The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

[Vae Victus]

I dont view it as calculated risk. I think marks thinks he has allstar potential. You dont pay someone that kind of money based on nothing (when marks offered him that deal he put up joe harris numbers) or a risk. I dont know how much value crabbe has considering outside of us teams wanted at least 1 first to take him on (people on this board wanted TWO firsts to take him on - check the trade thread)

I'm not going to comment on the otto porter thing other then to say he was better in every facet of the game, younger, higher draft stock and not an awful defender. i was like 90-100% against otto porter, but he is significantly better then crabbe and younger

Levert is probably already better then crabbe on both ends of the floor and younger. I dont see how crabbe makes him expendable. probably the other way around. typically you keep the younger/better/cheaper player. I dont see anything to suggest crabbe can be an allstar.

I dont really want to make this a bitchfest about crabbe because i have no issue with him. he isnt some dog or bad guy off the floor and his skills fit what we do on offense and he deserves a chane to show he can be better then a liability on defense.

my issue has never been with crabbe here, its with marks. if we had crabbe for MLE type money this is a non issue. I mean forget the harris comparisons is he really worth 3 times jaymichael green?

Well thats the calculated risk. Crabbe becomes a star or not, no such thing as a guarantee.

As i said, Markinson sees something in Crabbe and hence decided to still pull the trigger on a trade a year later. Dumping Nicholson was a huge boon too as he was basically pure deadweight. I too was very leery acquiring, especially with both DLo and Levert on the roster (with SKil and Whitehead waiting in the wings), but as i said the FO must REALLY think they can make something out of Crabbe.

Still thought Nicholson may have been salvagable as a PF/C 4th big off the bench.

Really wanted JaMychal Green for cheap, as clearly his market was never there.

Crabbe deal i'd be more on board if a future 1st also came back but alas, it wasnt so.

For the most part i agreed with you that getting Crabbe, wasnt ideal, and now the backcourt is overloaded (likely Lin being the odd man out next offseason, a pity). Frontcourt is thin, so things are gonna be interesting to see what moves the FO wil lmake over the year to rectify it.

[Prokorov]

Well thats the calculated risk. Crabbe becomes a star or not, no such thing as a guarantee.

To me taking a former 2nd round pick who had not shown much in 3 years (when marks offered him that big offer sheet his numbers were similar to what harris did last year) a 19 million dollar a year 4 year contract is not at all calculated.

To me a calculated risk is trading a first and taking on bad salary in mozgov to hope a #2 overall pick will thrive in a more player friendly atmosphere (d'angelo russel). thats a calculated risk.

Paying an unproven 2nd round pick who didnt show much in 3 seasons an enormous gauranteed deal. to me that borders on just having like an infatuation with the player. in most scenarios you would be betting your job on that move. here not so much since its such a long rebuild, but thats not a risk. thats just a flat out massive overpay. What does crabbe get you that you cant get out of harris and Carroll for less money?

As i said, Markinson sees something in Crabbe and hence decided to still pull the trigger on a trade a year later. Dumping Nicholson was a huge boon too as he was basically pure deadweight. I too was very leery acquiring, especially with both DLo and Levert on the roster (with SKil and Whitehead waiting in the wings), but as i said the FO must REALLY think they can make something out of Crabbe.

Yes, they must see him as sure bet borderline all-star/better version of reddick. I personally dont see it. time will tell

Really wanted JaMychal Green for cheap, as clearly his market was never there.

I'm not a big green fan but he is better then crabbe although a year or two older and makes fractions what crabbe makes with 1 less year on the deal. to me thats a move you make over crabbe 10 times out of 10.

Crabbe deal i'd be more on board if a future 1st also came back but alas, it wasnt so.

For the most part i agreed with you that getting Crabbe, wasnt ideal, and now the backcourt is overloaded (likely Lin being the odd man out next offseason, a pity). Frontcourt is thin, so things are gonna be interesting to see what moves the FO wil lmake over the year to rectify it.

Yeah, i mean id have been cool with the deal with a lotto pick attached or a pick in the teens. i dont dislike crabbe. i think he fits. i just despise his contract for what to me is a lock career role player

[Vae Victus]

Saying that Allen Crabbe hasnt shown much in his career before getting his fat deal is disingenuous.

He's shown he's an elite 3pt shooter, not too much else, but he can hit 3s with the best of them. Yes yes i know youll then counter with the whole, he's not a true shooter in the vein of Reddick or DLo cuz he doesnt do em off the dribble much (hell neither does Reddick who's mostly C&S too) or increased volume. However from what we've seen in preseason in that 1 game, its clear he can catch & shoot with the best of em and can take a coupla dribbles before launching, so your normal spiel of him not being a true shooter rings hollow.

Now his defense and playmaking. Well those are definite concerns, one hopes with a larger role on the team he picks up his intensity. He used his length nicely in that preseason game, so there's optimism on that end. Playmaking wise, if he wants to start at SG then he needs to really work hard there.

One huge thing with Crabbe being here, even though he's starting on the bench, he feels he can TAKE someone's lunch in the starting lineup. Whether its Lin, DLo, or DMC, i bet he feels that he'll EARN that spot soon enough, unlike playing in POR where he has no chance at overtaking CJ for starting SG and the team preferring others to play at SF and using him as the decoy only.

Im confident Crabbe will get better, all-star worthy? No. But on a rebuilding team like this, just adding value to players via development and trading em off for future upgrades is still a win.

[Prokorov]

Saying that Allen Crabbe hasnt shown much in his career before getting his fat deal is disingenuous.

He's shown he's an elite 3pt shooter, not too much else, but he can hit 3s with the best of them. Yes yes i know youll then counter with the whole, he's not a true shooter in the vein of Reddick or DLo cuz he doesnt do em off the dribble much (hell neither does Reddick who's mostly C&S too) or increased volume. However from what we've seen in preseason in that 1 game, its clear he can catch & shoot with the best of em and can take a coupla dribbles before launching, so your normal spiel of him not being a true shooter rings hollow.

Did he show that? prior to his big contract offer from marks he shot: 39.3% and 35.3% from three and it was on pretty low volume. (1.7 Attempts and 3.5 attempts respectively). im sorry but that is NOT elite. its certainly good, especially 39.3 on 3.5 attempts. but certainly not elite.

I'm sorry, but i put ZERO value in 1 game, let alone 1 preseason game. Especially when we have 3+ years to go on. Crabbe showed nothing to warrant that contract marks offered him. And even if he had done what he did last year prior to getting the contract it would still be a monumental overpay for someone who is just a role shooter.

Now his defense and playmaking. Well those are definite concerns, one hopes with a larger role on the team he picks up his intensity. He used his length nicely in that preseason game, so there's optimism on that end. Playmaking wise, if he wants to start at SG then he needs to really work hard there.

he deserves the chance to prove his 3-4 season of awful defense can be improved on. but 1 preseason game shouldnt even be remotely considered into this, its meaningless

One huge thing with Crabbe being here, even though he's starting on the bench, he feels he can TAKE someone's lunch in the starting lineup. Whether its Lin, DLo, or DMC, i bet he feels that he'll EARN that spot soon enough, unlike playing in POR where he has no chance at overtaking CJ for starting SG and the team preferring others to play at SF and using him as the decoy only.

Im confident Crabbe will get better, all-star worthy? No. But on a rebuilding team like this, just adding value to players via development and trading em off for future upgrades is still a win.

i dont think he will ever be more then a nuetral trade asset and if i had to rank he is probably the 4th or 5th worst contract in the league. we would need pay someone to take him off our hands at this point. maybe once he is a large expiring he becomes nuetral value. but thats not worth 2-3 years off tying up your cap.

I've been SUPER pro marks for the most part. but this was a huge mis step. i haded the original RFA offer and i hate getting him in the trade.

Crabbe can contribute for sure. but it was a bad move salary wise. we could have likely done alot better using that money to aquire assets or just to have flexibility after big extensions to our young guys

[Curns13]

Well thats the calculated risk. Crabbe becomes a star or not, no such thing as a guarantee.

To me taking a former 2nd round pick who had not shown much in 3 years (when marks offered him that big offer sheet his numbers were similar to what harris did last year) a 19 million dollar a year 4 year contract is not at all calculated.

To me a calculated risk is trading a first and taking on bad salary in mozgov to hope a #2 overall pick will thrive in a more player friendly atmosphere (d'angelo russel). thats a calculated risk.

Paying an unproven 2nd round pick who didnt show much in 3 seasons an enormous gauranteed deal. to me that borders on just having like an infatuation with the player. in most scenarios you would be betting your job on that move. here not so much since its such a long rebuild, but thats not a risk. thats just a flat out massive overpay. What does crabbe get you that you cant get out of harris and Carroll for less money?

As i said, Markinson sees something in Crabbe and hence decided to still pull the trigger on a trade a year later. Dumping Nicholson was a huge boon too as he was basically pure deadweight. I too was very leery acquiring, especially with both DLo and Levert on the roster (with SKil and Whitehead waiting in the wings), but as i said the FO must REALLY think they can make something out of Crabbe.

Yes, they must see him as sure bet borderline all-star/better version of reddick. I personally dont see it. time will tell

Really wanted JaMychal Green for cheap, as clearly his market was never there.

I'm not a big green fan but he is better then crabbe although a year or two older and makes fractions what crabbe makes with 1 less year on the deal. to me thats a move you make over crabbe 10 times out of 10.

Crabbe deal i'd be more on board if a future 1st also came back but alas, it wasnt so.

For the most part i agreed with you that getting Crabbe, wasnt ideal, and now the backcourt is overloaded (likely Lin being the odd man out next offseason, a pity). Frontcourt is thin, so things are gonna be interesting to see what moves the FO wil lmake over the year to rectify it.

Yeah, i mean id have been cool with the deal with a lotto pick attached or a pick in the teens. i dont dislike crabbe. i think he fits. i just despise his contract for what to me is a lock career role player

I agree that Crabbe hasn't yet shown he is worth $19M a year and he may never. But I disagree with your idea that $19M money means you have to be an All Star or even borderline AS. JJ Redick has never sniffed an AS game and he is earning $23M this year. If he was 5 years younger he would have got more than a 5 yr $100M contract. Crabbe is not as good as Redick but I think there is a chance he could be. There is no doubt he is overpaid, but $19M is no longer AS money.

[Prokorov]

Well thats the calculated risk. Crabbe becomes a star or not, no such thing as a guarantee.

To me taking a former 2nd round pick who had not shown much in 3 years (when marks offered him that big offer sheet his numbers were similar to what harris did last year) a 19 million dollar a year 4 year contract is not at all calculated.

To me a calculated risk is trading a first and taking on bad salary in mozgov to hope a #2 overall pick will thrive in a more player friendly atmosphere (d'angelo russel). thats a calculated risk.

Paying an unproven 2nd round pick who didnt show much in 3 seasons an enormous gauranteed deal. to me that borders on just having like an infatuation with the player. in most scenarios you would be betting your job on that move. here not so much since its such a long rebuild, but thats not a risk. thats just a flat out massive overpay. What does crabbe get you that you cant get out of harris and Carroll for less money?

As i said, Markinson sees something in Crabbe and hence decided to still pull the trigger on a trade a year later. Dumping Nicholson was a huge boon too as he was basically pure deadweight. I too was very leery acquiring, especially with both DLo and Levert on the roster (with SKil and Whitehead waiting in the wings), but as i said the FO must REALLY think they can make something out of Crabbe.

Yes, they must see him as sure bet borderline all-star/better version of reddick. I personally dont see it. time will tell

Really wanted JaMychal Green for cheap, as clearly his market was never there.

I'm not a big green fan but he is better then crabbe although a year or two older and makes fractions what crabbe makes with 1 less year on the deal. to me thats a move you make over crabbe 10 times out of 10.

Crabbe deal i'd be more on board if a future 1st also came back but alas, it wasnt so.

For the most part i agreed with you that getting Crabbe, wasnt ideal, and now the backcourt is overloaded (likely Lin being the odd man out next offseason, a pity). Frontcourt is thin, so things are gonna be interesting to see what moves the FO wil lmake over the year to rectify it.

Yeah, i mean id have been cool with the deal with a lotto pick attached or a pick in the teens. i dont dislike crabbe. i think he fits. i just despise his contract for what to me is a lock career role player

I agree that Crabbe hasn't yet shown he is worth $19M a year and he may never. But I disagree with your idea that $19M money means you have to be an All Star or even borderline AS. JJ Redick has never sniffed an AS game and he is earning $23M this year. If he was 5 years younger he would have got more than a 5 yr $100M contract. Crabbe is not as good as Redick but I think there is a chance he could be. There is no doubt he is overpaid, but $19M is no longer AS money.

reddick isnt an allsar but he has allstar impact on offense as one of the only elite shooters who is still elite off the dribble and off the screen. if crabbe can get to that on high volume he can earn his money. few guys in history can do it how reddick has

[Netaman]

The Crabbe contract argument is so tired. At this point I don't think there's anything left to say until we see how he does in this system. At 25 years old I don't think he's a finished product and in the 2 games he's played his defense has certainly looked better than the overdramatic "worst defender in the NBA" claims. They picked him up after exhausting free agency and the trade market so unless anyone prefers that those minutes get invested in older players with less talent (Harris, Kilpatrick, Foye!!!!) why not put the contract discussion to the side? It's basically irrelevant until the offseason anyway.

[Prokorov]

The Crabbe contract argument is so tired. At this point I don't think there's anything left to say until we see how he does in this system. At 25 years old I don't think he's a finished product and in the 2 games he's played his defense has certainly looked better than the overdramatic "worst defender in the NBA" claims. They picked him up after exhausting free agency and the trade market so unless anyone prefers that those minutes get invested in older players with less talent (Harris, Kilpatrick, Foye!!!!) why not put the contract discussion to the side? It's basically irrelevant until the offseason anyway.

thats the thing. i dont think that harris is less talented. and there really isnt any evidence to really support otherwise. as far as "older" harris is like 8 months older. would id rather crabbes minutes go to harris while freeing up 19 million in cap room.

yes. that was always the point

[Curns13]

To me taking a former 2nd round pick who had not shown much in 3 years (when marks offered him that big offer sheet his numbers were similar to what harris did last year) a 19 million dollar a year 4 year contract is not at all calculated.

To me a calculated risk is trading a first and taking on bad salary in mozgov to hope a #2 overall pick will thrive in a more player friendly atmosphere (d'angelo russel). thats a calculated risk.

Paying an unproven 2nd round pick who didnt show much in 3 seasons an enormous gauranteed deal. to me that borders on just having like an infatuation with the player. in most scenarios you would be betting your job on that move. here not so much since its such a long rebuild, but thats not a risk. thats just a flat out massive overpay. What does crabbe get you that you cant get out of harris and Carroll for less money?



Yes, they must see him as sure bet borderline all-star/better version of reddick. I personally dont see it. time will tell



I'm not a big green fan but he is better then crabbe although a year or two older and makes fractions what crabbe makes with 1 less year on the deal. to me thats a move you make over crabbe 10 times out of 10.




Yeah, i mean id have been cool with the deal with a lotto pick attached or a pick in the teens. i dont dislike crabbe. i think he fits. i just despise his contract for what to me is a lock career role player

I agree that Crabbe hasn't yet shown he is worth $19M a year and he may never. But I disagree with your idea that $19M money means you have to be an All Star or even borderline AS. JJ Redick has never sniffed an AS game and he is earning $23M this year. If he was 5 years younger he would have got more than a 5 yr $100M contract. Crabbe is not as good as Redick but I think there is a chance he could be. There is no doubt he is overpaid, but $19M is no longer AS money.

reddick isnt an allsar but he has allstar impact on offense as one of the only elite shooters who is still elite off the dribble and off the screen. if crabbe can get to that on high volume he can earn his money. few guys in history can do it how reddick has

I agree with all you've said above and to do with having Harris take his role for $18M cheaper (unless Crabbe turns into the guy Kenny and Marks think he can be). But if Redick is a $25M a year (if he was 28 now) player who hasn't ever sniffed an AS game, than Crabbe at $19M a year doesnt have to be as good as Redick or be an AS to earn his money.

[Prokorov]

I agree with all you've said above and to do with having Harris take his role for $18M cheaper (unless Crabbe turns into the guy Kenny and Marks think he can be). But if Redick is a $25M a year (if he was 28 now) player who hasn't ever sniffed an AS game, than Crabbe at $19M a year doesnt have to be as good as Redick or be an AS to earn his money.

I mean, thats fair... but im also higher on Reddick to most. to me he is one of the most impactful offensive players in the league. VERY few players require double teams when they dont have the ball in their hands.

[DusterBuster]

Sorry guys, haven't bothered to follow this thread so apologies if this has already been answered, but what's the Nets plan for Crabbe with starting/bench role? I see from the previous two preseason games that he's been off the bench, is that the Nets plan for the regular season too?

[Netaman]

Sorry guys, haven't bothered to follow this thread so apologies if this has already been answered, but what's the Nets plan for Crabbe with starting/bench role? I see from the previous two preseason games that he's been off the bench, is that the Nets plan for the regular season too?

Seems like he'll start on the bench since Carroll has looked really good, but I think it's likely he still gets more minutes than Carroll overall. RHJ's hand injury could change things, but most likely Crabbe is going to start the season on the bench. He and Levert are basically the 6th men and figure to get close to 30 mpg most nights.

[DusterBuster]

Sorry guys, haven't bothered to follow this thread so apologies if this has already been answered, but what's the Nets plan for Crabbe with starting/bench role? I see from the previous two preseason games that he's been off the bench, is that the Nets plan for the regular season too?

Seems like he'll start on the bench since Carroll has looked really good, but I think it's likely he still gets more minutes than Carroll overall. RHJ's hand injury could change things, but most likely Crabbe is going to start the season on the bench. He and Levert are basically the 6th men and figure to get close to 30 mpg most nights.

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

[Ror1997]

Sorry guys, haven't bothered to follow this thread so apologies if this has already been answered, but what's the Nets plan for Crabbe with starting/bench role? I see from the previous two preseason games that he's been off the bench, is that the Nets plan for the regular season too?

Seems like he'll start on the bench since Carroll has looked really good, but I think it's likely he still gets more minutes than Carroll overall. RHJ's hand injury could change things, but most likely Crabbe is going to start the season on the bench. He and Levert are basically the 6th men and figure to get close to 30 mpg most nights.

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Same amount of Mins as a starter though. Our starters would be lucky to hit 32 mpg. He'll also get a bigger role in the offense in those mins.

[DusterBuster]

Seems like he'll start on the bench since Carroll has looked really good, but I think it's likely he still gets more minutes than Carroll overall. RHJ's hand injury could change things, but most likely Crabbe is going to start the season on the bench. He and Levert are basically the 6th men and figure to get close to 30 mpg most nights.

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Same amount of Mins as a starter though. Our starters would be lucky to hit 32 mpg. He'll also get a bigger role in the offense in those mins.

He got the same amount of starter minutes in Portland too. He was getting that same 30ish min per. So yeah, same role as he had in Portland.

[MrDollarBills]

Sorry guys, haven't bothered to follow this thread so apologies if this has already been answered, but what's the Nets plan for Crabbe with starting/bench role? I see from the previous two preseason games that he's been off the bench, is that the Nets plan for the regular season too?

Seems like he'll start on the bench since Carroll has looked really good, but I think it's likely he still gets more minutes than Carroll overall. RHJ's hand injury could change things, but most likely Crabbe is going to start the season on the bench. He and Levert are basically the 6th men and figure to get close to 30 mpg most nights.

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

He'll get his chance. His injury in the preseason kind of screwed him and it gave Carroll a chance to show that he is a better fit in the starting line up right now next to Hollis-Jefferson because they are both solid defenders. He'll still play the same amount of minutes as he would if he started due to our pace.

The goal is really for the team to transition to their core which is Russell/LeVert/Crabbe/Hollis-Jefferson/Allen

[DusterBuster]

Seems like he'll start on the bench since Carroll has looked really good, but I think it's likely he still gets more minutes than Carroll overall. RHJ's hand injury could change things, but most likely Crabbe is going to start the season on the bench. He and Levert are basically the 6th men and figure to get close to 30 mpg most nights.

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

He'll get his chance. His injury in the preseason kind of screwed him and it gave Carroll a chance to show that he is a better fit in the starting line up right now next to Hollis-Jefferson because they are both solid defenders. He'll still play the same amount of minutes as he would if he started due to our pace.

The goal is really for the team to transition to their core which is Russell/LeVert/Crabbe/Hollis-Jefferson/Allen

Well again, as I said, he's in the same role he had in Portland. He was getting starter level minutes with the Blazers coming off the bench as a 6th man as well. Thats disappointing for myself who wanted to see him in a new role. Hopefully the Nets transition him into that starting role sooner than later.

[steady]

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

He'll get his chance. His injury in the preseason kind of screwed him and it gave Carroll a chance to show that he is a better fit in the starting line up right now next to Hollis-Jefferson because they are both solid defenders. He'll still play the same amount of minutes as he would if he started due to our pace.

The goal is really for the team to transition to their core which is Russell/LeVert/Crabbe/Hollis-Jefferson/Allen

Well again, as I said, he's in the same role he had in Portland. He was getting starter level minutes with the Blazers coming off the bench as a 6th man as well. Thats disappointing for myself who wanted to see him in a new role. Hopefully the Nets transition him into that starting role sooner than later.

KA was really disappointed when Crabbe got injured in training camp, called it a major setback. I would not be surprised if the original plan was for Crabbe to start, or at least to be in competition for a starting position.

I think he still has a shot at starting sometime this year.

[DusterBuster]

He'll get his chance. His injury in the preseason kind of screwed him and it gave Carroll a chance to show that he is a better fit in the starting line up right now next to Hollis-Jefferson because they are both solid defenders. He'll still play the same amount of minutes as he would if he started due to our pace.

The goal is really for the team to transition to their core which is Russell/LeVert/Crabbe/Hollis-Jefferson/Allen

Well again, as I said, he's in the same role he had in Portland. He was getting starter level minutes with the Blazers coming off the bench as a 6th man as well. Thats disappointing for myself who wanted to see him in a new role. Hopefully the Nets transition him into that starting role sooner than later.

KA was really disappointed when Crabbe got injured in training camp, called it a major setback. I would not be surprised if the original plan was for Crabbe to start, or at least to be in competition for a starting position.

I think he still has a shot at starting sometime this year.

Here's hoping so

[DusterBuster]

KA was really disappointed when Crabbe got injured in training camp, called it a major setback. I would not be surprised if the original plan was for Crabbe to start, or at least to be in competition for a starting position.

I think he still has a shot at starting sometime this year.

Here's hoping so

A lot will depend on his defense. We have heard it was pretty good his first two years, is that right?

Ummm, no not really. He was always pretty bad on D. His help defense is solid, but that's about the nicest thing I can say for his d.