PG: We Battled

[Basketball_Jones]

Yeah, I'm sure Livingston got fouled there. I thought it was anyways, but in a game like that with a team that just lost a 26 point lead the refs don't have the balls to call it. Won't happen. The real tragedy was Blatche throwing it into the other side of the court.

[HelloBrooklyn]

PGs I'd take over Deron, in no order:

-Kyle Lowry
-Rajon Rondo
-Kyrie Irving
-John Wall
-Kemba Walker
-Jeff Teague
-Russell Westbrook
-Damian Lillard
-Ty Lawson
-Chris Paul
-Stephen Curry
-Goran Dragic
-Isaiah Thomas
-Tony Parker
-Jeremy Lin
-Mike Conley

Deron is the 17th best PG in the NBA imo.

But what about his +/- on and off court?

[DarkXaero]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

[Paradise]

PGs I'd take over Deron, in no order:

-Kyle Lowry
-Rajon Rondo
-Kyrie Irving
-John Wall
-Kemba Walker
-Jeff Teague
-Russell Westbrook
-Damian Lillard
-Ty Lawson
-Chris Paul
-Stephen Curry
-Goran Dragic
-Isaiah Thomas
-Tony Parker
-Jeremy Lin
-Mike Conley

Deron is the 17th best PG in the NBA imo.

17th is being generous at this point.

-Chris Paul
-Stephen Curry
-Tony Parker
-Kyrie Irving
-Russell Westbrook
-John Wall
-Kemba Walker
-Damien Lillard
-Mike Conley
-Goran Dragic
-Jeff Teague
-Ty Lawson
-Kyle Lowry
-Isaiah Thomas
-Jeremy Lin
-Trey Burke
-Rajon Rondo
-Eric Bledsoe
-Reggie Jackson

He's 20th right now and he could be behind MCW, Olapdio,next year if they continue to develop.

[Palmeirense]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

[DarkXaero]

Yeah, I'm sure Livingston got fouled there. I thought it was anyways, but in a game like that with a team that just lost a 26 point lead the refs don't have the balls to call it. Won't happen. The real tragedy was Blatche throwing it into the other side of the court.

Well, that's a fair answer. I think it's one of those late game calls which could have been called if it favored the home team.

But yes, the real tragedy is Blatche. There was more than enough time, Deron was wide open with no one around him, and Blatche was being closed out by a 6 ft guy in Lowry...

[Palmeirense]

PGs I'd take over Deron, in no order:

-Kyle Lowry
-Rajon Rondo
-Kyrie Irving
-John Wall
-Kemba Walker
-Jeff Teague
-Russell Westbrook
-Damian Lillard
-Ty Lawson
-Chris Paul
-Stephen Curry
-Goran Dragic
-Isaiah Thomas
-Tony Parker
-Jeremy Lin
-Mike Conley

Deron is the 17th best PG in the NBA imo.

17th is being generous at this point.

-Chris Paul
-Stephen Curry
-Tony Parker
-Kyrie Irving
-Russell Westbrook
-John Wall
-Kemba Walker
-Damien Lillard
-Mike Conley
-Goran Dragic
-Jeff Teague
-Ty Lawson
-Kyle Lowry
-Isaiah Thomas
-Jeremy Lin
-Trey Burke
-Rajon Rondo
-Eric Bledsoe
-Reggie Jackson

Kemba Walker.

I would easily take Michael Carter-Willians over him as well on sheer potential alone.

[DarkXaero]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

And you don't think I've expressed my disappointment with this team or its star? No ****, I know that we put ourselves in that hole. Because for all of Lowry's flopping, he still made genuine big time plays and embarrassed our "star PG".

But that doesn't change what we cannot control. The fact is that Lowry flopped throughout this game (and the entire series). And it absolutely does make a difference when the game is decided by two points. What you're telling me is to not complain about an opposition player flopping his way to a win? Do you realize how it would have been if the situations were reversed? If Lowry was a Net instead, how much of an outrage Raps fans would express over his flopping?

Just because we **** sucked tonight doesn't make Lowry's flopping alright. It's a disgrace to this playoffs series, this league, and this sport. And the sad part is that no one really acknowledges Lowry as one of the NBA's worst offenders in flopping.

[LOUiS-D]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

That's not a complaint about the calls.. that's a complaint about the very character of the man

[Palmeirense]

Oh, i would take Ricky Rubio over him as well, broken shot and all.

[Palmeirense]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

And you don't think I've expressed my disappointment with this team or its star? No ****, I know that we put ourselves in that hole. Because for all of Lowry's flopping, he still made genuine big time plays and embarrassed our "star PG".

But that doesn't change what we cannot control. The fact is that Lowry flopped throughout this game (and the entire series). And it absolutely does make a difference when the game is decided by two points. What you're telling me is to not complain about an opposition player flopping his way to a win? Do you realize how it would have been if the situations were reversed? If Lowry was a Net instead, how much of an outrage Raps fans would express over his flopping?

Just because we **** sucked tonight doesn't make Lowry's flopping alright. It's a disgrace to this playoffs series, this league, and this sport. And the sad part is that no one really acknowledges Lowry as one of the NBA's worst offenders in flopping.

I understand what you're saying, but it is what it is, the league is simply too complacent about it, 5k fines won't do ****. When they start suspending guys for flopping that's when it will actually stop.

[DarkXaero]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

That's not a complaint about the calls.. that's a complaint about the very character of the man

Flopping is about conning the referee. Making them think that you got fouled. I don't blame the refs that much here, because Lowry sells the **** out of any contact he gets (or creates himself). The refs could be more aware, but because Lowry is barely acknowledged as a flopper league-wide, refs continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

So complaining about flopping isn't as much about the refs, as it is about the player.

[Palmeirense]

Raps don't win this game if it wasn't for Lowry's flopping. He put on a flopping master class display tonight.

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

That's not a complaint about the calls.. that's a complaint about the very character of the man

He's just working the system, i would hardly call this on a man's character to be honest, embellishment has been a part of this league even in the 80's, have you seen the bad boys 30 for 30?

[LOUiS-D]

Come on guys, stop complaining about calls, we lost because we put ourselves in a 26 point hole.

That's not a complaint about the calls.. that's a complaint about the very character of the man

He's just working the system, i would hardly call this on a man's character to be honest, embellishment has been a part of this league even in the 80's, have you seen the bad boys 30 for 30?

Yeah it was great. I get it, he's suckering players in and getting them punished for making mild mistakes. It takes extra discipline to play him. That mirza foul in the backcourt really pissed me off though for the inequality of it. Lowry plays smothering defense to the point where he got his lip busted up by Livingston he was leaning on him that hard. Mirza bodies up and nearly forces an 8 second violation so Lowry stumbles and gets free throws.

[LOUiS-D]

probably not the best example I used there because Lowry did actually get whistled with a foul there. How about this... I don't like him

[Cold Logic]

Didn't realize it in live action because the whole damn sequence was so hectic, but Livingston clearly got fouled on the rebound:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhG8E1GpN0[/youtube]

Potential game deciding call there, would have been two free throws to tie. So much for NBA/refs wanting us to win.

Nah, there's no way that is a foul. Derozan was running straight forward and livingston was behind him. It was a play on situation where both players were going for the ball and both collided in a loose ball situation.

[DarkXaero]

Didn't realize it in live action because the whole damn sequence was so hectic, but Livingston clearly got fouled on the rebound:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhG8E1GpN0[/youtube]

Potential game deciding call there, would have been two free throws to tie. So much for NBA/refs wanting us to win.

Nah, there's no way that is a foul. Derozan was running straight forward and livingston was behind him. It was a play on situation where both players were going for the ball and both collided in a loose ball situation.

Watch the replay at 0:46. Livingston gets to the ball first with BOTH hands, and then DeRozan collides into him mid air, causing him to go off balance and crash to the floor.

It all happens very fast, and I guess, it is a bang bang play, but it's still a foul in hindsight.

[Cold Logic]

Didn't realize it in live action because the whole damn sequence was so hectic, but Livingston clearly got fouled on the rebound:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhG8E1GpN0[/youtube]

Potential game deciding call there, would have been two free throws to tie. So much for NBA/refs wanting us to win.

Nah, there's no way that is a foul. Derozan was running straight forward and livingston was behind him. It was a play on situation where both players were going for the ball and both collided in a loose ball situation.

Watch the replay at 0:46. Livingston gets to the ball first with BOTH hands, and then DeRozan runs into him, causing him to go off balance and crash to the floor.

If you pause at 48 seconds they both are jumping for the ball, and DD is jumping straight up. How can DD foul someone he can't see whos behind him, when he jumps straight up.

[DarkXaero]

If you pause at 48 seconds they both are jumping for the ball, and DD is jumping straight up. How can DD foul someone he can't see whos behind him, when he jumps straight up.

I didn't say that they both didn't jump for the ball. They both tried to get the rebound but Livingston got there first and is the only one out of the two to get both his hands on the ball. The point is that DeRozan colliding into him prevents Livingston from securing the rebound himself, and land cleanly. DeRozan gets to the ball late and doesn't make any contact with the ball.

Like I said in the other post, it all happened very fast so it's easy to miss (especially since the ball was able to get to Blatche), but it's still technically a loose ball foul.

[Cold Logic]

If you pause at 48 seconds they both are jumping for the ball, and DD is jumping straight up. How can DD foul someone he can't see whos behind him, when he jumps straight up.

I didn't say that they both didn't jump for the ball. They both tried to get the rebound but Livingston got there first and is the only one out of the two to get both his hands on the ball. The point is that DeRozan colliding into him prevents Livingston from securing the rebound himself, and land cleanly. DeRozan gets to the ball late and doesn't make any contact with the ball.

Like I said in the other post, it all happened very fast so it's easy to miss (especially since the ball was able to get to Blatche), but it's still technically a loose ball foul.

I can't even tell after watching the replay 4x if he got both hands on it or not, definitely a play on in my opinion. Especially since livingston was coming from behind. Could have even been an over the back call going the other way.