2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[Preludepunk27]

^^^ I have been saying this for the past 2 months now. A trade involving the addition of salary is something I'm sure we'd entertain in August or September, but at this point, we're not gonna do that until management does not believe we'll nab 2 decent free agents.

If management believes we can nad 2 decent free agents why is there no talk of any trade activity freeing up more cap then? Are we talking Lee/Gay 2 decent free agents here? This management has its head up its ass.

Sometimes you make good comments, but other times I wonder if you're actually a Nets fan. I see you on Netsdaily too so I guess you have to actually be a Nets fan. If you are, then you'd know Rod Thorn NEVER shows his hand. 95% of his moves seem to come out of nowhere. The RJ deal and the Vince deal basically popped up in the media and with completed basically within 24 hours of the initial rumor. Even the Kidd deal was like that. Everyone knew Kidd wanted out, but Thorn downplayed it. Also, that would have been done and processed almost as quick as our other move if Jerry Stackhouse didn't open his mouth prolonging the situation for a few more days. Our management isn't on a power trip where they feel there is a need to try to steal the back page of the daily news. If that is what you want, there is a team across the river you may want to follow instead. Our management has had some bumps, but overall, they have been pretty good. Patience is a virtue that a lot of fans lack (see: demens) during rebuilding. It is extremely difficult to constantly rebuild on the fly. Our roster ran its course and now we are setting ourselves up, trying to clear the room for 2 big free agents. Is it a long shot? As of today yes, but we're trying. Plus, if we actually did clear the room (which I continue to believe will happen the day before, day of, or day after the draft then it's a WHOLE new ballgame. But you don't put the gun back in the holster until you emptied all the bullets. While some of these deals are enticing, most of these hypothetical ones, like getting Prince, can be dealt with in August or September which I keep on stressing. Everyone just gets trade happy around the draft and it causes people to kind of thing narrowmindedly. We just have to be patient and stay the course. Our management is doing an above average job in my opinion. We don't make rash decisions and we don't talk to the media for the sake of talking to the media.

Bottom line: Right now, we only talk about trades that will clear the cap space for 2 max contracts. If that fails, we move to plan B. The players we can get at plan B will likely still be there when we start calling about them so why the hell jump the gun until we're 100% sure plan A won't work. Patience kids. Patience.

[deviljets7]

We still have room for a Max guy this year, and he expires next year so whats the harm...that 2nd max,

Yes, that is exactly the harm.
Whether the chance is extremely small or not, that chance at a second max player greatly outweighs any benefits that Tayshaun Prince will bring for one season.

Exactly.

Even if clearing room for that 2nd max doesn't become possible, you currently have enough cap room to offer a 2nd free agent an offer well above the MLE and something in the range of the Ben Gordon contract ($58 million for 5) in addition to that max free agent.

While it may not be quite enough to lure say David Lee, why forfeit that chance at a Lee, Luis Scola, Ray Allen (on a shorter deal) or signing multiple FAs (pick 2 guys at MLE sized contracts) for a one-year stop gap?

[vincecarter4pres]

http://www.nba.com/nets/news/Workout_Ju ... Recap.html

Mikhail Torrance is a guy I would be thrilled to take with our 31st pick.

[enetric]

My way...we have better options. Why cant we move out one or both of those guys and get to 13 mil on top of the max contract offer and go after a Lee if a Bosh wont take a max offer? As in..he wont do it if its not S&T? Your way is to ensure we cant get to a cap level that gets anywhere close to this caliber of player. And are you talking about Kirilenko? A guy I used to love before he got to the horrid part of his contract and forgot how to play basketball? Is that the Ak you want????
And there are ALWAYS other guys available if you are willing to give up cap space, or cap friendly contracts. EVERY SINGLE season lopsided trades are made for that exact reason. Every year without fail.

My way is to laugh off the idea of 2 max. But since you're talking hypothetical trades here then why is my idea ensuring that it'll be impossible? Currently, its impossible, if we added Beasley it still impossible. If we are moving Yi or Humphries then i don't see how we wouldn't be capable of moving Beasley or Love who are miles and miles more valuable then the other 2.

You're saying that guys will be available if we're willing to give up cap friendly deals...ehh, I'm talking about acquiring guy with cap friendly deals, not trading them away.

You are talking about giving away the cap space we can use to sign vastly better talent because you are afraid of what we wont get. When reality is, we have enough chips to sign, or trade for better. And if you look harder at in season and off season moves of the last 6-8 years you would know that. Its knowing your NBA history better.

I have your downside NAILED to a tee. You are deliberately building a mediocre team with no shot at high draft picks, no cap space to sign big time players, no flexibility to do anything but wait for reality to set in that we built a team poorly.

OMG, How, how can you possibly come to that conclusions, I'm not even gonna bother replying in how many ways that just WRONG, WRONG and WRONG until you can explain how in the world you can think that.

Again it comes down to your NBA history. You are so fixated on we wont be able to sign two max guys that you aren't even considering that we have enough cap room to sign a second guy better than the mediocrity you are so desperate to trade for. Your lack of patience to spend on anything better is your undoing. It shows to anyone who gets the cap and NBA history of where teams went wrong, that you are looking to make the exact same mistake. You are unwilling to see it through another month for fear of god for bid we didn't get a mediocre player like Beasley or a decent payer like Love because uh oh we will be a losing team? Minny had Love. Miami had Beasley. Did you feel they were stud pieces to the deep playoff runs their teams made this year? How about Detroit with Gordon and Villa? You are so unwilling to be patient and go through the losing that you aren't understanding how this sports cap structure works. How salary matching impacts the game. How much more of a stars run league this sport is than any other.

As for landing Wall...how do you know its Favors who wont turn out to be the top guy?

I hope he does. But you'd rather we ending up top 3 until we strike gold. I say once is enough and we already used up our once, so we both better hope he does.

No I would rather we spend our cash on worthy players than overpay for the fear that we will be lousy and back in the lottery again. Because here is the thing. If we had a Villa or a Gordon or Love or Beasley added we still stink. You seem to think there is a medal to having varying degrees of how bad we should be. Wow! 25 wins...we sucked LESS! Thank god we wasted cap space and moved down in the draft the next couple of years...this is so much better than 12 wins!!!

Who would you rather be right now? Detroit who spent their cap space on those two last year with a lower pick a a few extra wins or us? But if we cant get the top guys...you would prefer to be them than be US again in a year? It is impatience.

Why don't you just admit that you haver no interest in building a contender.

Why because i don't want to go after Lebron or Melo. Ohh wait, yeah i do. I don't want to live and die by the delusion of getting 2 max free agents this year or face being the worst team in the league again, you did say top 3 picks right.

So you think giving away a good chunk of cap room for a mediocre player help us land Lebron more than if we hold the cap room for a better second star? maybe we cant get a second max guy. But can we get a 12-13 mil guy who is worth it? I mean...hey. Go turn Devin into Marc Gasol or Love and fill a need plus add cap space I am with you. But the idea of finding anyone out there, spending cap room to fill a position with mediocrity, that have the space to fill with better talent cap wise, or possibly draft on our own? Cant possibly see that. And neither can you at this point. More than enough points have been spelled out for you here. More than enough NBA history has been laid out. I know the drill. You don't want to concede your stance even though it is clear how off the mark you are.

Winning 25-30 games or so wont be that much more gratifying than the 12 we had this year if you had to give up your cap space and better draft position to get those extra 13 wins. We are trying to map out the best possible plan to get to 50+ and a deep playoff run for years to come. In a superstar's league with a cap and salary matching you get the elite players when they are still elite by either drafting them or signing them. Any plan that deliberately says...lets concede both options is clearly not a well informed NBA plan for building a championship team. Its a blue print for mediocrity. Don't want to concede that with all the fact you have laid out...no problem. But, you will end up learning it the hard way like so many others.

[enetric]

Yes, we have the cap space for one max...and by taking on Love or Beasley, that won't tap into it. What it does do, however, is give the Nets a better chance to sign and trade for the other max player. I think we all have to do the math on this.

We have the contracts to trade for the second max guy if that is the situatuation.

BTW...can we please seperate the trade ideas here. One was a rumor (Beasley) that is at least plausible yet still being denied since it came out...and the other (Love) was part of a totally far fetched trade that had us robbing Minny in the process.

One was about giving away cap flexibility and the other was about fan lust that more than likely would never happen...so why are we acting like these are the same thing? Design a plausible trade idea for comparision so we can debate it realistically is my point.

[enetric]

And again, if we're not getting Lebron, I am more than content in sitting back, letting Devin, Twill, Brook, and whoever we draft at #3 develop this season and repeat the process again next season.

Wow.

Wow?????

This needs to be in caps.

THIS ISNT MLB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU AREN'T GOING TO JUST SPEND ON SOME GUYS AND FILL POSITIONS, AND HEY...IF IT DOEST WORK OUT, AH SHUCKS...WE CAN GO GET MORE GUYS THE SAME WAY!!!!

The guys, you give contracts to will not be movable just by their talent levels. One round of the playoffs where you most likely will lose under your plan...is NOT better for the long term of your franchise in this sport than the opportunity at a higher draft pick.

Why is this so hard for you to get? Beasley adds 30 wins and a playoff run in your mind? Are you nuts?

Paying your dues, patience and actually getting how each move has a consequence in this league is the only way you will ever understand how to build a championship team. We have no superstar on this team. We have potential all stars, but no superstar. Stars attract other stars. Stars attract the better role players when all you have is your MLE VS. everyone else's'.

GET THE STAR! This year, next year, the year after that. But give away your option to sign him, or draft him...which is EXACTLY what your plan is designed to do...and you will be the Knicks of the last decade before Walsh came in to try and strip it all down. It doesn't work.

So yeah...a phrase I coined on this board almost a decade ago arguing with 100's just like you, that is now repeated everywhere...

"The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle".
-Enetric

[enetric]

We make Love/Beasley deal and it is officially DEAD...because Love and Beasley's contract can't be traded again until sometime in December if we make a deal now.

Untrue.

Edit: Just so we're clear, I'm not advocating making a stupid trade and throwing out the cap space. I'm just saying there are ways to get better, without relying on free agency and without sticking the team into mediocrity hell.

Yes, no one is denying that we can get better. We are saying that there is timing to these things. And timning wise...Demens wanting Thron's head for not making that trade if the rumor was true...we find rediculous. The cap space timing wise end of season but prior to July 1st of 2010 the biggest free agent crop ever, outweighs adding a dissapointing player like Beasley!

There are times in your building process to take those chances...and times you dont. We have a rare opportunity here that has to be measured carefully. You dont just make any trade that improves talent for the hell of it. You value it againt the point you are in in your rebuilding process, and what you are giving up. In this case...it would not be the talent we trade away, but the cap space we give away. This isnt a good enough player to do that with for a team moving into the largest sports market in the world, that has major buzz, the cap room, and plenty of young prospects already in tow.

Sitting still can cost you wins short term, but making the wrong move can cost you much BIGGER wins in the long term. In other words...I would argue that the difference between a 45 win team and 55 win team is much more important than a 10 win team and a 35 win team.

Fear of being the 10 win team is the only motivating factor I can see here for jumping the gun at this stage of our rebuilding.

[enetric]

So the Piston board seems to be OK with the general idea. Here is the last deal we agreed on.

#3/Humph/CDR for #7/Jerebko/Prince/Future #1 (2011 top 5 prot, or 2012 unprotected)

At #7 we'd have our choice of:
Wing: Wes/Aminu/George/Henry
Big: Monroe/Udoh/Davis/Patterson.

A temp starter in Prince for a year. Enough cap for a MAX this year OR Next year. More then capable, super cheap replacement for Humph. And a likely top 10 pick either next year or 2012.

2 max cats, i already know how you fell, go Knicks

Rather have the better pick and the cap space than Prince and about 10 more wins next season. I believe we can do better with our cap space even if we dont add a second max guy.

In addition...while you wont say that you are not trying to move to medicrity..,and you are willing to keep max cap space for ONE guy? Who is it exactly that you have in mind as that you just took on a big contract for a small forward with no perimiter game in the summer of Lebron James?

That was my polite feedback. My Entric like feedback that I have been really refraining from giving you round after round of you simply not wanting to understand anything being said to you...is....

This trade blows. Tay Prince at this stage of his career and contract size is about as middle of the road crap ass ignorant, no understanding of the NBA cap structure you can possibly make. Beyond baffled at how anyone can be so content to deliberately build a mountain of crap.

[enetric]

Ford says Pistons want a big man and want to trade up. Would the Nets be interested? Its still possible for Wes/Aminu to be there at #7. Do the Pistons have enough talent they can trade to move up?

Well, Maybe the 3rd for the 7th and Austin Daye, possibly a lotto protected first as well.

Just say no to Aminu though, that dude is overrated as hell. I think he'll be a decent pro, but he's a tweener and he lacks a lot of actual basketball skills and he has a very questionable personality that has me convinced he's a high bust candidate.

I think the 3 pick is vastly more valuable in this draft than the 7. I dont think its close.

One second we have guys here draiming of Minny giving us Rubio, Love and their higher pick and the next we are taking about Daye or Prince, the #7...and a protected middle of the pack pick for a future season?

We are all over the map now with "do something" fever.

[demens]

We are all over the map now with "do something" fever.

No lets wait for Phil Jackson, Lebron and Bosh instead.

[enetric]

Ohh Favors is a borderline idiot who has a hard time speaking in sentences and he is "laid back". But Aminu who is actually laid back has a questionable personality.

I also dont think he is a tweener at all. He has excellent SF size and is 100% convinced that is his position. He is working very hard on his handle and shooting to prove it.

We can pick Paul George if you want. But this 6'9 dude is convinced he is a SG. I want a SF.

I would not want Austin Daye, talk about tweener/bust. Maybe i would take Maxiell and a 1 year rental of Prince if they take back Yi. Leaves us max money for next year, but not much incentive to swap picks really. How about Maxiell/Prince/#7/future #1 for #3/Yi/CDR.

We want a small forward too. His name is Lebron James. But you arent interested in seeing if that is even possible. You are hell bent on adding anyone who can fill the position, consequences be damned for this summer, the next, and beyond.

[enetric]

I'd be okay with that. Jerebko is good, he'd be great to have next to Brook. How much is Prince making? 11 million, I think. I'm pretty sure we would have enough room for one max, which would then allow us to sign and trade for another, using Prince if we had a chance at another max.

Edit: Actually, this would have to be after the draft, so why don't you just drop Prince all together, since he throws the monkey wrench into it.

We would NOT have enough left for a max contract offer with this trade taking on Prince.

[enetric]

I like Prince in here because he is still a solid starter in the NBA. My preferred choice at #7 would be a SF, most likely Aminu. I would rather not put pressure on him to start off the bet, and give him time to learn. And Price is not a bad example for Aminu to learn from. We still have room for a Max guy this year, and he expires next year so whats the harm...that 2nd max? Plus i think Prince is similar to Lee, he can spread the floor although he doesn't take a lot of 3s he shoots a high %, he doesn't need plays ran for him and he defends.

Devin/Twitt/T.White(#27)
Lee/Twitt
Prince/Aminu(#7)
Amare/Jerebko
Brook/Yi

And we get an addition top 10 pick for next season. Come on guys, you really think we will do any better then this this summer????

I think we have a chance to do better than that. But I think you just built a 25-40 win team getting tossed in round one If they make the playoffs....and then get crap draft picks the next could of seasons.

So...I would prefer to go after Lebron, and if we fail to get him...get a high pick next year and keep draft building. Long term, we get a guy rather than the short term weak ass team you just built.

[enetric]

We still have room for a Max guy this year, and he expires next year so whats the harm...that 2nd max,

Yes, that is exactly the harm.
Whether the chance is extremely small or not, that chance at a second max player greatly outweighs any benefits that Tayshaun Prince will bring for one season.

And having the chance at the second max guy also increases the chance of actually GETTING the first max guy. II mean unless you are thinking wow...Lebron cant WAIT to play with Tay Prince!!!!

The last thing I would do is make a trade for a middle of the road swingman on a big contract in June!!!! I mean that right there is the absolute most ignorant part of this whole thing. Fear of not getting something great so lets absolutely ENSURE it as an impossibility even though what we got instead cant contend in this league? 3 weeks before everything we have been building for the last 3 years is about to be possible? Yeah!!! Wow. Sheer freakin genius.

[enetric]

^^^ I have been saying this for the past 2 months now. A trade involving the addition of salary is something I'm sure we'd entertain in August or September, but at this point, we're not gonna do that until management does not believe we'll nab 2 decent free agents.

If management believes we can nad 2 decent free agents why is there no talk of any trade activity freeing up more cap then? Are we talking Lee/Gay 2 decent free agents here? This management has its head up its ass.

Yet oddly, Thorn is one of the most respected execs in the game. Maybe you should rethink your false sense of confidence.

I believe right now, we are in a solid position. We have flexibility. I think, plan A...had we landed Wall, we would have either looked to trade Devin for cap space, or we would have looking to use him as part of an S&T for that second max guy you are certain cannot be had.

Now that we didnt land him, I think we are going to look to see who we have a shot at landing free agent wise...unless of course there is a trade that is a no brainer. Like...call and see if you can get Paul now or another star. (Not that I put much into a Sam Smith article...just saying as what calls you make).

If the move isnt there, can we sign and trade with Devin still? Or can we use Yi/Humphries/CDR/#27 as part of an S&T to get there? Is Lee in there somehow? TWill, or the #3? Thee are still options, and that means flexibility. Taking on someone we cannot re trade until December? Giving away cap space in June 2010? Only makes sense to you and your master plan for building your 40 win at the upside wonder bunch.

[demens]

I'd be okay with that. Jerebko is good, he'd be great to have next to Brook. How much is Prince making? 11 million, I think. I'm pretty sure we would have enough room for one max, which would then allow us to sign and trade for another, using Prince if we had a chance at another max.

Edit: Actually, this would have to be after the draft, so why don't you just drop Prince all together, since he throws the monkey wrench into it.

We would NOT have enough left for a max contract offer with this trade taking on Prince.

Yes we would. If you had paid attention you'd see the Pistons are taking back Humphries and CDR in that deal which does leave us room.

You keep repeating this nonsense about how any trade i proposed will damn us for the summer, next year and so on. This leads me to believe that you really have no clue of what you're talking about. There was not 1 deal, not single one that left us less then $17mil under this summer and in even better position next summer.

Considering we are roughly 27-28 mil over, taking on 11 mil from Prince and swapping 3 and 7 would be pretty damn close. I bet you you just pulled that statement out of your ass about Prince costing us Lebron and didn't actually do any math didn't you?

Well, delusion 1 got destroyed today with the news about Avery, enjoy the last days of 2 max dreams.

[demens]

Devin/Twitt/T.White(#27)
Lee/Twitt
Prince/Aminu(#7)
Amare/Jerebko
Brook/Yi

Is a 25-40 win team.

And that confirms it, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[enetric]

We should really get some kind of bet going because i literally feel like i had visions that nothing remotely close to that will happen. I feel so sure about it, its like i saw the future.

See that isnt really the problem. Its that we disagree with you as to what plan B should be. You think its OMG...we have to do something...anything...no matter what and drive us to the middle for the next 5 years.

Most of us believe from watching how it works in this league...even if Plan A fails...doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing.

No one knows what will happen....except of course you and your dreams. But nothing...absolutely nothing you have said convinces me we should be making bad moves for fear of plan A not coming through.


I have been rooting for this team for a long time. I would gladly take 5 years like this past season if I knew it could get me three years like we had at the beginning of the Kidd/NJ era rather than trying our hardest under your plan to have 5 years like we had during the Cassell/Jayson Williams/KVH era....or the DC/Anderson era....since that is about the upside of your plan.

And the thing is...if we do it right...the upside of what I am talking about could be a decade like we had when Kidd got here. Losing more to get there? Totally worth it. Your Jim Morrison like vision...does not persuade me even slightly.

....ride the snake demens...ride the snake.

[enetric]

We are all over the map now with "do something" fever.

No lets wait for Phil Jackson, Lebron and Bosh instead.

Now you are getting it! One set contends, the other is de-mens-iocre.

You have convinced me. Thank GOD we got Tay Prince!!!! I feel like the Knicks felt the days they got Zach Randolph....excpet you know...with a lesser player and more at stake.

[demens]

OMG...we have to do something...anything...no matter what and drive us to the middle for the next 5 years.

It it a rest already. OMG thats not what i think at all. I dont know why you have such trouble understanding what think and assume this stupid stuff.