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who?

Hard to say, it depends on how Favors pans out. As it stands now, though, I really like what Walsh did this summer, regardless of my feelings on the fact that Amar'e is not worth that contract.

To be brutally honest, it's debatable. I don't think either team will be turning heads this year but both will be better than their records last year.

I'm biased and think the Knicks moves have no rhyme or reason to them other than getting name guys. But if getting a name guy this year brings another name guy next year, then who is the fool at that point ya know?

So again, it's debatable. I think we have a more secure long term future. We have solid young guys in every position. We have cap room and the most picks over the next year years. I can understand the Knicks argument being better, but will 100% disagree with whoever thinks that because the logic just doesn't translate into a winning team mentality to me.

Talent wise from top to bottom of the roster...we're better. Asset-wise....we're better. We better lock this thread though before Knick fans show their faces. Debating with them is like talking to a brick wall.

Did you guys forget that the nets only won 12 games last season?? And what did they add this offseason? Derrick favors will be a very good player in the future but he is nowhere near being nba ready. He's too raw at this stage. I know the nets have a young team but just because they're a year older I don't see them doubling their win total. The nets also totally flunked out this offseason and I don't see any elite free agents signing with them any time soon.

The knicks on the other hand got amare, who is the only guy on either team who consistenly draws double teams and has any playoff experience. Gallo and especially Randolph have a ton of potential and are both very young. The knicks' defense has improved considerably by adding turiaf, randolph, mozgov, azubuike and felton and are deep at every position. The knicks also have max room next offseason and you guys have to admit that if carmelo doesn't sign the extension the nuggets he will most probably be a knick next season. Again, I don't see anyone of amare or melo's level signing with the nets any time soon.

I expect the nets to be bottom of the East again with about 20-25 wins. I think the Knicks get 35-40 wins.

Nets have the better future. In 1-2 years Amar'e is going to be the new "immovable" contract everyone LOLs at.

Don't get me wrong Gallo is a nice B level prospect, and Anthony Randolph has a lot of potential but then you look at guys like Toney Douglas and you can't help but laugh (there might not be a player worse at running an offense than Toney Douglas, no joke).

I'm just not confident that the Knicks can string together two respectable offseasons in a row. They're the Knicks afterall...

Sundov wrote:Did you guys forget that the nets only won 12 games last season??

This question is about the future...what does the past have to do with the future? Unless, of course, you're saying that since the Nets won 12 games, it means that our young talent stinks, which just isn't the case and is ignorantly wrong.

And what did they add this offseason?

Quality role players that serve a purpose. The only bad contract is Outlaw, and maybe Petro, but the Morrow signing is gold.

mikhailjordan wrote:Nets have the better future. In 1-2 years Amar'e is going to be the new "immovable" contract everyone LOLs at.

Don't get me wrong Gallo is a nice B level prospect, and Anthony Randolph has a lot of potential but then you look at guys like Toney Douglas and you can't help but laugh (there might not be a player worse at running an offense than Toney Douglas, no joke).

I'm just not confident that the Knicks can string together two respectable offseasons in a row. They're the Knicks afterall...

Toney Douglas is our backup point guard, not a starter. He also had a solid rookie season and is a very good defender. Don't trust my word for it, go look up his stats and reports on how he played last season.

Right now the nets are pretty much devin harris, brook lopez, derrick favors and a bunch of young nobodys. They have cap room but as the offseason shows no elite talent want to sign with the nets.

I'm not confident that the nets can have ONE good offseason. For all that talk about prokhorov bringing in big talent, lebron having a better chance of coming to NJ then NY, carlos boozer etc. the nets came up empty handed. Maybe its the fact that they won 12 games last season or maybe its the city. Its probably both.

I don't expect nets fans to agree with me ofcourse but to dismiss the knicks roster and their future and be happy with 12 win roster that you guys have is ridiculous.

How far in the future are we talking? Also, Nets had a worse offseason. No question. If Knicks didn't sign Amare, the Nets would have given him a similar deal.

I'd say we find out in 2 or 3 years since both rosters are young.

The Nets future is brighter. The Knicks are still hoping they can land a big three through trades and don't have future 1st round picks because they've traded them all. Sure they might be able to make moves and possibly contend now (especially with the talents they've added this offseason), but we have more young talent and more draft picks. Unless our guys don't develops and we pick all busts, we'll be the better team in the future.

Future - please define.

The nets have a brighter future in a sense that in the next 3-5 years, they will look better than the Knicks because they are alot younger. But in this immediate season and perhaps the next 2 seasons, the Knicks will look better than the Nets. However the Knicks could always land young talent by trading off guys like amare, felton, and others in the future. So because I believe the Knicks have stronger and more stable assets vs. the nets more numerous assets, my vote is the Knicks.

namakiri wrote:Future - please define.

The nets have a brighter future in a sense that in the next 3-5 years, they will look better than the Knicks because they are alot younger. But in this immediate season and perhaps the next 2 seasons, the Knicks will look better than the Nets. However the Knicks could always land young talent by trading off guys like amare, felton, and others in the future. So because I believe the Knicks have stronger and more stable assets vs. the nets more numerous assets, my vote is the Knicks.

WHile the Knicks ''land young talents'' dealing Amare in his 30's and felton(really??) we have the most picks in the next 3 years out of any team in the league..

Add that to Favors, Lopez, Twill, Lee, Morrow and James compared to Gallinari, Randolph, Douglas, Rautins and Chandler.. I'd say the Nets edge out the knicks.

I'm not saying we're a better team right now.. because we aren't. But in the next 2-3 years, we will be.

Sundov wrote:Toney Douglas is our backup point guard, not a starter. He also had a solid rookie season and is a very good defender. Don't trust my word for it, go look up his stats and reports on how he played last season.

Right now the nets are pretty much devin harris, brook lopez, derrick favors and a bunch of young nobodys. They have cap room but as the offseason shows no elite talent want to sign with the nets.

I'm not confident that the nets can have ONE good offseason. For all that talk about prokhorov bringing in big talent, lebron having a better chance of coming to NJ then NY, carlos boozer etc. the nets came up empty handed. Maybe its the fact that they won 12 games last season or maybe its the city. Its probably both.

I don't expect nets fans to agree with me ofcourse but to dismiss the knicks roster and their future and be happy with 12 win roster that you guys have is ridiculous.

The Nets didn't come up empty handed they got a new owner which was the principal reason for shedding salary to begin with, and they drafted Derrick Favors who every team in the league would rather have than Amar'e at $100 million over 5 years.

Face the facts the Nets have a long-term plan. The Knicks operate without one.

It also needs to be noted that it was Knicks fans gloating about how Lebron and Bosh were locks to sign in New York (similar to how they're now claiming Paul and Melo are locks to join Amar'e in NY, if the Knicks choose to acquire them), NOT Nets fans claiming they were locks to sign in NJ.

Jersey Generals wrote:Hard to say, it depends on how Favors pans out. As it stands now, though, I really like what Walsh did this summer, regardless of my feelings on the fact that Amar'e is not worth that contract.

Knicks gave up a ton to get what they got this summer. Hard to really "like" what they did when you realize that they never had to deal Jeffries, Hill, 2012 pick, 2011 swap. THey had the room for Amare...although I find it hard to believe he is an upgrade over Lee. Seriously...how is he worth 6mil more for the coming season over Lee...and a hell of a lot more than that over the coming years?

And not that I love Harrington or Nate...burt its not like they were nothing. Felton is easily in the bottom 10 of starting PG's in this league. Harrington staight up...a better player...althogh I do recognize the need they had for a PG more. Honestly...their best acquistion was Randolph who I like but is coming off an absolutley putrid year.

End of day? All but 2.5 in cap space is gone. Did they actually get any better? And then add in the loss of Hill, and the two picks that havent been dealt with. I honestly dont see how they set themselves up to be all that much better. Curry is stil their best asset if they deal his expring for value...but they had that already. SO they get to play a bunch of guys out of position...seriously? Not that much better.

I think we added pieces to set ouselves up for better moves. We'll see if we get them or not...but we stil have 15mil in cap space and added 4 nice young players. Nothing special individually but great cap value...good pieces to make additional moves. Still have all our up coming picks plus the extra secon rounders and the GSW pick. Just good trade assets...good position to be in.

Sundov wrote:Did you guys forget that the nets only won 12 games last season?? And what did they add this offseason? Derrick favors will be a very good player in the future but he is nowhere near being nba ready. He's too raw at this stage. I know the nets have a young team but just because they're a year older I don't see them doubling their win total. The nets also totally flunked out this offseason and I don't see any elite free agents signing with them any time soon.

The knicks on the other hand got amare, who is the only guy on either team who consistenly draws double teams and has any playoff experience. Gallo and especially Randolph have a ton of potential and are both very young. The knicks' defense has improved considerably by adding turiaf, randolph, mozgov, azubuike and felton and are deep at every position. The knicks also have max room next offseason and you guys have to admit that if carmelo doesn't sign the extension the nuggets he will most probably be a knick next season. Again, I don't see anyone of amare or melo's level signing with the nets any time soon.

I expect the nets to be bottom of the East again with about 20-25 wins. I think the Knicks get 35-40 wins.

The Knicks will NOT have max room next season unless they renounce a good chunk of those guys you are oh so excited about.

They are not DEEP at everry position...and in fat...will have guys playing out of position at the 2, and 5 if this is the team they go with.

No, we didnt forget that we won 12 games. Did you forget that you only won 29? Its better...but better degrees of sucking...is still sucking. You dont have a 1st round pick to trade until 2014.

Yes Amare can draw double teams...that's great. How many games do you expect him to be on the court to do that? 40? 50? 60?

And while you added Amare, a prospect in the Russian kid, Randolph...a lesser prospect in Azuibuke, and low level starting PG in Felton...you gave up David Lee an all star big man who is young and will earn 6 mil less this season (much lower cap hit), Harrington, Nate, Hill, your 2012 pick, and swap of the lower pick for 2011.

Stop acting like you didnt give up a ton to get what you got.

We gave up Yi and CDR and only disposable players beyond that. We added the best big man in the draft in Favors, a true steal at #24 in James, Morrow a nice prospect on a great contract, Farmar a backup not much less than the guy you got to start, a big man in Petro no worse the Mosgov, and Outlaw a quality wing player. ANd the best part? We actually DO HAVE max space for next summer. In fact...we are at league minimum for this season with 14.95 in space AS WE SPEAK. We kept our top 5 players from last season...added a few more...and still have all that cap space, plus the most picks of any team in the NBA the next 3 years to make moves with. So? We are in one of the best positions in the league to make additional moves.

Bottom line...your net gain after factoring all you gave up wasnt all that. Our gains while lacking a proven player on a 100mil contract, are obvious. We gave up very little in outgoing talent, or cap space to add some nice talent. We still have the cap space to add that big contract, and among the longest list of tradeable assets to get him.

You got smoke and mirrors. LOOK AMARE!!!!! (please dont notice all we gave up to come away with him). But hey....you guys are the BEST! You will pay Dolan year after year after year for the same thing. A box office draw despite the obvious flaws in the teams design.

12 wins...terrible season. 9 CONSECUTIVE LOSING seasons with most of those lottery picks made by other teams...FAR WORSE.

AdamG118 wrote:How far in the future are we talking? Also, Nets had a worse offseason. No question. If Knicks didn't sign Amare, the Nets would have given him a similar deal.

I'd say we find out in 2 or 3 years since both rosters are young.

That's absolutely not true. Nets wanted NO PART of Amare. The only way they would have signed him is if Lebron said...SIGN HIM and I will come. You guys went the other way. UH OH...good shot we gave away three years worth of lottery picks just to make Jeffries go away for nothing...BETTER get a NAME. Doesnt matter if he isnt worth 6mil more than David Lee this season...or massively more than that over the life of the deal.

THe sad part is...what you guys dont even realize? You HAD the cap space for Amare. You dealt Jeffries, Hill, 2012, 2011 swap, Harington and Nate for Felton, Randolph, Azuibuke and Turiaf.

You REALLY think that was worth it? Hell...not sure giving up Lee for Amare was a good move straight up. Factor in the contract?????

What did you guys really accomplish? We made small improvements. But we also left ourselves room to make significant improvements through the draft...an option you dont have...or through trades, your position will significantly improve in that area after December 15th...but dont foo yourself...its not as good as our trade position, and yes...you can make free agent moves next summer..IF you dont trade Curry, and if you renouce a good chunk of the players you added.

It always amuses me how little it takes to make Knicks fans happy. ANd clearly that is what Dolan counts on. You have no problem looking down your nose at our 12 win season and three rebuilding seasons while adding our third nice lottery pick up in a row...as you are ignoring that you havent had a winning record or won a playoff game in a decade, only have Gallo from your lottery picks to show for it,=...and all the while...had the highest payroll in the NBA over that time frame. Your franchise has been the absolute worst run franchise in sports. You guys do not seem to know the difference between rebuilding and recycling....yet year after year...you never miss a beat.

You sound the same now as you did during the Kidd years as we were whooping your ass winning something like 35 games to 3. That arrogance like you are the Yankees of this sport. You arent. You have false pride and nothing more.

namakiri wrote:Future - please define.

The nets have a brighter future in a sense that in the next 3-5 years, they will look better than the Knicks because they are alot younger. But in this immediate season and perhaps the next 2 seasons, the Knicks will look better than the Nets. However the Knicks could always land young talent by trading off guys like amare, felton, and others in the future. So because I believe the Knicks have stronger and more stable assets vs. the nets more numerous assets, my vote is the Knicks.

Amare will be a Knick for as much of his contract as Kmart was destined to be for Denver. EVERY STINKING OVER PAID MINUTE OF IT.

The best thing about Felton is...he isnt Tony Douglas and his contract while more than he is worth per season is short.

The Knicks most tradeable assets are Curry...who finaly has value for the first time since they acquired HIS miserable contract, Gallo the one guy they DONT want to trade....and Randolph. Too bad they dumped Jeffires, Hill, and two first rounders. Those would have been really nice tradeable assets too.

enetric wrote:
The Knicks will NOT have max room next season unless they renounce a good chunk of those guys you are oh so excited about.

They are not DEEP at everry position...and in fat...will have guys playing out of position at the 2, and 5 if this is the team they go with.

No, we didnt forget that we won 12 games. Did you forget that you only won 29? Its better...but better degrees of sucking...is still sucking. You dont have a 1st round pick to trade until 2014.

Yes Amare can draw double teams...that's great. How many games do you expect him to be on the court to do that? 40? 50? 60?

And while you added Amare, a prospect in the Russian kid, Randolph...a lesser prospect in Azuibuke, and low level starting PG in Felton...you gave up David Lee an all star big man who is young and will earn 6 mil less this season (much lower cap hit), Harrington, Nate, Hill, your 2012 pick, and swap of the lower pick for 2011.

Stop acting like you didnt give up a ton to get what you got.

We gave up Yi and CDR and only disposable players beyond that. We added the best big man in the draft in Favors, a true steal at #24 in James, Morrow a nice prospect on a great contract, Farmar a backup not much less than the guy you got to start, a big man in Petro no worse the Mosgov, and Outlaw a quality wing player. ANd the best part? We actually DO HAVE max space for next summer. In fact...we are at league minimum for this season with 14.95 in space AS WE SPEAK. We kept our top 5 players from last season...added a few more...and still have all that cap space, plus the most picks of any team in the NBA the next 3 years to make moves with. So? We are in one of the best positions in the league to make additional moves.

Bottom line...your net gain after factoring all you gave up wasnt all that. Our gains while lacking a proven player on a 100mil contract, are obvious. We gave up very little in outgoing talent, or cap space to add some nice talent. We still have the cap space to add that big contract, and among the longest list of tradeable assets to get him.

You got smoke and mirrors. LOOK AMARE!!!!! (please dont notice all we gave up to come away with him). But hey....you guys are the BEST! You will pay Dolan year after year after year for the same thing. A box office draw despite the obvious flaws in the teams design.

12 wins...terrible season. 9 CONSECUTIVE LOSING seasons with most of those lottery picks made by other teams...FAR WORSE.

Wow. The most 'homeristic' post of all time (Is that word? It is now.)

First of all the Knicks WILL have a max contract to give out next season. Curry, Turiaf and Chandler will expire, giving us the option to keep chandler and still have max room. Carmelo still hasn't signed that hefty extension with denver even with the lockout looming. Melo is very good friends with amare, he also loves d'antoni and he lives in new york. The chances of melo coming to new york are looking pretty good. The nets on the other hand didn't get a single top tier free agent and don't lie to yourself and pretend they weren't going for any. You guys couldn't even get carlos boozer. Unless the nets get harrison barnes and start cracking the 20 win barrier no one worth a damn will even consider coming to new jersey with or without that russian owner you have.

You say 29 wins is not much more than 12 wins?? That's more than 2 times as much. Also, the fact that you keep talking about draft picks kinda shows the state the knicks and the nets are. The knicks will probably be 7th or 8th seed next season (read around the net, I'm not the only one who thinks this) so we're not talking about a top 3 pick like you guys will be having next season. The season after that we will be swapping picks with houston and since we got a young team there is no reason to believe the knicks will be giving up a lotery pick in that swap.

The difference between david lee and amare is pretty big. I was a big lee fan last season but he had HUGE holes in his game. He was stat padder who stole rebounds from teammates, played ZERO defense and never in his life drew a double team. You need a star player who can draw double teams and score 30 any given night to be a serious team. Having a team full of role players may look decent on paper but unless they are an elite defensive team they won't get many wins. That's just a fact. Look at the nets and knicks last year, they had some decent pieces but not having that go-to guys makes it hard to consistently win games.

The knicks also got rid of all the players that were holding them back like harrington (biggest ball hog in the league), duhon (worst starting point guard in the history of the nba), nate (headcase), jared jeffries (worst starter in the league), larry hughes (i hate him). We replaced those guys with guys like azubuike, randolph, felton, turiaf all guys that finally fit d'antonti's run and gun system and more importantly play defense.

CDR and Yi were probably in your top 5 players last season. They were solid young players that you gave up for bench guys like morrow and jordan farmar. You comparing farmar to felton is an absolute joke. I don't even want to get into that, its not worth it. I really don't see how the nets can even hope to double their win total. Looking at the East the nets are still the worst team by far. You can pray for harrison barnes, but as we've seen time and time again getting the most lottery balls doesn't guarantee you anything.

As I said before, Favors is a good prospect that has a chance to be very good but could also be a bust. Guys like gallo and randolph on the other hand have proven themselves already, with both of those players getting huge props from players around the league (check out what melo, lebron and dirk had to say about gallo).

And I don't know why you keep bringing up the fact that the knicks sucked over the past 10 years. We all know that, you don't need to remind us. But this thread is about the future, not the past.

^^Im not gonna go into detail regarding our 12 win season.. if you're too dumb to understand the situation we went through last season, then I have no interest in explaining it to you.

What I am interested is... what exactly has Randolph proven except for the fact that he can't stay on the court to save his life.. What about being traded away in his 3rd year by a rebuilding team??

Now ask yourself this, if the Nets had called GS and offered them Favors for Randolph.. what would have been their answer?? I thought so..

Well Randolph has proven that he can get beat up by Luke Walton in the post, that has to count for something right?

jeff1624 wrote:^^Im not gonna go into detail regarding our 12 win season.. if you're too dumb to understand the situation we went through last season, then I have no interest in explaining it to you.

What I am interested is... what exactly has Randolph proven except for the fact that he can't stay on the court to save his life.. What about being traded away in his 3rd year by a rebuilding team??

Now ask yourself this, if the Nets had called GS and offered them Favors for Randolph.. what would have been their answer?? I thought so..

I want you to go and read the GState boards about the randolph trade. Maybe ask them what they think about it. Come back after you've done that and maybe we can have a proper discussion about the guy.

And don't give me the excuse that the nets were tanking. So did a bunch of other teams that wanted the first pick. The nets didn't win a game in the first 20+ games they played, are you gonna tell me they were tanking from the get go. Was that all a part of lawrence frank's plan to get fired??
The fact is that the nets won 12 games and have barely improved their roster for this season. 20 games is going to be hard to reach.