Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[ecuhus1981]

The thing is, plus-defenders ALWAYS show up on deep stats. As I mentioned, it doesn't matter the quality of your teammates, the size of your offensive role or how successful the team is. Good defenders don't turn into atrocious defenders, Beal has no excuse.

Also, Holiday is a very good off-ball shooter, and his defense has not dipped. I feel like you have an opinion of him that's not rooted in fact or statistics. I'm no Stan for Jrue, he's just the far better and more realistic target for our needs.

[DarkXaero]

More importantly, other teams can offer more. Golden State can give them a top 5 pick. Miami can offer a gold mine of young assets. Why take our offer when the best guy we can give them is 26? Beal is only a year older as Lowe pointed out on his pod.

A top 5 pick in this year's weak draft + Wolves 2021 top 3 protected 1st + Wiggins' horrible contract to make salaries match isn't really a better offer. Miami's "gold mine of young assets" is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, and Kendrick Nunn. Those are some good players but none of them are all star talent imo. Duncan Robinson is 26 years old and in line to get overpaid as he becomes a RFA next year. Nunn is 25 years old and also becomes a RFA next year.

I think yall need to stop underrating our assets, and its especially ironic considering how high some of you are on Levert. If he's a star, then how is an offer starting with him + other good assets isn't enough?

Golden State's offer is far better than ours. Getting two potential top 5 picks is a pretty strong return for a Superstar. Even if they have to eat Wiggins contract.

The Miami offer I was thinking of would include Bam. Who is obviously better than LeVert and much younger.

I could see other teams getting in the mix too. Philly with Simmons. Maybe even Denver.

What exactly are our assets?

LeVert is too old for a rebuild. Dinwiddie is even older and about to enter FA. Allen is a nice player, but no star. And they already have Bryant at that position. Our picks will all likely be late First Rounders. So will Philly's.

This is not going to pry away Beal fro DC who just resigned, has shown no indication he wants to leave and has incentive to play through the season with Wall.

Seems like a pipe dream.

There's no guarantee that Wolves pick will be top 5. In fact, Warriors would be very lucky if it was. Wolves now have D Lo and KAT, and they're looking to compete, so with the new GM (who is making good moves), they'll put a supporting cast around them this offseason.

There's no way in hell Miami are including Bam for Beal. It would be stupid to do so because Bam has become one of the very best bigs in the league, and he's steadily improving each year. They're not going to do that, nor should they.

[DarkXaero]

The thing is, plus-defenders ALWAYS show up on deep stats. As I mentioned, it doesn't matter the quality of your teammates, the size of your offensive role or how successful the team is. Good defenders don't turn into atrocious defenders, Beal has no excuse.

Also, Holiday is a very good off-ball shooter, and his defense has not dipped. I feel like you have an opinion of him that's not rooted in fact or statistics. I'm no Stan for Jrue, he's just the far better and more realistic target for our needs.

Jrue is still a high level defender, and he's still a very good player. Jrue still has very strong defense metrics, and if you watch his defense, it's still there, so I'm not sure where this talk of decline is coming from. Beal's excuse is that he's carrying Wizards offense, and tbf, 30 PPG & 6 APG are huge numbers on that end.

Jrue is a decent off ball shooter, not a very good one. He shoots 36% on catch & shoot 3s. Dinwiddie who is often criticized for his 3pt shooting actually shoots slightly better (37%) on same volume. Jrue however shoots much better on pull up 3s than Dinwiddie, hence the superior overall %.

Anyways, I've long advocated for Jrue Holiday here, so you won't find any arguments from me, I think he's a really good fit here. I've seen so many interviews with NBA superstars (like Dame, Beal), and whenever they're asked who is the most underrated player in the league, everyone seems to answer Jrue Holiday. Dame just said that Jrue is the best guard defender in the league. High caliber players around the league greatly respect Jrue's game, and for good reason. He's one of the best guard defenders out there, and while he isn't great offensively imo, he's still a legitimate supporting scoring option, and he can be a good facilitator. He's the best, most realistic two way fit available out there for us imo.

[Hello Brooklyn]

A top 5 pick in this year's weak draft + Wolves 2021 top 3 protected 1st + Wiggins' horrible contract to make salaries match isn't really a better offer. Miami's "gold mine of young assets" is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, and Kendrick Nunn. Those are some good players but none of them are all star talent imo. Duncan Robinson is 26 years old and in line to get overpaid as he becomes a RFA next year. Nunn is 25 years old and also becomes a RFA next year.

I think yall need to stop underrating our assets, and its especially ironic considering how high some of you are on Levert. If he's a star, then how is an offer starting with him + other good assets isn't enough?

Golden State's offer is far better than ours. Getting two potential top 5 picks is a pretty strong return for a Superstar. Even if they have to eat Wiggins contract.

The Miami offer I was thinking of would include Bam. Who is obviously better than LeVert and much younger.

I could see other teams getting in the mix too. Philly with Simmons. Maybe even Denver.

What exactly are our assets?

LeVert is too old for a rebuild. Dinwiddie is even older and about to enter FA. Allen is a nice player, but no star. And they already have Bryant at that position. Our picks will all likely be late First Rounders. So will Philly's.

This is not going to pry away Beal fro DC who just resigned, has shown no indication he wants to leave and has incentive to play through the season with Wall.

Seems like a pipe dream.

There's no guarantee that Wolves pick will be top 5. In fact, Warriors would be very lucky if it was. Wolves now have D Lo and KAT, and they're looking to compete, so with the new GM (who is making good moves), they'll put a supporting cast around them this offseason.

There's no way in hell Miami are including Bam for Beal. It would be stupid to do so because Bam has become one of the very best bigs in the league, and he's steadily improving each year. They're not going to do that, nor should they.

I know its no guarantee bro. Thats why I said potential lol.

Still a WAY better offer than ours. Theres no denying that.

[DarkXaero]

Golden State's offer is far better than ours. Getting two potential top 5 picks is a pretty strong return for a Superstar. Even if they have to eat Wiggins contract.

The Miami offer I was thinking of would include Bam. Who is obviously better than LeVert and much younger.

I could see other teams getting in the mix too. Philly with Simmons. Maybe even Denver.

What exactly are our assets?

LeVert is too old for a rebuild. Dinwiddie is even older and about to enter FA. Allen is a nice player, but no star. And they already have Bryant at that position. Our picks will all likely be late First Rounders. So will Philly's.

This is not going to pry away Beal fro DC who just resigned, has shown no indication he wants to leave and has incentive to play through the season with Wall.

Seems like a pipe dream.

There's no guarantee that Wolves pick will be top 5. In fact, Warriors would be very lucky if it was. Wolves now have D Lo and KAT, and they're looking to compete, so with the new GM (who is making good moves), they'll put a supporting cast around them this offseason.

There's no way in hell Miami are including Bam for Beal. It would be stupid to do so because Bam has become one of the very best bigs in the league, and he's steadily improving each year. They're not going to do that, nor should they.

I know its no guarantee bro. Thats why I said potential lol.

Still a WAY better offer than ours. Theres no denying that.

I don't agree with that. This draft is one of the weakest I've seen, and I really don't see any great prospects. 2021 draft may be a completely different story but if Wolves overachieve, that pick may not be that valuable. Realistically, I think that pick ends up between 10-14. But Wiggins is legitimately one of the worst contracts in the league, and he's making $30 mill/yr on average for the next 3 seasons. Wizards already have one of the other worst contracts in the league (John Wall on supermax). With Wiggins and Wall, Wizards are essentially saying goodbye to their cap space for the next 3 years. That's around $70-80 mill of dead weight which is hard to swallow for any team, let alone a team with an owner like Ted Leonsis, who is one of the least rich owners in the league, and his business has been heavily affected by pandemic.

[MrDollarBills]

Am I the only one who wants to see what this team together can do. First of. We shouldn’t trade LeVert guy is a star. They will figure out how to play him with Irving and Durant. Spencer shouldn’t be traded either with Irving’s long history of injuries we will need spencer. As much as I like the idea of Caris at the point I think we will still need spencer. Even if Irving doesn’t get injured I like the idea of limiting his minutes So he doesn’t get hurt which is possible with spencer.

Hoping we can get rid of musa and prince for a bigger PF. But if we can’t we still have a nice roster. Sign Johnson and Crawford.

Irving/spencer/Crawford
LeVert/temple/Johnson
Harris/TLC/musa
Durant/rodi/prince
Allen/Jordan /claxton

15 players. Plus chioza to a two way contract. The only downside to this roster is defense. But it can outscore anyone in the league. I would very much like to see it happen.

Yeah, I think we should see what we look like. We still have the MLE to sign someone. I'm not sure if Temple gets retained.

Allen/Jordan/Claxton
Durant/Rodi
Harris/Prince/Temple
LeVert/Johnson/TLC
Irving/Dinwiddie/Chiozza

I think we need a PF that has some size and a wing defender.

[vincecarter4pres]

Yes, the deal works, and I would hate losing Claxton for this paltry return.

I'm not a fan of Prince, but I'd rather have him @$14mil on the bench than Barnes @$22mil. Harrison is not good enough to beat either of Levert or Harris for a starting spot IMO, and doesn't really stretch the floor or defend like you'd want from a combo forward. Bjelica is the Kings forward I would want.

I disagree highly here overall.

First off, everyone falls in love with the new flavor of the month. That's not to say Claxton can't become a really good player, or that he's not a very solid prospect, but the same thing happens with every player drafted by every teams' fans.

Second, he'd definitely make the starting lineup. He isn't a star, but he's basically the small ball 4/long 3 man version of Joe Harris in many regards. He stretches the floor just fine, he's at least an average defender and though he's not some high BBIQ wizard, he is certainly not a dumb player and is very athletic overall. He's like a slightly better version of younger Jeff Green.

Third, Caris imho, is not going to work in the starting lineup. He should be our 6xth man when we're fully healthy. People are going goo goo ga ga over Caris again and yet as good as he's been, he's still mainly that same guy who needs high usage and ball dominance to put up gawdy raw stats and he's still inefficient.

Fourth, Prince is a bucket of suck. Who cares about what they make? We're going to be wildly over the cap no matter what, probably hard capped and the price of tickets will still be sky high once we're allowed back in the arena as fans. Plus, Harrison's contract is actually of the most rare type, it goes down each year, ending at $18.5 in the 3rd and final of it's remaining seasons.

Fifth, in all these deals where any of us propose sending out Prince, he's most certainly a negative value asset. Even if Claxton is pretty valuable in real life, along with Rodi or a lotto protected future 1st, the value is not in a bubble, it's degraded by the undesirable Prince.

[vincecarter4pres]

Prince/Temple/Musa/Claxton for Harrison Barnes?

I think getting the most for these assets and freeing up a couple roster spots is the way to go.

Finally a trade idea that gives us something we can use without giving away the farm.

Barnes is a bust and doesn't have a team friendly contract, hard pass.

Not to mention Claxton has a lot of admirers within the Nets organization.

Actually, Barnes has a very team friendly contract for an average to slightly above average starter.

It goes 22, 20, 18.5 for the next 3 years. He's pretty efficient by most advanced stats, plays good D, is a very good shooter from deep, is athletic and is not a dumb player.

How's he a bust? Because the Warriors drafted him at 7, Dallas wildly overpaid him a few years back and he's not a star?

He's a good player. Nothing too special, but a good, low usage player who would fit this starting lineup like a glove and he's still young enough you don't worry about some sudden, steep, inevitable decline.

Who cares that he didn't live up to his draft hype?

Claxton has potential, but so did Chris McCullough.

Prince is a crap player on a bad contract, even if Claxton has high value, a lot of that is mitigated by attaching him to Prince, in any deal.

[MrDollarBills]

Yes, the deal works, and I would hate losing Claxton for this paltry return.

I'm not a fan of Prince, but I'd rather have him @$14mil on the bench than Barnes @$22mil. Harrison is not good enough to beat either of Levert or Harris for a starting spot IMO, and doesn't really stretch the floor or defend like you'd want from a combo forward. Bjelica is the Kings forward I would want.

I disagree highly here overall.

First off, everyone falls in love with the new flavor of the month. That's not to say Claxton can't become a really good player, or that he's not a very solid prospect, but the same thing happens with every player drafted by every teams' fans.

Second, he'd definitely make the starting lineup. He isn't a star, but he's basically the small ball 4/long 3 man version of Joe Harris in many regards. He stretches the floor just fine, he's at least an average defender and though he's not some high BBIQ wizard, he is certainly not a dumb player and is very athletic overall. He's like a slightly better version of younger Jeff Green.

Third, Caris imho, is not going to work in the starting lineup. He should be our 6xth man when we're fully healthy. People are going goo goo ga ga over Caris again and yet as good as he's been, he's still mainly that same guy who needs high usage and ball dominance to put up gawdy raw stats and he's still inefficient.

Fourth, Prince is a bucket of suck. Who cares about what they make? We're going to be wildly over the cap no matter what, probably hard capped and the price of tickets will still be sky high once we're allowed back in the arena as fans. Plus, Harrison's contract is actually of the most rare type, it goes down each year, ending at $18.5 in the 3rd and final of it's remaining seasons.

Fifth, in all these deals where any of us propose sending out Prince, he's most certainly a negative value asset. Even if Claxton is pretty valuable in real life, along with Rodi or a lotto protected future 1st, the value is not in a bubble, it's degraded by the undesirable Prince.

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

So let's say our starting 5 in March is Allen/KD/Harris/LeVert/Irving

Especially with opposing defenses worrying about:

Kyrie iso/shooting

KD's elite shooting and isolation ability

Allen as a roll to the rim threat

Joe Harris' shooting

Doesn't that feasibly leave a lot of room for LeVert to get touches within the scheme of things? I'm not saying he will be scoring 26 a night or anything but he definitely can be effective with the amount of spacing and coverage he will get.

[DarkXaero]

Prince was awful this year, but he is a better player than this, and he should bounce back next year. It's really unfortunate for us because we really could have used a productive season from him, in terms of trade value. I'm certain that he was re-signed early to be traded this offseason too (with his salary). Depending on the trade, we likely need to attach an asset to trade him for something of value, but I don't think his value is that negative. That contract isn't long enough and high salary enough, plus he's still a 6'7" forward with good shooting ability, and defensive potential. I'm sure some team out there still sees a potential 3&D role player in him.

[MrDollarBills]

Prince was awful this year, but he is a better player than this, and he should bounce back next year. It's really unfortunate for us because we really could have used a productive season from him, in terms of trade value. I'm certain that he was re-signed early to be traded this offseason too (with his salary). Depending on the trade, we likely need to attach an asset to trade him for something of value, but I don't think his value is that negative. That contract isn't long enough and high salary enough, plus he's still a 6'7" forward with good shooting ability, and defensive potential. I'm sure some team out there still sees a potential 3&D role player in him.

The issue with Prince is that he had to do more than he's capable of this season, same with Temple. All he needs to do is hit open threes, rebound, and play defense. On a fully loaded roster, Prince's positives will highly outweigh his negatives.

[DarkXaero]

Yes, the deal works, and I would hate losing Claxton for this paltry return.

I'm not a fan of Prince, but I'd rather have him @$14mil on the bench than Barnes @$22mil. Harrison is not good enough to beat either of Levert or Harris for a starting spot IMO, and doesn't really stretch the floor or defend like you'd want from a combo forward. Bjelica is the Kings forward I would want.

I disagree highly here overall.

First off, everyone falls in love with the new flavor of the month. That's not to say Claxton can't become a really good player, or that he's not a very solid prospect, but the same thing happens with every player drafted by every teams' fans.

Second, he'd definitely make the starting lineup. He isn't a star, but he's basically the small ball 4/long 3 man version of Joe Harris in many regards. He stretches the floor just fine, he's at least an average defender and though he's not some high BBIQ wizard, he is certainly not a dumb player and is very athletic overall. He's like a slightly better version of younger Jeff Green.

Third, Caris imho, is not going to work in the starting lineup. He should be our 6xth man when we're fully healthy. People are going goo goo ga ga over Caris again and yet as good as he's been, he's still mainly that same guy who needs high usage and ball dominance to put up gawdy raw stats and he's still inefficient.

Fourth, Prince is a bucket of suck. Who cares about what they make? We're going to be wildly over the cap no matter what, probably hard capped and the price of tickets will still be sky high once we're allowed back in the arena as fans. Plus, Harrison's contract is actually of the most rare type, it goes down each year, ending at $18.5 in the 3rd and final of it's remaining seasons.

Fifth, in all these deals where any of us propose sending out Prince, he's most certainly a negative value asset. Even if Claxton is pretty valuable in real life, along with Rodi or a lotto protected future 1st, the value is not in a bubble, it's degraded by the undesirable Prince.

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

But that takes away from Dinwiddie's effectiveness, if we have Levert leading the 2nd unit, and also starting. I think ultimately we have to make a decision, and one of them need to be traded for a better fit. We all have our opinions here, and disagreements on which player can stay, but I think we should be able to agree on that much. Having four high usage guys on the team next year is not good when we could improve another position or area. And that can be either making us defensively stronger, or getting in a better fit for the offense.

[MrDollarBills]

I disagree highly here overall.

First off, everyone falls in love with the new flavor of the month. That's not to say Claxton can't become a really good player, or that he's not a very solid prospect, but the same thing happens with every player drafted by every teams' fans.

Second, he'd definitely make the starting lineup. He isn't a star, but he's basically the small ball 4/long 3 man version of Joe Harris in many regards. He stretches the floor just fine, he's at least an average defender and though he's not some high BBIQ wizard, he is certainly not a dumb player and is very athletic overall. He's like a slightly better version of younger Jeff Green.

Third, Caris imho, is not going to work in the starting lineup. He should be our 6xth man when we're fully healthy. People are going goo goo ga ga over Caris again and yet as good as he's been, he's still mainly that same guy who needs high usage and ball dominance to put up gawdy raw stats and he's still inefficient.

Fourth, Prince is a bucket of suck. Who cares about what they make? We're going to be wildly over the cap no matter what, probably hard capped and the price of tickets will still be sky high once we're allowed back in the arena as fans. Plus, Harrison's contract is actually of the most rare type, it goes down each year, ending at $18.5 in the 3rd and final of it's remaining seasons.

Fifth, in all these deals where any of us propose sending out Prince, he's most certainly a negative value asset. Even if Claxton is pretty valuable in real life, along with Rodi or a lotto protected future 1st, the value is not in a bubble, it's degraded by the undesirable Prince.

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

But that takes away from Dinwiddie's effectiveness, if we have Levert leading the 2nd unit, and also starting. I think ultimately we have to make a decision, and one of them need to be traded for a better fit. We all have our opinions here, and disagreements on which player can stay, but I think we should be able to agree on that much. Having four high usage guys on the team next year is not good when we could improve another position or area. And that can be either making us defensively stronger, or getting in a better fit for the offense.

I was saying that with the idea of trading Spencer in mind....I like Spencer, but he's not going to be a Net past next season, so I think Marks will try to cash out on him so he doesn't leave for nothing.

[vincecarter4pres]

Prince/Temple/Musa/Claxton for Harrison Barnes?

Claxton is another LeVert/Dinwiddie level prospect with time and opportunity. No chance there.

Even if he is, you can't keep everyone, you can't develop everyone. I'm not saying give up the next Kawhi for George Hill, but eventually you have to give up something to get something. If we make a blockbuster move and Claxton isn't a part of it, he becomes #1 developmental piece on the totem pole by default.

[DarkXaero]

Prince was awful this year, but he is a better player than this, and he should bounce back next year. It's really unfortunate for us because we really could have used a productive season from him, in terms of trade value. I'm certain that he was re-signed early to be traded this offseason too (with his salary). Depending on the trade, we likely need to attach an asset to trade him for something of value, but I don't think his value is that negative. That contract isn't long enough and high salary enough, plus he's still a 6'7" forward with good shooting ability, and defensive potential. I'm sure some team out there still sees a potential 3&D role player in him.

The issue with Prince is that he had to do more than he's capable of this season, same with Temple. All he needs to do is hit open threes, rebound, and play defense. On a fully loaded roster, Prince's positives will highly outweigh his negatives.

That's definitely true to an extent (I believe Prince shot the ball well next to Kyrie), but at the same time, Prince's shooting numbers declined a lot from where they were a year before. He went from being a great catch & shoot guy in Atlanta to mediocre here, and it's not like that Atlanta team was talented. As a defender, I think he plays good man defense, but is terrible as a team defender, and gets lost often. That part of his game is hard to improve, but if he can, he would be a good 3&D player in this league.

[vincecarter4pres]

Yes, the deal works, and I would hate losing Claxton for this paltry return.

I'm not a fan of Prince, but I'd rather have him @$14mil on the bench than Barnes @$22mil. Harrison is not good enough to beat either of Levert or Harris for a starting spot IMO, and doesn't really stretch the floor or defend like you'd want from a combo forward. Bjelica is the Kings forward I would want.

I disagree highly here overall.

First off, everyone falls in love with the new flavor of the month. That's not to say Claxton can't become a really good player, or that he's not a very solid prospect, but the same thing happens with every player drafted by every teams' fans.

Second, he'd definitely make the starting lineup. He isn't a star, but he's basically the small ball 4/long 3 man version of Joe Harris in many regards. He stretches the floor just fine, he's at least an average defender and though he's not some high BBIQ wizard, he is certainly not a dumb player and is very athletic overall. He's like a slightly better version of younger Jeff Green.

Third, Caris imho, is not going to work in the starting lineup. He should be our 6xth man when we're fully healthy. People are going goo goo ga ga over Caris again and yet as good as he's been, he's still mainly that same guy who needs high usage and ball dominance to put up gawdy raw stats and he's still inefficient.

Fourth, Prince is a bucket of suck. Who cares about what they make? We're going to be wildly over the cap no matter what, probably hard capped and the price of tickets will still be sky high once we're allowed back in the arena as fans. Plus, Harrison's contract is actually of the most rare type, it goes down each year, ending at $18.5 in the 3rd and final of it's remaining seasons.

Fifth, in all these deals where any of us propose sending out Prince, he's most certainly a negative value asset. Even if Claxton is pretty valuable in real life, along with Rodi or a lotto protected future 1st, the value is not in a bubble, it's degraded by the undesirable Prince.

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

So let's say our starting 5 in March is Allen/KD/Harris/LeVert/Irving

Especially with opposing defenses worrying about:

Kyrie iso/shooting

KD's elite shooting and isolation ability

Allen as a roll to the rim threat

Joe Harris' shooting

Doesn't that feasibly leave a lot of room for LeVert to get touches within the scheme of things? I'm not saying he will be scoring 26 a night or anything but he definitely can be effective with the amount of spacing and coverage he will get.

I can see it to an extent, like I don't think LeVert as a starter will be a disaster by any means. But to me, to get the most out of him, the most effectiveness and impact that is, not just stats, is he's our Ginobili. I think some of the allure of Pop coming here is to mold LeVert in that role as well, though Ginobili was the better off ball guy and shooter to begin with, but I digress.

[vincecarter4pres]

I disagree highly here overall.

First off, everyone falls in love with the new flavor of the month. That's not to say Claxton can't become a really good player, or that he's not a very solid prospect, but the same thing happens with every player drafted by every teams' fans.

Second, he'd definitely make the starting lineup. He isn't a star, but he's basically the small ball 4/long 3 man version of Joe Harris in many regards. He stretches the floor just fine, he's at least an average defender and though he's not some high BBIQ wizard, he is certainly not a dumb player and is very athletic overall. He's like a slightly better version of younger Jeff Green.

Third, Caris imho, is not going to work in the starting lineup. He should be our 6xth man when we're fully healthy. People are going goo goo ga ga over Caris again and yet as good as he's been, he's still mainly that same guy who needs high usage and ball dominance to put up gawdy raw stats and he's still inefficient.

Fourth, Prince is a bucket of suck. Who cares about what they make? We're going to be wildly over the cap no matter what, probably hard capped and the price of tickets will still be sky high once we're allowed back in the arena as fans. Plus, Harrison's contract is actually of the most rare type, it goes down each year, ending at $18.5 in the 3rd and final of it's remaining seasons.

Fifth, in all these deals where any of us propose sending out Prince, he's most certainly a negative value asset. Even if Claxton is pretty valuable in real life, along with Rodi or a lotto protected future 1st, the value is not in a bubble, it's degraded by the undesirable Prince.

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

But that takes away from Dinwiddie's effectiveness, if we have Levert leading the 2nd unit, and also starting. I think ultimately we have to make a decision, and one of them need to be traded for a better fit. We all have our opinions here, and disagreements on which player can stay, but I think we should be able to agree on that much. Having four high usage guys on the team next year is not good when we could improve another position or area. And that can be either making us defensively stronger, or getting in a better fit for the offense.

This is where I'm at as well. And honestly I almost always suggest keeping LeVert over Dinwiddie because:

A. LeVert is my 1b favorite player on this roster to Kyrie's 1a.

B. LeVert is on a very team friendly, longer term contract.

C. Although almost the same age, I still see LeVert having better remaining potential, even though Dinwiddie is the currently better player.

D. It will be hard to retain Dinwiddie.

E. Dinwiddie's ego/attitude seems to clash with others here often.

[DarkXaero]

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

But that takes away from Dinwiddie's effectiveness, if we have Levert leading the 2nd unit, and also starting. I think ultimately we have to make a decision, and one of them need to be traded for a better fit. We all have our opinions here, and disagreements on which player can stay, but I think we should be able to agree on that much. Having four high usage guys on the team next year is not good when we could improve another position or area. And that can be either making us defensively stronger, or getting in a better fit for the offense.

I was saying that with the idea of trading Spencer in mind....I like Spencer, but he's not going to be a Net past next season, so I think Marks will try to cash out on him so he doesn't leave for nothing.

Maybe so but Dinwiddie being an expiring won't net us as much as Levert who is locked up for 3 more seasons. Dinwiddie has also proven to be a more adaptable fit next to Kyrie, and is less injury prone. Levert's higher salary is also more helpful in bigger trades. It's a pretty difficult choice.

[vincecarter4pres]

Prince was awful this year, but he is a better player than this, and he should bounce back next year. It's really unfortunate for us because we really could have used a productive season from him, in terms of trade value. I'm certain that he was re-signed early to be traded this offseason too (with his salary). Depending on the trade, we likely need to attach an asset to trade him for something of value, but I don't think his value is that negative. That contract isn't long enough and high salary enough, plus he's still a 6'7" forward with good shooting ability, and defensive potential. I'm sure some team out there still sees a potential 3&D role player in him.

The issue with Prince is that he had to do more than he's capable of this season, same with Temple. All he needs to do is hit open threes, rebound, and play defense. On a fully loaded roster, Prince's positives will highly outweigh his negatives.

I can't fully get behind this MDB.

Like if you were to say he'd go from being straight up babbage to decent mediocre, yeah, could agree.

But it seems unlikely he's every going to be an actual good or average player.

[DarkXaero]

I think we could get away with this if we stagger LeVert in the starting line up and have him lead the 2nd unit.

Let's not forget, KD didn't come here to have to do heavy lifting. Irving is not going to want to have to score 50 points every time he plays to get wins. I think LeVert will end up getting more usage next season than we may think.

But that takes away from Dinwiddie's effectiveness, if we have Levert leading the 2nd unit, and also starting. I think ultimately we have to make a decision, and one of them need to be traded for a better fit. We all have our opinions here, and disagreements on which player can stay, but I think we should be able to agree on that much. Having four high usage guys on the team next year is not good when we could improve another position or area. And that can be either making us defensively stronger, or getting in a better fit for the offense.

This is where I'm at as well. And honestly I almost always suggest keeping LeVert over Dinwiddie because:

A. LeVert is my 1b favorite player on this roster to Kyrie's 1a.

B. LeVert is on a very team friendly, longer term contract.

C. Although almost the same age, I still see LeVert having better remaining potential, even though Dinwiddie is the currently better player.

D. It will be hard to retain Dinwiddie.

E. Dinwiddie's ego/attitude seems to clash with others here often.

I don't understand this, I don't know where it's coming from. It's in complete contrast to what's actually available. Dinwiddie has propped up Levert as the third star on this team, he has accepted a sixth man role behind Kyrie (someone he helped recruit), and he has taken a lesser deal here to help us. Joe Harris has endorsed him as his favorite teammate.

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This perception of Dinwiddie as an egotistical diva is baffling to me.