The Melo Thread (Merged Topics)

[NyCeEvO]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... xtension/#

As much as we've heard the phrase "sources close to (fill in the blank w/ a superstar player name)" this summer, I'm a little shocked to see someone even put this out. I know they could easily be wrong BUT if Carmelo is not going to sign an extension this summer he's DEFINITELY FORSAKING big money to play on another team. There is no way in his right mind he would drop a 3yr/$65 mil (which almost certainly would lead to then another max contract in a few years) to resign for a longer contract with much less money per year under the new CBA rules to stay with Denver unless they win a championship this year.

I knew that Denver was nervous when they saw that Carmelo didn't take the extension earlier in the summer and team execs said that they didn't expect Carmelo to rush into the extension because he was about to get married and there was a lot going on with that. But I did not buy that because a millionaire NBA player does not have much planning to do for a wedding. I think that was Denver's way of temporarily covering what could become a huge problem for them in the near future.

Forget all of the "LeBron took less/did not take less money" arguments. If Carmelo does not sign this extension, he will be losing the most money by far. Billy King, you should be calling NOH again and asking them what is needed for CP3.

[NyCeEvO]

Denver's New Direction: Yesterday the Denver Nuggets released General Manager Mark Warkentien and vice president of player personnel Rex Chapman. The move wasn't a left field decision. This story has been out there since late June, and we have hit on it a few times since summer league.

The move wasn't financial as much as it was philosophical and Nuggets' owner Stan Kroenke ultimately pulled the trigger.

The Nuggets have a lot of problems to solve in the next few weeks, because now without leadership and a head coach with just one year left on his deal and roster that doesn't have much of a future, the Nuggets are now adrift in uncertain waters.

Nuggets' head coach George Karl said he was disappointed in the move, mainly because of the kind of working relationship Warkentien had with him.

"I have a lot of love and friendship with Mark. Over the last few years, we pulled off some incredible personnel moves," said Karl to Ben Hochman of the Denver Post. "Mark and I work very well as a team, but I also respect Stan (Kroenke) and the organization. … I respect his decision and I respect that we will move hopefully in a direction that will somehow, someway, be better. But Mark, to me, is a very, very first-class personnel guy."

"As a coach, there's always frustrating moments with personnel. Always moments that we disagree. But Mark and I, in the last 20 years, worked together probably 10 of those years. We can fight with each other, hang up on each other, and we still work together. That's an asset. In the same sense, Stan is very capable and interesting and kind of eccentric owner in a lot of ways.

"In the next few days I'm sure they'll be some conversations and I hope that I have some input."

The new front office staff will have a daunting task in front of them and that's convincing Carmelo Anthony to sign a contract extension, something current management was unable to do.

Sources close to the Nuggets say that Kroenke has already made it clear he will not be held hostage by Anthony's pending free agency. If Carmelo won't commit, the Nuggets will trade him rather than go through what Cleveland went through last year, only to ultimately lose Carmelo to another team.

Carmelo's camp has made it pretty clear that they were not inking a deal with so much uncertainty surrounding the direction of the team. So for the Nuggets, acting quickly and getting a new front office staff in place that inspires confidence has more consequences than normal.

The wrong hire here could trigger a domino effect in Denver that sends the team from title contender, to lottery team.

The Nuggets started talking to potential candidates several weeks ago in an informal way and have their eyes on former Suns' executive David Griffin, Wizards' Vice President of Basketball Administration Tommy Sheppard and Raptors' assistant general manager of player personnel Masai Ujiri.

The Nuggets said yesterday that they would compile an extensive list of candidates and be thorough in their process.

NBA training camp open on September 27th for teams not participating in international games, meaning the Nuggets have 54 days to put new leadership in place before the start of the season.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z0veVlFK5b

I already know what the answer is but I have to ask this to our Nets fanbase.

1) Obviously, if we could we'd get both BUT if you had to chose one, who would you rather trade for: Carmelo or CP3?
Take into consideration what each may cost. We've talked about this for Paul but not Carmelo. I definitely believe that Denver doesn't want to go through what Cleveland went through and they would try to trade him if it seems like things won't work out. We have an abundance of wing players and for them someone like idk...Outlaw would be a solid cheaper replacement.

2) If (and this is an enormous IF) we can get both, do you think it would be smarter/easier to bring Melo or CP3 first?

I don't want to get caught up in this too quickly but you gotta believe that CP3 and Melo have already been talking about their own Big 3 someplace. Maybe NOH tries to nab Melo but I strongly doubt that they have the pieces to bring him in. With our high potential player in Favors and a bunch of wings, I think the Nets are in a great position to go after one and then the other. E, I'm starting to thing that there's "blood in the water" with Melo too.

[enetric]

OK...I will answer some of your questions and try to give my thoughts at the same time.

First off...If I had to chose one? All love and CUSE loyalty aside...NBA wise...Paul destroys Melo as a player IMO...not close. Melo is a great scorer...leaves A LOT to be desired beyond that. Paul is just...all around superb. Cant find a weakness. The one asterisk of course is...how is the knee. Beyond that...no question if I had to chose one.


Next, people around here are fearing Paul having a 2 year contract. Well, Melo is a free agent this summer without the extension. Two years is an NBA eternity to win a guy over if we are talking...trade for him now. One year? Well...I cant see Melo traded before the trade deadline...so its really half a season. Melo isn't asking out...and he will let it be known through his agent...to any team that asks...YES I will sign an extension with you...NO...DONT TRADE FOR ME...I will be a rental.

So that answers your next question. If you were going to try and get both...who do you get first? Paul. First because you KNOW he wants out. Second because he has a couple of years under contract, and third if you had the best PG in the game under a 2 year contract...it makes convincing the NEXT guy like Melo who has more options that you are a more attractive destination on the verge of doing something big.

Next, I am going to say it right now. We don't make the big trade...you can forget free agency for a major talent next summer as long as there are better markets out there with cap space.

We had an "angle" on Lebron that in theory could have helped us over come the stigma of playing in one of the least desirable markets out there. Now that it didn't happen...I think its going to be a harder sell to another star to become the FIRST star to come over...until our young talent is truly playing like all stars...or we are actually IN BROOKLYN. In the mean time...if we show up next summer to recruit Melo with cap space and the current roster...and the Nix let some of their young talent go but still have Amare...and he has a healthy season...they have a leg up on us for recruiting the next time around. That's how I see it. I didn't see it that way with Lebron...I always felt we were ahead of them on his wish list and absolutely still do believe that we were....but that is how I see it with just about anyone else.

Therefore...want Melo? Better be a trade for him...or a trade to up our profile for a different star first or FORGET IT.

Blood in the water:
To be clear as to why I used that expression for Paul...it was a combination of things. First, the severe financial issues surrounding Shinn. Second, his desire and FAILURE thus far to sell his team. Those things right there tell you, he is no longer invested in the future results of his team on the court...only its value as a business. Losing its top player would hurt its value, but terrible PR, a high priced contract has negative impact to value. So those things right there...have to be considered. The team itself on the court is also an underachiever which makes it easier to justify changes. Then you add in...Paul's people running around saying he wants out and the team needing to sit down with him....you have about all the confirmation you need to know...there is blood in the water.

Melo is not quite as simple. The upper management changes were NOT financial...but philosophical. Says so...right at the top of the article. If we take this to be true...the changes are not necessarily ones that impact what a player might want to do. Coaches and execs change all the time. SO what do we know about Melo?

First off, while everyone in the NY metro area has it in their head that HE wants to come to this area...he has NEVER said that. Paul made the rumored toast at HIS wedding that adds fuel to the fire...not Melo. All his draft class pals took the opt out deal when they signed their last contract for the summer of 2010. Melo said...I like it here...and took the longer extension. Since then....he still says he his happy. And why shouldn't he be? Unlike Bosh or Wade (with he exception of that 2 year window when Shaq first got there)....he has already been playing the last few year on a top 4 team in his conference. He says he LOVES the city of Denver as well, and overall his team has been very aggressive since he came into the league at making big trades and signings. They have spent a ton to try and win...and that is what most of these guys want to see when they decide to stay with a team.

So why not take the extension right now? Well, there is the J.Kidd philosophy. The one that basically says, the only time YOU have leverage to get your team to make big spending moves is when they FEAR losing you. There is also the CBA issue. Will that impact him at all? Its not like he doesn't have time to decide. He has until next July to accept. So that brings us to the next issue. Why rush if you are him? Take your time. So? is there really blood in the water? Or just a media story based on...so and so didn't take the extension...we can sell papers by working the angles of what that means. Maybe it means something. Maybe it means just what I said. He has time, and he has the leverage. For all we know...the philosophical differences the execs had weren't just with ownership...but with the players as well. That could have been part of the power play.

And it may not have been something as obvious as...I WANT THOSE GUYS OUT. It could have been a conversation between owner and player or owner and agent that went like this.

So what's the hold up with your contract extension?

Well, I love it here and want to spend my entire career as a Nugget but I am concerned with the direction of the team in terms of going after other talent to help us get past the Lakers. Every time I speak to Warkentien and Chapman all I hear about is budgets and how they cant get anyone. Then I see Camby gone...and Kleiza gone...and it makes me wonder...are we going to try and improve this team? If you are concerned about finances now...what happens if I sign the extension? Will you downsize even more?

Oh no...that isn't going to happen. We are committed to putting the best product on the court and I will approve spending as needed.

Well, then you should speak to Warkentien and Chapman about that....because that isn't what I have been hearing the last two years.




And just like that...damage control happens.


So? I am not as inclined to believe Melo is really available just yet. I think...6 months from now...if he still hasn't signed that extension...sure. Absolutely I could see him get moved for the exact reason of...dont want to be left with nothing. But then, it will only work out...if its a team Melo wants to go to because he has the threat of walking away a few months later. Knicks in that case would be in a much better position if you ask me...that is...IF he wants to go there. But if he does...they cold send Curry's expiring, and prospects and our pure cap space is not as big a deal as it is now since Curry would be prorated to its smallest portion by then. Cash included can turn it into almost zero. And that is just one team. Who is to say...LA doesn't make an offer and decide to pony up a healthy Bynum by then?

I don't think Melo would turn that down.

[kmsmith5]

Nice post above by enertic. I agree with everything including the small probability that Carmelo leaves and therefore even smaller probability that he comes to NJ. However, I think even if a Paul deal can be worked out,the ability to sign 'Melo with cap space needs to remain available just in case. This means taking on Okafor's contract is a problem. Is there a 3rd team that needs a player like him even though his contract is terrible? Also, what to do with Devin Harris? Maybe SAC would want him in exchange for picks and a $9mil. TPE?

[SOUP]

Would be golden if we overachieve and end up with a better record than the Knicks.

[vincecarter4pres]

Spot on with the Melo situation...

[enetric]

There are a lot of issues or angles. You try to make the first deal for the best price you can. You cant say...dont trade for the better player now because there might be another guy later we also like. I mean,...what if Outlaw...at 7mil for an SF and only 25....plays GREAT?

And what if he were part of the second package? Have to wait and see when and if Paul is truly available. Right now...I think NO is waiting. Either for tickets sales....or to see if they can finalize the sale of the team....whatever. But even with blood in the water....I do not think there is a deal out there NO is considering within the next 24 hours...or possibly the next couple of months.

FOr now...its not really worth worrying about. So yyou can make calls to both those teams....but you are going to hear,...thanks but no thanks at this time.

[NyCeEvO]

Ok, I see your many points haha.

I'm in total agreement with on the CP3 vs. Melo: who's better argument. I view Paul like Kidd in the sense that if you have a guy who EVERY time he touches the ball can make something special happen through passing or scoring, then the guy is truly special. Once Kidd got in the open court with KMart and RJ, the other team was finished. If Paul can succeed with Tyson Chandler, there's no way in the world that he can't do the same with Lopez and/or Favors. If Favors only has to catch alleyoops and be on the receiving end of a play created by Paul in which he just needs to layup/dunk the ball, he helps the team instantly because of the athleticism he has. PLUS, when CP3 is healthy, he averages 20+ppg, close to if not more than 11apg (since he's done it before), 2.5+ stlpg, and 4rpg.

As far as Melo and the wait and see approach, I completely agree to. Why demand a trade when you're team is close to being a contending team and legitimately was 2 seasons ago. His team did beat CP3 2 seasons ago by 58 points in a playoff game. (Personally, I think that's when Paul realized "Hey these guys are just pushing me around but I don't have the personnel to push back.") However, I see Melo seeing this situation though:
1) Billups is great but can only be as good or on the decline from here on out. Also, he's got 2yrs left with the final year being a team option at $14 million. Do I want to stay with an older Billups and/or will Denver pay him to stay?
2) KMart is great when he's healthy but the problem is that he's no longer ever healthy.
3) JR Smith is a free agent in 2011 and Nene could be too if he doesn't pick up his player option.
4) Will George Karl stay especially with the health concerns? He's only got one year left. There was problems with the team and the asst. coach Adrian Dantley when he took over at the end of the season and the playoffs. What will they do with the coach?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

Basically, they could go from a contender to a lottery team in one season...OR everything could sort itself out. He waits to accept but that in itself puts pressure on Denver. Denver knows its good enough to make the playoffs and they make even show flashes of being a contender during the season but if they don't win, they are in the exact same spot that Cleveland was in with LeBron. So until Carmelo signs the extension or they win, Denver inevitably becomes much more nervous. With an uncertain future and with the sight of seeing 3 of his friends get together to try to win, now I can see Carmelo saying "screw the money (even though it's a ton to give up), I want to do the same thing that the other guys got a chance to do". Signing Al Harrington only helps the chances that they don't win LOL.

The thing that people don't see is that star players tend to love free agency. They love being told that they are the best player in the league and how they are perfectly suited for this team and yada yada yada. Now, I see current batch of stars saying "I'll be a millionaire regardless of where I play". As most people say, "Money can't buy you happiness." So would you rather be filthy stinking rich and unhappy with your situation or just filthy (but not stinking) rich and happy? The opportunity to put yourself in the best position to win AND make money is an opportunity that I think all of the '03 class sees and relishes.

With all that being said, the Nets need Paul more than they need Melo. And the only way to get Melo (IMO) is to get Paul first. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if CP3 is a Net, we're going after Melo. You can put that in stone. Prokhorov already knows of and likes Paul. He was using Paul as a chip to pull in LeBron during the summer so we already know that he wants him. We get CP3 now or later this season and (if he stays healthy) Melo is going to follow in the offseason. He'll have the chance to play with the best PG in the league and they're already good friends. Give up Favors, picks, and whatever wing player(s) you want, bring CP3 here even with Okacrap's contract if need be. We will have a young team regardless and the only thing we'd be missing is the that scorer to playing alongside the PG/C combo of CP3 and Lopez.

I know this can seem pretty detailed but I'm seeing this as the best opportunity for the Nets to get closed to winning and stick with Proky's plan of succeeding within 5 years. We haven't even started those 5 years yet and yes, that is along time. However, I think the chance to get the best PG in the league rarely comes up. We did it once but that sure doesn't mean we'll be able to do it again. This time EVERYONE knows this guy can and most likely will want out and the packages for Paul will be coming. We've got the potential, youth, and contracts to get Paul and I really don't think you let this opportunity slip. Proky has mentioned Paul, King has said that we will do our "due diligence" regarding CP3, and if you google search "chris paul nets", we all can see that with that many links to possible trades and reports that we were/are/will pursue, there is indeed 'blood in the water' there.

Trading for a proven player is much better than drafting a guy and hoping that he will match his potential years down the road. If the Nets want to succeed soon, the time to make changes is very very soon.

My Outline for what the Nets should/will do:
1) Get Paul
2) Let Melo come to us

The core is CP3/Melo/Lopez + good young bench. To me, THAT is a championship-caliber team.

[vincecarter4pres]

The thing is, we almost certainly cannot make a run at Melo if we have to take on Okafor in a Chris Paul deal.

[NyCeEvO]

The thing is, we almost certainly cannot make a run at Melo if we have to take on Okafor in a Chris Paul deal.

IF Melo wanted to come badly enough, he can request what a lot of other teams have been doing: Sign and Trade. Salary issue solved.

[enetric]

Would be golden if we overachieve and end up with a better record than the Knicks.

As long as we have the higher lottey pick...fine. Otherwise as stated...overachieing for young team...not a good thing.

[enetric]

The thing is, we almost certainly cannot make a run at Melo if we have to take on Okafor in a Chris Paul deal.

That might not be true. It depends on what we give up in compensation as well. Say....we get to keep Favors out of a Paul deal for example. And got to package him at the break with a good season from Outlaw?

I find it hard to believe we can do both deals either. But...I always felt Melo to the Nets was most likely NEVER going to happen.

[Rockice_8]

This seems so far fetched, it's never going to happen. We would have to dismantle our team to get that done. It would be a sick trio though.

Our best bet right now is to land a top 5 pick next season (Barnes/Jones) and use one of them to land CP3 next offseason (hopefully NO holds on to him for one more year to try and work things out but fails), then sign Melo for a small S&T for picks. We could keep Favors/Lopez and add Melo/CP3.

Thats the best bet.

[NyCeEvO]

The thing is, we almost certainly cannot make a run at Melo if we have to take on Okafor in a Chris Paul deal.

That might not be true. It depends on what we give up in compensation as well. Say....we get to keep Favors out of a Paul deal for example. And got to package him at the break with a good season from Outlaw?

I find it hard to believe we can do both deals either. But...I always felt Melo to the Nets was most likely NEVER going to happen.

If Paul doesn't come first, I don't want Melo. That would be the same situation as being an 8th seed with no hopes of getting a great draft pick by the nature of just losing and getting one.

The way I see it, there's absolutely no point in trading or signing one star and being content. You go for the home run asap or you continue to rebuild and get high draft picks. Drafting an eventual star is different because you're basically acquiring talent for nothing but it takes years to develop. Signing or trading requires you to either give up talent or give up a lot of money but has instant results.

[NyCeEvO]

This seems so far fetched, it's never going to happen. We would have to dismantle our team to get that done. It would be a sick trio though.

Our best bet right now is to land a top 5 pick next season (Barnes/Jones) and use one of them to land CP3 next offseason (hopefully NO holds on to him for one more year to try and work things out but fails), then sign Melo for a small S&T for picks. We could keep Favors/Lopez and add Melo/CP3.

Thats the best bet.

All trades for superstars seem like unlikely until they actually happen. All superstar acquisitions have a wow factor to them because people didn't believe that they could happen or a lot of people are pissed that they couldn't get that player. I realize the likelihood of this happening is low at this point because none of this has occurred and it seems like a lot of things can/would get in the way. All I'm saying is you have to take the approach the Nets are taking in reality, which is breaking things down into chunks and work bit by bit because everything can't happen in a second. It doesn't matter which superstar, these things will take time.

This is why Proky's comments are my sig. This summer might have seemed like a failure. We were up and down thinking LeBron will come...he won't...he will...he won't. But the bottom line is that we hoped. The Nets had a chance. All of our posts (no matter how ridiculous they are) are comments and thoughts on the Nets being that championship team. It's funny how we all say the Nets can be great if they do 1...2..3...and people always say that's too easy, that will never happen. And you know what? It might not. But I guarantee you that for every 10,000 fans that said "Wade/LBJ/Bosh would never team up", there was that one who said "It's possible, just wait and watch." That's simply all I'm doing. What would my time be on this board if I could see in the future and know what will happen? I'd never post because there would be no hope. We all come on here to say "Well, if X, then Y COULD happen" and that's what we live for. I respect everyone's opinion but if there's anything that I learned from this offseason, it's "never say never" because you just don't know for sure until something happens.

Btw, mark my words: IF we get CP3 and the Nuggets don't win, mark my words, Melo is a Net!..
That's the fanatic in me speaking haha...

[enetric]

However, I see Melo seeing this situation though:
1) Billups is great but can only be as good or on the decline from here on out. Also, he's got 2yrs left with the final year being a team option at $14 million. Do I want to stay with an older Billups and/or will Denver pay him to stay?
2) KMart is great when he's healthy but the problem is that he's no longer ever healthy.
3) JR Smith is a free agent in 2011 and Nene could be too if he doesn't pick up his player option.
4) Will George Karl stay especially with the health concerns? He's only got one year left. There was problems with the team and the asst. coach Adrian Dantley when he took over at the end of the season and the playoffs. What will they do with the coach?
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

Yeah...but there is another side to that though that SUPPORTS what I am saying. These things are the very reason NOT to sign an extension. They arent always reasons to actually LEAVE. They give you leverage. Denver has 83mil in payroll this year. They have trimmed the fat in recent seasons by dumping Camby, letting Keliza walk as examples. But...

But...they have only 11mil in guaranteed salary for next season. 11 of 77. Kmart at 16.5 isnt about his health or his age....its about his expring contract. One reason not to sign is to say hey...MAYBE YOU guys should be offering to take Okafor with Paul and bring them HERE. And what other TALENT driven lopsided deals will you make at the deadline? Will you send out our expring deals for BETTER talent on worse contracts? LEVERAGE BABY!

Ditto Chauncey Billups. 13.1mil this year, and a team option the next. Thats as good as an expring contract...and his is a save face contract. Think...Ray Allen dumped to the Sonics for Gary Payton. Looks like value for value...but with no intention of keeping. Saves face for now if you dump and acquire him...but gives you an out later when you say..well...didnt work out or we opted to go in another direction.

JR Smith is a role playing chucker. If someone wants him as part of a deal to get you REAL talent...great throw him in.

And the coach? That has no bearing. NONE. You like your coach or you dont. You dont stay or leave because of him as that most are gone every 3-5 yeara anyway. No telling if you will like the guy in the next town anyway.

Basically, they could go from a contender to a lottery team in one season...OR everything could sort itself out. He waits to accept but that in itself puts pressure on Denver. Denver knows its good enough to make the playoffs and they make even show flashes of being a contender during the season but if they don't win, they are in the exact same spot that Cleveland was in with LeBron. So until Carmelo signs the extension or they win, Denver inevitably becomes much more nervous. With an uncertain future and with the sight of seeing 3 of his friends get together to try to win, now I can see Carmelo saying "screw the money (even though it's a ton to give up), I want to do the same thing that the other guys got a chance to do". Signing Al Harrington only helps the chances that they don't win LOL.

Absolutely. But the stall may not result in free agency. THe stall may be to push them to make more moves....NOT to dump...not to be stuck in a rebuild...but to get them to keep going. And if they do...he signs. If they dont...he may get traded. But coming back to what you asked...I dont see it to the Nets. I dont see him wanting to be part of THIS team as we are built. SO that answers your original question.

The thing that people don't see is that star players tend to love free agency. They love being told that they are the best player in the league and how they are perfectly suited for this team and yada yada yada. Now, I see current batch of stars saying "I'll be a millionaire regardless of where I play". As most people say, "Money can't buy you happiness." So would you rather be filthy stinking rich and unhappy with your situation or just filthy (but not stinking) rich and happy? The opportunity to put yourself in the best position to win AND make money is an opportunity that I think all of the '03 class sees and relishes.

Yes that's true...but some things to make not of:

1- MOST of the time...after looking around...players stay put.
2- Melo has been quoted saying he never cared about that process and in fact prefered NOT to go through it and that is a big part of why he signed the LAST big extension.
3- EVERY SINGLE time with the exception the Heat big 3 (and people are still scoffing at it being a sacrifice) players have taken the most money anyway and the "a millionaire regardless" speech that fans make...amounts to squat.
4- Who says best possible team to go to makes him happier than the market he has been in. Fans like to define happy as ONLY winning titles. Be the believe you can compete for a title and LIVE WHERE YOU LOVE is pretty damn good definition of HAPPY.
5- Even with Paul...with the Heat big three formed...the landscape and expectation for winning titles has clearly changed. There are a lot of teams out there better than we are. Why would he covet US as a free agent or in an S&T? Why for example wouldnt you push to go to the Lakers if winning was your absolutely tp priority? He could go there, get paid MAX bucks...and be much better off than anything we could offer him.

With all that being said, the Nets need Paul more than they need Melo. And the only way to get Melo (IMO) is to get Paul first. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if CP3 is a Net, we're going after Melo. You can put that in stone. Prokhorov already knows of and likes Paul. He was using Paul as a chip to pull in LeBron during the summer so we already know that he wants him. We get CP3 now or later this season and (if he stays healthy) Melo is going to follow in the offseason. He'll have the chance to play with the best PG in the league and they're already good friends. Give up Favors, picks, and whatever wing player(s) you want, bring CP3 here even with Okacrap's contract if need be. We will have a young team regardless and the only thing we'd be missing is the that scorer to playing alongside the PG/C combo of CP3 and Lopez.

That all had little to do with Proky and more to do with Rod Thorn. But I am sure we will continue to montor the Paul situation just as the rest of the NBA will. But your thoughts on in stone...and Melo will follow? Under your sceanrio, impossible. If we acquire Paul by trade...absolutely VC was right...we are taking Okafor. Thus..NO FREE AGENT cap space. We have to get Melo by trade. And that only happens if THIS is where he wants to go. And again I put it to you. WHY? Why us? There are so many better options out there for him. Amare has a good year...why not the Nix who are set up to have the cap space if they do a few small things. LA can trade Bynum for him. Hell, the Heat can trade Bosh for him if they really wanted to have a laugh. Portland can put together a very nice package and they have an owner just as wealthy.

I know this can seem pretty detailed but I'm seeing this as the best opportunity for the Nets to get closed to winning and stick with Proky's plan of succeeding within 5 years. We haven't even started those 5 years yet and yes, that is along time. However, I think the chance to get the best PG in the league rarely comes up. We did it once but that sure doesn't mean we'll be able to do it again. This time EVERYONE knows this guy can and most likely will want out and the packages for Paul will be coming. We've got the potential, youth, and contracts to get Paul and I really don't think you let this opportunity slip. Proky has mentioned Paul, King has said that we will do our "due diligence" regarding CP3, and if you google search "chris paul nets", we all can see that with that many links to possible trades and reports that we were/are/will pursue, there is indeed 'blood in the water' there.

Listen...dont drink the koolaid. I LOVED Proky's bravado too. But that isnt a PLAN...its a bold statement. Its designed to make a statement that costs you nothing. But as for Paul...yes, due dilligence is just that. When or even IF they opt to deal him we will be in the mix. But...the asking price will depend on the market. What will others give up?

Trading for a proven player is much better than drafting a guy and hoping that he will match his potential years down the road. If the Nets want to succeed soon, the time to make changes is very very soon.

Not always. When you factor in what you have to give up to get him...and that he will take on close to a third of your cap space and climbing each season....it isnt a given. And lets ask the obvious question. Melo has played with a batch of more proven players than he would play with here. A far better supporting cast after we gut the team to get him and in your sceanrio Paul. What makes it easier to win here for HIM than it is in Denver these last few years? Kobe is finally getting up there in years. The Heat in the east are just getting started. So? You make us capped out, take us out of the lottery...and dont forget you gave up plenty to get these guys. I would certainly do the deals to get these two....but its not as much of a slam dunk as you are letting yourself think it is.

My Outline for what the Nets should/will do:
1) Get Paul
2) Let Melo come to us

The core is CP3/Melo/Lopez + good young bench. To me, THAT is a championship-caliber team.

Again, the good young bench we have would be playing for NO and Denver. You would have a quality 5 of Paul/Morrow/Melo/Okafor/Brook. Is that better than the Denver teams of the last few years who couldnt beat LA? Now they have to face Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, Chicaco, Boston for a little while longer...Amare and whatever second guy the Knicks get (if you are going to put so much stock into Paul/Melo).


I am all for making the move for Paul and whatever second star we can get. I dont think it will be Melo primarily because of his contract. And if we did somehow get Melo...I think trade is the only way it goes down. We wouldnt have enough cap space to make it happen after a Paul deal...and we wouldnt be atractive to him without. Hell, we might not even be atratice to him with Paul. We are still in NJ for another year after this so even if somehow we didnt have to take on Okafor, there could be better option for signing or an S&T if you are Melo.

The expression I use...blood in the water has a lot to do with trading from a weak position...or a NEEED to make a deal. I dont see that with Denver right now. I COULD see it in 6 months. Either way, they will WANT trade assets. Melo will WANT his extension once he got here...and that will be about 20-25% more than what Paul costs your cap. And it only happens if Melo says YES I want to be with your team. if he doesnt...we wont even look to make the trade.

And you know...as I am thinking about it...not sure if VC was thinking the same thing based on his comments but....the cap space? It would be atractive to Denver too should they make an inseason move simply beacuase they are over the LTT. So a chance to save big dollar for dollar would be of interest. We deal it for Okafor takes away a key chip. Deal Favors takes away a key chip. I could see them opting to offer Billups a lower contract for a couple of years rather than give him that ballon final year....so I dont think Devin would be high on their asset list either.

Nah....I just dont see us with Melo the more I look at it. Too costly for us, too many options for him. Granger while not as good a player...on a losing team, with a much better contract per talent value...is more realistic if Paul is also a target.

[NyCeEvO]

I love this. This is why I joined this forum. You guys all help in applying reality to some fantasy.

There are two sides to every fan. There's a reality check side and there's the dreamer side. Whenever I make these "Nets need to do this" posts, you can be rest assured that's the dreamer side talking. I'm sure if I was one of you guys, I'd probably thinking "WTH is this guy talking about? He's wrong in this way and that way etc." And that's great cuz at the end of the day, I'm learning from guys who know the history of the game, salary cap issues, and are more aware of other teams situations. All this kinda reminds of a Bible verse "Without counsel plans fail,but with many advisers they succeed." You have to have a lot good counselors and advisers for good things to work out. This board is like a set of advisers trying to turn the Nets into a good team.

You bring up a great point about Granger E. I completely forgot about him. All of those fan-made guarantees I made should be removed haha. That changes everything for me. Gotta love this board.

[kmsmith5]

The thing is, we almost certainly cannot make a run at Melo if we have to take on Okafor in a Chris Paul deal.

This took a lot of maneuvering, but I figured out a scenario in which the Nets wouldn't have to take back any salaries past this season other than Paul's, and NOH would clear Okafor and Posey off their books:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=2a3t9ky

Nets send: Lopez(to NO because he fits better than Favors with West), Devin Harris (to IND, they are looking for a PG), a player of Indy's choosing other than Favors to make salaries work (Lee is used for example), 2 1st rd picks to NOH, cash* (more on that later)

Nets receive: Paul, Dunleavy ($10mil. expiring)


Hornets send: Paul to NJ, Posey and Okafor to Indy

Hornets receive: Lopez, 2 1st rd picks, T.J. Ford and Jeff Foster (both expiring contracts), cash*


Pacers send: Ford, Foster, and Dunleavy (all expiring)

Pacers receive: Harris, Okafor, Posey, cash*

*The trade can be split up into multiple transactions in order to send $3mil. to both Indy and NO to sweeten the pot if needed. for example Dunleavy for Harris + $3mil. etc...

[kmsmith5]

Another note on the above trade. First, obviously it is all contingent on Paul requesting a trade, but I think Lopez is great value to a team looking to rebuild and save money. They get Paul out of the Western Conference, get picks, money and completely clear all of their unsavory contracts.

As for Indy, They are giving up their cap space next summer, but who is really gonna be available anyway? The list is not impressive even when you consider Indy is not a good free agent destination. They will not be able to get anyone better than Harris and Okafor even if the price is steep. They would have to overpay for free agents anyway. This way, they get two good players around Granger, keep Murphy, and have a 3 yr Okafor contract instead of giving a lesser player a 5-year deal this summer.

[enetric]

The thing is, we almost certainly cannot make a run at Melo if we have to take on Okafor in a Chris Paul deal.

IF Melo wanted to come badly enough, he can request what a lot of other teams have been doing: Sign and Trade. Salary issue solved.

I dont think you understood his point.

Melo can ask for whatever he wants....but if we take on Okafor in a Paul trade...we have to salary match for Melo. Denver doesnt have to like what we have to offer. So go ahead and make the deal for Paul. Did you send them Devin and Favors in this deal? Was that all? OK great.

Now, you took back Okafor who makes what those two make. Paul eats the 14.95 in cap space.

Now you are maxed. You cant give them LT relief by eaTING ANYTHING Extra from them...even if it was an expiring because you cant match anyone of any size along with Melo.

BAre minimum you have to send them 13.65 mil salary. Since there is no way in hell they are taking Okafor...what are you sending them? Forget that we dont have the compensation once Favors is gone.....what is your plan here? Send them Outlaw, Twill, Lee and Hump????

Do you think they do that? Realize they will still be over the LTT of 70.3mil for this season. So...that means...just to salary match...they are still paying the league 7 mil after you ripped them off for their franchise player and didnt send them anything blue chip. A couple of picks? Not going ot get it done.

You dont think there would be better situations out there for him and the Nuggets?




You should be understanding right about now why a few weeks ago I made the Granger point as being more realistic. At 10.9 mil, locked up for the next 4 seasons on a losing team....he would require less expected compensation in a package, a lower salary match, and a smaller cap hit. As that I dont think NO would really want Devin anyway....and Indy has shown interest....it is conceiveable you could keep Devin out of the deal if you gave up Favors and took on Okafor. Send Devin plus the other prospects for Granger. Its a more realistc deal. Its closer to a fair offer. The biggest issue...really hard to get Paul without sending Devin before Dec. 15th when the free agents we signed can be included in a deal.

Not saying this is a slam dunk either....but it is much more realistic than landing Melo with or without Paul.