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With the sixers kings trade and a hole in the Center Position in Philly im starting to believe the Sixers are taking either Favors or Cousins which would leave us with Turner

Draft Turner and Sign Stoudemire David Lee amazing off-season

Not getting my hopes up yet but this could potentialy be the best thing that’s ever happened to this franchise.
As much as Favors has some nice upside getting Turner would be a flipin steal for us, not only is he the clear cut 2nd best player in the draft and the most NBA ready, he also fills a need that’s gonna be much harder to fill in FA, in this year’s FA class its gonna be much easier finding a PF than a SG.
Just look at this team and tell me we wont make the playoffs and improve every year.

Harris/ Twill
Turner/ Clee
Twill/ CDR
Amare or Dlee/Yi
Lopez/Yi

Will Favors be a fantastic player one day? sure. but this core can be fliptasticly good.
But again not getting my hopes up LOL!

That could very well be the worst shooting team in the history of the NBA.

I have this feeling...
Philly takes Favors at #2, then trades Thad Young and Speights for the 8th overall pick, drafts Paul George or Xavier Henry and puts Iggy back at his proper position of small forward...

Personally, I'd prefer Favors to turner, but I won't lose any sleep if we ended up with Turner instead. Of course that would necessitate us upgrading our long range shooting from the SF spot, and landing one of the overpriced PFs on the market.

I posted this in the other thread. I dont think this trade helps Philly to take Favors or Cousins. Favors or Cousins workout help Philly to decide to take one of them. They have to love one of these guys to do that. And if so...they could come to us a flip of picks and ask us for something extra. They know Turner is the 2nd best player. If they opt not to take him, but actually rank someone ahead of him...why not look for something from us and still get the guy you want.

To be clear, if they want Turner...there is nothing we can do for them to sway them. I am only talking about them getting their top choice plus interest if its anyone other than Turner.

As for that team listed above...look...here is no mystery here. Nets are going after Lebron. They will draft the best player on the board, if that's a big so be it. Regardless of how many bigs are out there in free agency....they wil stick to that and its what they should do. Not draft for need or expected need, just best talent. if they end up with a big man free agent draft a big man, so what.

Turner is the player you want to have because he is the best prospect after Wall. The fact that his position is one we arent likely to fill in free agency would just be a bonus.

Ed Stefaneski is still the Thorn's Assistant GM!

Seriously, this could be big for New Jersey. I think that both Cousins and Favors are high-ceiling prospects, but Turner is clearly a notch above, both in terms of impact and "safeness". The Sixers must know that we have too many SG/SF prospects already to want to pay a premium for the right to move up from 3 to 2; so if they want Favors, they'd better take him at 2.

[bingcrosbyvoice]"It's beginning to look alot like Christmas..."[/bingcrosbyvoice]

I originally wanted Turner no matter what if the Nets missed out on John Wall but now... I'm not so sure.

Turner, Favors, Cousins... It's all so close.

I think people are really overreacting to this trade in terms of it's impact on Evan Turner and pick #2.

Philly was a team that was absolutely dreadful shooting for the outside (bottom 10 in 3pt % and 3pt made). Nocioni for all his flaws is a 38% 3-point shooter and made 1.3 per game, both would have led the 76ers last year.

While his contract sucks, he is that type of 3/4 hybrid that makes it easier to trade a guy like Thaddeous Young for either another outside shooter (though they are a bit crowded on the wings if they draft Turner) or a young shot-blocker. I could see a win-now team trading a pick in the mid-teens for Young allowing Philly to fill that young shot-blocker needs with a guy like Whiteside.

I'm personally not a big fan of Hawes, but he can at least be a rotational big and is just 22. Plus they save $3 million this year when they are up against the tax.

I don't think it's a great trade for Philly since I'm not a fan of Hawes and Noc's contract sucks and I think another move is coming. I just don't think it's some earth-shattering move such as Favors over Turner.

mikhailjordan wrote:I originally wanted Turner no matter what if the Nets missed out on John Wall but now... I'm not so sure.

Turner, Favors, Cousins... It's all so close.

Its become nerve racking. What if Favors really is the necxt Dwight Howard????

I wont regret Cousins even if he is all that and we dont take him. Low in the draft and you want to take chances on the Sean Williams or Marcus Williams of the world that others are red flagging...fine. But top 3 pick and you have really good options? let someone else get a steal or a bust pick. Play it safe. Take a guy you feel absolutely will give you some quality in this league.

Turner and Favors to me are both players like that. I dont see bust in either guy on the downside.

Now if Cousins wows our guys...and they go that way...fine. Hope they are right. But if turns out to be a problem child...to me..jobs on the line fellas.

deviljets7 wrote:I think people are really overreacting to this trade in terms of it's impact on Evan Turner and pick #2.

Philly was a team that was absolutely dreadful shooting for the outside (bottom 10 in 3pt % and 3pt made). Nocioni for all his flaws is a 38% 3-point shooter and made 1.3 per game, both would have led the 76ers last year.

While his contract sucks, he is that type of 3/4 hybrid that makes it easier to trade a guy like Thaddeous Young for either another outside shooter (though they are a bit crowded on the wings if they draft Turner) or a young shot-blocker. I could see a win-now team trading a pick in the mid-teens for Young allowing Philly to fill that young shot-blocker needs with a guy like Whiteside.

I'm personally not a big fan of Hawes, but he can at least be a rotational big and is just 22. Plus they save $3 million this year when they are up against the tax.

I don't think it's a great trade for Philly since I'm not a fan of Hawes and Noc's contract sucks and I think another move is coming. I just don't think it's some earth-shattering move such as Favors over Turner.

I agree. It feels like this could be one trade, setting up another. Detroit? Another Sac deal on draft day? Minny? A lot of options. End of day hard to believe Philly wont take Turner or get serious interest NOT to end up with him.

The kid is the consensus #2 pick. Hard to just say...nah we sucked nuts last year...but lets draft for position need on a team that would be fine dumping half its players under contract.

I will say it again. The only way i see philly taking and keeping someone else at #2 is if they actually LIKE that guy better after workouts. If they absolutely say..wow this is our guy and he wont be there if we trade down to 4, 5, 6 or 7...screw the board this is what we are doing. it wont be for fit. Just my opinion.

enetric wrote:But top 3 pick and you have really good options? let someone else get a steal or a bust pick. Play it safe. Take a guy you feel absolutely will give you some quality in this league.

Turner and Favors to me are both players like that.

See, this is where you and I totally disagree. It is unfathomable to me that you think Turner and Favors are on the same level of bust-ability. The fact that Derick Favors has been playing basketball alot longer than other bigmen in this draft (like, say, Cousins), and yet doesn't have an advanced skill set doesn't even hint at bust to you? Nor the fact that he literally disappeared in every big game against an NBA-caliber frontcourt opponent? Check the box scores, he's a lion against the Quinnipiacs of the world, a lamb against the powerhouses.

ecuhus1981 wrote:

enetric wrote:But top 3 pick and you have really good options? let someone else get a steal or a bust pick. Play it safe. Take a guy you feel absolutely will give you some quality in this league.

Turner and Favors to me are both players like that.

See, this is where you and I totally disagree. It is unfathomable to me that you think Turner and Favors are on the same level of bust-ability. The fact that Derick Favors has been playing basketball alot longer than other bigmen in this draft (like, say, Cousins), and yet doesn't have an advanced skill set doesn't even hint at bust to you? Nor the fact that he literally disappeared in every big game against an NBA-caliber frontcourt opponent? Check the box scores, he's a lion against the Quinnipiacs of the world, a lamb against the powerhouses.

First off...Favors is the youngest player in the draft...so playing longer?

Next, the accounts of most scouts...GT turned out to be a bad system for this kid. So I wouldnt put much into NCAA box scores to try and figure out what type of pro he will be. None of the scouts are...so why would you? its a bad way of determing talent translating to the NBA. Many a big box score college kid was a coplete wash out BUST in the NBA.

As for the skill set thing...the NBA is loaded with guys who are game changers but lacking in skill set. We took one once with the first overall pick. Kenyon Martin. Who I'm sorry...had NO moves whatsoever when he came into this league. he was rough and tumble...hard nose...hustle type guy. These guys have value in this league. i am still struggling to find legit offensive game from Dwight Howard. he scores...but do you really find him to be as polished as his athleticism???


So my atitude is...if we get a Kmart, or a Horford who do the dirty work..I will be happy. If we get more even better. Unless of course you think every scout out there is just crocked. then...by all means. Go off college box scores.

enetric wrote:First off...Favors is the youngest player in the draft...so playing longer?

Next, the accounts of most scouts...GT turned out to be a bad system for this kid. So I wouldnt put much into NCAA box scores to try and figure out what type of pro he will be. None of the scouts are...so why would you? its a bad way of determing talent translating to the NBA. Many a big box score college kid was a coplete wash out BUST in the NBA.

As for the skill set thing...the NBA is loaded with guys who are game changers but lacking in skill set. We took one once with the first overall pick. Kenyon Martin. Who I'm sorry...had NO moves whatsoever when he came into this league. he was rough and tumble...hard nose...hustle type guy. These guys have value in this league. i am still struggling to find legit offensive game from Dwight Howard. he scores...but do you really find him to be as polished as his athleticism???


So my atitude is...if we get a Kmart, or a Horford who do the dirty work..I will be happy. If we get more even better. Unless of course you think every scout out there is just crocked. then...by all means. Go off college box scores.

Cousins played football until the 9th grade, when he literally outgrew the tight end position. He switched over to basketball, and despite interviews where he says he sucked at first, managed to average 26/15/10. Derrick has been playing the game all of his life.

K-Mart has a sweet spot in most Nets fans hearts, but if you look at things objectively, he's in the bottom 1/4 of all-time #1 picks. It was a weak year; most draftniks would agree it was the weakest of this decade. This draft class, in sharp contrast, has all the earkmarks to be as good as if not better than '03, or even '84 (boom, I said it). Don't settle; this draft has so much more to offer in the top 4 picks than a Kenyon Martin. As is often told of franchises in our position: "playing it safe is about the most dangerous thing you could do."

BTW, counter-intuition doesn't suit you well. Are we supposed to DOWNGRADE prospects that statistically outperform their peers???

Of course, this thread really isn't about the Cousins/Favors debate. I will be most pleased if Turner falls to us, and despite my gut feeling that DeMarcus will be an extraordinary bigman in all facets of the game, Turner could be the MJ of this draft, and wost-case scenario comes with much less risk than either DC or Favors.

1-Seriously? So Cousins started playing hoops at 14 and he is a year older. Favors started playing basketball at 10 and 10-14 is what you are making a thing about? Come on now. All his life????

2- Yes, Kmart was a horrible #1 overall pick. But, had he not gotten hurt...are you going to tell me he wasnt a major piece to us being a winning team? Guys who do the dirty work make a huge difference is my point. See Marion the Suns years. Kmart the Nets years, or Horford what he has done for the Hawks. if you can come away at #3 with a talent like that? Nothing wrong with that. And when the kids measurements, weghtlifting and results in the drills come out in line with...Dwight Howard at the same age...is it possible in a year that the youngest kid in the draft who is still growing could become a beast? I will say again, Europe is littered with guys who know how to play basketball but werent athletic enough to make it in the NBA.

3- My stats point that i think you missed, was...why would you value the relevance of NCAA stats more than what scouts are saying or the sheer athletic difference in the two guys? Your stat based thinking from college to how it applies to the pros has been absolute fools gold. Why dont you give me Bo Kimble's NCAA stats or Chris Corchiani's and tell me why they should have been #1 overall picks. Despite the fact that scouting has gotten pretty damn good in recent years you think..hey screw it...lets just look at stats from college and apply them and BOOM that's the guy. You know what? You are right, screw it. You convinced me. Someone go punch Phil Jackson in the nuts for leaving Adam Morrison in street clothes. Doesnt he know about the 28 points per game he averaged his last year of college????? And the Magic....how could they take the raw clay that was Dwight Howard over college STUD Okafor???? Tyler Hansbrough! Why did everyone sleep on you? I mean I thought he went too low...but now you have made the case that he is the next Shaq.

4- Close to 1984 or 2003????? BASED ON WHAT???? Yes there are some decent prospects up top...but have you read a report ANYWHERE that says...this is a STRONG draft? A GREAT draft? And you are comparing it to a draft with Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Melo, before we get to a bunch of very solid guys? Wow! You should write Draft Express one nasty letter for them saying Wall's NBA comarison upside is Russell Westbrook with better court vision. NBA draft calls that same consensus #1 pick...Westbrook or Rose. Turner gets Roy. Favors gets McDyess and Horford on these two sites, Cousins gets Al Jeff as the upside on one site...Curry or Benoit Benjamin on the other. But the downside of Draft express is Dampier or Derrick Coleman...so I would take that one with a grain of salt since DC had a better career than Al Jeff has so far. But Dampier and Benoit Benajamin? YIKES!

I am soooooo glad you see it differently. Thank GOD! I mean now I am excited. We cant miss since you have an insight to this draft class no one else seems to. What do we have to worry about? We'll be getting a futre HOF guy in this draft. AWESOME!!!

As for Turner? I love Turner. But I love him more like a Wade not Jordan. But if I have no problems arguing Kobe isnt Jordan...cant believe I just heard Turner is your Jordan comparison.

Look, I am slamming you right now hard. And that post? You deserve it. You made some pretty outrageous statements, and I will tip my hat if we look back and some how these guys are all future HOF guys. But what I want to pass on to you is this.

Every single year someone falls in love with the new crop of college talent. Every single year. But your analysis may in fact be the most extreme over the top reaction to the Christmas morning that is draft day I have ever seen.

Thinking Cousins could achieve what he is capable of is one thing. No problem. But being completely unconcerned about him failing to get down court in HS and in college on a regular basis, or not being fazed that he was told at 270 pounds...you need to lose weight...only to go to Kentucky and add 26 pounds of fat? I mean the kid flat out refused to lift weights...so it aint muscle right?

He has talent. But to say extrodinary big man in all facets of the game???? Why is it that not one team is saying that? Many like his talent...but why is a guy THAT good not the consesus #1 pick???? #2? Why is it possible that even after his great Kings workout they could let him slide on by? That he could slide to #7? I mean hey they could all be wrong. No doubt. it happens sometimes. But its not like he is being overlooked like a a Rondo. This guy is coming from the most followed progrsm in the country this season. Eveyone has seen him 100's of times. He is flat out being questioned as fat, lazy, and not coachable. And that doesnt concern you in the least? Or rather, give you pause that just maybe you are going way out on a limb?

ecuhus1981 wrote:

enetric wrote:But top 3 pick and you have really good options? let someone else get a steal or a bust pick. Play it safe. Take a guy you feel absolutely will give you some quality in this league.

Turner and Favors to me are both players like that.

See, this is where you and I totally disagree. It is unfathomable to me that you think Turner and Favors are on the same level of bust-ability. The fact that Derick Favors has been playing basketball alot longer than other bigmen in this draft (like, say, Cousins), and yet doesn't have an advanced skill set doesn't even hint at bust to you? Nor the fact that he literally disappeared in every big game against an NBA-caliber frontcourt opponent? Check the box scores, he's a lion against the Quinnipiacs of the world, a lamb against the powerhouses.

BTW....you shouldnt make stuff up. its not hard to prove that one wrong. and at the Combine when they broke down Favors...they said specifically...what impressed people was that it seemed like he improved week by week to the scouts that followed him.

He obviously didnt get enough touches at GT...but he had plenty of good games against good team late in the year.

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/favors_derrick00.html

Harris2Lopez wrote:With the sixers kings trade and a hole in the Center Position in Philly im starting to believe the Sixers are taking either Favors or Cousins which would leave us with Turner

Draft Turner and Sign Stoudemire David Lee amazing off-season

Am I missing something here? Isn't Hawes a 4/5?

No its just that Hawes still hsant bloomed and they added yet another SF that has people specualting. No one knows. You make a good case either way for why they would lean this way or that way. I dont think Philly is locked in yet.

enetric wrote:BTW....you shouldnt make stuff up. its not hard to prove that one wrong.

Oh, really? You haven't yet.

I'll ask it again: name one NBA-caliber bigman that Derrick played against at Georgia Tech, and dominated. Ed Davis doesn't count; he was injured for both UNC-GT games. The closest you can say is his 8-point, 12-rebound, 4-block, 4-turnover game against Solomon Alabi and FSU. Scouts keep trying to turn a blind eye to Favors' inability to dominate, saying it was his teammates and coach who didn't utilize him properly. I'll give you that Hewitt is a moron; but if you ask most G-Tech fans, they'll tell you that his decently talented backcourt tried to feed him the ball, but he didn't want it.

As for this "improvement every two weeks" idea, you can thank Rod Thorn for that. He was first quoted with this sort of statement, and I've seen dozens of outlets parrot this sort of talk without any substance behind it. If Philly, where Rod's former assistant Ed Stefaneski presides, takes Favors, than I will really thank Thorn.

Cousins had big games in almost every big matchup, and although he dominated when the rest of his team need it from him, he was willing to play a much smaller role on the Wildcats. THAT speaks more to his character than some of the outbursts we've seen and heard about. The biggest endorsement may have come from Avery. In a tweet from CNN/SI reporter Chris Mannix, after speaking with Johnson: "...sounds like (Avery) is high on Cousins". If there were any sort of deep-seeded motivational issues with DC, AJ would have snuffed them out.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, though. You will see what you want to see. All of this is moot, if we pick Evan Turner. I think we can at least agree that that would be a big "get" for the Nets.

I heard guys say that before Rod. I heard it discussed at Chicago. many were impressed with him...it was aparentyl a scout driven comment.,,,his improvement.

I wish Cousins all the best. I am honestly, tired of having to give all the reasons why I would prefer not to take him. Why I wont be steamed if he goes elsewhere and he achieves all his upside. I wont be. His red flag as numerous enough that I would stay away this high in th draft with good options. I mean I dont think this draft is anywhere the caliber of what you think it is...but including Monroe...6 decent talents in this draft.

I do think you are severely hung up on college match ups...and stats. these things often do not translate to the NBA. See the short list of big college names i gave you and could give you many more. There are reasons scouts see Favors translating well to the NBA....and I happen to see some god stuff there. Do I think he is a slam dunk? No.

Will this guy who routinely doesnt run back down court once he is winded be able to convince any coach in the NBA to leave him on the floor if he does that?
Wil he be able to push NBA athletes the best in the world around the same way he does these supposed elite future back up big men...or future big men bound for China? We'll see.

And, that character comment? No...willing to play less than does not say more than...doesnt listen to coaching, and lazy work habits...sorry but it really doesnt. Those are HUGE rips. And how do you walk into the combine where you already arent participating in the head to head drills...and refuse to do the bench press after you weighed in with the 12th worst body fat% in the history of te combines...26 pounds heavier than you were a year earlier when scouts told you...need to lose weight...and you say, "I dont like to lift weights".

These are character issues. I honeslty could deal more with...got into a fist fight off the court...lost his temper...OK maturity. But doesnt want to listen, got fatter at an elite program...just doenst speak like someone who will do what he needs to do to be great. To me to make a stats based argument in a completely different league...not a good way to go.

As for the Maqnnix thing...to me that is bush type reporting. Its like...Bosh says he is highly interested in thr Knicks with or without Lebron. its a headline that was scripted off asking Bosh a question that required him to be polite and not rock the boat. it ws spsecifc to the Knicks. they didnt say...so would you rule out any of these 10 teams if Lebron wont go there? he would have said the same thing. Listen to that interview. Its a canned prepared response.

So someone says to Avery...WHAT DO YOU THINK OF Cousins? And Avery compliments him. So what. I have heard Avery go out on a limb as of yet for this guy or that. I am not putting a lot of stock into it.

Like I said...I am tired of the whole thing at this stage. I really do trust Rod here. Absolutely hope he makes the final call, and if its Cousins at #3....without trading down, then I will have to believe Cousins did enough to bring them around. But make no mistake. No matter how much you personally love Cousins...its all on him to prove himself. of all the top prospects no ones stock has dropped more accross the board. And its not like its due to an injury like Granger had with the knee. He is healthy and yet DE and NBAdraft have him 6th and 7th in recent days.

If he is going to change minds he has a week to do it. And if is refusing Minny's workout...that leaves Philly and us.

We do agree on Turner. But wont it be a bitch if we get him...and magically the scouts who like the raw Favors so much...the way they liked a young Dwight Howard over a college superstar in Okafor were right?

I think that is why I am so tired of it and ready to just get it going. Favors, Turner, Cousins...come on. Trust Rod...get th best guy they see up close and be done with it.