2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Prokorov]

We are meeting with porter today....

im scared a max offer is imminent now. kings made a max offer, so if we didnt call off ouir meeting it probably means we are making him a max offer as well.

we still have 2 outs... he could accept the kings offer over ours or the wizards could match.

nervous. ive been trying to talk myself into porter and it makes more sense after the russell trade but deep down i know thats an awful long term deal and once our young guys are due extensions its going to create some real complications.

[Prokorov]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

[steady]

Their owner stated he would pay tax for 1 year. Masai wont take anything but fair to great value.

were talking about a guy who dumped bargani and GOT a pick in return

You also have to realize that the owner isn't going to kill his GM's leverage by saying they need to dump salary either so take that with a grain of salt.

masai already has all the leverage... he signed all his guys already. at this point its just a tax move and tax isnt calculated until seasons end. he can wait until the deadline if he needs to. owners typically dont say they will pay the tax then not do it if it comes to it... fans turn quickly on that. and toronto is all about their fans.

Masai will almost for sure get a fair deal or good value.

2018 protected first + a 2nd or prospect from saikim/bruno/nogiera + a second seems likely

On other hand, b/c they signed on with Lowry/Ibaka/DeRozan - this is a win now roster. And they know theyre not winning anything with current supporting cast - but I agree with everyone. Masai would be. Brutal guy to negotiate against ... I would look to Denver instead

[Paradise]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Nobody is signing here unless we add some better players to this year's rosters to entice other free agents in 2018, 2019. That's the whole point.

Mozgov, Nicholson are going to be more attractive contracts in 2 seasons. Less time than the duration of the aforementioned free agent contracts.


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[DeRoma]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Ehh.. I think you have to add in the consideration that no player that is just coming out of their RFA contract will sign with us. They have no relation with our group of guys being that our guys are came from D-League or pretty new in the NBA. It's like going to party, You'd want atleast one person you are boys with to go that party. There are two ways those type of players that will come here A) They want to be a Brooklyn Net (Highly unlikely) or B) Marks and KA have a good rapport with them (most likely only a handful of players).

I'm fine with the idea of getting Green because he adds in a big need. You really can't count him out without development. Who knows his gritty, tough nature could get him to a next level of play.

[vincecarter4pres]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Ehh.. I think you have to add in the consideration that no player that is just coming out of their RFA contract will sign with us. They have no relation with our group of guys being that our guys are came from D-League or pretty new in the NBA. It's like going to party, You'd want atleast one person you are boys with to go that party. There are two ways those type of players that will come here A) They want to be a Brooklyn Net (Highly unlikely) or B) Marks and KA have a good rapport with them (most likely only a handful of players).

I'm fine with the idea of getting Green because he adds in a big need. You really can't count him out without development. Who knows his gritty, tough nature could get him to a next level of play.

Yeah, Green is the only guy I as a fan would personally approve of.

If we do add Green, I hope the buck stops there. Booker and Hamilton come off the cap next year. Lin might opt out. We'd still have max room, with or without Lin(opting in or on a reasonable extension) and if he opted out we'd still have over $40 mill.

[vincecarter4pres]

We are meeting with porter today....

im scared a max offer is imminent now. kings made a max offer, so if we didnt call off ouir meeting it probably means we are making him a max offer as well.

we still have 2 outs... he could accept the kings offer over ours or the wizards could match.

nervous. ive been trying to talk myself into porter and it makes more sense after the russell trade but deep down i know thats an awful long term deal and once our young guys are due extensions its going to create some real complications.

I'll be good with it either way. He'll absolutely be offered max. If he accepts it, that's great. It shows a highly coveted good young player wants to be here, even if just for ultimate leverage. If he accepts and Washington matches, there is nothing else we could have done.

I get that you think he instantly becomes an awful contract, but again, unless he falls into an absolute abyss, he has future trade value, at least neutral. Markinson wouldn't even know it wasn't working out for sure until at least deep into year 2. That puts you in the summer between year 2 and 3 to deal him, when he only has 2 years remaining, the last likely an ETO. It wouldn't be hard to deal him at that point for a rarer player for player swap, or just pure cap if needed for another signing, or an expiring and middling pick or young player with 2+ seasons of remaining rookie salary.

The only way he becomes an absolute albatross and negative value is if he all of a sudden reverts back to 2nd year type play. Looking completely lost and unproductive, inefficient and scrubby.

Even if he levels off as a 14/5/2/1/0.5 kind of guy on solid but not spectacular efficiency, he'll still be a guy other teams will at least be interested in, in a salary dump kind of deal, we've seen it time and again, like a younger Rudy Gay, Caron Butler, etc., kind of deal.

[CalamityX12]

I really hope Otto doesn't become the next Outlaw....

[CalamityX12]

next years' draft class isn't that big anyways....

[Prokorov]

You also have to realize that the owner isn't going to kill his GM's leverage by saying they need to dump salary either so take that with a grain of salt.

masai already has all the leverage... he signed all his guys already. at this point its just a tax move and tax isnt calculated until seasons end. he can wait until the deadline if he needs to. owners typically dont say they will pay the tax then not do it if it comes to it... fans turn quickly on that. and toronto is all about their fans.

Masai will almost for sure get a fair deal or good value.

2018 protected first + a 2nd or prospect from saikim/bruno/nogiera + a second seems likely

On other hand, b/c they signed on with Lowry/Ibaka/DeRozan - this is a win now roster. And they know theyre not winning anything with current supporting cast - but I agree with everyone. Masai would be. Brutal guy to negotiate against ... I would look to Denver instead

it doesnt matter if they dump carroll or not roster wise. they would go from the tax player MLE to the non tax payer MLE but either way the MLE would be all they have to offer to improve their team... and id assume they wouldnt use it because that would put them back into the tax anyhow.

[Papi_swav]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Naaa I would be 100% down with getting Green especially for just 10-15 million, he is the prototypical 4 that we need on this team. He can defend multiple positions and can shoot the 3. But I think we should look at getting Darrel Arthur since he won't be as expensive and he doesn't need to play 30 minutes a game, if we can get him with a pick I would be happy with this off season. Faried is just a rebounder/hustle player to me, doesn't do enough and he would want minutes.

[Papi_swav]

I really hope Otto doesn't become the next Outlaw....

I highly doubt that, Outlaw was trash even before we gave him the contract IMO, he just had a breakout season. He wasn't able to play the defense like Porter could and I doubt he was a 43% 3 point shooter.

[Papi_swav]

Give me Darrel Arthur, he shot 45% on 3s and took 3 per game, he can be a stretch 4. Decent passer and defender as well.

Yeah, all things equal with the pick and stuff, I take Arthur over Faried any day of the week, especially with our roster.

I've always liked Arthur and felt he's been underrated and goes way beyond his paltry stats. I don't think he can play huge minutes, that may have always been his downfall, but for us that's perfect, still allows RHJ to see plenty of time, no matter which one starts and they can play alongside each other deeper into games.

Arthur and a 1st for cap space would be a major coup for this off-season. The problem is it seems like Denver wants a team to take on both of those guys for a pick. Tbh, it's unreasonable, but not that unreasonable. Both are flawed but solid, average type rotation players. As it stands right now they have about $13 million in cap space. To sign Hill they probably need about $22 million minimum for a 4 year deal, or they're looking to give him similar to Millsap over 3 seasons, so they need about another $15 million.

I still don't see them being all that great next year, especially how stacked the West is. They may very well miss the playoffs again. If the pick is something like only top 2 protected this season, then maybe it goes up to top 5 or 6 protection, but eventually becoming unprotected, it's so-so value. If Marks somehow gets a 2nd 1st out of it, then it's gravy.

Denver's draft moves are just that much more confusing though. Move out of a spot to take a small forward or guard, at lower cap hit then the extra salary they traded for added to the mid-20's pick and then selected another power forward, as was the guy they got in the trade.

I agree with everything but I think Denver is definitely a playoff team now, especially if they add George Hill. Jokic is arguably a top 10-15 player of the league and Milsap fits like a glove on that team, couldn't be more happier for them.

[Owen_Bart]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Ehh.. I think you have to add in the consideration that no player that is just coming out of their RFA contract will sign with us. They have no relation with our group of guys being that our guys are came from D-League or pretty new in the NBA. It's like going to party, You'd want atleast one person you are boys with to go that party. There are two ways those type of players that will come here A) They want to be a Brooklyn Net (Highly unlikely) or B) Marks and KA have a good rapport with them (most likely only a handful of players).

I'm fine with the idea of getting Green because he adds in a big need. You really can't count him out without development. Who knows his gritty, tough nature could get him to a next level of play.

Yeah, Green is the only guy I as a fan would personally approve of.

If we do add Green, I hope the buck stops there. Booker and Hamilton come off the cap next year. Lin might opt out. We'd still have max room, with or without Lin(opting in or on a reasonable extension) and if he opted out we'd still have over $40 mill.

Agree with Green, it makes sense for there to be a smooth transition with Booker leaving next offseason and Green taking the majority of his minutes.

[vincecarter4pres]

I think unless a simple unlikely deal emerges for Toronto, like dumping Carroll without any huge incentive added, they are in no rush to make a move. They have until the deadline to get out of tax territory, so they can wait and evaluate.

Denver on the other hand is dealing from desperation. I think it takes a lightly protected 1st and a guy like Lyles to dump Faried for pure cap.

They can dump Arthur, but that doesn't open the cap they need, even including renouncing Plums and Gallo.

Maybe they can find a team to take on Faried attaching Mudiay to him, even adding Beasley or Lyles.

Maaaaaybe, they get a team to take Barton for cap and another team to take Arthur with only small incentive, though that still leaves a Hill offer a little light.

[Prokorov]

next years' draft class isn't that big anyways....

I would disagree. next years crop of both UFA/RFA are better and deeper. here are just the main guys

UFA:
Lebron
George
Carmello* can opt out
Paul* can opt out
Wade
Cousins
Lopez
Isiah Thomas
Avery Bradley
Greg monroe
Derrick Favors
Lou Williams
Robert Covington


for RFA:

Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Smart
Randle
Jokic
Gary Garris

[vincecarter4pres]

Give me Darrel Arthur, he shot 45% on 3s and took 3 per game, he can be a stretch 4. Decent passer and defender as well.

Yeah, all things equal with the pick and stuff, I take Arthur over Faried any day of the week, especially with our roster.

I've always liked Arthur and felt he's been underrated and goes way beyond his paltry stats. I don't think he can play huge minutes, that may have always been his downfall, but for us that's perfect, still allows RHJ to see plenty of time, no matter which one starts and they can play alongside each other deeper into games.

Arthur and a 1st for cap space would be a major coup for this off-season. The problem is it seems like Denver wants a team to take on both of those guys for a pick. Tbh, it's unreasonable, but not that unreasonable. Both are flawed but solid, average type rotation players. As it stands right now they have about $13 million in cap space. To sign Hill they probably need about $22 million minimum for a 4 year deal, or they're looking to give him similar to Millsap over 3 seasons, so they need about another $15 million.

I still don't see them being all that great next year, especially how stacked the West is. They may very well miss the playoffs again. If the pick is something like only top 2 protected this season, then maybe it goes up to top 5 or 6 protection, but eventually becoming unprotected, it's so-so value. If Marks somehow gets a 2nd 1st out of it, then it's gravy.

Denver's draft moves are just that much more confusing though. Move out of a spot to take a small forward or guard, at lower cap hit then the extra salary they traded for added to the mid-20's pick and then selected another power forward, as was the guy they got in the trade.

I agree with everything but I think Denver is definitely a playoff team now, especially if they add George Hill. Jokic is arguably a top 10-15 player of the league and Milsap fits like a glove on that team, couldn't be more happier for them.

Yeah true. I was just looking at all the West teams on paper about 20 minutes ago and after adding Hill they should be a lock for the playoffs with a relatively high seeding ceiling.

As top heavy star-wise as the West has become this summer and last season, there's some true garbage and suspect half rosters outside the top 5 or 6 teams. Barring a ton of injuries Denver should be really good, especially adding Hill.

[Prokorov]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Nobody is signing here unless we add some better players to this year's rosters to entice other free agents in 2018, 2019. That's the whole point.

Mozgov, Nicholson are going to be more attractive contracts in 2 seasons. Less time than the duration of the aforementioned free agent contracts.


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guys will sign with us this year but they wouldnt next year or in 2019? what sense does that make?

[Prokorov]

Also.... i want no part of Jaymichael Green, Hardaway Jr, Mirotic, or Simmons on 10-15 million deals.

Those guys are all role players and a colection of them in the 10-15 million range doesnt help us. We would be MUCH better off keeping cap space til next season to go after better players.

Just like we are in a better spot in free agency now then last year we will be in a better spot next year then this year.

Salary dumps
Minimum deals

roll with what we got.

Ehh.. I think you have to add in the consideration that no player that is just coming out of their RFA contract will sign with us. They have no relation with our group of guys being that our guys are came from D-League or pretty new in the NBA. It's like going to party, You'd want atleast one person you are boys with to go that party. There are two ways those type of players that will come here A) They want to be a Brooklyn Net (Highly unlikely) or B) Marks and KA have a good rapport with them (most likely only a handful of players).

I'm fine with the idea of getting Green because he adds in a big need. You really can't count him out without development. Who knows his gritty, tough nature could get him to a next level of play.

thats great. but after we extend our guys we will be capped out and unless green becomes a star we would be locked into the core fo a 35ish win team

[Prokorov]

We are meeting with porter today....

im scared a max offer is imminent now. kings made a max offer, so if we didnt call off ouir meeting it probably means we are making him a max offer as well.

we still have 2 outs... he could accept the kings offer over ours or the wizards could match.

nervous. ive been trying to talk myself into porter and it makes more sense after the russell trade but deep down i know thats an awful long term deal and once our young guys are due extensions its going to create some real complications.

I'll be good with it either way. He'll absolutely be offered max. If he accepts it, that's great. It shows a highly coveted good young player wants to be here, even if just for ultimate leverage. If he accepts and Washington matches, there is nothing else we could have done.

I get that you think he instantly becomes an awful contract, but again, unless he falls into an absolute abyss, he has future trade value, at least neutral. Markinson wouldn't even know it wasn't working out for sure until at least deep into year 2. That puts you in the summer between year 2 and 3 to deal him, when he only has 2 years remaining, the last likely an ETO. It wouldn't be hard to deal him at that point for a rarer player for player swap, or just pure cap if needed for another signing, or an expiring and middling pick or young player with 2+ seasons of remaining rookie salary.

The only way he becomes an absolute albatross and negative value is if he all of a sudden reverts back to 2nd year type play. Looking completely lost and unproductive, inefficient and scrubby.

Even if he levels off as a 14/5/2/1/0.5 kind of guy on solid but not spectacular efficiency, he'll still be a guy other teams will at least be interested in, in a salary dump kind of deal, we've seen it time and again, like a younger Rudy Gay, Caron Butler, etc., kind of deal.

thats the same kind of thing we could have said about crabbe last year, and now you need a pick attached to move him.

and porter will be making 8 million more then crabbe got.

if he turns into an allstar great. if not its going to hurt us. we need him to be better then harrison barnes for it to work out for us long term and im nto confident that will happen