The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

[Ror1997]

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Same amount of Mins as a starter though. Our starters would be lucky to hit 32 mpg. He'll also get a bigger role in the offense in those mins.

He got the same amount of starter minutes in Portland too. He was getting that same 30ish min per. So yeah, same role as he had in Portland.

A role is not defined by the amount of minutes you play. If your idea of an offensive role is as simple as "starter/6th man" then yeah you would be right. In reality, it'll be a different role since he'll be prioritized in the offense.

[DusterBuster]

Same amount of Mins as a starter though. Our starters would be lucky to hit 32 mpg. He'll also get a bigger role in the offense in those mins.

He got the same amount of starter minutes in Portland too. He was getting that same 30ish min per. So yeah, same role as he had in Portland.

A role is not defined by the amount of minutes you play. If your idea of an offensive role is as simple as "starter/6th man" then yeah you would be right. In reality, it'll be a different role since he'll be prioritized in the offense.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

[ChokeFasncists]

You never know, he could become Kyle Korver meets Wes Mathews.

Nice one. It could very well be. He does have a lot of potential. Or maybe a Klay-lite?

From those few minutes, he surely looks like he'll be better than JHar, quicker, longer, more athletic, more flexible, better shooter, better passer, better defender.

he isnt a better passer and not close to a better defender then harris. im not sure he is quicker either and while its outdated based on their combine he isnt much more athletic

Well, that was how it looked in that game, jury's still out whether it is true, we shall see. At least the potential is there

[ChokeFasncists]

Taking on Allen Crabbe's deal is a calculated risk by the FO. I honestly think they figure they can transform him into a more complete Otto Porter Jr type player AND even if they fail to develop more than he already is (12-13 pt per game elite sniper and not much else), they figure an expiring Crabbe is worth something especially if they attach a sweetener. Whether its part of a package for a star or for a position of future need on a "bad" contract with more years left, especially if the FO doesnt feel like they can get a good FA to sign. Worse comes to worse, one can stretch Crabbe for a 3.8 mil a year cap hit, or trade him to some team with excess cap and desperate for a shooter + pick ala DMC trade.

I dont view it as calculated risk. I think marks thinks he has allstar potential. You dont pay someone that kind of money based on nothing (when marks offered him that deal he put up joe harris numbers) or a risk. I dont know how much value crabbe has considering outside of us teams wanted at least 1 first to take him on (people on this board wanted TWO firsts to take him on - check the trade thread)

I'm not going to comment on the otto porter thing other then to say he was better in every facet of the game, younger, higher draft stock and not an awful defender. i was like 90-100% against otto porter, but he is significantly better then crabbe and younger

These are reasonable gambles and if Crabbe does develop more fully it makes Levert into an expendable player who can be considered a NICE sweetener in event a disgruntled star wants out and thinks the Nets are a fine franchise to join and boost to glory. Something like DMC (or Mozgov if its a big) + Levert + pick for Disgruntled Star. Allen if he develops quickly can also be in the same boat, as promising youngsters on rookie deals are valued immensely. Crabbe, Moz, and DMC can all be used salary cap filler for future deals, or kept (Crabbe, Moz) if they do their jobs well.

Levert is probably already better then crabbe on both ends of the floor and younger. I dont see how crabbe makes him expendable. probably the other way around. typically you keep the younger/better/cheaper player. I dont see anything to suggest crabbe can be an allstar.

I dont really want to make this a bitchfest about crabbe because i have no issue with him. he isnt some dog or bad guy off the floor and his skills fit what we do on offense and he deserves a chane to show he can be better then a liability on defense.

my issue has never been with crabbe here, its with marks. if we had crabbe for MLE type money this is a non issue. I mean forget the harris comparisons is he really worth 3 times jaymichael green?

Green got screwed by RFA. Crab is virtually untradeable, whereas LVJ has high trade value now.

[ChokeFasncists]

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Too bad he was injured, it definitely looked like he was gonna be starting until that happened. Competition is fierce in our wing rotation.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

He gets total green light, especially with the second unit, Kenny asks him to let it fly. I suppose he'd be gunning, we can just hope the shots would fall.

[DusterBuster]

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Too bad he was injured, it definitely looked like he was gonna be starting until that happened. Competition is fierce in our wing rotation.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

He gets total green light, especially with the second unit, Kenny asks him to let it fly. I suppose he'd be gunning, we can just hope the shots would fall.

Yeah, but Stotts also gave him the green light to shoot too. I'm just curious to see if his aggressiveness changes at all.

[playteamball]

Crabbe reminds me right now of Dell Curry, certainly no slouch but never an all-star nor a good defensive player:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryde01.html

Curry could be a consistent contributor on a playoff team (as he was for most of his career), but he was rarely a starter and not considered a foundational piece for the team.

Both were kind of lackadaisical on the court but outstanding shooters. Dell had a quicker release but Crabbe more elevation on his shot.

I do hope I'm wrong and Crabbe develops into more, but I just don't see the physical upside.

[Aussienet3]

A quick look at our future Cap holdings show that Caris,RHJ, Allen and D'lo will still be on their rookie scale contracts. Carroll will be gone, Lin will be gone (if not re-signed) when Crabbe and Mozgov become expiring contracts. We will have Raptors first round pick on a rookie scale and our pick back. With salary cap also set to still be rising all be it not as massively as first thought. And quality free agents hardly banging down our door to sign with us. I still fail to see how Crabbe's contract will hinder our cap space going forward. It may hinder Harris getting a decent contract but that's not the debate here. I will agree that it's not the best contract going around but it certainly ain't the worst. I give Marks full credit for putting his balls on the line and having a second crack at crabbe.

russell wont be on his rookie deal. he is due a huge extension this offseason. same with RHJ. unless you want them both playing on the qualifying offer so they become UFA whose rights we dont control. the next season Caris is eligible for a big extension. We arent in cap hell but paying bench guys 19 million isnt a great look when you have 3 young guys due big money and need to make a decision on Lin as well

We just excercised our option for D'lo, RHJ and Cariss. Which means this coming off season they are due for their extensions (your right about that also i'm not including Cariss for an extension) But my point still remains. Once they have signed their extensions we will only have 1 year left of Crabbe and Moz on the books. Again with the increase of the salary cap, the possibilty of a trade deadline deal or (hope not) an injury that causes a buy out or stretch of contract. I still don't see how this effects our salary cap space going forward!
You can argue all day that Crabbe is not worth the contract. You can argue all day that Harris and Crabbe are the same player's. And yes Harris' contract is miles better than Crabbe's. But again I back Mark's in everyday of the week. So far he hasn't done anything wrong by us. I would do the deal again as we got a far better player in Crabbe than what we gave Portland.

[Prokorov]

He got the same amount of starter minutes in Portland too. He was getting that same 30ish min per. So yeah, same role as he had in Portland.

A role is not defined by the amount of minutes you play. If your idea of an offensive role is as simple as "starter/6th man" then yeah you would be right. In reality, it'll be a different role since he'll be prioritized in the offense.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

I've been saying this all summer. Many here feel like he will be taking 15 shot a game and he was just frozen out of the offense. Alot of people who didnt watch him play much just assume it was all because of lillard and CJ but the reality is outside of catch and shoot jumpers and transition spot ups he doesnt have much of an offensive game.

I also mentioned how he doesnt create as much space as you would expect from a 45% three point shooter since he was so easily run off the line last year. when you run at him and go by he doesnt have much of a dribble in/reset/jumper game and isnt a thread to do much with the ball in his hind inside the three point line.

alot of people refuse to believe his game isnt much expanded on what joe harris brings

[Prokorov]

A quick look at our future Cap holdings show that Caris,RHJ, Allen and D'lo will still be on their rookie scale contracts. Carroll will be gone, Lin will be gone (if not re-signed) when Crabbe and Mozgov become expiring contracts. We will have Raptors first round pick on a rookie scale and our pick back. With salary cap also set to still be rising all be it not as massively as first thought. And quality free agents hardly banging down our door to sign with us. I still fail to see how Crabbe's contract will hinder our cap space going forward. It may hinder Harris getting a decent contract but that's not the debate here. I will agree that it's not the best contract going around but it certainly ain't the worst. I give Marks full credit for putting his balls on the line and having a second crack at crabbe.

russell wont be on his rookie deal. he is due a huge extension this offseason. same with RHJ. unless you want them both playing on the qualifying offer so they become UFA whose rights we dont control. the next season Caris is eligible for a big extension. We arent in cap hell but paying bench guys 19 million isnt a great look when you have 3 young guys due big money and need to make a decision on Lin as well

We just excercised our option for D'lo, RHJ and Cariss. Which means this coming off season they are due for their extensions (your right about that also i'm not including Cariss for an extension) But my point still remains. Once they have signed their extensions we will only have 1 year left of Crabbe and Moz on the books. Again with the increase of the salary cap, the possibilty of a trade deadline deal or (hope not) an injury that causes a buy out or stretch of contract. I still don't see how this effects our salary cap space going forward!
You can argue all day that Crabbe is not worth the contract. You can argue all day that Harris and Crabbe are the same player's. And yes Harris' contract is miles better than Crabbe's. But again I back Mark's in everyday of the week. So far he hasn't done anything wrong by us. I would do the deal again as we got a far better player in Crabbe than what we gave Portland.

if your response is just blind love for marks cause he "hasn messed up yet" then there really isnt a discussion to be had. is crabbe better the nicholson? yes. but he is also a much much worse contract.

also, you are missing the point salary wise. we need to capatilize on the cap space BEFORE the extensions. once we sign the extensions that space doesnt matter much since we'd be over the cap anyhow.

[Paradise]

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Too bad he was injured, it definitely looked like he was gonna be starting until that happened. Competition is fierce in our wing rotation.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

He gets total green light, especially with the second unit, Kenny asks him to let it fly. I suppose he'd be gunning, we can just hope the shots would fall.

Yeah, but Stotts also gave him the green light to shoot too. I'm just curious to see if his aggressiveness changes at all.

I dunno but he’s been praising the offensive system with the intent to be ATL’s Kyle Korver. I’m not sure how that comparison shakes out with his past seasons in POR.

Biggest takeaway from last night: He needs a top quality guard to get him open looks. He wasn’t getting the same type of looks when Lin and D’angelo sat on the bench which isn’t too different to Lillard/CJ but he’s still an upgrade for regardless so I’m not sure what to make of him right now as an expanded scorer.

[Prokorov]

Too bad he was injured, it definitely looked like he was gonna be starting until that happened. Competition is fierce in our wing rotation.


He gets total green light, especially with the second unit, Kenny asks him to let it fly. I suppose he'd be gunning, we can just hope the shots would fall.

Yeah, but Stotts also gave him the green light to shoot too. I'm just curious to see if his aggressiveness changes at all.

I dunno but he’s been praising the offensive system with the intent to be ATL’s Kyle Korver. I’m not sure how that comparison shakes out with his past seasons in POR.

Biggest takeaway from last night: He needs a top quality guard to get him open looks. He wasn’t getting the same type of looks when Lin and D’angelo sat on the bench which isn’t too different to Lillard/CJ but he’s still an upgrade for regardless so I’m not sure what to make of him right now as an expanded scorer.

Korver has consistently been over 40% from three... and typically mid to high 40's and even into the 50's a couple times. (48.5% last year). And he has done it on twice the volume of allen crabbe and with teams knowing they cant give him an inch of space.

I dont think you can "become" a kyle korver. i think he is like a unicorn. you are either that good or your not.

I think crabbe can be our Novak. which isnt a bad thing.

[Aussienet3]

russell wont be on his rookie deal. he is due a huge extension this offseason. same with RHJ. unless you want them both playing on the qualifying offer so they become UFA whose rights we dont control. the next season Caris is eligible for a big extension. We arent in cap hell but paying bench guys 19 million isnt a great look when you have 3 young guys due big money and need to make a decision on Lin as well

We just excercised our option for D'lo, RHJ and Cariss. Which means this coming off season they are due for their extensions (your right about that also i'm not including Cariss for an extension) But my point still remains. Once they have signed their extensions we will only have 1 year left of Crabbe and Moz on the books. Again with the increase of the salary cap, the possibilty of a trade deadline deal or (hope not) an injury that causes a buy out or stretch of contract. I still don't see how this effects our salary cap space going forward!
You can argue all day that Crabbe is not worth the contract. You can argue all day that Harris and Crabbe are the same player's. And yes Harris' contract is miles better than Crabbe's. But again I back Mark's in everyday of the week. So far he hasn't done anything wrong by us. I would do the deal again as we got a far better player in Crabbe than what we gave Portland.

if your response is just blind love for marks cause he "hasn messed up yet" then there really isnt a discussion to be had. is crabbe better the nicholson? yes. but he is also a much much worse contract.

also, you are missing the point salary wise. we need to capatilize on the cap space BEFORE the extensions. once we sign the extensions that space doesnt matter much since we'd be over the cap anyhow.

But yet your blind love for Harris is acceptable "because he hasn't messed up yet"

Are you not allowed to go over the cap to sign your own players anymore?

[steady]

Seriously can we just support the guy now that he is a Net?

Harris is to Crabbe what Dinwiddie is to Lin,

[ChokeFasncists]

Bummer. That's basically the same role he had in Portland. I was really hoping to see him get a starting job and see if he can have a breakout year.

Too bad he was injured, it definitely looked like he was gonna be starting until that happened. Competition is fierce in our wing rotation.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

He gets total green light, especially with the second unit, Kenny asks him to let it fly. I suppose he'd be gunning, we can just hope the shots would fall.

Yeah, but Stotts also gave him the green light to shoot too. I'm just curious to see if his aggressiveness changes at all.

I was thinking, perhaps he was unhappy you guys matched the offer sheet, so he wasn't very enthusiastic last year whereas this year he's gonna be much more motivated?

[ChokeFasncists]

Crabbe reminds me right now of Dell Curry, certainly no slouch but never an all-star nor a good defensive player:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryde01.html

Curry could be a consistent contributor on a playoff team (as he was for most of his career), but he was rarely a starter and not considered a foundational piece for the team.

Both were kind of lackadaisical on the court but outstanding shooters. Dell had a quicker release but Crabbe more elevation on his shot.

I do hope I'm wrong and Crabbe develops into more, but I just don't see the physical upside.

Different era. Most shooters back then were there to wait for the bigs to pass out of the double teams, nowadays, they're the mainstay in the motion offense.

Dell averaged 16 points or close to it for multiple years, that's not bad.

Lets see if Crabbe's son's gonna become an all time great

[Ror1997]

A role is not defined by the amount of minutes you play. If your idea of an offensive role is as simple as "starter/6th man" then yeah you would be right. In reality, it'll be a different role since he'll be prioritized in the offense.

We'll see how "prioritized" he really will be. Even if he is prioritized, how aggressive will he be in taking shots? This was always a problem for him in Portland, even with plenty of opportunity, his aggressiveness for taking shots was a rollercoaster, sometimes taking 14 shots, then taking 4 shots the next.

I've been saying this all summer. Many here feel like he will be taking 15 shot a game and he was just frozen out of the offense.

I wouldnt say that. I would say some people here don't have some werid personal grudge against Crabbe that's caused them to attack him for 2 months before he even played a game in a Net uniform.

But do you.

[Paradise]

Yeah, but Stotts also gave him the green light to shoot too. I'm just curious to see if his aggressiveness changes at all.

I dunno but he’s been praising the offensive system with the intent to be ATL’s Kyle Korver. I’m not sure how that comparison shakes out with his past seasons in POR.

Biggest takeaway from last night: He needs a top quality guard to get him open looks. He wasn’t getting the same type of looks when Lin and D’angelo sat on the bench which isn’t too different to Lillard/CJ but he’s still an upgrade for regardless so I’m not sure what to make of him right now as an expanded scorer.

Korver has consistently been over 40% from three... and typically mid to high 40's and even into the 50's a couple times. (48.5% last year). And he has done it on twice the volume of allen crabbe and with teams knowing they cant give him an inch of space.

I dont think you can "become" a kyle korver. i think he is like a unicorn. you are either that good or your not.

I think crabbe can be our Novak. which isnt a bad thing.

Twice the volume? Korver In ‘07 & ‘08 still attempted the same amount of threes Crabbe attempted last season and converted a better percentage of his threes then Korver.

[hood30]

If RHJ not healthy enough to start by opening night, should Crabbe start and move Carroll up at PF?

[MrDollarBills]

There's been no indication that RHJ is injured.

and honestly all of this stuff about Crabbe is off the rails. Can we let the guy play 10-15 games in this offense with these players before we rush to judgement? The team got dragged the other night, of course he wasn't going to look good. Barely anyone did outside of Russell