Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[DarkXaero]

I was wrong its actually 141 not including harris cap hold

Durant 40.1
Kyrie 33.3
Lavert 16.2
Prince 13.9
Dinwiddie 11.5
Jordan 10.4
Temple 5 (team option)
Allen 3.9
Musa 2
Kurucs 1.8
Pinson 1.7 (team options)
Claxton 1.5

total = 141.3

cap holds

Harris 14.5
chandler 1.7
TLC 1.5

Deron finally off the books!!

Seems like it'll be very difficult to get to that $139 mill number unless we renounce Joe or make some big moves. Closest I can think of is renouncing Chandler, TLC, and not picking up options on Pinson & Temple, which frees up about $10 mill. I guess we could also trade Musa for cap, and then after all that, you have to hope that Joe agrees on a number around $12 mill/yr. Doesn't seem realistic to me.

trading levert for picks, sign joe to a lower salary (11-12 million?) and dumping chandler gets it done. although you could probably get a better player for levert than you could for the MLE so maybe just deal levert for someone who is healthier and fits better and not worry about the MLE?

Right now, it'll be hard to trade Levert for cap. But I'll leave it up to Marks & co. who are experts at this, and have found ways previously to manipulate cap rules. None of us really thought that it was possible to sign Kyrie, KD, and DJ without letting anyone go, but they managed to do it. So I'm hoping they can work out some cap magic again.

[MrDollarBills]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd rd pick for LeVert. Look at his advanced numbers.

Marks made a mistake.

[DarkXaero]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd rd pick for LeVert. Look at his advanced numbers.

Marks made a mistake.

It's insane to me how bad he can look when he's at his worst. And it happens basically every time he gets hurt and comes back. I'm still assuming that he'll bounce back at some point, but man, it's getting really tough to watch him out there.

[ecuhus1981]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd rd pick for LeVert. Look at his advanced numbers.

Marks made a mistake.

Markinson may indeed have mis-managed Caris, both in giving him an extension and in directing or allowing his skill development to trend toward ISO and mid-range instead of the things that would sustain him and us in a 3rd/4th option role.

I still believe that Levert can be a 20/5/5 dude, and believe me, he still has positive value around the league. Not NEARLY what we expected of his value, but it's still positive based on the flashes he's shown. Although we haven't gotten the sample size of data that we'd like due to injury, it is clear to me that CLV cannot mesh with the core of this team. His game languishes the more he has to perform off-ball. If he's this lost sharing with Kyrie & Spencer, what's gonna happen when we add Kevin to the mix? He needs an environment where 2 defenders are already part of the core, and a team that would benefit from his playmaking.

Those opportunities don't grow on trees, but there will be buyers for Caris' services. I suggest we take the opportunity sooner than later. The longer he remains here, the more the bloom comes off the rose from last year's breakout.

[Stone]

I still haven't totally given up all hope with Caris. But his window is closing. I can't believe we are less than a week away from the deadline. If we don't move him, I think we will get a better grasp on his abilities by the end of February. He is going to get plenty of playing time with Kyrie out to back on track and right the ship.

[gigantes]

Please wait til this Summer to start making significant deals, Sean Marks.

I can hardly imagine anything you can really be sure of at this point, but hopefully the 2nd half of the season will answer some of the 1,001 questions this season has unexpectedly posed us.

Incidentally, nice to see Musa doing alright in the G-league. Seems like a quarter of the roster should be down there at this point, working out whatever issues they have.

Also, I think a fair argument can be made (at this point in time), that trying to turn a mediocre team with growth potential in to a contender too quickly was in fact a mistake. That chemistry significantly changed due to moving too many key personnel and a certain slow, steady (egalitarian?) growth got kind of left behind due to the moves that were made.

That said, the cap was slated to get crossed soon enough no matter what happened, and bringing in Kyrie and KD was pretty much a no-brainer bball move. Just saying there's probably an argument that Marks and his staff erred somewhat, and things could have gone in a different, more productive direction than this.

Anyway, here's hoping that particular argument evaporates by the end of the season. Or in future, whatever. (I'll stay patient)

[DarkXaero]

Please wait til this Summer to start making significant deals, Sean Marks.

I can hardly imagine anything you can really be sure of at this point, but hopefully the 2nd half of the season will answer some of the 1,001 questions this season has unexpectedly posed us.

Incidentally, nice to see Musa doing alright in the G-league. Seems like a quarter of the roster should be down there at this point, working out whatever issues they have.

Also, I think a fair argument can be made (at this point in time), that trying to turn a mediocre team with growth potential in to a contender too quickly was in fact a mistake. That chemistry significantly changed due to moving too many key personnel and a certain slow, steady (egalitarian?) growth got kind of left behind due to the moves that were made.

That said, the cap was slated to get crossed soon enough no matter what happened, and bringing in Kyrie and KD was pretty much a no-brainer bball move. Just saying there's probably an argument that Marks and his staff erred somewhat, and things could have gone in a different, more productive direction than this.

Anyway, here's hoping that particular argument evaporates by the end of the season. Or in future, whatever. (I'll stay patient)

Well, according to Woj (and Bobby Marks) tonight:

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So basically, while Prince & Levert can't be traded for now, it seems like we're open to the idea of trading them in summer. And Marks doesn't seem content with the roster as of now, and could make a small move for long-term now

[Paradise]

A small move for long term equals moving Kurucs, Musa or a recent signing.

I can’t see us touching Spencer at this time and it seems like the odd men out here under contract would be Caris, Allen and TP. I also can’t see us touching Allen before testing out lineups with him and KD on the floor.

That leaves us with LeVert, Prince, Musa, Rodi and 5 1sts, 7 2nd founders to dangle in future trades.

[LOUiS-D]

A small move for long term equals moving Kurucs, Musa or a recent signing.

I can’t see us touching Spencer at this time and it seems like the odd men out here under contract would be Caris, Allen and TP. I also can’t see us touching Allen before testing out lineups with him and KD on the floor.

That leaves us with LeVert, Prince, Musa, Rodi and 5 1sts, 7 2nd founders to dangle in future trades.

who are all on rookie scale contracts and at their lowest values. the only moves you can make are to find someone on a rookie deal who's currently not getting utilized and is a better fit for us in a position of need, who's also going to be a work in progress. that or moving them for a future first. otherwise good luck making a deal when you need to lump 4 guys together to make 10M in salary.

[ecuhus1981]

I am glad to hear that our FO is taking a hard look at the fit on this roster.

[Prokorov]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd rd pick for LeVert. Look at his advanced numbers.

Marks made a mistake.

It's insane to me how bad he can look when he's at his worst. And it happens basically every time he gets hurt and comes back. I'm still assuming that he'll bounce back at some point, but man, it's getting really tough to watch him out there.

I think its easier to see it when you take an unbias look at him when he isnt bad.

People really went all-time over the top on levert when he was at his best... because it was really all that great. he was like an 18/4/4 player on mediocure efficiency on a sub .500 team. pre-injury last year everyone called him a star yet we were 6-8 and sub 20 points with average shooting. for a #1 option on a losing team, that screams average.

he was always closer to jordan clarkson and those types than an all-star. he has dropped off from there. its not a large a fall as some thing, because he was never as good as they thought

[Prokorov]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd rd pick for LeVert. Look at his advanced numbers.

Marks made a mistake.

Markinson may indeed have mis-managed Caris, both in giving him an extension and in directing or allowing his skill development to trend toward ISO and mid-range instead of the things that would sustain him and us in a 3rd/4th option role.

I still believe that Levert can be a 20/5/5 dude, and believe me, he still has positive value around the league. Not NEARLY what we expected of his value, but it's still positive based on the flashes he's shown. Although we haven't gotten the sample size of data that we'd like due to injury, it is clear to me that CLV cannot mesh with the core of this team. His game languishes the more he has to perform off-ball. If he's this lost sharing with Kyrie & Spencer, what's gonna happen when we add Kevin to the mix? He needs an environment where 2 defenders are already part of the core, and a team that would benefit from his playmaking.

Those opportunities don't grow on trees, but there will be buyers for Caris' services. I suggest we take the opportunity sooner than later. The longer he remains here, the more the bloom comes off the rose from last year's breakout.

There are like a dozen 20/5/5 guys in the league over the past 10 years. all hall of famrers. i broke this down in the preaseason. he isnt ever going to be a 20/5/5 guy. that is rarified air.

[Prokorov]

I still haven't totally given up all hope with Caris. But his window is closing. I can't believe we are less than a week away from the deadline. If we don't move him, I think we will get a better grasp on his abilities by the end of February. He is going to get plenty of playing time with Kyrie out to back on track and right the ship.

it makes 0 sense to trade levert now, since his extensions hasnt kicked in and we could get little in reutrn. if we are going to trade him as a pure salary dump, better to give him another 40 games to see if he plays better

[MrDollarBills]

Right now, these guys are imo the keepers:

KD/Kyrie duh

DJ

Spencer/Joe/GT

I believe these guys are definitely pieces for a championship roster

Jarrett Allen I think is a solid piece but he's probably our most valuable asset so he should definitely be involved in trade talks.

Claxton is definitely a piece that can be an NBA player so i would keep him if Allen is getting moved.

If I had to choose on who I would rather keep between LeVert and Prince, it's probably Prince because his floor spacing will be key for when we have the whole squad intact.

LeVert imo has played his way off of this roster.

[Prokorov]

Right now, these guys are imo the keepers:

KD/Kyrie duh

DJ

Spencer/Joe/GT

I believe these guys are definitely pieces for a championship roster

Jarrett Allen I think is a solid piece but he's probably our most valuable asset so he should definitely be involved in trade talks.

Claxton is definitely a piece that can be an NBA player so i would keep him if Allen is getting moved.

If I had to choose on who I would rather keep between LeVert and Prince, it's probably Prince because his floor spacing will be key for when we have the whole squad intact.

LeVert imo has played his way off of this roster.

id agree with this.

i think for a pre-deadline trade you are likely looking at either:

A) a big trade involving Allen, Spencer, and picks (you wont see prince or levert, without their extensions we can take big salary back)

B) a smaller deal with Allen, Kurucs, Musa Picks to land a covington level player and maybe a backup pg or C

C) and even smaller deal with kurucs, musa, and or picks to land a lame duck like Markieff Morris

I think A would surprise me unless we overpay for someone like Covington. Otherwise id bank on B or C with someone like:

Marvin Williams
Tyler Johnson
Tony Snell
Langston Galloway
Aaron Baynes
Dario Saric
Markief Morris
Alec Burks
Denzel Valentine
Harry Giles
Mike Muscala
Deandry Bembry

From that list id prefer Bembry or Morris who are both guys who can get stops at multiple positions and not kill you on offense. Marvin williams fits but it would be tough to get the matching sallary back. Baynes i love but it would mean allen would go. not sure i love that given allens age. the other dont really fit or are just other teams versions of what already falls short here

[DarkXaero]

I wonder if Marvin Williams is a buyout candidate this season. There could be some interesting buyout candidates available for us in general.

[vincecarter4pres]

I wouldn't trade a 2nd rd pick for LeVert. Look at his advanced numbers.

Marks made a mistake.

It's insane to me how bad he can look when he's at his worst. And it happens basically every time he gets hurt and comes back. I'm still assuming that he'll bounce back at some point, but man, it's getting really tough to watch him out there.

I think its easier to see it when you take an unbias look at him when he isnt bad.

People really went all-time over the top on levert when he was at his best... because it was really all that great. he was like an 18/4/4 player on mediocure efficiency on a sub .500 team. pre-injury last year everyone called him a star yet we were 6-8 and sub 20 points with average shooting. for a #1 option on a losing team, that screams average.

he was always closer to jordan clarkson and those types than an all-star. he has dropped off from there. its not a large a fall as some thing, because he was never as good as they thought

Personally I don't even disagree with this, in fact I almost entirely agree with it. But I also feel like people are prisoners of the moment on the opposite polar. He's still a young, average-ish NBA player on a contract a bit below that and he has the potential to be a lot better, simply off, if he can get more consistent with age, he becomes an average to above average player/starter/stud 6xth man, instead of a guy with maddening swings and overall a lot more games with inefficiency issues.

The bottom line is, you can find a few GM's who will value him as the latter thinking once their staff gets hold of him he's a 16/5/4 guy on solid efficiency with solid D for years you slot in-between your 2 stars or off the bench you unleash him. So I think this summer, he's still a guy with positive value unless he remains a trainwreck the rest of this year.

[vincecarter4pres]

Right now, these guys are imo the keepers:

KD/Kyrie duh

DJ

Spencer/Joe/GT

I believe these guys are definitely pieces for a championship roster

Jarrett Allen I think is a solid piece but he's probably our most valuable asset so he should definitely be involved in trade talks.

Claxton is definitely a piece that can be an NBA player so i would keep him if Allen is getting moved.

If I had to choose on who I would rather keep between LeVert and Prince, it's probably Prince because his floor spacing will be key for when we have the whole squad intact.

LeVert imo has played his way off of this roster.

id agree with this.

i think for a pre-deadline trade you are likely looking at either:

A) a big trade involving Allen, Spencer, and picks (you wont see prince or levert, without their extensions we can take big salary back)

B) a smaller deal with Allen, Kurucs, Musa Picks to land a covington level player and maybe a backup pg or C

C) and even smaller deal with kurucs, musa, and or picks to land a lame duck like Markieff Morris

I think A would surprise me unless we overpay for someone like Covington. Otherwise id bank on B or C with someone like:

Marvin Williams
Tyler Johnson
Tony Snell
Langston Galloway
Aaron Baynes
Dario Saric
Markief Morris
Alec Burks
Denzel Valentine
Harry Giles
Mike Muscala
Deandry Bembry

From that list id prefer Bembry or Morris who are both guys who can get stops at multiple positions and not kill you on offense. Marvin williams fits but it would be tough to get the matching sallary back. Baynes i love but it would mean allen would go. not sure i love that given allens age. the other dont really fit or are just other teams versions of what already falls short here

I'd be livid if Allen was traded for a so-so player, a Covington or anything like that. You either involve him as the central piece in a blockbuster trade, or you make deals that don't involve him. He's too young, too good, fits too well in the modern NBA and this team, to just throw away on some Billy King $hit for a player like that.

[DarkXaero]

It's insane to me how bad he can look when he's at his worst. And it happens basically every time he gets hurt and comes back. I'm still assuming that he'll bounce back at some point, but man, it's getting really tough to watch him out there.

I think its easier to see it when you take an unbias look at him when he isnt bad.

People really went all-time over the top on levert when he was at his best... because it was really all that great. he was like an 18/4/4 player on mediocure efficiency on a sub .500 team. pre-injury last year everyone called him a star yet we were 6-8 and sub 20 points with average shooting. for a #1 option on a losing team, that screams average.

he was always closer to jordan clarkson and those types than an all-star. he has dropped off from there. its not a large a fall as some thing, because he was never as good as they thought

Personally I don't even disagree with this, in fact I almost entirely agree with it. But I also feel like people are prisoners of the moment on the opposite polar. He's still a young, average-ish NBA player on a contract a bit below that and he has the potential to be a lot better, simply off, if he can get more consistent with age, he becomes an average to above average player/starter/stud 6xth man, instead of a guy with maddening swings and overall a lot more games with inefficiency issues.

The bottom line is, you can find a few GM's who will value him as the latter thinking once their staff gets hold of him he's a 16/5/4 guy on solid efficiency with solid D for years you slot in-between your 2 stars or off the bench you unleash him. So I think this summer, he's still a guy with positive value unless he remains a trainwreck the rest of this year.

I mostly agree with what has been said here as well. My hope was that Levert would develop into an all star caliber guard, maybe someone like (a bigger) Oladipo lite. But he's now a 4th year player who has developed, but still has zero consistency. In this modern era of NBA, I don't think its far fetched to say that Levert could still be a 18/5/5 player, or something like 20/5/5 on average-ish efficiency at his peak. But there are still way too many question marks over him, for the situation that we are going to be in (title contention).

So yeah, like you said, there are still going to be GMs out there (especially on rebuilding teams) who will think that they can develop him into that guy, and they wouldn't be wrong to think that. But for us, I just think that unless he takes major leaps here soon, his time as a Net is running out.

[Paradise]

Nets reportedly turned down Prince/Allen + filler for Capela.

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