGHT for them, the Nets will win about 30 games. Man.

-
I would definitely be in Barclays if I still lived in Brooklyn though. Just to see what Lin and Atkinson put together. Atkinson’s system seems good based on what we’ve seen in summer league, and the young guys seem to have bought in. That’s a good first step.

Los Angeles was soul-sapping. Lin's played for losing teams before, but never for one where losing was not only the team culture, but it's mandate. Any time he started tying the score, he'd get benched. Jeremy and Ed Davis started teaming up and putting on a scoring show. Coach Scott finally made sure they were never on the court at the same time.

Charlotte was also considered a losing team, but at least they wanted to win. It was a good place for Jeremy. He knew they had already invested in their point guard for the long term, but if they wanted to win, he wanted to help. He was used as sort of a Swiss army knife. If the starter's shots weren't falling, he'd be brought in to score in the paint. If the starters were getting smothered by the defense, he'd be brought in to draw off the defense. If Batum was out, Jeremy would be brought in to distribute and set Kemba up to score. If the other team was scoring too much, Coach Clifford would bring him in to defend whichever guard was putting up the most shots.

I know Jeremy was comfortable there. Charlotte gave him the opportunity to retool his shot release, knowing he'd be a little less consistent scoring outside the paint until he got the new release locked in. But I don't think Jeremy would be content in a safe and comfortable role for long. Sooner or later he'd want to test himself again.

He knows what he's facing in Brooklyn. But Atkinson worked tirelessly to help him survive during Linsanity, and now Jeremy wants to do everything he can to help Atkinson survive and thrive. They may both flame out -- but not for lack of giving it everything they have to give.
.

[Manitoba]

and yes....we are depressed fanbase. Well I'll only speak for myself but yes, I'm a depressed Nets fan. I actually found the optimism from some of the Lin fans to be a bit funny. Like you have no idea what kind of horror awaits you all. Nothing good ever happens for the Nets. Even when something appears like its going good, the other shoe will drop soon after and we're right back in the dirt.

There may be something to cheer about. The Nets have now filled their PG and center positions. Isn't the common wisdom that the 1 and the 5 are the hardest positions to fill? Well, the Nets have done it. So probably 70% of the battle is already won. That should be something to be optimistic about.

I guess from an outsiders perspective this seems logical... the problem is brook has been here 8 seasons, and we know the ceiling with him. When he had dwill(the all-star 20/10 version) and Joe early on, we got to 49 wins. once dwill declined to being an average player we topped out at 38 wins. Lopez is a really good player. borderline all-star. but he only gets you so far. we need alot more talent around him to win. Lopez is better off as your 3rd best player or "2B" option if you plan to be a good solid playoff team. or you need an all-star stud PG, like what dwill was the second half of 2013.

the other issue is Lopez and Lin are both 28. at the end of their contract they will both be 31. i can see us not extending either and going with youth as we will have our picks back by then. so who knows if this is a long term option or a 3 year hold over.

Either way, Lin/Brook is a nice 1-5 combo... if you have talent 2 through 4. we have bench players 2 through 4. and no shooting.

but most of all, the nets lack 2 way players:

bogs doesnt defend
RHJ has no offense
booker has no offense
lopez himself is a mediocure defender who cant switch on to smalls and struggles with stamina
Kilpatrick doesnt defend

basically, Lin and CMC are our only 2 way players, and neither is great on either end. this killed us last year as itleaves you with a weak link(s) no matter if you are on offense or defense

Your gloom is unjustified as yet, because the team isn't a finished work this summer. The FA period has just started.

As I said, we already have good people at the 1 and 5, so we've already won like 70% of the battle.

We now have the capspace to max out somebody like Moe Harkless. And how many teams have enough talent at center and PG to make us pay for Brook's defensive problems and Lin's occasional lapses at D? Four, maybe five? Against the rest of the league, I can definitely see a Brook-Lin-Harkless combo doing serious damage.

Remember, we're just gunning for the playoffs next year; we're not dreaming (yet) of dominating the rest of the NBA. Relative to the more modest goal, I think we're justified in being somewhat optimistic.

[haoafu]

One thing I'm not sure about is how good a PNR partner Brook is, given that he's pretty slow footed. Lin excels in PNR offense, and is just average otherwise.

[Tim Horton]

i read that Brook is an effective PnR partner. Nash-Amare-Lite anybody?

[Prokorov]

yormarket has a job to do i say do it

if lin fans fill the arena and make the building loud go for it

i will probably go to 2 or 3 early games then depending on if they are bearable to watch 5 late in the season

last season i have to say no matter how bad they were that team played hard till the last game of the season and tony brown deserves a lot of credit for that

you can make the argument that lins best chance to help us win isnt with his oncourt play, but his popularity helping sellout the building giving us a real homecourt advantage.

it didnt help last year when opposing fans were louder then net fans. or having NET fans cheer more for rubio then their own team

I agree it's like when Lebron went to Cleveland, who cares about the wins, it's all about the popularity he brought, that's the biggest contribution he made. I think a lot of us are focusing too much on the basketball. We should be more like Prokorov over here, really sharp guy! Believes Rondo is still a good PG. Also Harden's a great two-way player and the difference between his and Lin's defense isn't that noticeable. Lot of good insight

Talk about putting words in my mouth combined with alot of misguided info... where do i even start:

1) Lebrons impact can not be compared to Lin. Lebron is a top 2 player who can go to any team and instantly make them a contender. his oncourt impact is always bigger then any fan draw he brings. your use of hyperbole here is a veiled attempt at sarcasm and trying to prove Lins oncourt impact is greater then it is. he will improve us, but he cant turn a 20 win team to a contender like a lebron would.

2) There is alot of value in having sellout crowds and a home court advantage. I'm a season ticket holder. I know how abysmal nets crowds are... they were even poor in the playoffs vs atlanta/chicago/toronto/miami. If Lin can take us from no fanbase to having sellouts and a loud home crowd, that has a really big impact on the game, and may help us win games and down the stretch of games. i dont think that it is at all out of line to suggest him generating sellouts/a rabid home court would have more impact then an 18/8 type season on the floor would considering the lack of talent on the roster around him and brook

3) Rajon Rondo IS still a good player. He did just lead the NBA in assists and was one of just 11 players to average a double-double. he might not be a top 10 PG or all-star anymore, but he is certainly a good player. 12 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals 37% from three, 17 PER. again no star but he is certainly a good player and the leagues top assist man not just in volume but percentage (48% assist rate). he was also 4th in hockey assists. so he isnt hurting ball movement either.

4) Please quote where i said harden is a great two way player. newsflash: i didnt. Please quote where i said the difference between his and lins defense isnt noticeable. again, i didnt. what i DID say was that the gap between hardens and lins offense is much much greater then the gap between harden and lins defense. which it is, and by a huge margin... this is evidenced by Harden being so much higher in RAPM/RPM/WS/PPP as opposed to Lin. Harden has an enormous impact despite his defense, because his offense is so elite.

it is not debateable that harden is a much better player then lin, with a much bigger impact on the floor. These are not my opinions, they are statistical facts.

you can knock my insight... but you really provide zero substance with your post other then a weak attempt at sarcasm.

[rallydurham]

I think Lin will post big numbers because they're gonna have to run EVERYTHING through him and lopez.

I honestly don't think 20 and 8 is out of the questio. Realistically though 16 and 7 is probably pretty close to accurate.

I can't see any where they crack 30 wins though.

I'd be pretty surprised if the Nets don't end up with the worst record in the league. This team might not win 30 games with Harden and Lin being swapped

[Travers]

There may be something to cheer about. The Nets have now filled their PG and center positions. Isn't the common wisdom that the 1 and the 5 are the hardest positions to fill? Well, the Nets have done it. So probably 70% of the battle is already won. That should be something to be optimistic about.

Even the craziest fan would never believe Leicester city would have won the Premier League title last year. But turnout Leicester City won it with good margin. Talent is important, but teamwork, chemistry and coaching also count.

Nets maybe looks worse on the talent side, but I believe most players in NBA can play or they won't be in the league. Some guys look like scrubs only because they are lacking chance, in the wrong system or even poorly coached, Lin, Whiteside, TJ are some of the examples. That said, Net's talent side can be better than what we think it is.

Guys might not know that Lin's Knicks without Carmelo was the best defensive team in the league. And only Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert are the proven talents among the group. Others are like Novak, Landry Fields, Bill Walker, Jare Jeffery, and Tony Douglas like players. Yet, these group of players played the best basketball, and was the best defensive team in that stretch.

I am not saying the team is going to win many games in the coming year, but there's chance the team being competitive when everyone is buying in and playing right basketball.

this isnt soccer, its basketball. and talent is the first, second, and third most important thing.

its not a coincidence that Lebron/curry made the last 2 finals. or that lebron has made it to 6 finals in a row. or that durant/westbrook were in the conference finals.

there is a reason we won 21 games last year and it wasnt chemistry. it was lack of talent.

See the success LBJ gets and the struggles Melo has been, you will know the difference.
Teamwork, chemistry and coaching is as important as talent, every great player mentioned that, every great coach and great team proved that. Or you think you know more than those great players and coaches, or you think you know more about basketball than Gregg Popovich.