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Ronito wrote:Ok, you win. It's possible for the Mavericks to sign both Dwight and Deron to join Dirk in Dallas.

Arguing about whether Dwight and Deron can join the Mavericks in the Dwight Howard monitoring thread which just happens to be in the Nets forum is getting kind of annoying.

Back on topic - one has to wonder why Dwight asked for a trade to the Nets and not the Lakers. Both have assets, and Dwight named both on his list of three teams he'd sign an extension with.

FGump wrote:The reports sounded like his agent was chasing trades to all 3 places, although only one of them ended up very public. You have to believe his agent wouldn't have been requesting permission to talk trade to a place that (a) he didnt want to go to, or (b) they then didn't follow through on. Sometimes when you don't hear anything, it means no talks are happening, but at other times, lots is being discussed and no one hears about it until the trade pops. NJ's talks usually end up on the front page for some reason.

"Howard requested a trade during several meetings last week and has been given permission by the Magic to have contact with the New Jersey Nets, Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas Mavericks."

"Smith has previously given Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, permission to discuss trades with Dallas, New Jersey and the Los Angeles Lakers."

"The Mavs, Los Angeles Lakers and New Jersey Nets are the three teams the Orlando Magic has given Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, permission to talk to regarding trade possibilities."

I think Dallas signing both Howard and Williams is very much possible. With that said, it's not very probable...at all.

The other thread was derailed. I thank you for this new thread.

SIG CHECK. AVATAR CHECK.

I think people make too much out of the "home-town connection" angle. Like Dwight going to Atlanta, or Wade going to Chicago two summers ago, or Deron going to Dallas...Dwight and Deron have given absolutely no indication that they want to go to Atlanta/Dallas (in fact, it sounds like Dwight would prefer not to go there, or else he would have mentioned it as one of the teams he'd sign an extension with). Everyone knew Wade was sticking with Miami. Even LeBron and Cleveland, a lot of people thought that since he was from there, he would stay. But then he bolted to Miami on national TV.

Simply put, the home-town connection is very overrated imo, I don't think most players consider it all that much when going to a new team.

therealbig3 wrote:I think people make too much out of the "home-town connection" angle. Like Dwight going to Atlanta, or Wade going to Chicago last summer, or Deron going to Dallas...Dwight and Deron have given absolutely no indication that they want to go to Atlanta/Dallas (in fact, it sounds like Dwight would prefer not to go there, or else he would have mentioned it as one of the teams he'd sign an extension with). Everyone knew Wade was sticking with Miami. Even LeBron and Cleveland, a lot of people thought that since he was from there, he would stay. But then he bolted to Miami on national TV.

Simply put, the home-town connection is very overrated imo, I don't think most players consider it all that much when going to a new team.

Dwight did mention Dallas on his list of three. But I agree with your other point; everyone played up Wade going to Chicago because it's his hometown, his kids were there during a messy divorce, etc. etc.

Ronito wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:I think people make too much out of the "home-town connection" angle. Like Dwight going to Atlanta, or Wade going to Chicago last summer, or Deron going to Dallas...Dwight and Deron have given absolutely no indication that they want to go to Atlanta/Dallas (in fact, it sounds like Dwight would prefer not to go there, or else he would have mentioned it as one of the teams he'd sign an extension with). Everyone knew Wade was sticking with Miami. Even LeBron and Cleveland, a lot of people thought that since he was from there, he would stay. But then he bolted to Miami on national TV.

Simply put, the home-town connection is very overrated imo, I don't think most players consider it all that much when going to a new team.

Dwight did mention Dallas on his list of three. But I agree with your other point; everyone played up Wade going to Chicago because it's his hometown, his kids were there during a messy divorce, etc. etc.

I was referring to Dallas in terms of Deron wanting to go there, I haven't seen any comments from him or anything that implies that he would want to go and play there; I know Dwight mentioned them as one of his teams, he didn't mention Atlanta though, which is his hometown.

If you look way back in the D12 Monitoring thread 1.0, I quoted a Twitter exchange between Dwight and an Atlanta fan (I'm pretty sure VC remembers this) and he pretty much shut down any notion that he would play for Atlanta.

Playing for your hometown is cool once in a while, but few people would want to put up with it simply because of all their friends and extended family constantly bugging them for tickets and money. It may sound trivial but it's definitely a real reason why many players choose not to play at home.

therealbig3 wrote:

Ronito wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:I think people make too much out of the "home-town connection" angle. Like Dwight going to Atlanta, or Wade going to Chicago last summer, or Deron going to Dallas...Dwight and Deron have given absolutely no indication that they want to go to Atlanta/Dallas (in fact, it sounds like Dwight would prefer not to go there, or else he would have mentioned it as one of the teams he'd sign an extension with). Everyone knew Wade was sticking with Miami. Even LeBron and Cleveland, a lot of people thought that since he was from there, he would stay. But then he bolted to Miami on national TV.

Simply put, the home-town connection is very overrated imo, I don't think most players consider it all that much when going to a new team.

Dwight did mention Dallas on his list of three. But I agree with your other point; everyone played up Wade going to Chicago because it's his hometown, his kids were there during a messy divorce, etc. etc.

I was referring to Dallas in terms of Deron wanting to go there, I haven't seen any comments from him or anything that implies that he would want to go and play there; I know Dwight mentioned them as one of his teams, he didn't mention Atlanta though, which is his hometown.

He recently mentioned the no state tax in Texas, talked about the New York market not being particularly important to him and spent time in the Mavs locker room during the NBA finals. I would have to disagree with your conclusion that he has not mentioned or implied anything.

From the last thread:

FGump wrote:

treiz wrote:As Trader Joe already posted in the GB, there's no possibility of Dallas getting both Deron and Dwight ....

The idea that there's "no possibility of Dallas getting both Deron and Dwight" is way off base. Trader Joe really doesn't know what's he's talking about.

That doesn't mean the Mavs WILL get them. But it's not very astute to think they can't swoop in and make it happen in Dallas, when they can. They have the avenues financially so they are a huge threat.

Here's a detailed breakdown of the facts pertaining to Dallas situation and where that puts them in regards to Howard and Williams.
http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1146164.html

Ok, I might have worded it wrong, what I was basically trying to say is that there are a lot of IFS that need to happen in order for you guys to have that chance. You guys are literally going to gut your team to have a chance at the two.

therealbig3 wrote:I think people make too much out of the "home-town connection" angle. Like Dwight going to Atlanta, or Wade going to Chicago two summers ago, or Deron going to Dallas...Dwight and Deron have given absolutely no indication that they want to go to Atlanta/Dallas (in fact, it sounds like Dwight would prefer not to go there, or else he would have mentioned it as one of the teams he'd sign an extension with). Everyone knew Wade was sticking with Miami. Even LeBron and Cleveland, a lot of people thought that since he was from there, he would stay. But then he bolted to Miami on national TV.

Simply put, the home-town connection is very overrated imo, I don't think most players consider it all that much when going to a new team.

Agreed.

It's certainly a possibility that Dwight and Deron go to Dallas, but it's likelihood is beyond improbable and it would be something completely foreign to the NBA.

But again, more so with your point, the going home angle is super overstated and overvalued in the NBA and sports.


Also as in in general to the double D to Dallas scenario, it doesn't compare to Miami in the least.

Miami saw 3 guys get together and get their max raise percentages and max 6 years, they simply took a pay cut of around $5 million over the course of the deals to join forces to play in a location with no state tax.

That state tax angle may be overstated and overrated as an in general as well, but in that case it wasn't, over 6 years no state tax would certainly cover a $5 to $10 million difference.

Miami then also still had enough cap room to sign Haslem and Mike Miller to nearly full MLE deals, retain Chalmers, James Jones and Joel Anthony and have the full MLE this offseason.

Add to that it was the rare opportunity for 3 players, 2 being lock top 5 guys all very young to join forces for 6years minimum.

Totally, completely different scenarios and to say they are similar in the least is beyond facetious.

NyCeEvO wrote:If you look way back in the D12 Monitoring thread 1.0, I quoted a Twitter exchange between Dwight and an Atlanta fan (I'm pretty sure VC remembers this) and he pretty much shut down any notion that he would play for Atlanta.

Playing for your hometown is cool once in a while, but few people would want to put up with it simply because of all their friends and extended family constantly bugging them for tickets and money. It may sound trivial but it's definitely a real reason why many players choose not to play at home.

I definitely remember that NyCe.

Jersey Generals wrote:Last two posts...

Ronito wrote:Ok, you win. It's possible for the Mavericks to sign both Dwight and Deron to join Dirk in Dallas.

Arguing about whether Dwight and Deron can join the Mavericks in the Dwight Howard monitoring thread which just happens to be in the Nets forum is getting kind of annoying.

Back on topic - one has to wonder why Dwight asked for a trade to the Nets and not the Lakers. Both have assets, and Dwight named both on his list of three teams he'd sign an extension with.

FGump wrote:The reports sounded like his agent was chasing trades to all 3 places, although only one of them ended up very public. You have to believe his agent wouldn't have been requesting permission to talk trade to a place that (a) he didnt want to go to, or (b) they then didn't follow through on. Sometimes when you don't hear anything, it means no talks are happening, but at other times, lots is being discussed and no one hears about it until the trade pops. NJ's talks usually end up on the front page for some reason.

"Howard requested a trade during several meetings last week and has been given permission by the Magic to have contact with the New Jersey Nets, Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas Mavericks."

"Smith has previously given Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, permission to discuss trades with Dallas, New Jersey and the Los Angeles Lakers."

"The Mavs, Los Angeles Lakers and New Jersey Nets are the three teams the Orlando Magic has given Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, permission to talk to regarding trade possibilities."

I think Dallas signing both Howard and Williams is very much possible. With that said, it's not very probable...at all.

Boom. Exactly.

I love how Gump writes NJ off as a decoy and thinly veils his opinion they aren't even in the discussion, but he'll deny that once he's back to counter ITT.

treiz wrote:From the last thread:

FGump wrote:

treiz wrote:As Trader Joe already posted in the GB, there's no possibility of Dallas getting both Deron and Dwight ....

The idea that there's "no possibility of Dallas getting both Deron and Dwight" is way off base. Trader Joe really doesn't know what's he's talking about.

That doesn't mean the Mavs WILL get them. But it's not very astute to think they can't swoop in and make it happen in Dallas, when they can. They have the avenues financially so they are a huge threat.

Here's a detailed breakdown of the facts pertaining to Dallas situation and where that puts them in regards to Howard and Williams.
http://mavericks.scout.com/2/1146164.html

Ok, I might have worded it wrong, what I was basically trying to say is that there are a lot of IFS that need to happen in order for you guys to have that chance. You guys are literally going to gut your team to have a chance at the two.

Actually the irony of this is, TJ knows a ton more of what he's talking about then Gump.

jerseyjac wrote:

FGump wrote:Don't be scared of information, even if it doesn't help your bias. Knowledge is your friend. And you're trying real hard to make this some sort of war, but it's not. I'm here to share info.

JJ, I'm really hoping you quoted this for the irony effect and not as a bring us down to earth quote.

This guy has little idea of what he's talking about and everything he's been writing about has been based on bias and false information from a poorly researched and written article rife with inaccuracies, exaggerations, homeristic assumptions, declarations and flat out lies.

He's not sharing info. He's sharing cow crunch.

He's under informed, misinformed and using incorrect details to back his opinion.

I'm not bothered in the least personally, it's kind of gratifying to pawn guys who want to claim they know what they're talking about when in reality they would need Colonel Mustard to get a clue.

That dude who wrote that article knows more about the NBA than you could learn in a million life spans. Seriously, go check out his previous work before accusing him. How about you point out some of the lies and exaggerations instead of bashing someone else for linking an article that harms your assumptions?

Jersey and Dallas are the two teams that have an opportunity to team the two superstars. Ignore that all you want, it will not change it in the slightest.

FGump wrote:VC4P, come on. You're trying to create mountains out of molehills. I mean, you can obsess on all these supposedly "impossible" obstacles for Dallas, but do you really think they are biggies? These things are easy things.

I'm not creating mountains out of mole hills. I'm looking at it without emotion and bias and with facts and NBA trade and transaction history to back what I'm stating.

I'm not obsessing lol, I'm speaking truth and you're talking out of your bunghole.

Odom is 2.4 million guaranteed even if you cut him.

And if you trade him with $2.5M attached where someone else cuts him and makes a profit? Oh.

How do they make a profit lol?

100K?!

How about the roster charge he adds that they have to spend on cause he becomes a permanent empty cap hold for next season?

And were you aware by the new CBA you can only include $3 million total in all transactions per season, no longer $3 million per transaction unlimited?

You would probably need to use that $3 million as additional incentive to dump Marion.

VC is 2 mill a season guaranteed for the next 2 years even if you cut him.

It looks like the Mavs would have another player to move, good catch because that article missed this one. In the worst case scenario (a waiver) that costs the Mavs $800,000 of cap room in 20112.

I don't understand, where are you coming up with this guerrilla math from?

Let's breakout the abacus, shall we?

The worst case is it cost's the Mavs about $2.5 million a season for the next 2 if you waive him.
VC's contract was purposely set up like that by his agent to make it incredibly unlikely and rather stupid to ever cut him, ensuring he's on the Mavs or at worst traded with his options picked up.

Again, he's $2 million guaranteed, if he's cut, he represents a $2 million dollar cap charge.
He is then no longer a player on your roster or part of your organization and instills an addition $440K roster charge as a empty roster spot cap hold.

Get it now?

You move him in trade this season for expiring, next offseason for pure cap, or you're stuck with him.

Marion is not a hot commodity. Teams are not clamoring to take on his bloated salary to help make the Mavs the favorites to win the title.

I think you're letting the "help make the Mavs the favorites" an issue, when it wouldn't be one to GMs. It would come down to what they feel is the best move for their team. LA didn't have much problem in sending Odom to Dallas. And in my estimation, Marion's apparently much much better than you realize.

I think, know wait strike that, I know, you're letting your insane Mavs homerism get in your way of reality and basic logic and expectations.

If you don't dump Jones and Buckets with Marion, you would have to dump them for nothing anyway.

Of course they'd be dumped in some scenario or another.

Glad you've accepted this.

You seemed to conveniently ignore this a number of times earlier in the original thread.

This means less young talent, no more tradeable assets, less contracts to make future trades.

Basically you know nothing of the CBA, read random articles that know **** about the CBA and take them for gospel because it creates this dream scenario for your team.

Actually you couldn't be further from the truth there, and why you have to resort to personal attacks, who knows?

It's certainly not a personal attack, it's stone cold truth.

You have demonstrated over and over and continue to confirm you don't know much about the current CBA and have exposed yourself to believing any piece of Bleacher Report like crap article as gospel when the simplest of research of credible sources such as Larry Coon and Mark Deeks would have given you the answers you craved and debunked these falsities.

We're aren't far from it, I'm standing on the steps of city hall of truth city friend.

AFAIK, like Ronito said the 2012 pick is already LAL bound. It probably has protection on it so the authors of that "article" took that for they can decide when to send the pick.

Are you kidding me?!

That is not how draft picks are dealt in the NBA.

2016 is more or less the first pick you can deal again because of the protection, maybe later and they misread that for they pick the year.

Don't be scared of information, even if it doesn't help your bias. Knowledge is your friend. And you're trying real hard to make this some sort of war, but it's not. I'm here to share info.

Roflcopter!

The irony!

Dude, Ronito and myself were correct and the crazy conspiracy theory in your article we're wrong and you proved it for us with your second source.

It's a standard issue pick protection, not Dallas' choice when to concede it.

Your turn.

elbowj wrote:That dude who wrote that article knows more about the NBA than you could learn in a million life spans. Seriously, go check out his previous work before accusing him. How about you point out some of the lies and exaggerations instead of bashing someone else for linking an article that harms your assumptions?

It seems I have over and over.

Jersey and Dallas are the two teams that have an opportunity to team the two superstars. Ignore that all you want, it will not change it in the slightest.

I've never denied this, in all actuality I've been one of the posters on this board warning to take Dallas as a legitimate threat for Deron.

But again, for Dallas to get both, it would be extremely challenging and Deron and Dwight would have to take an exuberant amount of lesser income.

Could I get an IP check in aisle 14 BTW Rich and JJ or do I have to officially have to report his post?

It's exceptionally odd a Dallas' fans 1st and follow up posts would be on a Nets board of the site on a topic like this, I would put money on it to bet this is a high post count established Dallas or Knix poster multi account troll.

Could I get a double ban one time!

vincecarter4pres wrote:

FGump wrote:VC4P, come on. You're trying to create mountains out of molehills. I mean, you can obsess on all these supposedly "impossible" obstacles for Dallas, but do you really think they are biggies? These things are easy things.

I'm not creating mountains out of mole hills. I'm looking at it without emotion and bias and with facts and NBA trade and transaction history to back what I'm stating.

I'm not obsessing lol, I'm speaking truth and you're talking out of your bunghole.

Odom is 2.4 million guaranteed even if you cut him.

And if you trade him with $2.5M attached where someone else cuts him and makes a profit? Oh.

How do they make a profit lol?

100K?!

How about the roster charge he adds that they have to spend on cause he becomes a permanent empty cap hold for next season?

And were you aware by the new CBA you can only include $3 million total in all transactions per season, no longer $3 million per transaction unlimited?

You would probably need to use that $3 million as additional incentive to dump Marion.

VC is 2 mill a season guaranteed for the next 2 years even if you cut him.

It looks like the Mavs would have another player to move, good catch because that article missed this one. In the worst case scenario (a waiver) that costs the Mavs $800,000 of cap room in 20112.

I don't understand, where are you coming up with this guerrilla math from?

Let's breakout the abacus, shall we?

The worst case is it cost's the Mavs about $2.5 million a season for the next 2 if you waive him.
VC's contract was purposely set up like that by his agent to make it incredibly unlikely and rather stupid to ever cut him, ensuring he's on the Mavs or at worst traded with his options picked up.

Again, he's $2 million guaranteed, if he's cut, he represents a $2 million dollar cap charge.
He is then no longer a player on your roster or part of your organization and instills an addition $440K roster charge as a empty roster spot cap hold.

Get it now?

You move him in trade this season for expiring, next offseason for pure cap, or you're stuck with him.

Marion is not a hot commodity. Teams are not clamoring to take on his bloated salary to help make the Mavs the favorites to win the title.

I think you're letting the "help make the Mavs the favorites" an issue, when it wouldn't be one to GMs. It would come down to what they feel is the best move for their team. LA didn't have much problem in sending Odom to Dallas. And in my estimation, Marion's apparently much much better than you realize.

I think, know wait strike that, I know, you're letting your insane Mavs homerism get in your way of reality and basic logic and expectations.

If you don't dump Jones and Buckets with Marion, you would have to dump them for nothing anyway.

Of course they'd be dumped in some scenario or another.

Glad you've accepted this.

You seemed to conveniently ignore this a number of times earlier in the original thread.

This means less young talent, no more tradeable assets, less contracts to make future trades.

Basically you know nothing of the CBA, read random articles that know **** about the CBA and take them for gospel because it creates this dream scenario for your team.

Actually you couldn't be further from the truth there, and why you have to resort to personal attacks, who knows?

It's certainly not a personal attack, it's stone cold truth.

You have demonstrated over and over and continue to confirm you don't know much about the current CBA and have exposed yourself to believing any piece of Bleacher Report like crap article as gospel when the simplest of research of credible sources such as Larry Coon and Mark Deeks would have given you the answers you craved and debunked these falsities.

We're aren't far from it, I'm standing on the steps of city hall of truth city friend.

AFAIK, like Ronito said the 2012 pick is already LAL bound. It probably has protection on it so the authors of that "article" took that for they can decide when to send the pick.

Are you kidding me?!

That is not how draft picks are dealt in the NBA.

2016 is more or less the first pick you can deal again because of the protection, maybe later and they misread that for they pick the year.

Don't be scared of information, even if it doesn't help your bias. Knowledge is your friend. And you're trying real hard to make this some sort of war, but it's not. I'm here to share info.

Roflcopter!

The irony!

Dude, Ronito and myself were correct and the crazy conspiracy theory in your article we're wrong and you proved it for us with your second source.

It's a standard issue pick protection, not Dallas' choice when to concede it.

Your turn.

About the pick you are wrong. It is protected AND Dallas gets to pick which season they convey it. Don't worry Dallas will likely give it to LA this season to save space.

This is unheard of, show me proof.

Quite honestly and I'm not sure on this one yet with the new CBA, but I believe what you're claiming isn't even allowed by league rules.

You were already shown.

It's not like it really matters, Vince. Because, even if the team is allowed to choose when to send it, that means they automatically only have two picks to send either way. Okay, so they have until 2016 to send a pick to the Lakers.

Let's say they decide they're going to send it in 2016: the only picks open are 2012 and 2014. And that is the absolute most they have open. So if they have to use a pick just to get rid of Marion's contract, they only have one pick left to send to either the Magic or the Nets. So if they use the 2012 pick to shed Marion's contract, then the Nets and Magic are fighting for the 2014. If they use a 2013 pick to shed Marion's contract, then they have no picks left to send. Basically, the Mavs 2012 pick is as good as gone, and their future ability to make moves is pretty much gone, with very little ability to improve the team under the new CBA.