New Trade Proposal

[NyCeEvO]

This post will be divided into sections. If it's too long for you to read look at the sections in bold for a quick synopsis and then skip down to the proposal.


Lopez' Skill Level
Half of us like Lopez, half of us hate him, all of us would love for him to be a part of the base package for Howard, but at this point that is still a pipedream.

We have two objectives that must be executed and maintained at the same time:
1) Get this team good enough for D-Will to sign an extension
2) Leave enough room in salary cap space for a max contract.

The most valuable commodity that we have to trade is Brook Lopez, who is talented but definitely has no shortage of holes in his game. The #1 thing that pisses me off about Lopez is that he takes mid-range jumpers and boxes out other people so that others can get the rebound instead of himself. (I can't tell you how many times I've seen him box out so that Hump can get the rebound when he should be able to box out and get the rebound himself.) He's got some post moves that are slow but somewhat effective. And another major deficiency Lopez has is court awareness on both offense (which prevents him from accurately passing out of the double team) and on defense (which gets him to pick up stupid fouls and prohibits him from blocking shots).

If you're going to be a 7 footer taking jump shots, you better be like Dirk Nowitzki, who's mobile and has an excellent mid-to-long range game. As a center, your first priority is to rebound, block shots, and score in the paint. All of these things give your team a presence down low. If your center isn't doing those things then in reality he's not doing what's most important for his team as a center. Trust me, I like the fact that Brook can hit the occasional 15 footer but that should not be his primary position on offense. He needs to be banging down low. If he's not doing what a big man is supposed to be doing, it would help your team more to do get a guy who does bring that extra element. For example, look at Andrew Bynum when he tried to be an offensive presence, the Lakers were good but not great. After the allstar break, Phil Jackson had Bynum focus strictly on being big in the lane on defense (i.e. putting his hands up to get in the way of shooters, boxing out, blocking shots, and rebounding aggressively). As a result, the Lakers are 17-2 since the Allstar break and people have been saying that Bynum (not Kobe) is the reason why the Lakers have been playing so good.

All that is to say is that we need Lopez to be a rebounding, defensive-minded center first BEFORE being an offensive presence. As we all know, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. In the playoffs, you need defense from your big men and if we're depending on Lopez to give that to us, we're in trouble.

Howard's Value is Too High
Now, many of us have used Lopez as a part of a base package for Howard, but we all recognize that Howard's value to Orlando is ridiculously high. Even when Melo was going to be a free agent this summer, we almost gave away our entire team to get him and the Knicks actually did. If you think Howard's going to come at any cheaper price, you have another thing coming. Whatever team he's traded to would surely be gutted and I highly doubt that he would sign an extension with that team (which is another reason why I think Howard actually might not get traded at all even though Orlando has a chance to lose him). Melo didn't want to sign with us because we would have nothing left. There will be nothing left of whatever team gets Howard. What I'm saying is that if we're smart about it, we don't trade for Howard, we let him come as a free agent.

We need to focus on securing D-Will before trying to get a second star and end up losing out on both. Plus, if Outlaw isn't traded this summer, we'd try to include him in any Howard deal to help make salaries match. Outlaw is an instant shutdown of any trade talks. If we're good enough, we can sign Howard outright rather than give up so much to hope that he'll re-sign/extend with us.

QUICK SUMMARY OF LAST TWO PARAGRAPHS:
1) Lopez is not our center to lead us to the promised land. We need a center that is at least as skilled on defense as he is on offense even if his offense is not as good as Lopez.
2)Howard would cost too much via trade to get, even with Lopez as the main base package (e.g. see Melo deal).

THE DEAL
New Jersey receives:
Danny Granger
Roy Hibbert

Indiana receives:
Brook Lopez
Jordan Farmar
Damion James
Johan Petro
2011 1st round pick
2012 2nd round pick

Indiana's Logic: Indiana isn't winning any time soon and they know that. Overall, Lopez is better than Hibbert and is 2 years younger. He'd pair up nicely with Hansbrough who plays the banger PF role for them. Danny Granger is soon to be 28 and I'm sure would like to move to a better team soon. Indiana could go completely young Collinson, Paul George (who's becoming more and more the SF the Pacers like), Hansbrough, and Lopez. Insert a solid PG and that could instantly be a low playoff team. Also, instead of resigning Hibbert in 2012 and adding another big salary along with Granger's (thus prohibiting them from easily acquiring more young cheap talent in the future), they only have to give Lopez the equivalent of Granger's contract or less to keep him after 2012. They save money and still remain talented in the future.

Nets Logic: When given the choice to 'Go Hard or Go Home, Proky said slammed down on the Go Hard button and said, "I want championship now! It's good for Russia, it's good for Brooklyn, we beat Knicks, everyone gets free vodka!"

Seriously, we're in win now mode. Acquiring Granger gives us a proven SF right now on a decent contract. Also, even though we lose offense and some youth by giving up Lopez for Hibbert, we temporarily gain on defense. Hibbert is a little taller than Brook and plays more like a traditional center. The good thing is that we only lose $2 million in salary cap space with this trade and we'd still be $17 million under the cap even though we still have Outlaw. Btw, Hibbert is RFA in 2012 too

Our starting lineup would be:
D-Will
Morrow
Granger
?
Hibbert
Bench: Outlaw + Gaines

If you fill out the roster with expirings and/or small deals, we have a playoff team with a true two headed monster in D-Will and Granger. If Hibbert gets better, then that's even better.

However, obviously if we're rocking a 5th-6th seed in to the playoffs, Howard's going to notice that:
1) we're already a good playoff team without him
2) we have enough money to sign him
3) we could have the best version of a big 3 in which the best players are your PG, SF, and C.

2012: If Deron decided to not sign the extension, we'd still have Granger even though I'm sure he'd be happy with Granger.
However, if Deron does sign the extension, two great players are already heading to Brooklyn and all Dwight would have to do is sign on the dotted line as a free agent.

Our Big 3: D-Will, Granger, D.Howard.

What do you guys think?

(I'm writing this very quickly because I need to go, so if there are a lot of grammatical errors I'll come back later to fix them.)

[8 Mile Ilic]

I like the guy but after his comments this year... Hibbert is the definition of soft until proven otherwise.

[Jersey Generals]

I don't think there is going to be the cap room to sign Howard after getting Granger without losing Outlaw.

[DarkXaero]

Hell no.

[NyCeEvO]

Hell no.

Care to expound upon such a declarative statement?

[NyCeEvO]

I don't think there is going to be the cap room to sign Howard after getting Granger without losing Outlaw.

We gave up enough in salary to do the deal so I don't see why they're wouldn't be enough space. Right now, we have more than enough cap room to sign a max contract and after this proposed deal, we would still have enough for a max contract since we're only losing $2 million in space. No matter what the new CBA is, we'd still have enough for a max contract.

[DarkXaero]

Hell no.

Care to expound upon such a declarative statement?

You want trade a soft center for another soft, less talented center? And Granger, who is a chucker averaging 20 PPG on an amazing 42%. And no, his efficiency isn't low because he's on a bad team. His efficiency is low because his shot selection is terrible.

[Jersey Generals]

We gave up enough in salary to do the deal so I don't see why they're wouldn't be enough space. Right now, we have more than enough cap room to sign a max contract and after this proposed deal, we would still have enough for a max contract since we're only losing $2 million in space. No matter what the new CBA is, we'd still have enough for a max contract.

It has nothing to do with space this summer, it has to do with space next summer. Granger's salary goes up to 13 million in 2012.

Deron= 15 million (estimate)
Granger= 13 million
Morrow= 4 million
Outlaw= 7 million

That's 39 million for just 4 players. The Nets would need to sign all vet min players to round out the roster in order to have max space for Dwight in 2012, assuming a 58 million cap.

[NyCeEvO]

DarkXaero, Well, that's a better explanation than a two word statement. The point of the trade is not really who we're getting to replace Lopez at the center position. It would be having Lopez-lite while still being able to get Granger, while keeping enough space to entertain signing a max contract in 2012 (i.e. D12). I'm just trying to think of a way to improve the team without giving up that much cap space. Personally, I still like the idea of trading for Mayo and signing Chandler but I was just giving this a shot as well. Have any alternate ideas?

[NyCeEvO]

We gave up enough in salary to do the deal so I don't see why they're wouldn't be enough space. Right now, we have more than enough cap room to sign a max contract and after this proposed deal, we would still have enough for a max contract since we're only losing $2 million in space. No matter what the new CBA is, we'd still have enough for a max contract.

It has nothing to do with space this summer, it has to do with space next summer. Granger's salary goes up to 13 million in 2012.

Deron= 15 million (estimate)
Granger= 13 million
Morrow= 4 million
Outlaw= 7 million

That's 39 million for just 4 players. The Nets would need to sign all vet min players to round out the roster in order to have max space for Dwight in 2012, assuming a 58 million cap.

Oh, you know what I did. I counted D-Will as signing as a FA with us still having bird rights. I didn't think of that. Good catch...back to the drawing board.

[Rockice_8]

Roy Hibbert is terrible. I want no part of him. I'll keep Lopez and his problems rather than Hibbert and his even more problems.

DarkXaero (while just a ballboy) put it exactly right.

We just have to build around D-Will and Lopez this year and hope for the best. Maybe we S&T Lopez/Outlaw in 2012 to free up space with young players and picks so we can outright sign Dwight should the Magic risk losing him for nothing. If we have to trade away players for cheaper talent to free space we can worry about that when 2012 comes. Until then we need to drop Petro/Outlaw and bring in talent.

[DarkXaero]

DarkXaero, Well, that's a better explanation than a two word statement. The point of the trade is not really who we're getting to replace Lopez at the center position. It would be having Lopez-lite while still being able to get Granger, while keeping enough space to entertain signing a max contract in 2012 (i.e. D12). I'm just trying to think of a way to improve the team without giving up that much cap space. Personally, I still like the idea of trading for Mayo and signing Chandler but I was just giving this a shot as well. Have any alternate ideas?

Sorry about that, I wanted to post more in the first post but I was in a hurry. I know that you're trying to get two good starters for one but IMO, they just aren't good enough to give up all that depth for.

[NyCeEvO]

DarkXaero, Well, that's a better explanation than a two word statement. The point of the trade is not really who we're getting to replace Lopez at the center position. It would be having Lopez-lite while still being able to get Granger, while keeping enough space to entertain signing a max contract in 2012 (i.e. D12). I'm just trying to think of a way to improve the team without giving up that much cap space. Personally, I still like the idea of trading for Mayo and signing Chandler but I was just giving this a shot as well. Have any alternate ideas?

Sorry about that, I wanted to post more in the first post but I was in a hurry. I know that you're trying to get two good starters for one but IMO, they just aren't good enough to give up all that depth for.

Ok, no problem. Figuring a good plan for this offseason has been pretty hard. This year's FA is the complete opposite of last year and yet we're trying to turn around our franchise when the FA pool isn't that good.

[ChampionRed]

I'm sorry but we're better off keeping Lopez than trading for Hibbert-even with Granger. Lopez is a good player. He's 23 and he's already a great offensive center. He's had a down year but he will bounce back. Granger is injury prone and makes too much in the latter years of his contract. Pau Gasol isn't a defensive player but he's still an elite big man that helps his team win. Once the Nets get a tough player to start next to Lopez, it'll be fine. Humphries has played that role this year but if the Nets want to compete they need to sign a better big man as well.

[bobbyc]

I haven't given up on brook lopez like everyone else on Realgm.

He is still 22 and playing better than a lot of all stars at that age. Also he is having a relatively mediocre year so his trade value isn't as high. Just wait till he has this summer to work on his strength and quickness and I think you will see improvement.

His athleticism is his biggest obstacle to being a great player, like it was when he was drafted. As he gets stronger and quicker he will become better. LMA attributes his amazing year this year to becoming stronger and finishing strong around the rim. and it took him till like 26 to get to get that strength. Brook's career I think will be similar to his where it will take a while to hit his prime. So, I think his potential is still really high.

The only way I would give him up is if we landed a star.

[CoolKids]

Hibbert is better then lopez. No way the pacers give up the franchise guy and a better center for lopez and what would end up being a mediocre 1st rounder

[Rockice_8]

Hibbert is better then lopez. No way the pacers give up the franchise guy and a better center for lopez and what would end up being a mediocre 1st rounder

[DarkXaero]

Hibbert is better then lopez. No way the pacers give up the franchise guy and a better center for lopez and what would end up being a mediocre 1st rounder

Pretty much my response to that post.

[NyCeEvO]

I haven't given up on brook lopez like everyone else on Realgm.

He is still 22 and playing better than a lot of all stars at that age. Also he is having a relatively mediocre year so his trade value isn't as high. Just wait till he has this summer to work on his strength and quickness and I think you will see improvement.

His athleticism is his biggest obstacle to being a great player, like it was when he was drafted. As he gets stronger and quicker he will become better. LMA attributes his amazing year this year to becoming stronger and finishing strong around the rim. and it took him till like 26 to get to get that strength. Brook's career I think will be similar to his where it will take a while to hit his prime. So, I think his potential is still really high.

The only way I would give him up is if we landed a star.

I think people rag on him too much too. I don't mind giving him another year either. Unless he gets injured, this is probably the lowest his value will be for a long time.

[NyCeEvO]

Hibbert is better then lopez. No way the pacers give up the franchise guy and a better center for lopez and what would end up being a mediocre 1st rounder

Pretty much my response to that post.

Hey, at least I said Lopez was better than Hibbert lol.