RealGM

Let's say we trade Brook, Humphries, Morrow + Picks & $

That leaves us with:

Howard $17.9 million
Williams $16.4 million
Outlaw $7 million
Farmar $4 million
Petro $3.3 million
James $1.2 million
Gaines $0.9 million
3 Roster holds $1.5 million

According to a recent Netsdaily article, we have $21.5M in expirings and with Hump resigning that leaves us with about $14M.

Would we be able to sign a PF & SG or does the Dwight trade limit that?

That's a mighty big assumption, friend.

And if Howard is traded, either his friend Hedo or Gilbert are coming along with him, meaning whatever is left after the deal is the team, outside of vet min players.

Rather get howard in free agency. This way we can sign and trade lopez for a goof sg or sf.

Jersey Generals wrote:That's a mighty big assumption, friend.

And if Howard is traded, either his friend Hedo or Gilbert are coming along with him, meaning whatever is left after the deal is the team, outside of vet min players.

Yea, if Magic are trading him, they would want the other team to have one or more of their terrible contracts.

DarkXaero wrote:

Jersey Generals wrote:That's a mighty big assumption, friend.

And if Howard is traded, either his friend Hedo or Gilbert are coming along with him, meaning whatever is left after the deal is the team, outside of vet min players.

Yea, if Magic are trading him, they would want the other team to have one or more of their terrible contracts.

And although I agree with this sentiment, here's some food for thought...

Denver wanted one of their bad contracts shipped out with Melo and I feel we have to assume Utah wanted Okur shipped out with Deron, but neither happened.

I'm starting to think whoever winds up with Dwight might wind up only with Dwight, unless they're sending out a bad contract close in dollar amount themselves.

LAL literally cannot afford to take on a guy like Arenas and will probably scoff at a Hedo for Odom swap.

NJ realizes no matter how important it is to attain Dwight if it's possible, they will be handicapped into a bunch of vet min guys, Deron, Dwight and either Arenas or Hedo and will not be fond of the idea when they can instead build a roster around the Big 2.

Chicago will do it, but only in the sense they send out Deng's putrid contract for a worse one like Arenas or Hedo.

Honest to god, I'm really starting to think these guys won't be included.

Dwight is Dwight and so people are going to tell me I'm crazy, delusional, or even arrogant, but contracts like Arenas and Hedo are just absolutely crippling when you have no other means to assemble a lineup, so I'm really not sure anyone will take them on as long as they still have the upper hand, such as cap room to sign Dwight outright in free agency in 2012.

IF we are somehow able to acquire Dwight Howard, we can sign one of you guys here at realgm to fill in at sf. I would be good with that, because we would have ACQUIRED DWIGHT HOWARD.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:

Jersey Generals wrote:That's a mighty big assumption, friend.

And if Howard is traded, either his friend Hedo or Gilbert are coming along with him, meaning whatever is left after the deal is the team, outside of vet min players.

Yea, if Magic are trading him, they would want the other team to have one or more of their terrible contracts.

And although I agree with this sentiment, here's some food for thought...

Denver wanted one of their bad contracts shipped out with Melo and I feel we have to assume Utah wanted Okur shipped out with Deron, but neither happened.

I'm starting to think whoever winds up with Dwight might wind up only with Dwight, unless they're sending out a bad contract close in dollar amount themselves.

LAL literally cannot afford to take on a guy like Arenas and will probably scoff at a Hedo for Odom swap.

NJ realizes no matter how important it is to attain Dwight if it's possible, they will be handicapped into a bunch of vet min guys, Deron, Dwight and either Arenas or Hedo and will not be fond of the idea when they can instead build a roster around the Big 2.

Chicago will do it, but only in the sense they send out Deng's putrid contract for a worse one like Arenas or Hedo.

Honest to god, I'm really starting to think these guys won't be included.

Dwight is Dwight and so people are going to tell me I'm crazy, delusional, or even arrogant, but contracts like Arenas and Hedo are just absolutely crippling when you have no other means to assemble a lineup, so I'm really not sure anyone will take them on as long as they still have the upper hand, such as cap room to sign Dwight outright in free agency in 2012.

Well Denver didn't really have any bad contracts. (I guess Harrington would be the closest)

If they take Outlaw for either Arenas or Hedo, that wouldn't be a terrible deal.

That's sort of the point.

They wanted Harrington gone, and to a lesser extent, Birdman and even that didn't fly.

And I fully understand Dwight **** on Melo as a player, but compare Hedo and Arenas to a contract like Harrington, Birdman, or hell, Mehmet Okur.

True. I'm guessing they're trying to maximize the value they get in return for a star player. Bad contracts can always be lived out or sometimes even surprisingly traded (Hedo), but gaining assets is tough. Since teams trading away the superstar are most likely going for a rebuild, a couple of years with bad salary isn't a terrible thing. I'm guessing Jazz would've lost a couple of picks at least if they had to include Memo.

In the case of Dwight, I'm guessing Orlando will go for a full rebuild, but who knows for sure? I still think an Outlaw/minimum asset for Hedo swap would be good though. There's three starters there.

vincecarter4pres wrote:That's sort of the point.

They wanted Harrington gone, and to a lesser extent, Birdman and even that didn't fly.

And I fully understand Dwight **** on Melo as a player, but compare Hedo and Arenas to a contract like Harrington, Birdman, or hell, Mehmet Okur.

This.

Think back to every superstar trade in the last decade or so. Whether it be Shaq to Miami, TMac, to Houston, Jason Kidd to Dallas, Iverson to Denver, Garnett and Allen to Boston, Vince Carter (to NJ and to ORL), Gasol to the Lakers, Carmelo and Deron Williams, etc.

What do they all have in common? That the team trading the superstar was not able to dump a garbage contract as part of the deal, not even a Harrington/Birdman level contract (let alone Hedo or Arenas level). Often times the pure quantity of contracts make it nearly impossible to make a trade fit. In addition, if you are trading a superstar, you have to get maximum talent back. You can't greatly compromise the value just to dump a contract.

The one exception to this rule was Marbury to the Knicks (took Penny Hardaway), but it should be noted that the prospect/youth return was marginal. Phoenix got two picks and B-rate stiffs like Marcej Lampe. The picks were #16 in 2004 (Kirk Snyder) and pick #9 in 2010 (Gordon Hayward). The only reason the second pick became a lottery pick was because of how pathetic the Knicks were for 5-6 years.

I fully understand that considering age/position/skill that Dwight might have more value than any of the examples above, so I won't say its impossible. But history certainly doesn't suggest that the Mavs will be able to dump a Hedo or Arenas.

The other exception, ironically, is the VC to NJ trade.

Bad contracts in tow...

vincecarter4pres wrote:The other exception, ironically, is the VC to NJ trade.

Bad contracts in tow...

Not really. They were all expiring and needed to match VC's salary.

vincecarter4pres wrote:The other exception, ironically, is the VC to NJ trade.

Bad contracts in tow...

Vince to NJ isn't the only exception to that one (Lakers took the corpse of Brian Grant in the Shaq trade). You could argue there were a few bad contracts involved in the TMac trade, but considering that was more of a vet for vet trade, it probably isn't a good comparable anyway.

This is another reason, why making these type of deals worth with junk attached (especially 8-figure junk like Hedo or Arenas) is nearly impossible.

deviljets7 wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:The other exception, ironically, is the VC to NJ trade.

Bad contracts in tow...

Vince to NJ isn't the only exception to that one (Lakers took the corpse of Brian Grant in the Shaq trade). You could argue there were a few bad contracts involved in the TMac trade, but considering that was more of a vet for vet trade, it probably isn't a good comparable anyway.

This is another reason, why making these type of deals worth with junk attached (especially 8-figure junk like Hedo or Arenas) is nearly impossible.

In the Brian Grant/Shaq scenario it was reversed. Lakers gave up the superstar and HAD to take Grant's terrible contract to make the salaries match. Shaq was due something like 30 mil that season. SO I don't think that's applicable here.

jeff1624 wrote:

deviljets7 wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:The other exception, ironically, is the VC to NJ trade.

Bad contracts in tow...

Vince to NJ isn't the only exception to that one (Lakers took the corpse of Brian Grant in the Shaq trade). You could argue there were a few bad contracts involved in the TMac trade, but considering that was more of a vet for vet trade, it probably isn't a good comparable anyway.

This is another reason, why making these type of deals worth with junk attached (especially 8-figure junk like Hedo or Arenas) is nearly impossible.

In the Brian Grant/Shaq scenario it was reversed. Lakers gave up the superstar and HAD to take Grant's terrible contract to make the salaries match. Shaq was due something like 30 mil that season. SO I don't think that's applicable here.

I think we're mixing some things up here. In neither Vince trade (to NJ or to ORL) was Vince traded with bad contracts. In the trade from TOR to NJ he was trade for bad contracts (most notably Zo). Admittedly it is a much smaller scale than the Briant Grant/Shaq deal because Grant was making like $13 million per.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:

Jersey Generals wrote:That's a mighty big assumption, friend.

And if Howard is traded, either his friend Hedo or Gilbert are coming along with him, meaning whatever is left after the deal is the team, outside of vet min players.

Yea, if Magic are trading him, they would want the other team to have one or more of their terrible contracts.

And although I agree with this sentiment, here's some food for thought...

Denver wanted one of their bad contracts shipped out with Melo and I feel we have to assume Utah wanted Okur shipped out with Deron, but neither happened.

I'm starting to think whoever winds up with Dwight might wind up only with Dwight, unless they're sending out a bad contract close in dollar amount themselves.

LAL literally cannot afford to take on a guy like Arenas and will probably scoff at a Hedo for Odom swap.

NJ realizes no matter how important it is to attain Dwight if it's possible, they will be handicapped into a bunch of vet min guys, Deron, Dwight and either Arenas or Hedo and will not be fond of the idea when they can instead build a roster around the Big 2.

Chicago will do it, but only in the sense they send out Deng's putrid contract for a worse one like Arenas or Hedo.

Honest to god, I'm really starting to think these guys won't be included.

Dwight is Dwight and so people are going to tell me I'm crazy, delusional, or even arrogant, but contracts like Arenas and Hedo are just absolutely crippling when you have no other means to assemble a lineup, so I'm really not sure anyone will take them on as long as they still have the upper hand, such as cap room to sign Dwight outright in free agency in 2012.

NY ate the rest of Billups deal. Melo HAD "picked" NY....Denver was out of options, but NY's idiot owner gave Denver MORE than they hoped for. Idiot.

D Will....came UNSIGNED and rather than Dwight in NJ....maybe D Will lands in Orlando or both go to....who knows...

If you WAIT A YEAR...Orlando may be looking to "just salvage something" Now? They INTEND to NOT lose another franchise star.

I wouldn't call it eating Billups, Felton is straight garbage, Billups maybe old, but he's world's better then Ray, contrary to what Cats and Knicks fans would like you to believe.

Felton has no real resign value either, so Chauncey's age matters even less.

vincecarter4pres wrote:I wouldn't call it eating Billups, Felton is straight garbage, Billups maybe old, but he's world's better then Ray, contrary to what Cats and Knicks fans would like you to believe.

Felton has no real resign value either, so Chauncey's age matters even less.

Yeah, I agree. Chauncey now has a huge expiring deal that can be used at the deadline. It's not like the Knicks are stuck with him and he's supposed to be there PG of the future. That was a smart basketball decision to bring him back. Good veterans on expiring contracts are worth a lot.

vincecarter4pres wrote:I wouldn't call it eating Billups, Felton is straight garbage, Billups maybe old, but he's world's better then Ray, contrary to what Cats and Knicks fans would like you to believe.

Felton has no real resign value either, so Chauncey's age matters even less.

Agreed. At worst Billups/Felton was an even swap for the Knicks and in reality a swap in NY's favor.

deviljets7 wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:I wouldn't call it eating Billups, Felton is straight garbage, Billups maybe old, but he's world's better then Ray, contrary to what Cats and Knicks fans would like you to believe.

Felton has no real resign value either, so Chauncey's age matters even less.

Agreed. At worst Billups/Felton was an even swap for the Knicks and in reality a swap in NY's favor.

With Billups decline and injuries this year Denver easily won the Felton for Billups part of the deal. While Billups has a great rep, and Felton's rep sucks, they are close to the same player this year with Felton being healthier and still a better defender.