Lopez for Reggie Jackson falls apart; Nets acquire Thad Young for KG (UPDATE: Page 58)

[Zachbretton]

I just don't see why we can re-engage the OKC talks, I still think they're interested. They need a kick to get into the playoffs as the suns are staying put at the moment.

I like the OKC deal a whole lot better than Denver, plus we could maybe do the flip for Thad, or flip Lamb for Lance. Either way I think we need to actively re-engage in trade talks (maybe not with Denver, I honestly thinking the Hickson/McGee is awful value, but that's because i hate McGee).

Also Blatche is out of the playoffs, so I hope billy considers him again, its a Lance situation... if he's really that bad off the court, well we don't have much chemistry to mess up at this point... but we do have a huge need at PF that he can fill.

[lkitt0804]

A starting 5 of Jack, Lance, Joe, KG, Plumlee would be really ugly. There isn't enough spacing in that group. I think Jack and Lance combine to shoot less than like 20% from 3 this season.

If the goal is to make the playoffs this season we need to find a shooting guard that can help space the floor because teams are daring us to shoot it from the outside with our current line up.


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What spacing does bogdanovic provide that lance wouldnt?

spacing isnt a problem, in fact we have pretty great spacing. the problem is no one can get in the paint, score in the full court, or hit an open shot. lance helps 2 of the 3.

That's my point. We can't get into the paint because the defense is sagging off guys because they can't hit an open shot. Lance can't hit an open 3 and I'm not sure if he can get into the paint if it's packed because nobody can hit an outside shot. He brings energy sure but he needs to play alongside Deron or another shooter besides Joe.

If we get Lance, he and Deron compliment each other a lot better than him and Jack.


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[Prokorov]

Lance had 4pts 13asts 5rbs and 2 stls only 3 TO. This is why I want Lance not for scoring but for everything else.

Kevin Martin is back playing for Minny and Rubio is coming back. I wouldnt mind Martin as our shooter and he can create off the dribble.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jvlnsee" target="_blank

3 team deal.

BKN sends out Lopez and Karasev gets Thad Young/Kevin MArtin/Reggie Jackson

OKC sends out REggie Jackson and Jeremy LAmb get Lopez and KArasev

Minny sends out Thad Young and Kevin Martin get expiring in Perkins and Young sg in LAmb

Bkn:

Jackson/Dwill
Kevin Martin/Bojan
Lance/Henderson
Thad/Kg
Plumlee/Jordan

This is completely possible.

there is simply no chance okc gives up jakcson for lopez

[Prokorov]

Lance had 4pts 13asts 5rbs and 2 stls only 3 TO. This is why I want Lance not for scoring but for everything else.

Kevin Martin is back playing for Minny and Rubio is coming back. I wouldnt mind Martin as our shooter and he can create off the dribble.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jvlnsee" target="_blank" target="_blank

3 team deal.

BKN sends out Lopez and Karasev gets Thad Young/Kevin MArtin/Reggie Jackson

OKC sends out REggie Jackson and Jeremy LAmb get Lopez and KArasev

Minny sends out Thad Young and Kevin Martin get expiring in Perkins and Young sg in LAmb

Bkn:

Jackson/Dwill
Kevin Martin/Bojan
Lance/Henderson
Thad/Kg
Plumlee/Jordan

This is completely possible.

Except that this team needs scoring. Lance would be just as bad... he isn't what we need. I would probably take a flyer on him at this point, but not because I think he'd improve the team.

...and why do you have Reggie Jackson starting over Deron in your scenario?

because jackson is a better player

[Prokorov]

14/6/2 on 50% shooting in a reduced role isn't poor. He just isn't a freachise leader. Aside from that he is still clearly a talented center and would easily be their second option behind Lawson.

I hate that you leave out advanced stats for him, when you always include them otherwise, because you are indeed a smart fan. raw FG% is so secondary to advanced shooting numbers, and you know this.

Lopez numbers are down everywhere, most of it career lows or since his rookie season. he is taking BY FAR the most amount of jumpshots he has ever taken(volume and % wise) and getting to the FT less then ever (volume or % wise). he has a reduced role because he hasnt played well enough to start over plumlee. he is every bit the bench player hickson and mcgee are. those guys are also good player who arent justifiable as starters over the guys currentlky starting

Meanwhile, McGee looks like a shell of himself and has developed stress fractures in his legs already. So, if Lopez goes on to have a productive season and McGee can't stay on the court or regain his athleticism. We lose our best trade asset for nothing and look like complete fools.

the trade is more for hickson at PF... mcgee is more contract wise. and mcgee just got back on the floor, of course he doesnt look great. and if lopez gets injured we look great moving him before he did. he is more injury prone then mcgeee

Like I said, it's a terrible offer and we've already received much better offers from OKC and Charlotte. Nothing about this deal as reported would be justifiable.

and like everyone has said, we should have taken those deals as those teams paniced and were going to overpay. this is a great offer for us and we should 100% take it before brook gets hurt

[Prokorov]

Billy blew it by not pulling the trigger on the OKC deal. He's only going to get crummy offers now and he's going to take a crap package at the last minute because he thinks he has some sort of leverage.

exactly this. OK was willing to overpay for him. now we are left with market value for lopez which is basically other teams version of lopez... overpaid players with maybe some injury questions who dont fit their current teams. i.e. javale mcgee

I disagree. If the OKC package is the best you're going to get then I would rather keep Lopez and increase his trade value by playing him. You have a better chance at making the playoffs with your current roster anyway. If it means you can't trade him until next season, so be it. He's a 7 footer with skills. Someone will make an offer that's worth your while.

no, we dont have a chance to make the playoffs with this roster. i think that is pretty clear being 3-14 this year. Lopez doesnt fit the coach or the roster.

his value has more to do with his contract and injury history then his play. and he is becoming more of a jumpshooter then interior scorer which doesnt help

[Prokorov]

That's my point. We can't get into the paint because the defense is sagging off guys because they can't hit an open shot. Lance can't hit an open 3 and I'm not sure if he can get into the paint if it's packed because nobody can hit an outside shot. He brings energy sure but he needs to play alongside Deron or another shooter besides Joe


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No.... we cant get into the paint because we dont have any wings capable of getting in there. jack has no problem getting in the lane when williams couldnt. bogs and karasev simply arent good enough.

we have really good spacing. spacing has not been an issue this year at all.

[Prokorov]

Except that this team needs scoring. Lance would be just as bad... he isn't what we need. I would probably take a flyer on him at this point, but not because I think he'd improve the team.

...and why do you have Reggie Jackson starting over Deron in your scenario?

If Deron couldn't take his starting job back from Jack, he'd probably get outplayed by Jackson too

Deron was much better for the second unit so Hollins played him there. He was still closing out games. It wasn't a benching.


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it was a benching.... and dwill was playing next to jack to close out games, not in his place.

[Prokorov]

I just don't see why we can re-engage the OKC talks, I still think they're interested. They need a kick to get into the playoffs as the suns are staying put at the moment.

I like the OKC deal a whole lot better than Denver, plus we could maybe do the flip for Thad, or flip Lamb for Lance. Either way I think we need to actively re-engage in trade talks (maybe not with Denver, I honestly thinking the Hickson/McGee is awful value, but that's because i hate McGee).

Also Blatche is out of the playoffs, so I hope billy considers him again, its a Lance situation... if he's really that bad off the court, well we don't have much chemistry to mess up at this point... but we do have a huge need at PF that he can fill.

blatche isnt coming.... and his negatives arent chemistry, its with the law

[Shook Jones]

Martin is an upgrade over all our sg right now. I inquire about him.

Also one thing I noticed about Jack is he is tough. This dude played all but 50secs last game in an OT. Not once did he look to the bench, grab his, wrist, ankle or act like he got shot when he was fouled. Dwill just doesnt have the testicular makeup for leadership. Every single game he plays he grabs something or acts like he was shot. He is allergic to driving the lane and thats what this team needs from its pg spot. He is more talented than Jack but doesnt have 1/2 of Jacks heart.

Joe's legs are gone and his contract gets worse as he gets older. They need to move this dude asap. I cant imagine what he is going to look like at the end of the season.

[Shook Jones]

Lance had 4pts 13asts 5rbs and 2 stls only 3 TO. This is why I want Lance not for scoring but for everything else.

Kevin Martin is back playing for Minny and Rubio is coming back. I wouldnt mind Martin as our shooter and he can create off the dribble.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jvlnsee" target="_blank" target="_blank

3 team deal.

BKN sends out Lopez and Karasev gets Thad Young/Kevin MArtin/Reggie Jackson

OKC sends out REggie Jackson and Jeremy LAmb get Lopez and KArasev

Minny sends out Thad Young and Kevin Martin get expiring in Perkins and Young sg in LAmb

Bkn:

Jackson/Dwill
Kevin Martin/Bojan
Lance/Henderson
Thad/Kg
Plumanlee/Jordan

This is completely possible.

Except that this team needs scoring. Lance would be just as bad... he isn't what we need. I would probably take a flyer on him at this point, but not because I think he'd improve the team.

...and why do you have Reggie Jackson starting over Deron in your scenario?

An acquisition of MArtin and Young take care of the scoring. Martin is a better scorer and shooter than ALL of our guards.

Thad is a better scorer than people credit him for also. Much better player than any of our current forwards. He has a good midrange game that will mesh well with Plumlee being in the paint

Lance would be there to help rebound drive and dish, finish in the paint and defend thats it. Hollins should be able to drive that home, that he is not here to be a scorer but an ast man and defender agitator. He would be the energizer.

I have Jackson over Dwill cause I truly believe Dwill is finished as a starter in the league, opposing guards are going to cook that dude now that the word is out that he is mentally soft. He started out strong but has regressed to normal.

This move frees up cap and improves team. gives you future pieces to build around. Add 1 or 2 mid level FA and you can get back in the hunt in the east rather quickly.

[Prokorov]

Martin is an upgrade over all our sg right now. I inquire about him.

Also one thing I noticed about Jack is he is tough. This dude played all but 50secs last game in an OT. Not once did he look to the bench, grab his, wrist, ankle or act like he got shot when he was fouled. Dwill just doesnt have the testicular makeup for leadership. Every single game he plays he grabs something or acts like he was shot. He is allergic to driving the lane and thats what this team needs from its pg spot. He is more talented than Jack but doesnt have 1/2 of Jacks heart.

Joe's legs are gone and his contract gets worse as he gets older. They need to move this dude asap. I cant imagine what he is going to look like at the end of the season.

it makes more sense to trade johnson next year, as an expiring teams are more willing to take him on.

unless the charlotte offer happens, makes little sense to trade joe now since it wont change our cap situation or make us better

[JeromeAirJordan]

I don't know how I feel about Lance... Good player on paper but he's the kind of guy who's always going to wear out his welcome.

[MGrand15]

Let me remind you guys - of Deron's top 10 5-man-lineups, SEVEN of them are positive. The 3 that aren't? Include Jack.

I'm going to kindly say that is NOT the case for tough, paint-driving, injury-free, superstar Jarrett Jack.

Please stop spreading the LIE that Deron "lost" his job to Jack. He got injured. Started coming off the bench while he worked his way back from injury. We played well with him coming off the bench - so Hollins stuck with it. He was about to take the starting spot back but he got injured again. Same exact thing happened last year when the same people were pleading for Deron to stay on the bench.

[jeff1624]

Let me remind you guys - of Deron's top 10 5-man-lineups, SEVEN of them are positive. The 3 that aren't? Include Jack.

I'm going to kindly say that is NOT the case for tough, paint-driving, injury-free, superstar Jarrett Jack.

Please stop spreading the LIE that Deron "lost" his job to Jack. He got injured. Started coming off the bench while he worked his way back from injury. We played well with him coming off the bench - so Hollins stuck with it. He was about to take the starting spot back but he got injured again. Same exact thing happened last year when the same people were pleading for Deron to stay on the bench.

It's like the Jack > Deron crowd are watching different games than the rest of us. There's is absolutely no evidence that points to jack being better than Deron for the team. In fact, there's plenty of evidence pointing against it. As starters they're both averaging essentially the same numbers, except Deron turns the ball over less, gets to the line more and averages more points per shot. Which is funny because the same people that hate on Deron are the same that get wowed by Jack yet Deron has better stats. Also, Joe, KG and Mirza all played better next to Deron and the offense as a whole was a LOT better. Like you said MGrand, Deron kept coming off the bench because he immediately solved our issues with the second quarter which came at the expense of the great first quarters that we used to have.

I mean, people are actually saying that Reggie Jackson is better. I get that people hate Deron for not delivering for Brooklyn... but people talk about him as if he were one of the worst players in the league and it boggles my mind, it's like some people are watching basketball for the first time in their lives.

[MrDollarBills]

Reggie Jackson -is- better than Deron, and also, you sit here and tout Deron's numbers as if they are something to be proud of, especially when this guy is tanking a high % of the Nets cap.


Despite the fact that we are better with him than without, it still doesn't change the fact that the guy is a flat out dog and a part of the reason as to why this franchise has underachieved while paying the league's highest payroll.

[Born_Ready]

36 pages into the thread and we still have nothing. Deadline is approaching rapidly.. We need something, anything at this point to shake up the roster.

[jeff1624]

Reggie Jackson -is- better than Deron, and also, you sit here and tout Deron's numbers as if they are something to be proud of, especially when this guy is tanking a high % of the Nets cap.


Despite the fact that we are better with him than without, it still doesn't change the fact that the guy is a flat out dog and a part of the reason as to why this franchise has underachieved while paying the league's highest payroll.

In what way is Reggie Jackson better than Deron? He's a chucker that isn't even all that good at scoring, when you have members of your own team criticize your selfishness and are unwilling to pass you the ball then you're a problem. There's a reason OKC fans are more than willing to trade him. His basic numbers aren't better than Deron's nor are his advanced numbers.

And I'm not touting his numbers. He isn't a star and his salary is a disaster. But he's not marquis teague either. I have no other choice but to defend him nowadays because you and many others want to push the narrative that he's a bad player because he hasn't lived up to the hype. I mean, there's absolutely no evidence that guys Jackson and Jack are better but your hate for Deron clouds your argument and it's kind of ridiculous.

[Prokorov]

Reggie Jackson -is- better than Deron, and also, you sit here and tout Deron's numbers as if they are something to be proud of, especially when this guy is tanking a high % of the Nets cap.


Despite the fact that we are better with him than without, it still doesn't change the fact that the guy is a flat out dog and a part of the reason as to why this franchise has underachieved while paying the league's highest payroll.

Yeah i really dont see any argument for deron being better then Jackson.

better then jack? sure. but not like leaps and bounds better. and as a starter williams has been well below avg on an NBA scale.

Also, its all moot since he cant get on the floor anyhow

[Prokorov]

In what way is Reggie Jackson better than Deron? He's a chucker that isn't even all that good at scoring, when you have members of your own team criticize your selfishness and are unwilling to pass you the ball then you're a problem. There's a reason OKC fans are more than willing to trade him. His basic numbers aren't better than Deron's nor are his advanced numbers.

Jackson - 14/4/4 15.9 PER 52 TS in 29 minutes
Williams - 14/6/3 16.9 PER 52 TS in 31 minutes

Offensively deron is slightly better. defensively, in the open court jackson is clearly better. im not sure where the beef is going with jackson over williams, especially since jackson has also been able to stay healthy and on the floor.

And I'm not touting his numbers. He isn't a star and his salary is a disaster. But he's not marquis teague either. I have no other choice but to defend him nowadays because you and many others want to push the narrative that he's a bad player because he hasn't lived up to the hype. I mean, there's absolutely no evidence that guys Jackson and Jack are better but your hate for Deron clouds your argument and it's kind of ridiculous.

bad player? no, but he is now a below average PG. there is no way he is in the top 15 or that you coudlnt easily argue 15-20 guys over him.