David West?

[BrooklynNetsFan]

Even though I don't normally like to talk about players from other teams...I was wondering what you guys think about this David West article. David West is a really good player but is he that much of a upgrade over Kris Humphries for possibly $5-$10 Million more? If we sign him do we also pay Hump this upcoming offseason?

[Netaman]

copying the post below here from the redbuildation thread.

Bottomline I think West is worth exploring. He's not perfect but he is a good player. He's a slightly lesser version of Boozer with similar amount of wear and tear on his body. If we could get him for significantly less $$ then Boozer he would be a very worthwhile addition. Not a great defender but he has a good BBIQ, he's a really good scorer, and he's shown that he's pretty clutch.

If it takes the same amount of money it took CHI to get Boozer (80 MM) then it's a easy pass. Considering the economic climate this offseason compared to last and the financial state of his current team I think there's a good chance he ends up with a lot less.

Interesting article Today on West from Dave D. Seems like he's going to out of NO no matter what and it's only a matter of where he goes. Some interesting quotes from him about his first priority being to go to a team that's a winner, even at his own expense financially. As of now I think OKC and Denver are the only 2 playoff teams out there that are going to have cap space this offseason.

5. So how do you feel about the Jersey/Brooklyn option?
I think that team, obviously, is a lot more interesting than they were. They were so young before they made that deal, and nobody saw that deal coming. I don’t know. I know it’s a team that has some (cap) space and a need, but it’s ... like I said, when the time comes, we’ll see what’s out there. Again, at this point in my career, money won’t really be the number one (criterion).

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2011/0 ... david.html

I'm not all for David West, especially if it's anything more then 3-4 years, however, the more I look at it, the more I'm against Nene as well. Has anyone looked at his playoff career averages? Is it really that smart to pay 10MM+ for a guy who's average 10/6 in 31 career playoff starts? And it's not just his early years dragging him down. In the last 2 playoffs he's appeared in he started 21/21 games and averaged 11.5/6.5 in 33mpg. For those numbers you'd better be getting Ben Wallace in his prime defensively.

West on the other hand is a poor man's Carlos Boozer. He's not ideal but he's without a doubt the best scorer available this offseason as he obviously has a much better track record then Randolph, especially in the playoffs. If he would be willing to sign here for something like 4 years/48 MM (4MM raise over what he's making now) we'd have to think about that.

Again, if we're going to end up going after Dwight in 2012 we are going to end up trading part of our PF/C combination in one way or another. West would actually be a really good compliment with Dwight and Deron - and fill in a lot of the skills vacated if Lopez gets traded.

My ideal plan still doesn't include West, but he is definitely moving himself into consideration with Nene.

[8 Mile Ilic]

For the contract he's going to try and command I would stay far away from West. He'll be 31 by the time next season starts, isn't a great defender, and is poised to become more and more of a jump shooter as his career winds down.

West would yield short term benefits but it's not worth the long-term cost.

[BrooklynNetsFan]

So is Humphries the long term answer at PF? He is having a Breakout year, but how much money will he command in the offseason? And will he continue to improve if he gets paid?

[JoseRizal]

I OK with West, especially if money is not a big factor. We're trying to build a championship team here and he knows that. He will bring the additional scoring production as well as spread the floor for Brook...

[Netaman]

For the contract he's going to try and command I would stay far away from West. He'll be 31 by the time next season starts, isn't a great defender, and is poised to become more and more of a jump shooter as his career winds down.

West would yield short term benefits but it's not worth the long-term cost.

If he tries to command Boozer/Lee money I agree with you, but I think his riskiness is being overstated.

IMO age is a lot less important then games/minutes played. West is about 14 months older then Boozer but he's started about 100 less games and played 2,000 less minutes over his career.

I wouldn't want to give him more then 3-4 years but he's definitely worth more $/year then Nene.

This team is going to have to improve somewhere this offseason and if all things are equal David West has proven a lot more as a player then Chandler, Green, Nene, and Randolph - especially in the playoffs.

If we aren't going to pay for a true scorer at PF we might as well stick with Humphries and then sign a solid vet to compete with him. If West and Nene are both unreasonable in their demands I'd be very happy to see if Kmart was interested in coming back. Let him share minutes with Humphries and get the proper amount of rest to stay healthy. His attitude is exactly what this team could use. Obviously would have to be on a 1-2 year deal at a reasonable $$ figure (maybe 6 MM/year?).

[Jersey Generals]

Double post.

[Jersey Generals]

I wouldn't want to give him more then 3-4 years but he's definitely worth more $/year then Nene.

No, no, he isn't, and to say so is absurd.

[Netaman]

I wouldn't want to give him more then 3-4 years but he's definitely worth more $/year then Nene.

No, no, he isn't, and to say so is absurd.

please tell me what I'm missing here?

2009 Playoffs
GP/GS - 16/16
MPG - 32.8
PPG - 11.5
FG % - 54%
RPG - 7.5
BPG - .6
APG - 2.6

2010 Playoffs
GP/GS - 5/5
MPG - 33.8
PPG - 11.4
FG % - 62%
RPG - 5.8
BPG - .2
APG - 2.2

Obviously he is a very efficient player in terms of TOs and FG% but are we really advocating paying 10+ MM per year for a guy with career playoff averages of 10 & 6?

Numbers never tell the entire story but those are some pretty bad numbers. Luis Scola got 47 MM last year and he has started 19 playoff games in his career averaging 14/9 in 33 MPG. How is Nene worth more then that?

[NyCeEvO]

So is Humphries the long term answer at PF? He is having a Breakout year, but how much money will he command in the offseason? And will he continue to improve if he gets paid?

It depends who is playing at center. Your PF needs to compliment your C. Look at the title teams of San Antonio, Detroit, Boston, LA of recent years. Each team had a big man duo that complimented each other unless one of the big man was so dominant that it doesn't really matter who you put next to them.

SA: Duncan & Robinson/other centers- Duncan was absolute beast and even though Robinson was great, I'm still confident that the Spurs could have (and would have) won the title with a lesser talented C than Robinson). Duncan was just so good that it really didn't matter who was next to him and the evidence of this is found in that the Spurs won two more championships without Robinson next to Duncan.

Detroit: 'Sheed & Wallace- Rasheed was a stretch 4, who could shoot the three and post up. He had really good post defense because of his length but you couldn't look for him to get a ton of rebounds and or block a ton of shots. Lo and behold, Ben Wallace. An athletic beast at the time who (even though was 6' 9") would block a ton of shots and grab a ton of rebounds. They combined to be a really good front court duo that complimented each other.

Boston: KG & Perkins- Even though Perkins was young and KG was the star PF, Perkins role was important on the defensive end. KG did all of the scoring but he needed a defensive C that could really lock up the paint. Perkins isn't a supreme talent but sometimes you only need a little bit to make you great.

LA: Pau is the all-world offensive PF but it's the length of the defenders in Bynum and Gasol that really clog up the lane and deflect shots. Bynum has been injured during the past two title runs but again, you don't need much if you have one that's supremely talented.

You can Hump keep if you think you can get Howard because he does so much. However, ideally you want a stretch 4 that can make a jumpshot on the offensive end and can play solid defense. Orlando made the finals when Rashard was the stretch 4 who could spread the floor, draw out the opposing PF to the 3pt line, and leave Howard down low with only the opposing C, who on 90% of the nights he can destroy.

For Lopez, Hump is fine because he gets the rebounds Lopez doesn't get. However, if we're really looking to compete for a championship and have big man identity, you're going to need a great defensive player to compliment Lopez or if you get Howard, you need a stretch 4 that can play solid team defense.

[Netaman]

Also I'm not professing to be an expert on Nene. I've seen maybe 15 Nuggets games the past few years. Every time I've seen him play, especially against us, he has looked really good. When I looked at his numbers they were surprisingly low, especially since he's not known as a great defensive player.

[8 Mile Ilic]

Nene is a respectable defensive player though... He's much more physical than David West and he's got quick hands that enable him to snipe at the ball.

[jeff1624]

Nene SHOULD be the first target in free agency. He's younger and already better than West. He'd also have more value if we want to go after Howard in 2012.

[Netaman]

Nene is a respectable defensive player though... He's much more physical than David West and he's got quick hands that enable him to snipe at the ball.

If it's going to cost more then 10MM/year (Nene made 11.3 MM this year) for a respectable and active defensive player we might as well keep Humphries and spend the money elsewhere.

IMO West and Nene are both flawed players who aren't worth more then 11MM/year. Neither is a star and both would be very good #3 guys. Their PER's are exactly the same. Nene is 3 years younger which is nice but he's done nothing in the playoffs.

Just trying to understand why there's near unanimous vitriole towards West and unanimous praise of Nene. West's numbers are not declining and he hasn't played heavy minutes since Scott left. He's a skill guy who has never relied on athleticism so I'm not sure what's suggesting that he is going to fall off a cliff.

[8 Mile Ilic]

Nene SHOULD be the first target in free agency. He's younger and already better than West. He'd also have more value if we want to go after Howard in 2012.

Honestly while I didn't want him before... I think Jeff Green should be the player the Nets go after first in free agency.

While I know there's probably some concern as to whether he's a four or three the more I think about it the less reasons I can find for why Jeff Green CAN NOT play small forward, add in the fact that his value is set to take a hit with his diminished role on the Celtics...

The team that signs Jeff Green this offseason could be looking at a potential bargain.

(Only real downside to the Jeff Green situation is that he's a RFA )

[mack69]

Nene SHOULD be the first target in free agency. He's younger and already better than West. He'd also have more value if we want to go after Howard in 2012.

To me the toughness factor is impressing me concerning Nene, we need that for the Celtics. If i'm BK thats the benchmark the Celtics can we compete with that team. in fact with them moving out Perkins they wont be that difficult to beat.

West is a good player just not my preference.

[vincecarter4pres]

Ugh, David West and Jeff Green.

No and no.

I understand West doesn't necessarily have a ton of mileage on him for his age, but he's still going to be 31 next season and is going to be looking at a4 or probably 5 year deal for 8 figures per.

No thanks.

And Jeff freakin Green?

Nene or Tyson Chandler are the only bigs I look at in free agency, better options will be out there in trade any other way.

[Netaman]

Ugh, David West and Jeff Green.

No and no.

I understand West doesn't necessarily have a ton of mileage on him for his age, but he's still going to be 31 next season and is going to be looking at a4 or probably 5 year deal for 8 figures per.

No thanks.

And Jeff freakin Green?

Nene or Tyson Chandler are the only bigs I look at in free agency, better options will be out there in trade any other way.

How much would you be willing to pay Nene?

[vincecarter4pres]

Ugh, David West and Jeff Green.

No and no.

I understand West doesn't necessarily have a ton of mileage on him for his age, but he's still going to be 31 next season and is going to be looking at a4 or probably 5 year deal for 8 figures per.

No thanks.

And Jeff freakin Green?

Nene or Tyson Chandler are the only bigs I look at in free agency, better options will be out there in trade any other way.

How much would you be willing to pay Nene?

If the CBA is similar? 5 years for 55 would probably be my max.

I think he's worth it.

He's actually a guy with very little mileage on him for his age and those playoff numbers have to be taken in context.

It's not like he was out there chucking up jumpers and missing bunnies, he was efficient, Denver just didn't look to him much and let Melo chuck away.

I mean he's not going to be a 20 &10 guy though, that's not his game, he's not a go to guy and honestly he's not a great rebounder in the first place.

Nene is really a player you have to see to appreciate though.

Deceptively athletic, tough, physical, smart, great passer, intimidating, mobile, passionate, very good defender, especially man to man and strong, dudes a bull, his intangibles are very good and he loves mixing it up.

[Netaman]

Ugh, David West and Jeff Green.

No and no.

I understand West doesn't necessarily have a ton of mileage on him for his age, but he's still going to be 31 next season and is going to be looking at a4 or probably 5 year deal for 8 figures per.

No thanks.

And Jeff freakin Green?

Nene or Tyson Chandler are the only bigs I look at in free agency, better options will be out there in trade any other way.

How much would you be willing to pay Nene?

If the CBA is similar? 5 years for 55 would probably be my max.

I think he's worth it.

He's actually a guy with very little mileage on him for his age and those playoff numbers have to be taken in context.

It's not like he was out there chucking up jumpers and missing bunnies, he was efficient, Denver just didn't look to him much and let Melo chuck away.

I mean he's not going to be a 20 &10 guy though, that's not his game, he's not a go to guy and honestly he's not a great rebounder in the first place.

Nene is really a player you have to see to appreciate though.

Deceptively athletic, tough, physical, smart, great passer, intimidating, mobile, passionate, very good defender, especially man to man and strong, dudes a bull, his intangibles are very good and he loves mixing it up.

5/55 is a price I think I would be fine with for either guy. In fact I think either guy would be a steal at that price.

If it's West I'd prefer 4/44 or at minimum a partially guaranteed 5th year but IMO that's a good deal either way. I know everyone seems worried about West but he's not a guy that relies on athleticism, he relies on his high BBIQ. He's also a really good passer and he's performed in the playoffs and hit big shots.

Considering the MLE is about 6 MM and Hump is likely to cost us at least that much per year, I'd much rather upgrade the position significantly with either of the guys above at that price.