2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[NyCeEvO]

All this talk about Love makes me wanna puke.

We're not giving up any young players or picks for him that would be required as the third team in a Melo trade and he's by no means a salary dump candidate.

Just truly pointless conversation.

Can we please get back to discussing things that have at least a 1% chance of happening?

Someone posted a hypothetical and people responded to it. Discussing hypothetical situations is what people do on forums 90% of the time. I have no problem moving on from it but the conversation was/is a perfectly fine topic.

[tonman]

Fighting for the 8th seed?

So basically you want us to model ourselves after the Detroit Pistons. No thanks.

Maybe RHJ and Allen can actually learn a few thing from Love which could help their development in the future....Losing 70 games next year will not do anything for your rebuild nor will your young guys learn much from getting their head bashed every night.

this was proven incorrect last year, as we won 20 games and saw elite development from young players.

kevin love would drastically derail our rebuild

Nets youngsters had shown development because there was a vet point guard and a vet big man taking the pressure off the younger players.


2014 wolves won 40 games most since 2005 season. I after 4 seasons, new look wolves may reach 40 wins. If mot, the love lead 2014 would still be best wolves team since 2005. Everything is relative.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

All this talk about Love makes me wanna puke.

We're not giving up any young players or picks for him that would be required as the third team in a Melo trade and he's by no means a salary dump candidate.

Just truly pointless conversation.

Can we please get back to discussing things that have at least a 1% chance of happening?

Someone posted a hypothetical and people responded to it. Discussing hypothetical situations is what people do on forums 90% of the time. I have no problem moving on from it but the conversation was/is a perfectly fine topic.

My gripe was how unrealistic the hypothetical was and how it degraded into an argument about Kevin Loves skills which, I may be out of line saying this, is better fit for the Around the NBA forum. And that argument basically dominated and drowned other more relevant and reasonable topics.

[IceManBK1]

Nets need to make an off to Nerlens Noel. They might be lookign at a stretch 5. But having a defensive force in middle who does all the dirty work is more important when it comes to winning. Noel is also a good at p&r on offense and defense.

[imanshar]

Nets need to make an off to Nerlens Noel. They might be lookign at a stretch 5. But having a defensive force in middle who does all the dirty work is more important when it comes to winning. Noel is also a good at p&r on offense and defense.

We have Allen and Mozgov already.

[SpeedyG]

All this talk about Love makes me wanna puke.

We're not giving up any young players or picks for him that would be required as the third team in a Melo trade and he's by no means a salary dump candidate.

Just truly pointless conversation.

Can we please get back to discussing things that have at least a 1% chance of happening?

It's really not pointless. Quite frankly, this has been one of the better discussed topics in this forum since I've come back to browse, imo.

Take away the player the name of the player and you see a pattern of template that the Nets fanbase think we need/don't need.

Or we can go back to the rehashed Lopez bashing or pro Lin vs. anti Lin, etc

[MrDollarBills]

Seriously, how is it a shortcut?

We don't own our pick in '18 and by '19 that pick should be devalued through natural progression and if it's not something is going very very wrong.

Love for scraps is exactly the type of move Marks should and would go for, as long as he didn't think he'd be a cancer here.

And he's mobile even though he isn't a rim protector and shot blocker, he's not the sieve it once seemed he was. Is he a good defender? Probably not, but he's mediocre to adequate and isn't going to submarine your whole lineup when he's out there.

You have him for 2 seasons to ease the transition of the young guys, promote progression and give a star's whistle to the refs. He is a guy who needs to be game planned against and frees up guys like LeVert and Russell to freelance and score within the system.

As per system, he fits Kenny's like some suede Isotoners.

Helps gives the young guys a taste of the playoffs before their rookie contracts are up and makes perspective FA's in 2 or 3 years something to think about, like hey, Love liked it there and I'm better than him, let's get it.

And as for winning teams in Minny, those rosters were often him and a flaming dumpster fire of nothingness and he still lead those teams to 40 something wins in a brutal West coast a time or 2 while even missing a lot of games. The way he's similar to Lopez is he's not a top dog, but he's definitely overall better, definitely not the defensive liability Lopez is and is the embodiment of the modern 4 minus some shot blocking, who fits into a movement based team over iso offensive system that stresses spacing, versatility and ball movement like a champ.

In the mainly unrealistic scenario where you can cop him for some expirings and a couple low level young guys like Goodwin and Whitehead, you yell, "No take backs!", at the top of your vocal range as you're faxing the signed paperwork to Secaucus with Adam Silver on the other line asking him to grab his official NBA League Office rubber stamp before Scott Perry finishes his Big Gulp full of black coffee and fish scale to end the lasting effects of his 4 day Jose Cuervo and Purple Drank bender.

I think it's a shortcut because in reality getting a guy like Love, who I think is equal to Brook who got ran out of here impact wise, will cost players that we should focus on developing during this time period where no one in the NBA is winning squat with these top heavy superteams being compiled out west. I'd rather not waste assets or time just to win 38 games, which is what you'll get with Kevin Love. I know its a hypothetical and we're really just debating out of boredom, but I say...stay the course. Suck it up. We're gonna lose games. but as long as these young kids improve in the process and learn, i don't care.

@ the big gulp. That made me think about this:

[TheBrooklynKidd]

All this talk about Love makes me wanna puke.

We're not giving up any young players or picks for him that would be required as the third team in a Melo trade and he's by no means a salary dump candidate.

Just truly pointless conversation.

Can we please get back to discussing things that have at least a 1% chance of happening?

It's really not pointless. Quite frankly, this has been one of the better discussed topics in this forum since I've come back to browse, imo.

Take away the player the name of the player and you see a pattern of template that the Nets fanbase think we need/don't need.

Or we can go back to the rehashed Lopez bashing or pro Lin vs. anti Lin, etc

Cool.

However you can't just remove the player because most of the conversation has been about him specifically and how his failures compare to Lopez and what we would have to give up to get him.

Any talk about love is pointless because there's no realistic scenario where he actually ends up on the team.

Why don't we talk about how Al Horford or Bradely Beal or CJ McCollum would be on the Nets while we're at it. All guy's who will never be on this team as long as they sustain their borderline all-star level of play.

[MrDollarBills]

All this talk about Love makes me wanna puke.

We're not giving up any young players or picks for him that would be required as the third team in a Melo trade and he's by no means a salary dump candidate.

Just truly pointless conversation.

Can we please get back to discussing things that have at least a 1% chance of happening?

It's really not pointless. Quite frankly, this has been one of the better discussed topics in this forum since I've come back to browse, imo.

Take away the player the name of the player and you see a pattern of template that the Nets fanbase think we need/don't need.

Or we can go back to the rehashed Lopez bashing or pro Lin vs. anti Lin, etc

Agreed. It was an interesting hypothetical re: Kevin Love.

I don't think we need to invest in offense only players like him. some disagree. its cool. i think debate is healthy AF tbh. echo chambers stifle critical thinking.

[vincecarter4pres]

All this talk about Love makes me wanna puke.

We're not giving up any young players or picks for him that would be required as the third team in a Melo trade and he's by no means a salary dump candidate.

Just truly pointless conversation.

Can we please get back to discussing things that have at least a 1% chance of happening?

It's really not pointless. Quite frankly, this has been one of the better discussed topics in this forum since I've come back to browse, imo.

Take away the player the name of the player and you see a pattern of template that the Nets fanbase think we need/don't need.

Or we can go back to the rehashed Lopez bashing or pro Lin vs. anti Lin, etc

Cool.

However you can't just remove the player because most of the conversation has been about him specifically and how his failures compare to Lopez and what we would have to give up to get him.

Any talk about love is pointless because there's no realistic scenario where he actually ends up on the team.

Why don't we talk about how Al Horford or Bradely Beal or CJ McCollum would be on the Nets while we're at it. All guy's who will never be on this team as long as they sustain their borderline all-star level of play.

To me it's pretty facetious to compare these guys situations and you have to know that.

There is a very real possibility the Cleveland Lebrons would trade Love for Melo.
There is a very real possibility the only offers the Knix get for Melo is bad contracts and no asset compensation.
There is a very real possibility if it came down to Cleveland we could sneak in there for cap space, expirings and a couple prospects like Goodwin and Whitehead.
There is a very real possibility especially because we'd be viewed as a harmless destination from Cleveland's view and as unlikely as the Knix are to deal with the Nets, we'd give them a large amount more salary relief than most teams could or would offer.

I'm not trying to make it seem likely, but let's not act like stars, specifically over the hill ones(Melo), bring back a ton in value.

[MrDollarBills]

It's really not pointless. Quite frankly, this has been one of the better discussed topics in this forum since I've come back to browse, imo.

Take away the player the name of the player and you see a pattern of template that the Nets fanbase think we need/don't need.

Or we can go back to the rehashed Lopez bashing or pro Lin vs. anti Lin, etc

Cool.

However you can't just remove the player because most of the conversation has been about him specifically and how his failures compare to Lopez and what we would have to give up to get him.

Any talk about love is pointless because there's no realistic scenario where he actually ends up on the team.

Why don't we talk about how Al Horford or Bradely Beal or CJ McCollum would be on the Nets while we're at it. All guy's who will never be on this team as long as they sustain their borderline all-star level of play.

To me it's pretty facetious to compare these guys situations and you have to know that.

There is a very real possibility the Cleveland Lebrons would trade Love for Melo.
There is a very real possibility the only offers the Knix get for Melo is bad contracts and no asset compensation.
There is a very real possibility if it came down to Cleveland we could sneak in there for cap space, expirings and a couple prospects like Goodwin and Whitehead.
There is a very real possibility especially because we'd be viewed as a harmless destination from Cleveland's view and as unlikely as the Knix are to deal with the Nets, we'd give them a large amount more salary relief than most teams could or would offer.

I'm not trying to make it seem likely, but let's not act like stars, specifically over the hill ones(Melo), bring back a ton in value.

See, I'd rather develop Whitehead and Goodwin in our system as opposed to hopping into that.

will Kevin Love come with a 1st rd pick?

[vincecarter4pres]

Cool.

However you can't just remove the player because most of the conversation has been about him specifically and how his failures compare to Lopez and what we would have to give up to get him.

Any talk about love is pointless because there's no realistic scenario where he actually ends up on the team.

Why don't we talk about how Al Horford or Bradely Beal or CJ McCollum would be on the Nets while we're at it. All guy's who will never be on this team as long as they sustain their borderline all-star level of play.

To me it's pretty facetious to compare these guys situations and you have to know that.

There is a very real possibility the Cleveland Lebrons would trade Love for Melo.
There is a very real possibility the only offers the Knix get for Melo is bad contracts and no asset compensation.
There is a very real possibility if it came down to Cleveland we could sneak in there for cap space, expirings and a couple prospects like Goodwin and Whitehead.
There is a very real possibility especially because we'd be viewed as a harmless destination from Cleveland's view and as unlikely as the Knix are to deal with the Nets, we'd give them a large amount more salary relief than most teams could or would offer.

I'm not trying to make it seem likely, but let's not act like stars, specifically over the hill ones(Melo), bring back a ton in value.

See, I'd rather develop Whitehead and Goodwin in our system as opposed to hopping into that.

will Kevin Love come with a 1st rd pick?

I hear that, but sometimes I feel like we start getting into the mode of thinking that all these guys are actually going to develop, when some of them won't even be in the league in 3 years. Or a lot of times when you look at successful role players, they don't wind up effective players until 6 or 7 years down the line, while on their 3rd team, no matter which organization drafted them.

I mean I do like both these guys, but sometimes you have to look at it from the outside. If these 2 were on a different team, would we really believe they were either valuable, or that they were likely to ever be more than a standard issue 12mpg rotation guy and 2 or 3 seasons down the line?

These guys are pretty expendable imho, at least in a deal like this.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

It's really not pointless. Quite frankly, this has been one of the better discussed topics in this forum since I've come back to browse, imo.

Take away the player the name of the player and you see a pattern of template that the Nets fanbase think we need/don't need.

Or we can go back to the rehashed Lopez bashing or pro Lin vs. anti Lin, etc

Cool.

However you can't just remove the player because most of the conversation has been about him specifically and how his failures compare to Lopez and what we would have to give up to get him.

Any talk about love is pointless because there's no realistic scenario where he actually ends up on the team.

Why don't we talk about how Al Horford or Bradely Beal or CJ McCollum would be on the Nets while we're at it. All guy's who will never be on this team as long as they sustain their borderline all-star level of play.

To me it's pretty facetious to compare these guys situations and you have to know that.

There is a very real possibility the Cleveland Lebrons would trade Love for Melo.
There is a very real possibility the only offers the Knix get for Melo is bad contracts and no asset compensation.
There is a very real possibility if it came down to Cleveland we could sneak in there for cap space, expirings and a couple prospects like Goodwin and Whitehead.
There is a very real possibility especially because we'd be viewed as a harmless destination from Cleveland's view and as unlikely as the Knix are to deal with the Nets, we'd give them a large amount more salary relief than most teams could or would offer.

I'm not trying to make it seem likely, but let's not act like stars, specifically over the hill ones(Melo), bring back a ton in value.

You're wrong on many levels.

Lebron himself "understands that you can't trade Love for Melo" according to reports. And we all know that love is worth more than Melo at this point. I know Melos value is very low, that's why the trade hasn't happened.

There is no way the Knicks would allow their cross town rival to recieve a 2017 all-star while they only received cap relief.

There is no world where the Knicks view cap space as more valuable than 4 time all star Kevin Love.

In this imaginary world where 4 time all star Love is only worth cap space, there are plenty of other teams that would give only expiring contracts and cap relief for a 2017 all star that are no where near the NY market.

This discussion has nothing to do with Melos value, rather Loves value which is higher than Melos and higher than plain cap relief it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

I would bet all the money I will ever make in my lifetime that prime Kevin Love will not be traded to the Nets in a trade involving the Knicks trading Melo to the Cavs.

There is no scenario where we acquire 4 time all star Kevin Love in his prime without giving up at least Caris LeVert. Which I highly doubt Sean Marks would ever do.

So yes it does make sense to compare him to other, honestly more realistic scenarios where we acquire McCollum or Beal by giving the teams actual value as opposed to Love for cap space.

[MrDollarBills]

To me it's pretty facetious to compare these guys situations and you have to know that.

There is a very real possibility the Cleveland Lebrons would trade Love for Melo.
There is a very real possibility the only offers the Knix get for Melo is bad contracts and no asset compensation.
There is a very real possibility if it came down to Cleveland we could sneak in there for cap space, expirings and a couple prospects like Goodwin and Whitehead.
There is a very real possibility especially because we'd be viewed as a harmless destination from Cleveland's view and as unlikely as the Knix are to deal with the Nets, we'd give them a large amount more salary relief than most teams could or would offer.

I'm not trying to make it seem likely, but let's not act like stars, specifically over the hill ones(Melo), bring back a ton in value.

See, I'd rather develop Whitehead and Goodwin in our system as opposed to hopping into that.

will Kevin Love come with a 1st rd pick?

I hear that, but sometimes I feel like we start getting into the mode of thinking that all these guys are actually going to develop, when some of them won't even be in the league in 3 years. Or a lot of times when you look at successful role players, they don't wind up effective players until 6 or 7 years down the line, while on their 3rd team, no matter which organization drafted them.

I mean I do like both these guys, but sometimes you have to look at it from the outside. If these 2 were on a different team, would we really believe they were either valuable, or that they were likely to ever be more than a standard issue 12mpg rotation guy and 2 or 3 seasons down the line?

These guys are pretty expendable imho, at least in a deal like this.

But if they were on another team, you wouldn't have as much information about either of them on court or off.

I mean, I'm not saying, hold on to everyone, don't make a move. The idea of building a talent pool of young players is to ultimately either develop them as long term pieces or flip them in trades. I just don't know if I dump two guards w/ upside for a 28 year old who would probably bolt asap and has a track record of not leading teams anywhere when he's the focus. I think whitehead can become a good 3 + D player in time. Goodwin really could grow here.

I dunno, i just think we should invest more in development then dumping guys for 2 year rentals. we're not in that position yet. 2 years from now, this discussion will be different. now? nah.

[hood30]

Nets need to make an off to Nerlens Noel. They might be lookign at a stretch 5. But having a defensive force in middle who does all the dirty work is more important when it comes to winning. Noel is also a good at p&r on offense and defense.

They already have Mozgov who will play and Allen who they drafted to develop, so not sure there's a need for Noel, specially on a big contract..It'll probably take around 15M to sign Noel and I don't think he's good anyway....This team need someone in the front court that can score.

[hood30]

To me it's pretty facetious to compare these guys situations and you have to know that.

There is a very real possibility the Cleveland Lebrons would trade Love for Melo.
There is a very real possibility the only offers the Knix get for Melo is bad contracts and no asset compensation.
There is a very real possibility if it came down to Cleveland we could sneak in there for cap space, expirings and a couple prospects like Goodwin and Whitehead.
There is a very real possibility especially because we'd be viewed as a harmless destination from Cleveland's view and as unlikely as the Knix are to deal with the Nets, we'd give them a large amount more salary relief than most teams could or would offer.

I'm not trying to make it seem likely, but let's not act like stars, specifically over the hill ones(Melo), bring back a ton in value.

See, I'd rather develop Whitehead and Goodwin in our system as opposed to hopping into that.

will Kevin Love come with a 1st rd pick?

I hear that, but sometimes I feel like we start getting into the mode of thinking that all these guys are actually going to develop, when some of them won't even be in the league in 3 years. Or a lot of times when you look at successful role players, they don't wind up effective players until 6 or 7 years down the line, while on their 3rd team, no matter which organization drafted them.

I mean I do like both these guys, but sometimes you have to look at it from the outside. If these 2 were on a different team, would we really believe they were either valuable, or that they were likely to ever be more than a standard issue 12mpg rotation guy and 2 or 3 seasons down the line?

These guys are pretty expendable imho, at least in a deal like this.

Agree with this..Sometimes, people talk as if all these young guys are guaranteed to eventually improve into players good enough to be starters in this league...Some of that is based on the idea Kenny can magically turn any average looking young player into a good player, so even a guy like RHJ can't be traded for an older very good player.

DLo is the only guy that has a chance of actually become a star...LeVert bar is as a good starting role player...After that, most of other young guys will probably only become role players off the bench....You can't treat all of them the same as for development.

[oldjim]

See, I'd rather develop Whitehead and Goodwin in our system as opposed to hopping into that.

will Kevin Love come with a 1st rd pick?

I hear that, but sometimes I feel like we start getting into the mode of thinking that all these guys are actually going to develop, when some of them won't even be in the league in 3 years. Or a lot of times when you look at successful role players, they don't wind up effective players until 6 or 7 years down the line, while on their 3rd team, no matter which organization drafted them.

I mean I do like both these guys, but sometimes you have to look at it from the outside. If these 2 were on a different team, would we really believe they were either valuable, or that they were likely to ever be more than a standard issue 12mpg rotation guy and 2 or 3 seasons down the line?

These guys are pretty expendable imho, at least in a deal like this.

Agree with this..Sometimes, people talk as if all these young guys are guaranteed to eventually improve into players good enough to be starters in this league...Some of that is based on the idea Kenny can magically turn any average looking young player into a good player, so even a guy like RHJ can't be traded for an older very good player.

DLo is the only guy that has a chance of actually become a star...LeVert bar is as a good starting role player...After that, most of other young guys will probably only become role players off the bench....You can't treat all of them the same as for development.

whitehead will be better than patrick beverly ,he is athletic. A very good role player or starter level player.
levert will be next batum, a star player but not allstar.
russell , if he improve his defense at least to the foye's defensive level, he will be a star player , but not allstar level. he is not athletic.

[JoseRizal]

I don't know with you guys but I'm a bit disappointed with us not being able to sign KCP.

Not to assume, but I think we could've gotten him for 4/60 or 4/70. There were no reports that our FO met with him and his rep. More years means better security from a player's standpoint. We could've easily beaten LA's 1-year offer.

Having a KCP would've added legit starters to the team as well as strong competition with our wings. He will keep Dlo, CLV, IW and the rest of our youngsters up in their toes. Now, we have no choice but to roll the season with half of our summer league team, unless there are last minute acquisitions/transactions to be made.

He may have flaws in his game, but KCP is a competitor and a very good defender. It would make our team a bit respectable and competitive. He's still young and would've been either a part of our core or a good tradeable asset to have.

I really don't understand why Marks didn't pursue him. He would've been a good consolation prize after lucking out on Porter at almost half the price. Now we're left with bread crumbs and a large unused capspace.

Do we really need to add more dead weight contracts for a late pick? We already have Mozgov, Carroll & Nicholson. Having a young former-lotto pick with starter experience would've been really big in our campaign. It's a no-brainer gamble imo.

I really hope Marks proves me wrong and that he has a better plan. So far, this is the only letdown I have in the Marksman regime...

[lowess]

I think KCPs camp wants more than that. They turned down the 5/80 offer from Detroit.
I do not want KCP on a max or max. He has average to below-averagr winspan and average dribble.

I don't know with you guys but I'm a bit disappointed with us not being able to sign KCP.

Not to assume, but I think we could've gotten him for 4/60 or 4/70. There were no reports that our FO met with him and his rep. More years means better security from a player's standpoint. We could've easily beaten LA's 1-year offer.

Having a KCP would've added legit starters to the team as well as strong competition with our wings. He will keep Dlo, CLV, IW and the rest of our youngsters up in their toes. Now, we have no choice but to roll the season with half of our summer league team, unless there are last minute acquisitions/transactions to be made.

He may have flaws in his game, but KCP is a competitor and a very good defender. It would make our team a bit respectable and competitive. He's still young and would've been either a part of our core or a good tradeable asset to have.

I really don't understand why Marks didn't pursue him. He would've been a good consolation prize after lucking out on Porter at almost half the price. Now we're left with bread crumbs and a large unused capspace.

Do we really need to add more dead weight contracts for a late pick? We already have Mozgov, Carroll & Nicholson. Having a young former-lotto pick with starter experience would've been really big in our campaign. It's a no-brainer gamble imo.

I really hope Marks proves me wrong and that he has a better plan. So far, this is the only letdown I have in the Marksman regime...

[MrDollarBills]

I don't know with you guys but I'm a bit disappointed with us not being able to sign KCP.

Not to assume, but I think we could've gotten him for 4/60 or 4/70. There were no reports that our FO met with him and his rep. More years means better security from a player's standpoint. We could've easily beaten LA's 1-year offer.

Having a KCP would've added legit starters to the team as well as strong competition with our wings. He will keep Dlo, CLV, IW and the rest of our youngsters up in their toes. Now, we have no choice but to roll the season with half of our summer league team, unless there are last minute acquisitions/transactions to be made.

He may have flaws in his game, but KCP is a competitor and a very good defender. It would make our team a bit respectable and competitive. He's still young and would've been either a part of our core or a good tradeable asset to have.

I really don't understand why Marks didn't pursue him. He would've been a good consolation prize after lucking out on Porter at almost half the price. Now we're left with bread crumbs and a large unused capspace.

Do we really need to add more dead weight contracts for a late pick? We already have Mozgov, Carroll & Nicholson. Having a young former-lotto pick with starter experience would've been really big in our campaign. It's a no-brainer gamble imo.

I really hope Marks proves me wrong and that he has a better plan. So far, this is the only letdown I have in the Marksman regime...

I'm disappointed as well. I thought he'd be a great addition and would thrive in our system. I value competitiveness over flaws. That's a after effect of the Deron Williams era I guess. I care more about a player's willingness to go out there and compete than I do about his overall talent level or his on court flaws. This is why I put more value into guys like RHJ or Trevor Booker than most. They are both highly flawed players, but they go out there and get their hands dirty. It's the mentality. KCP is one of those kinds of players. It's a shame really.

That being said, if the Marksman walked away because KCP wanted a max contract, I totally agree with him.

I don't want to add anymore dead weight contracts. We would need a pick that is in the lottery for us to take on another one imo.