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I think its time we not hold anything back and make every single player on our roster available. If we can't even beat the wolves with everyone meaningful except Morrow healthy then no one should be safe. Humphries and Vujacic were the only ones even remotely trying out there and they are valuable expiring contracts.

Brook is clearly not a winner, he wasn't at Stanford and he isn't now and if his 7 foot 22 year old frame can land us a more established big man with a winning attitude I'm all for it. Thoughts?

People need to stop coming down so hard on Brook.

He certainly does not deserve any type of free pass, but calm down a little.

I wouldn't make him an untouchable, but it would take a monster offer to move him, or a special young player also on rookie contract and the ability to move Outlaw for an expiring or good young player as well.

With all that said, Brook still does deserve a ton of criticism. The dude has a single double double in 34 games for christ's sake!

Well, imo, we're in big trouble. This starts with the management and the coaches... Somehow they need to find a way to make some minor to major changes, whether it'd be a trade, a luck in the draft or a shocking FA signing, and then win some. We have a bunch of decent role and bench players right now with no direction because they've been playing beyond their comfort level. Put most of these guys on a winning team, i bet you they're gonna be loved by fans. Lopez, for as long as i've been bashing this guy, i still believe he's special but not Garnett special or even Duncan. He's going to be a big help along with Devin if we only have that one guy that can shoulder the load.

We're stuck because its gonna be hard to sell this team to a very good player like Melo. Good thing in this league if you have money and friends there will always be chance to convince one but we gonna need a lot of help from the basketball Gods.

** i would like to apologize to the fantasy leagues i have abandoned and for being away for months... I have been sick and i just have gotten better. Im back but i feel like im gonna be sick again watching this horrible team. Oh... I hope everyone had a joyful christmas and i wish you guys and our team the best for this year of the rabbit. Today is actually my birthday too so... I wish that Melo would feel bad for us and decides to be our saviour lol.

You don't move Brook. Young 20-something year old centers don't regress the way he has unless there was some sort of off-court / health related incident that is plaguing / plagued the individual (in this case mono).

Long term Brook will be fine.

I think we can legitimately call into question his ability to impact the game defensively, and even under normal circumstances we all should come to terms with the fact that he's not going to be a dominant rebounder but he's a lot better than he has played / will likely play for the rest of this season.

It makes no sense to trade Brook only to have to go out and find a Brook level center later.

Some people like to preach patience but this is where you show if you have any.

8 Mile Ilic wrote:You don't move Brook. Young 20-something year old centers don't regress the way he has unless there was some sort of off-court / health related incident that is plaguing / plagued the individual (in this case mono).

Long term Brook will be fine.

I think we can legitimately call into question his ability to impact the game defensively, and even under normal circumstances we all should come to terms with the fact that he's not going to be a dominant rebounder but he's a lot better than he has played / will likely play for the rest of this season.

It makes no sense to trade Brook only to have to go out and find a Brook level center later.

Some people like to preach patience but this is where you show if you have any.

Absolutely agree in general. I will say though, there are some players you could, almost should trade him for, and I'm not eveb talking that Harden deal I came up with.

I understand the potential but if you dissect brooks game thus far the fact is he doesn't have the natural athleticism to defend the top centers in the league and for someone who is close to 7'1'' he doesnt have a nose for the ball on rebounding. Those two things are very rarely learned and players are usually showing flashes of these things by now.

Two players that come to mind that I wouldnt mind moving brook for is lamarcus aldridge and nene. both are solid to allstar type players with many years left in the league and if we send off brook with picks and murphy for melo and nene then maybe we can keep favors as well.

All im saying is im not in love with brook and as gifted offensively as he may be its the instinctual and natural parts of his game just arent there or at least havent even shown flashes yet

xam2k7 wrote:I understand the potential but if you dissect brooks game thus far the fact is he doesn't have the natural athleticism to defend the top centers in the league and for someone who is close to 7'1'' he doesnt have a nose for the ball on rebounding. Those two things are very rarely learned and players are usually showing flashes of these things by now.

Two players that come to mind that I wouldnt mind moving brook for is lamarcus aldridge and nene. both are solid to allstar type players with many years left in the league and if we send off brook with picks and murphy for melo and nene then maybe we can keep favors as well.

All im saying is im not in love with brook and as gifted offensively as he may be its the instinctual and natural parts of his game just arent there or at least havent even shown flashes yet

Career in rebounding

Brook: 8 rebounds
Aldridge: 7.3 Rebounds

jeff1624 wrote:

xam2k7 wrote:I understand the potential but if you dissect brooks game thus far the fact is he doesn't have the natural athleticism to defend the top centers in the league and for someone who is close to 7'1'' he doesnt have a nose for the ball on rebounding. Those two things are very rarely learned and players are usually showing flashes of these things by now.

Two players that come to mind that I wouldnt mind moving brook for is lamarcus aldridge and nene. both are solid to allstar type players with many years left in the league and if we send off brook with picks and murphy for melo and nene then maybe we can keep favors as well.

All im saying is im not in love with brook and as gifted offensively as he may be its the instinctual and natural parts of his game just arent there or at least havent even shown flashes yet

Career in rebounding

Brook: 8 rebounds
Aldridge: 7.3 Rebounds

Numbers don't tell the whole story... aldridge has also had to contend with good rebounders his whole career especially more recently one of the best ever in marcus camby. i agree that aldridge may not be a MUCH better rebounder but he plays with much more fire and intensity on the court and goes after the ball with reckless abandon... brook kinda just takes whats there

also in the 3 games where camby has missed this year aldridge has averaged close to 15 rebounds... granted 3 games is a very small pool... but if u wanna talk numbers there it is

xam2k7 wrote:

jeff1624 wrote:

xam2k7 wrote:I understand the potential but if you dissect brooks game thus far the fact is he doesn't have the natural athleticism to defend the top centers in the league and for someone who is close to 7'1'' he doesnt have a nose for the ball on rebounding. Those two things are very rarely learned and players are usually showing flashes of these things by now.

Two players that come to mind that I wouldnt mind moving brook for is lamarcus aldridge and nene. both are solid to allstar type players with many years left in the league and if we send off brook with picks and murphy for melo and nene then maybe we can keep favors as well.

All im saying is im not in love with brook and as gifted offensively as he may be its the instinctual and natural parts of his game just arent there or at least havent even shown flashes yet

Career in rebounding

Brook: 8 rebounds
Aldridge: 7.3 Rebounds

Numbers don't tell the whole story... aldridge has also had to contend with good rebounders his whole career especially more recently one of the best ever in marcus camby. i agree that aldridge may not be a MUCH better rebounder but he plays with much more fire and intensity on the court and goes after the ball with reckless abandon... brook kinda just takes whats there

Haha, no he doesn't.

I'm a big LMA fan and watch a lot of Portland ball, he's an average rebounder at best.

He's not a better rebounder then Brook, or only this year.

xam2k7 wrote:also in the 3 games where camby has missed this year aldridge has averaged close to 15 rebounds... granted 3 games is a very small pool... but if u wanna talk numbers there it is

There what is?

He's still averaging around 8 a game because for every game he has with 15, he puts up another with 3.

No I think most should be available not all. I'd like to see us build around Brook and Favors everyone else can go though. While having a down year Brook still deserves a few more years before we go dumping him. If we do it now and he bounces back we will all be kicking ourselves.

Brook/Favors = Future (we can't give up on them)

Edit: I wouldn't mind hanging on to Morrow (in a 6th man role though)

vincecarter4pres wrote:

xam2k7 wrote:also in the 3 games where camby has missed this year aldridge has averaged close to 15 rebounds... granted 3 games is a very small pool... but if u wanna talk numbers there it is

There what is?

He's still averaging around 8 a game because for every game he has with 15, he puts up another with 3.

look, im not trying to get in an argument im just trying to get my point across. LMA is 4th in the league in dunks with 61 whereas brook is tied for 28th with 29 and if you look at the top of that list it is all guys that play with confidence and fire. Brook just doesn't want to dunk on anyone, and I think he has only dunked on one person this year and whether youre a fan of the dunk or not you gotta realize that only the players with confidence are the ones who call for the alley oops and drive to the hole to yam it on someones dome.

Yes maybe it is a bit hasty for me to make this thread but at the same time trading a 22 year old brook for a 25 year old LMA? I wouldnt be unhappy if we got another piece along with it

xam2k7 wrote:
look, im not trying to get in an argument im just trying to get my point across. LMA is 4th in the league in dunks with 61 whereas brook is tied for 28th with 29 and if you look at the top of that list it is all guys that play with confidence and fire. Brook just doesn't want to dunk on anyone, and I think he has only dunked on one person this year and whether youre a fan of the dunk or not you gotta realize that only the players with confidence are the ones who call for the alley oops and drive to the hole to yam it on someones dome.

Yes maybe it is a bit hasty for me to make this thread but at the same time trading a 22 year old brook for a 25 year old LMA? I wouldnt be unhappy if we got another piece along with it

Youre right and youre wrong. Brook is a bit soft and Ive mentioned in the past how annoying I get when he does those soft little touch backs at the rim that miss most of the time because the guy can barely jump. And his rebounding is a bit lackluster but he gets enough to remain close to elite at his position. Aldridge has the fire and intensity which is something else Ive mentioned this team badly needs. But hes not on Brooks level of overall talent. He doesnt have the offensive skill set of Brook and probably not much better on defense. But as you said in the last part if Brook was moved for Aldridge and something else I wouldnt be too upset, depending on what the other piece was.

Revolutionistt wrote:

xam2k7 wrote:
look, im not trying to get in an argument im just trying to get my point across. LMA is 4th in the league in dunks with 61 whereas brook is tied for 28th with 29 and if you look at the top of that list it is all guys that play with confidence and fire. Brook just doesn't want to dunk on anyone, and I think he has only dunked on one person this year and whether youre a fan of the dunk or not you gotta realize that only the players with confidence are the ones who call for the alley oops and drive to the hole to yam it on someones dome.

Yes maybe it is a bit hasty for me to make this thread but at the same time trading a 22 year old brook for a 25 year old LMA? I wouldnt be unhappy if we got another piece along with it

Youre right and youre wrong. Brook is a bit soft and Ive mentioned in the past how annoying I get when he does those soft little touch backs at the rim that miss most of the time because the guy can barely jump. And his rebounding is a bit lackluster but he gets enough to remain close to elite at his position. Aldridge has the fire and intensity which is something else Ive mentioned this team badly needs. But hes not on Brooks level of overall talent. He doesnt have the offensive skill set of Brook and probably not much better on defense. But as you said in the last part if Brook was moved for Aldridge and something else I wouldnt be too upset, depending on what the other piece was.

Actually, Brook can jump just fine. Even though he's a little stiff, he's pretty athletic for a guy his size.

I agree with both of you, Brook is not playing with fire or emotion. In his first one and a half seasons he seemed to have that. He had a mean streak and fire, but now it seems to be gone.

LMA has it, but he still isn't really anymore then where Brook used to be.

I will say this, if the deal was expanded in some form or another, I would be with you, I think I would trade Brook for LMA. It would have to be a deal where we got to dump Outlaw as the salary filler to make up the difference in their contracts and I would want something else coming in return, even if we had to send out a player like Harris as well.

The one thing I would have to be sure of though, is could Aldridge play center, or even more important, would he and the coaching staff be comfortable and embrace that change, as well as could he excel at that position?

I personally think he could. Sure he would have trouble with a select few such as Dwight Howard and Bogut, but honestly, who doesn't?

I do think that LMA and Favors could be a picture perfect fit together, with neither having a defined role or position between the 4 and 5 when they're on the floor together, simply switching off on matchups.

Again though, the problem with dealing Brook for a player like Aldridge lies in what our further moves are. If it was a deadline deal, we likely still wind up say top 8 in the draft and this draft is so big man heavy again, that if you are to deal Brook, it almost makes more sense to pick up an elite wing prospect and a just decent center for him.

But back to this deal...

Even if Portland is contemplating a full rebuild based on Roy's knees, Aldridge is not a player they really need to get rid of, although I would imagine they would be all ears in a Brook for LaMarcus swap under those circumstances.

Brook is a reliable post presence. Once he figures out how to handle double teams he'll be golden. Don't care about rebounding numbers or defensive awareness issues. The guy can flat out score inside. Brook isn't why we're losing games. Our problem is that we have one player who can attack the basket and he's also our only playmaker. That and we aren't hanging defenders on screens and we lack offensive depth.

All this winning attitude business is bollocks, as long as you're not an idiot or selfish you can win in team basketball with the right pieces. Brook might not be a franchise player but he can be an integral (and hard to come by) part of a winning team. God, how desperate were we for a post presence last decade?

Would the Nets have any interest in a deal revolving around Lopez/Outlaw for Kaman/Aminu? If not, what would the Clips need to add to sweeten the deal? The only untouchables would be Eric Gordon and obviously Blake Griffin.

SportsFan215 wrote:Would the Nets have any interest in a deal revolving around Lopez/Outlaw for Kaman/Aminu? If not, what would the Clips need to add to sweeten the deal? The only untouchables would be Eric Gordon and obviously Blake Griffin.

Haha, absolutely not.

Kaman is like what Brook would become if he got worse then his current play and didn't improve ever again and Aminu has Marvin Williams written all over him at best.

Obviously you wouldn't trade Griffin, but I think it would take something revolving around Gordon, eating Outlaw's contract for mainly expirings and a swap of the Clippers pick maybe top 2 or 3 protected for the Lakers pick and a future top 10 protected pick to even peak our FO's interest. I know that's an overpay, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense any other way for us IMO.

We'd be better off chugging along with the Melo pursuit and trying to land a guy like Chris Paul or Deron, even LMA while dumping some bad contracts for Brook and then attempting to sign Paul or Deron then some garbage like Kaman and Al Farouq.

Kaman is so terrible, his raw #'s semi-mask that.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

SportsFan215 wrote:Would the Nets have any interest in a deal revolving around Lopez/Outlaw for Kaman/Aminu? If not, what would the Clips need to add to sweeten the deal? The only untouchables would be Eric Gordon and obviously Blake Griffin.

Haha, absolutely not.

Kaman is like what Brook would become if he got worse then his current play and didn't improve ever again and Aminu has Marvin Williams written all over him at best.

Obviously you wouldn't trade Griffin, but I think it would take something revolving around Gordon, eating Outlaw's contract for mainly expirings and a swap of the Clippers pick maybe top 2 or 3 protected for the Lakers pick and a future top 10 protected pick to even peak our FO's interest. I know that's an overpay, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense any other way for us IMO.

We'd be better off chugging along with the Melo pursuit and trying to land a guy like Chris Paul or Deron, even LMA while dumping some bad contracts for Brook and then attempting to sign Paul or Deron then some garbage like Kaman and Al Farouq.

Kaman is so terrible, his raw #'s semi-mask that.

Not only is Kaman not very good but the guy has only played in like 470 of the 650 games hes been in the league for. I agree that the only way is if we got eric gordon, al farouq and probably deandre jordan plus picks for outlaw and lopez + some picks... but like i said earlier id rather have LMA and/or Nene as the centerpieces of the trades before gordon and al farouq

I think Brook is fine and progressing nicely for a back to the basket center who isn't out there going for 30. I kno i'm going to get killed for this but Duncan would have struggled too going to a rebuilding team. He had DRob to mentor and play next to.
Brook is going to be a good 20/10 player with great help defense thats why I would love to see a trade with the Grizzles assuming we could just give up favors/harris/picks
Farmer
Mayo
Outlaw
Lopez
Gasol
If Brook could anchor the defense through his help defense and let another big go one on one with offensive post player we'll be great and ready for playoff basketball.
Brook just isn't aggressive enough on either side of the ball to dominate but solid all-around(like Timmy)