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PAY THE MAN, DAMN IT

gigantes wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:So.... howzabout ol' Joe Harris? Y'know, tryna get this thread back on course...

He hasn't been shooting well from 3pt land recently, but I agree with MattyB's take:

Since losing Irving, the Nets have shot a combined 30.6% from three as a team – a number that would be dead-last in the league during this time span if it weren’t for those godforsaken Golden State Warriors and their historical awfulness, and, surprisingly, the Boston Celtics. Playing next to this many non-shooters has only accentuated Harris’ recent downswing. Opposing ball clubs have gleefully glued two —even three— defenders to Joe’s hip to thoroughly erase his impact as long-range threat.

Joe Harris is Brooklyn’s 28-year-old elder statesman on a roster still filled to the brim with starry-eyed prospects and NBA hopefuls. Even amidst his shooting slump, Harris has looked the part of that much-needed stabilizing veteran presence, especially in big moments.

So I guess we're seeing Harris under a similar kind of pressure and scrutiny that he faced against the Sixers in April. Well, maybe not quite as intense pressure as that, but more consistently against so many different teams.

If he was hitting at his usual rate at this point, he'd be in Steph Curry's realm. That might be asking a bit much for the moment, but hopefully he'll get more and more used to seeing smaller cracks of daylight.

Anyway, I do love all the ways he's diversified his game across the past couple years, such as ball-handling, passing, driving, and finishing in the trees. Also, he's so great at making quick decisions without waffling with the ball.

But who knows? Maybe it would be good for him to study Harden and work on holding the ball more, and shooting more side-steppers and step-backs. I like how Prince did that so well a couple times, recently (i.e. side-steppers, where he fakes, dribbles, then gathers back to the line and hits the three).

I think there's a factor that might be easy to look past because of his replacements, and that's the departure of D'Angelo Russell. Since Minnesota traded for Russell, I wanted to look at Russell and how he's been able to elevate his teammates. In the case of Harris, I think the stats merit discussion and that's why I'm bringing them over here. Harris's 3-point shooting climbed from 39% to 45% in the two seasons Russell played in Brooklyn. Even moreso, breaking down the 30+ games Russell missed in 2017-18, Harris shot 39% from 3-point range without Russell that season compared to 44% with him.

Klomp wrote:

gigantes wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:So.... howzabout ol' Joe Harris? Y'know, tryna get this thread back on course...

He hasn't been shooting well from 3pt land recently, but I agree with MattyB's take:

Since losing Irving, the Nets have shot a combined 30.6% from three as a team – a number that would be dead-last in the league during this time span if it weren’t for those godforsaken Golden State Warriors and their historical awfulness, and, surprisingly, the Boston Celtics. Playing next to this many non-shooters has only accentuated Harris’ recent downswing. Opposing ball clubs have gleefully glued two —even three— defenders to Joe’s hip to thoroughly erase his impact as long-range threat.

Joe Harris is Brooklyn’s 28-year-old elder statesman on a roster still filled to the brim with starry-eyed prospects and NBA hopefuls. Even amidst his shooting slump, Harris has looked the part of that much-needed stabilizing veteran presence, especially in big moments.

So I guess we're seeing Harris under a similar kind of pressure and scrutiny that he faced against the Sixers in April. Well, maybe not quite as intense pressure as that, but more consistently against so many different teams.

If he was hitting at his usual rate at this point, he'd be in Steph Curry's realm. That might be asking a bit much for the moment, but hopefully he'll get more and more used to seeing smaller cracks of daylight.

Anyway, I do love all the ways he's diversified his game across the past couple years, such as ball-handling, passing, driving, and finishing in the trees. Also, he's so great at making quick decisions without waffling with the ball.

But who knows? Maybe it would be good for him to study Harden and work on holding the ball more, and shooting more side-steppers and step-backs. I like how Prince did that so well a couple times, recently (i.e. side-steppers, where he fakes, dribbles, then gathers back to the line and hits the three).

I think there's a factor that might be easy to look past because of his replacements, and that's the departure of D'Angelo Russell. Since Minnesota traded for Russell, I wanted to look at Russell and how he's been able to elevate his teammates. In the case of Harris, I think the stats merit discussion and that's why I'm bringing them over here. Harris's 3-point shooting climbed from 39% to 45% in the two seasons Russell played in Brooklyn. Even moreso, breaking down the 30+ games Russell missed in 2017-18, Harris shot 39% from 3-point range without Russell that season compared to 44% with him.

its not russell. its the fact that without kyrie/russell/competant lead dog there is just too much attention on Harris. You cant expect a gunner like dinwidde to really be able to facilitate and keep attention off those guys. and the league just wont respect Caris until he can prove he can put the ball in the hoop. not to mention huge minutes from pinson/musa when both kyrie and levert were out

If teams put their best wing defender on Harris, and dont have to worry about a guy like Kyrie or Russell or someone who can kill you offensively. Harris wont fare as well

When KD joins the team next season, it should really open things up for Joe. A year from now Joe may be the second most valuable player on the Nets.

Klomp wrote:

gigantes wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:So.... howzabout ol' Joe Harris? Y'know, tryna get this thread back on course...

,snip>.

I think there's a factor that might be easy to look past because of his replacements, and that's the departure of D'Angelo Russell. Since Minnesota traded for Russell, I wanted to look at Russell and how he's been able to elevate his teammates. In the case of Harris, I think the stats merit discussion and that's why I'm bringing them over here. Harris's 3-point shooting climbed from 39% to 45% in the two seasons Russell played in Brooklyn. Even moreso, breaking down the 30+ games Russell missed in 2017-18, Harris shot 39% from 3-point range without Russell that season compared to 44% with him.

It's not 100% Russell but it definitely is a factor. DLo is a fantastic passer. He was the best passer on the Nets last year and is a huge part of his game(that's kind of underrated). He sees the floor well and is able to find passing lanes most players don't see. He's also really good at making on time and target passes where all the shooter needs to do is rise up. He had turnover issues in the pass, partly because his vision was almost "too good" and he'd make risky/difficult passes that weren't necessary.

If you watch Joe closely, there are numerous times where passes are slightly off and he has to either dribble or delay/rush his shot. Some of it is added attention he is seeing(KI/KD missing and team respecting his shooting ability) but it's also "bad" passing.

Dinwiddie in particular is a culprit of making the right past but it's slightly off target which forces the player to adjust his shot/break his rhythm. LeVert pounds the air out of the ball far too much but he does tend to though good pocket passes. Kyrie was good at replicating what Dlo did but he hasn't played enough, sadly.

Anyway, I don't think you are off base at all and I'm sure the more you watch DLo the more you realize how gifted his passing is and he should only get better with age/experience/chemistry.

3pt_chucker wrote:It's not 100% Russell but it definitely is a factor. DLo is a fantastic passer. He was the best passer on the Nets last year and is a huge part of his game(that's kind of underrated). He sees the floor well and is able to find passing lanes most players don't see. He's also really good at making on time and target passes where all the shooter needs to do is rise up. He had turnover issues in the pass, partly because his vision was almost "too good" and he'd make risky/difficult passes that weren't necessary.

If you watch Joe closely, there are numerous times where passes are slightly off and he has to either dribble or delay/rush his shot. Some of it is added attention he is seeing(KI/KD missing and team respecting his shooting ability) but it's also "bad" passing.

Dinwiddie in particular is a culprit of making the right past but it's slightly off target which forces the player to adjust his shot/break his rhythm. LeVert pounds the air out of the ball far too much but he does tend to though good pocket passes. Kyrie was good at replicating what Dlo did but he hasn't played enough, sadly.

Anyway, I don't think you are off base at all and I'm sure the more you watch DLo the more you realize how gifted his passing is and he should only get better with age/experience/chemistry.

Thank you, this is what I was trying toget from my post. Not that he was the sole reason, but that it was a factor. Leave it to a 3-point chucker to understand the importance of passes being on time and on target.

Please don’t leave...pretty please.

Kenny obviously played a huge role in helping Joe become the player he is now.

Sadly, I can’t help but think that firing Kenny can’t be a positive for keeping Joe. You can tell he didn’t know anything or expected it.

I’m not saying that we won’t or can’t re-sign him, but I really hope the Nets know what they’re doing now that they’ve fired a coach who has developed several of our guys into good players other teams covet.

NyCeEvO wrote:Please don’t leave...pretty please.

Kenny obviously played a huge role in helping Joe become the player he is now.

Sadly, I can’t help but think that firing Kenny can’t be a positive for keeping Joe. You can tell he didn’t know anything or expected it.

I’m not saying that we won’t or can’t re-sign him, but I really hope the Nets know what they’re doing now that they’ve fired a coach who has developed several of our guys into good players other teams covet.

Joe (and Caris LeVert) were clearly blind sided by this. I definitely think this will come into play this summer if a team offers him more.

What you worry about now is there being animosity developing between guys that loved Kenny and the ones that didn't. If what is being said about DeAndre is true you could see this team's chemistry or lack thereof fall into the toilet.

I don't have a good feeling about the direction that we are headed in.

MrDollarBills wrote:

NyCeEvO wrote:Please don’t leave...pretty please.

Kenny obviously played a huge role in helping Joe become the player he is now.

Sadly, I can’t help but think that firing Kenny can’t be a positive for keeping Joe. You can tell he didn’t know anything or expected it.

I’m not saying that we won’t or can’t re-sign him, but I really hope the Nets know what they’re doing now that they’ve fired a coach who has developed several of our guys into good players other teams covet.

Joe (and Caris LeVert) were clearly blind sided by this. I definitely think this will come into play this summer if a team offers him more.

What you worry about now is there being animosity developing between guys that loved Kenny and the ones that didn't. If what is being said about DeAndre is true you could see this team's chemistry or lack thereof fall into the toilet.

I don't have a good feeling about the direction that we are headed in.

chemistry not a concern. dinwiddie, levert, harris, allenw ill all be traded in my opinion

Really doubt Joe stays. He's an unrestricted FA. This year hasn't been enjoyable. His long time coach got fired. He's not taking a discount like he did last time. Joe should chase the money. He'll be great wherever he goes.

The DNA of this team has changed overnight so It would not be shocking of Joe decided to take his talents elsewhere. Sad.

We'll see. He'll still have a big role and a good chance at a chip here and will likely be offered a nice contract.

How much will he value all those things in comparison to having to work everyday with a group of dudes with questionable morals and ethics?