RealGM

I know this kind of thread can go on the Player Comparisons or General Boards, but I wanted to post this here, on our board to see where all of us are at.
I also thought this would be a nice thread to keep track of who's fallen off over the course of the year, whether do to injury, decline or poor play and who's on the rise.

This is for your current rankings going into the season, not who you think will be the best in 2 years because of their potential.

So anyway, mine would go..

1. Lebron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dwight Howard
5. Chris Paul
6. Kevin Durant
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Pau Gasol
9. Deron Williams
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Tim Duncan
12. Brandon Roy
13. Steve Nash
14. Chris Bosh
15. Amar'e Stoudamire
16. Rajon Rondo
17. Carlos Boozer
18. Derrick Rose
19. Manu Ginobili
20. Danny Granger

Honorable Mentions(basically 21 and 22): Andrew Bogut, Paul Pierce

Who you got?

Need some time to think it over, but at first glance Boozer and Manu seem way too high. Might be overly harsh due to health issues though.

BUCKLE UP FOR KOBEEE BRYANT.

I'll get on this later...

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Howard
5. Durant
6. Cp3
7. Deron
8. Carmelo
9. Nowitski
10.Roy
11.Duncan
12.Bosh
13.Billups
14.Stoudamire
15.Gasol
16.Johnson
17. Yao
18.Garnett
19.Nash
20.Rose

Have to look cloely...but at first glance there seems to be quite a bit of overrated guys. Dwight Howard to me as impressive as he is rebounding and shot blocking wise...his offensive game regardless of points is still ugly. I often find his celebrity has him overrated with younger fans these days.

Other guys I found overrated on your list at first glance VC...

Roy ( I know you love him but he took a crap last year has to get knocked down a bit for now.)

Rondo....great fantasy player who does as many awful things on the court as he does good things. Truly one of the 5 lowest basketball IQ's of all starring PG's in the NBA. No 3 point shot, and to shoot ft's like D12 from the point...not acceptable.

Rose....Doesnt make good decisions with the ball. Not a pass first PG. So far...he is a scorer who cannot shoot...which I hate for PG's (See Rondo). I think people are enamored more that he is a big name coming out, and can score. So far...not overwhelmed by him.

HAving said all of this...need to look closely at who I like more.

1. Lebron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dwight Howard
5. Chris Paul
6. Kevin Durant
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Yao Ming (when healthy of course)
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Deron Williams
11. Tim Duncan
12. Steve Nash
13. Brandon Roy
14. Pau Gasol
15. Chris Bosh
16. Amar'e Stoudamire
17. Andrew Bogut
18. Paul Pierce
19. Derrick Rose
20. Carlos Boozer

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5. Dwight
6. Melo
7. Deron
8. Durant
9. CP3
10. Nash
11. Gasol
12. Rondo
13. Garnett
14. Stoudamire
15. Yao
16. Duncan
17. Bosh
18. Johnson
19. Ellis
20. Tyreke
21. Samboy Lim

enetric wrote:Have to look cloely...but at first glance there seems to be quite a bit of overrated guys. Dwight Howard to me as impressive as he is rebounding and shot blocking wise...his offensive game regardless of points is still ugly. I often find his celebrity has him overrated with younger fans these days.

Other guys I found overrated on your list at first glance VC...

Roy ( I know you love him but he took a crap last year has to get knocked down a bit for now.)

Rondo....great fantasy player who does as many awful things on the court as he does good things. Truly one of the 5 lowest basketball IQ's of all starring PG's in the NBA. No 3 point shot, and to shoot ft's like D12 from the point...not acceptable.

Rose....Doesnt make good decisions with the ball. Not a pass first PG. So far...he is a scorer who cannot shoot...which I hate for PG's (See Rondo). I think people are enamored more that he is a big name coming out, and can score. So far...not overwhelmed by him.

HAving said all of this...need to look closely at who I like more.

I agree on both Rondo and Rose as far as them being overrated...but w/ Rondo he gambles too much...trys to make the big plays, but I disagree that his basketball IQ is low...maybe it has to do with poor decision making with the ball...But I do really like Rondo, as you said, even though I think his shot has improved, he's still not a good shooter and Rose is definitely more of scorer than a PG...I think Devin CAN be a better "pass first" pg (than Rose) if he chose to do so or if we needed him to...and Rose's shot is definitely better than Rondo...

I know Nash got a lot done last year for his age...u gotta love him, a warrior who can will his team to win...but he's too high for my taste on some of the top 20s here, but definitely deserves the respect...

Two posters on the other site are telling me Zach Randolph is a better player then Bosh!
They are very serious.
Discuss.

Zach Randolph is a talented player.. Great low post scorer and he's a 20, 10 guy.. but he's a black hole. One of the worst passers in the NBA and a terrible decision maker/awful BBIQ. Bosh hasn't done anything memorable in the league, i mean missing the playoffs 5 times in 7 years is absolutely terrible for a top 15 players, but, he's still the better player. He's younger and you don't run the risk of waking up one day and seeing his face on the morning paper for an alleged crime.

jerseyjac wrote:

enetric wrote:Have to look cloely...but at first glance there seems to be quite a bit of overrated guys. Dwight Howard to me as impressive as he is rebounding and shot blocking wise...his offensive game regardless of points is still ugly. I often find his celebrity has him overrated with younger fans these days.

Other guys I found overrated on your list at first glance VC...

Roy ( I know you love him but he took a crap last year has to get knocked down a bit for now.)

Rondo....great fantasy player who does as many awful things on the court as he does good things. Truly one of the 5 lowest basketball IQ's of all starring PG's in the NBA. No 3 point shot, and to shoot ft's like D12 from the point...not acceptable.

Rose....Doesnt make good decisions with the ball. Not a pass first PG. So far...he is a scorer who cannot shoot...which I hate for PG's (See Rondo). I think people are enamored more that he is a big name coming out, and can score. So far...not overwhelmed by him.

Having said all of this...need to look closely at who I like more.

I agree on both Rondo and Rose as far as them being overrated...but w/ Rondo he gambles too much...trys to make the big plays, but I disagree that his basketball IQ is low...maybe it has to do with poor decision making with the ball...But I do really like Rondo, as you said, even though I think his shot has improved, he's still not a good shooter and Rose is definitely more of scorer than a PG...I think Devin CAN be a better "pass first" pg (than Rose) if he chose to do so or if we needed him to...and Rose's shot is definitely better than Rondo...

I know Nash got a lot done last year for his age...u gotta love him, a warrior who can will his team to win...but he's too high for my taste on some of the top 20s here, but definitely deserves the respect...

Ugggh. Rondo gets by on his talent. Seriously. Watch how many horrid decisions he makes. Fast breaks passing when he has the clear lane and passing BACK to a trailer who is forced into an offensive foul. OR driving in the half court into the paint, has the shot and trying to hand the ball in traffic in the paint for a turnover or 3 second violation. Taking chances on D with a lead that are totally unnecessary. I can go on and on. Just a LOW BB IQ....truly one of the 5 worst of all starting PG's In the NBA.

jeff1624 wrote:Zach Randolph is a talented player.. Great low post scorer and he's a 20, 10 guy.. but he's a black hole. One of the worst passers in the NBA and a terrible decision maker/awful BBIQ. Bosh hasn't done anything memorable in the league, i mean missing the playoffs 5 times in 7 years is absolutely terrible for a top 15 players, but, he's still the better player. He's younger and you don't run the risk of waking up one day and seeing his face on the morning paper for an alleged crime.

You know I love it when I see my words comming back out from you guys. Search old posts for one of ZACH is a black hole rants.....the ball goes in...but never comes back out.

Very talented offensive player...good rebounder....Bosh...DESTROYS ZACH as a player. Not close.

enetric wrote:Very talented offensive player...good rebounder....Bosh...DESTROYS ZACH as a player. Not close.

Exactly.
One of these same posters said LMA, David West and Boozer are all better as well.
Boozer is the only one there is even a legitimate argument for IMHO.

From 16-23 feet: Derrick Rose leads all PGs in attempts and makes per game (by far), tied for 5th in FG% at 44.0%. Takes 7 a game, makes 3, the only person with similar volume is Paul with 5 attempts at 45.0% FG%. Nash outpaces all other PGs shooting this shot at 46% accuracy. #5 in this area- all the players he's tied with are not nearly as high volume as he is.

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx? ... 40&mins=25

The guy is one of the best mid range shooters in the game so stop saying he cant shoot. If he improved that much from his rookie year there is no reason not to say he wont be able to improve his 3 point shot this year.

Guy has NO range. He wil magically add a 3 point shot? Lets see it. I am sorry...you are a PG with no 3 point shot, not a pass first PG...shoot a fg% like Rondo. Otherwise...for now...OVERRATED.


Not saying he doesnt have skill. He does. But overall...still overrated.

there is a difference between saying he can't shoot 3's and saying he can't shoot at all thats all i was trying to point out...

Well.....I think you were playing the sematics cards. I think it was clar that I was distingusihing between being a shooter...and being a scorer. I am not fond of SCORER point guards who arent shooters. Being a PG who SCORES is not the same thing as being a SCORER first PG.

A PG runs your offense. He sets the tone. He needs to CREATE easy offense. Just getting your 25 points isnt going to get you the 100 you need him to create for his team. When I see PG's who score as his primary function rather than the thing he does as a result of the teams offense...it irks me. It becomes the very reason fans will overrate that guy. They will see the 25 points...Or in the case of Allen Chuckerson...they will see the 40 on 5-30 shooting...but that is a more extreme case...so I digress.

Rose is good. He is very good. But...his current most developed skill sets...HURT his ability to run the offense. To CREATE for others. He uses his insane speed off the dribble to beat guys to the spot for the mid range score. That's a great skill set to have when you are primarily playing off a low post stud....see Parker off TD. Where your job is...keep the guards from doubling down by attacking the open floor they leave you.

But...when you drive your defender to pakc them tighter and tighter in the half court set...you take your bigs OUT of the offense. TO be fair...he hasnt had a ton of offense from his bigs. Lets see how he does with Boozer. But...my basic point is...You need your guard to create easier shots. To help force mismatches. TO force the D further away...not closer in. I see a need for huge development in his passing or rather playmaking decisions...and again...that need to understand where his drives damn his team to that .500 type team. He is only 2 years in. THe talent is there. But right now...I see a severely overrated player in the minds of fans. Is he desitned to be a true quality PG? Or is he a 2 guard who isnt a SHOOTER.....a spread the floor SHOOTER that will put up lofty stats anyway. Time will tell.

Just my opinion - You can't take anything away from Lebron and in a way I think Wade, Kobe and Bron are all "the best" in their own way...

1. Dwayne Wade (just my opinion, you swap him for kobe on the lakers and see what happens)

2. Kobe Bryant (I got Kobe and Lebron tied, have to go with Kobe in the fourth quarter)

3. Lebron James (most have him listed as #1, i can't argue)

4. Kevin Durant (Just unstoppable, great shooter, has stepped up leadership and defense)

5. Chris Paul (Best PG in the game, could argue for Dwill but Paul's presence changes a game)

6. Dwight Howard (Best C, completely dominant in shotblocking & rebounding, could end up being the best player in the nba in a few years)

7. Yao Ming (Health has been an issue, but IF he was healthy he would dominate)

8. Deron Williams (Solid, consistent, scorer and facilitator)

9. Carmello Anthony (Used to hate his game and decision making, after playing with team usa and aquiring Chauncey Billup Melo elevated his game to a whole other level)

10. Dirk Nowitzki (I'm biased as a mavs fan, lol)

11. Steve Nash (offensively dominant, dictates the way a game is played, TERRIBLE defender.

12. Tim Duncan (Was a lot better in the past, still a respectable and consistent scorer and rebounder, #12 is nothing to scough at)

13. Chris Bosh (I hate Chris Bosh but you can't knock his abillity to face up, knock down the shot, drive to the basket, finish around the rim with dunks and layups. defense needs to improve and he can catapult up to the top 5-7 with a garnett like mentality.

14. Pau Gasol (Solid in every facet of the game, good rebounder, shotblocker, great basketball IQ, passing and decision making, was more athletic in the past)

15. Kevin Garnett (Defensive anchor, intense, motivated, knocks down the midrange with great consistency, can post up, can and will pass the basketball, does what it takes to win, KG was arguably #1 at one point, did win season mvp)

16. Brandon Roy (Solid player, has many skills and utilizes all of them, can take over a game but isn't always a dominant force)

17. Amare Stoudemire (Big man with great scoring abillity. I feel 17 IS too high for him but just can't bring myself to put him ahead of any of the previously listed players)

18. Carlos Boozer (Same thing as Amare)

19. Gerald Wallace (Think he is under-rated, great defender and scorer, very efficient. I think last year he really established himself and am gonna go on a whim and say he is going to be very consistent and dominant this year)

20. Rajon Rondo (Triple double threat, game changer, good defender, great speed, terrible FT shooter, improved midrange shot, still pretty skay jumper)

Honourable Mentions: Could have put Joe Johnson, Derrick Rose, Chauncey Billups, Danny Granger, Devin Harris, J-Kidd, Zach Randolph, Andre Iguodala and Stephen Jackson anywhere from 15 forward. I rate all those players the same... Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans will crack the top 20 this year. Bargnani and Ellis could move up the ranks with improved defense.

I can't put Yao back on any lists like this until he comes back and proves he's healthy.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lebron James
3. D Wade
4. Durant
5. Melo
6. Paul
7. Brandon Roy
8. Dirk
9. D Williams
10. Dwight
11. Nash
12. Duncan
13. Gasol
14. Bosh
15. Tyreke
16. Rose
17. Granger
18. Brook Lopez
19. Rondo
20. Boozer