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OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner?

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OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#1 » by elcanis » Thu Jul 5, 2012 8:15 am

Not exactly off topic, but not really Nets related either. Anyway, in the aftermath of the Deron Williams free agency saga, and after the blunders of the Mavericks front office this offseason, there has been a lot of talk, to put it mildly. Some have shown their bitterness, and one sentiment I found interesting was that Deron is "stupid" for not wanting to play for an owner like Mark Cuban who 1) has the resources and willingness to improve his team and can even be considered "spendthrifty" and 2) has a track record of success. First of all, I resent that idea, but what was brought to my attention was the legitimacy of his credentials, as far as knowing how to run a franchise and making sound basketball decisions.

The following is a post I copied from the ESPN conversation boards, and it was posted by a Mavericks fan. I don't necessarily agree with everything this person has written (it is quite poignant) but it is an interesting read, at least in my opinion.

Repost:

Cuban and Donnie don't have a clue how to run a team and haven't since the beginning. Don Nelson Sr brought Dirk on board and his brilliance alone has hidden the countless mistakes made by Cuban/Donnie and provided Dallas with 12 winning seasons and a title. Cuban has done his part too by providing the endless financing, but his money was only good enough to put together one championship team. Proof of Cuban and Donnie's incompetence:

THE DRAFT - Since 2004, here are the picks Donnie/Cuban have made- Vassilis Spanoulis, Maurice Ager, JR Pinnock, Nick Fazekas, Renaldas Seibutis, Milovan Rakovic, Shan Foster, Roddy Beaubois, Ahmad Nivins, Dominique Jones, Solomon Alabi, Jordan Hamilton, Targuy Ngombo, Jared Cunningham, Bernard James, and Jae Crowder. Granted those picks were either mid to late first round picks or second round picks, but a grand total of ONE NBA quality player (Beaubois) was selected by the Mavs over the last 8 years. That is pitiful even by Charlotte Bobcats standards. The Mavs have spent nearly a decade making a mockery of the draft or just choosing to ignore it entirely. Consequently we have no young talent to show for it. This year we had highly-rated players fall to us at both 17 and in the 2nd round, and both times we passed up the obvious pick in favor of grabbing much lower-rated guys which left draft analysts, other GM's, and fans alike scratching their heads.

BAD CONTRACTS - Over the last 8-10 years, Cuban/Donnie have refused to pay top players when we had them and let them walk (Nash, Chandler, etc.) and yet awarded truly awful players with long-term deals worth millions. Steve Nash went on to win an MVP after Cuban claimed he wouldn't hold up. Tyson Chandler just won Defensive Player of the Year after Cuban/Donnie decided he wasn't worth re-signing. However, Cuban/Donnie did think Erika Dampier was worth several million. Awful. Evan Eschmeyer- millions, awful. Tariq Abdul-Wahad, Antoine Rigadeau, DeSagana Diop, and most recently Brenda Haywood. All given millions and all... you guessed it... awful. That is only the shortened version of the list too. It's great that Cuban's willing to spend, don't get me wrong. But look at the ridiculous amount he's wasted over the years simply because he and Donnie are horrible at evaluating talent and constructing a roster.

The team had something very good going back in 2003. They made it to the WCF and only a Dirk injury kept them from beating San Antonio. So what do Cuban/Donnie do? Blow up the team (where have we heard that before?). They brought in Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison, colossal failures from the start. Again, and 'A' for effort, but just poor judgment. Same thing after they won the title in 2011. Instead of keeping the core together, or at the very least bringing back the best center the team ever had, they blew it up in favor of the DWill-Dwight pipe dream. They tried to outsmart everyone else under the new CBA and it blew up in their faces like many said it would.

Don't get me wrong here. I am a loyal Mavs fan and always will be. I am thankful that Mark Cuban has been willing to waste so much of his money over 12 years just so they could finally get it right and win one title. But if you just look at the crazy number of poor draft picks, questionable trades, ludicrous contracts to bad players, and incorrect judgments of letting good players go over the last 12 years, the picture becomes clear- Mark Cuban and Donnie Nelson don't really know how to run an NBA team that well. Look at the other top franchises in the league such as LA, SA, and Boston. Yeah, they have their share of mistakes over the last 12 seasons, but their list doesn't even begin to come close to the Mavs' list. Not even remotely close. The Mavs have been a top organization over the past 12 years for two reasons alone- Dirk Nowitzki carrying the franchise on his back and almost single-handedly winning 50+ games every year, and Mark Cuban's willingness to erase his mistakes by spending more money to fix them. But now a new salary cap is in place and Cuban can't just buy his way out of trouble. Dirk can't win by himself any more, and this offseason when careful thought and planning were required by all league owners and GM's has exposed Cuban/Donnie for their lack of preparedness and true feel for the game. It's a shame too, because Dirk deserves better.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#2 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Jul 5, 2012 5:28 pm

That actually was a good read and he hits on a lot of good points.

I've never thought that team is run well, so I agree.

I agree that they had a generational player in Dirk, a player with a style, a style that he executes at such a high level, that we've never seen before and will be hard pressed to ever see again.

I agree that Cuban is a great overall owner and that he spent like a madman to try and keep a contender on the floor.

I also agree that Donnie and his actual decision making has been flat out comical at best in a lot of spots.

They've made there fair share of good moves though and you cannot get everyone right, but man...

Even look at the Jason Kidd trade... at that point in time to give all that up for a fading Kidd... I mean at the time Devin was considering one of the best young up and coming point men in the game on a great contract extension and so had a lot of value league wide. I'm not sure who else was out there at the time, I'd have to actually sit down and look back, but there was probably better value to be had. Then again Kidd was a great leader.

Regardless, it truly is that simple. Dirk was great, Cuban spent tons of money and took risks.

It was not so much of basketball smarts and the scary part is they are this team and front office that always prided themselves on advanced stats and then made plays for so many low impact, low efficiency players which the advanced stats painted out to be mediocre to modest in the face of their name painting them as stars, including regular advanced to heavy situational breakdown from places such as Synergy.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#3 » by enetric » Thu Jul 5, 2012 7:39 pm

What was interesting to me is...that most people would say that team is run well. And that is what Cuan has really accomplished. He created a celebrity out of himself and fueled this vibe that he is all about the players and doing whatever it takes to win. It really blinds you from how many mistakes that franchise has made over the years.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#4 » by timani » Thu Jul 5, 2012 8:07 pm

They have certainly made mistakes, but they let Nash go and still won a title. Nash did't win in Phoenix even with Amare/Shaq/Hill, etc...

It was also Donnie that scouted Dirk and made that call to draft him, not Don, so he does get credit for finding him, but other than that, yeah, they haven't done squat in the draft.

I guess they won a title and have had a good squad that they havne't had to apologize for (knucklyheads, DWI's etc....), all while selling out every home game and winning over 50 games every year for over a decade. A lot of teams would take that I think.

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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#5 » by oilfieldtrash4 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 12:41 am

Mavericks win a title before Brooklyn. My reasoning:
Brooklyn in the short term have set themselves up nicely. Fun team and playoff bound. Only problem is that JJ and DWill isn't enough to dethrone the champs. Cuban is aware of that. He is waiting on the right pieces. DWill was one of them but he didn't sign on. So instead of throwing money around on guys they didn't think could win a ring they are waiting for the right pieces. They might strike out again. Who knows? In the meantime they acquire a high draft pick or two and couple that with a Older Dirk, a big time free agent or two and we have a chance. Brooklyn tied themselves to JJ,GW,DW. Nice pieces but it's not going to win the ring.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#6 » by jeff1624 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 12:59 am

oilfieldtrash4 wrote:Mavericks win a title before Brooklyn. My reasoning:
Brooklyn in the short term have set themselves up nicely. Fun team and playoff bound. Only problem is that JJ and DWill isn't enough to dethrone the champs. Cuban is aware of that. He is waiting on the right pieces. DWill was one of them but he didn't sign on. So instead of throwing money around on guys they didn't think could win a ring they are waiting for the right pieces. They might strike out again. Who knows? In the meantime they acquire a high draft pick or two and couple that with a Older Dirk, a big time free agent or two and we have a chance. Brooklyn tied themselves to JJ,GW,DW. Nice pieces but it's not going to win the ring.


Yeah, because 34 year old Dirk is willingly going to want to tank a year HOPING that his team nabs a superstar in next years draft...
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#7 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jul 6, 2012 1:06 am

jeff1624 wrote:
oilfieldtrash4 wrote:Mavericks win a title before Brooklyn. My reasoning:
Brooklyn in the short term have set themselves up nicely. Fun team and playoff bound. Only problem is that JJ and DWill isn't enough to dethrone the champs. Cuban is aware of that. He is waiting on the right pieces. DWill was one of them but he didn't sign on. So instead of throwing money around on guys they didn't think could win a ring they are waiting for the right pieces. They might strike out again. Who knows? In the meantime they acquire a high draft pick or two and couple that with a Older Dirk, a big time free agent or two and we have a chance. Brooklyn tied themselves to JJ,GW,DW. Nice pieces but it's not going to win the ring.


Yeah, because 34 year old Dirk is willingly going to want to tank a year HOPING that his team nabs a superstar in next years draft...

Possibly two years in his scenario.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#8 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jul 6, 2012 1:07 am

Dirk's going to be traded by the deadline BTW. Wonder who the lucky team will be?
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#9 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 1:32 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:Dirk's going to be traded by the deadline BTW. Wonder who the lucky team will be?

Chicago is the team that should push for him. They have the assets and unlike Howard, Dirk isn't likely to object to playing there.


As for the OP, Dallas' front office is certainly not the spurs and they've made plenty of mistakes over the years, but they have a good reputation because their aggressive tactics are endearing to people. People like the idea of an owner willing to spend deep in the luxury tax and a management that constantly seeks to improve and reshuffle their roster.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#10 » by jeff1624 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 1:41 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:Dirk's going to be traded by the deadline BTW. Wonder who the lucky team will be?



They should... don't think they will though. Cuban would get killed by the fanbase and I think Dirk likes the idea of playing for the Mavs his entire career.

The only way I could have seen Dirk traded is if they hadn't won the 'chip last year.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#11 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jul 6, 2012 1:55 am

jeff1624 wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Dirk's going to be traded by the deadline BTW. Wonder who the lucky team will be?



They should... don't think they will though. Cuban would get killed by the fanbase and I think Dirk likes the idea of playing for the Mavs his entire career.

The only way I could have seen Dirk traded is if they hadn't won the 'chip last year.

The thing with Dirk is I believe he has a no trade clause.

So you're probably right, he won't be traded, but you never know.

Dirk for Bosh? :lol:

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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#12 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:03 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:The thing with Dirk is I believe he has a no trade clause.

Can't he just waive it? Is it really going to want to stick around on a lottery team?
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#13 » by DirkIsNBA » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:46 am

It is tough times for my Mavs, but this franchise has seen its fair share of bad moments and have championship banner rising in the rafters through it all.

As for Cuban, he spent big for years pushing the Mavs to a title, and once it finally happened, I suppose he felt he did not owe the fans anymore frugal spending. He is really hell bent on the notion that year 3 of this new CBA, when the tax escalators kick in, is going to readjust the market pricing of NBA players. We will see, but it looks like the team might be lottery bound this year. However, I cannot see Dirk ever demanding a trade. I think he goes the quieter route if it happens, more like Nash and not Super Cry Baby in Orlando.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#14 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jul 6, 2012 5:43 am

DirkIsNBA wrote:It is tough times for my Mavs, but this franchise has seen its fair share of bad moments and have championship banner rising in the rafters through it all.

As for Cuban, he spent big for years pushing the Mavs to a title, and once it finally happened, I suppose he felt he did not owe the fans anymore frugal spending. He is really hell bent on the notion that year 3 of this new CBA, when the tax escalators kick in, is going to readjust the market pricing of NBA players. We will see, but it looks like the team might be lottery bound this year. However, I cannot see Dirk ever demanding a trade. I think he goes the quieter route if it happens, more like Nash and not Super Cry Baby in Orlando.

The thing is now though, the Mavs look bad, like real bad. Like bottom 5 record in the NBA bad.

That losing is going to effect Dirk, that's for sure.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#15 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 5:51 am

The Mavs are in a tough spot. They'll have cap space next season, but it's questionable how useful that is when they have a gutted and unappealing roster. Who wants to go to Dallas to play with old man Dirk and nothing else? Even Kidd bailed on them and went to NY because the Knicks have "more pieces."
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#16 » by enetric » Fri Jul 6, 2012 6:10 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:Dirk's going to be traded by the deadline BTW. Wonder who the lucky team will be?


I have had the same thought all afternoon. Would he have the balls to trade him to LA? I think Cuban would rather drink poison.

Teams I see Houston, Atlanta, Denver. Trying to come up with more in the East I could see him dealt to because its hard to envision him traded in the West.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#17 » by enetric » Fri Jul 6, 2012 6:15 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
DirkIsNBA wrote:It is tough times for my Mavs, but this franchise has seen its fair share of bad moments and have championship banner rising in the rafters through it all.

As for Cuban, he spent big for years pushing the Mavs to a title, and once it finally happened, I suppose he felt he did not owe the fans anymore frugal spending. He is really hell bent on the notion that year 3 of this new CBA, when the tax escalators kick in, is going to readjust the market pricing of NBA players. We will see, but it looks like the team might be lottery bound this year. However, I cannot see Dirk ever demanding a trade. I think he goes the quieter route if it happens, more like Nash and not Super Cry Baby in Orlando.

The thing is now though, the Mavs look bad, like real bad. Like bottom 5 record in the NBA bad.

That losing is going to effect Dirk, that's for sure.


They lost an old Kidd and an old Terry. I think they could still add a couple of bodies and be a playoff team if Dirk was healthy. Not going to go very far...but Dirk IS that good even declined.

I dont think they SHOULD do any of this based on who is left. I think they should rebuild now if they can get a smart deal. And I think Dirk WOULD go for it if he could see that his situation were improved. I cant see Dirk being OK with a rebuild at his age. I dont care how quiet he is. He may not make a stink but I think he will say...if you can trade me...its OK. Lets see if there is something out there that makes sense for both of us.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#18 » by enetric » Fri Jul 6, 2012 6:24 am

Basileus777 wrote:The Mavs are in a tough spot. They'll have cap space next season, but it's questionable how useful that is when they have a gutted and unappealing roster. Who wants to go to Dallas to play with old man Dirk and nothing else? Even Kidd bailed on them and went to NY because the Knicks have "more pieces."



I think Kidd came off like an ass this off season. Really disappointed.

I want to tag team with Deron. Oh its Nets? I would love to go back there.

No cap space. I really want to finish my career with Dallas.

NY offering 12 cents more? NY!!!!


I was hoping we would use the 3mil TE for him if that were possible. I just didnt love the way it all went down with him. And to see him in a Nix uniform would be like seeing Derek Jeter in a Red Sox uniform. Its just F-ing wrong.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#19 » by Basileus777 » Fri Jul 6, 2012 6:35 am

It's not really a surprise. I love Kidd for his years in NJ, but he's always wanted to get paid. He stayed with the Nets in large part because they could give him the most money, and forced his way out when he couldn't get another extension here.
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Re: OT: Mark Cuban, Savvy Owner? 

Post#20 » by drejeronfire » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:55 pm

Don't like it but... I"m guessing the Knicks offered more guaranteed money than any other team.

Kidd should still help them but a 3-year deal? Really?

Kidd's going to be 40 in 8 months...

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