Too much hate for Lopez going around

[Keith Van Horn]

I have the SB Nation app on my phone and look for the NetsDaily updates, and for some reason I get feeds from other team sites as well. I got one from the Orlando basketball site about a deal "almost being done" and decided to check out the comments. They just straight up bash Lopez and say "screw him" for over a hundred posts.

The guy had one bad season and now he gets labeled as soft and a injury prone. These people are just bitter Dwight has made a spectacle out of them. Seriously, the return for Howard isn't going to be really what it should be b/c it's HOWARD. There's only a smallhandful of players that would make for a good return. And these Magic fans have to realize that no one is going to want to go play in Orlando now.

And I'm also hearing they would rather see Lopez go elsewhere and try to get someone else. Why? So they can leave you as soon as their contract is up? They want the cap space... for what... the Johan Petros of the league? Again, no one is going to want to go there unless they overpay for someone... at least with Lopez in a S&T he will be staying with Orlando and they'll have some security.

I almost feel bad for Brook if he goes to Orlando. He's a classy guy, a proven player, and he does has some flaws but he's still young and he's going to rebound from his injury like a professional. These guys are saying if he goes to Orlando, the second he touches the floor they'll be "cheering for the Magic and booing Lopez." Real classless.

I really believe Brook's biggest flaw too, his rebounding, has been a product of Humphries breaking out. I can see Lopez averaging 18 and 8 a game this season with no Humphries.

I was just getting so angry last night as I read those posts about Lopez. I saw only a few pages about him on the GB. Everyone just likes to look at stats and start labeling him whatever they want. People need to watch the guy play (not just once, or highlights either) before passing judgement on a guy just b/c he's not Howard nor his value alone equal of Howard's.

[NyCeEvO]

The guy had one bad season and now he gets labeled as soft and a injury prone. These people are just bitter Dwight has made a spectacle out of them. Seriously, the return for Howard isn't going to be really what it should be b/c it's HOWARD. There's only a smallhandful of players that would make for a good return. And these Magic fans have to realize that no one is going to want to go play in Orlando now.

Before completely bashing all ORL fans, take a look to see why they could be so pissed off.

1) The superstar player that they drafted does not want to be there.

2) The centerpiece player that they are getting back missed all but 5-6 games last season recovering from a stress fracture. While it may not be true, when people think of big men and foot issues, they usually think of Yao Ming and the way his career ended. Players can go from being healthy to injury prone overnight so it's understandable that they think Lopez is injury-prone because 5 games after he returned from injury last season, he was shut down for the rest of the year.

3) It's always easier to adjust when you upgrade rather than when you downgrade. Magic fans have been used to seeing 23ppg/14rpg/2bpg along with DPOY caliber defense on a nightly basis, and now the last they've seen of Lopez suggests that they will see 18-19ppg/6-7rpg/1bpg and very average overall defense and terrible PnR defense. The bottom line is that D12 carried his team to the playoffs, and while Brook is a nice player, he doesn't really lift his team to wins.

When you're used to Howard's production and ability, of course you're going to complain when someone tells you have to downgrade to Lopez's production level.

And I'm also hearing they would rather see Lopez go elsewhere and try to get someone else. Why? So they can leave you as soon as their contract is up? They want the cap space... for what... the Johan Petros of the league? Again, no one is going to want to go there unless they overpay for someone... at least with Lopez in a S&T he will be staying with Orlando and they'll have some security.

I actually found this comment to be pretty funny/ironic, because the same reasons they don't want Lopez are similar to the same reasons why Nets fans valued cap space over obtaining Pau Gasol for an S&T'd D-Will.

Nearly all of us said that we'd rather put tank full throttle asap and keep the cap space free for FAs in the 2013 & 2014 offseasons. If D12 ends up a Net, I doubt he'll end up telling other players not to go to ORL, because ORL helped him get to the team he wanted to go to even though it was a very long and drawn out process. If ORL puts on the proper tank, they could get the #1 pick and then sign young, bigtime free agents like Harden to complement that pick. I can't say I disagree with ORL fans on this issue.

I almost feel bad for Brook if he goes to Orlando. He's a classy guy, a proven player, and he does has some flaws but he's still young and he's going to rebound from his injury like a professional. These guys are saying if he goes to Orlando, the second he touches the floor they'll be "cheering for the Magic and booing Lopez." Real classless.

I'm sure that they wouldn't actually do this to him. They're just pissed off and understandably so. If Lopez actually played poorly to start the season, I could see it happening though.

I really believe Brook's biggest flaw too, his rebounding, has been a product of Humphries breaking out. I can see Lopez averaging 18 and 8 a game this season with no Humphries.

I was just getting so angry last night as I read those posts about Lopez. I saw only a few pages about him on the GB. Everyone just likes to look at stats and start labeling him whatever they want. People need to watch the guy play (not just once, or highlights either) before passing judgement on a guy just b/c he's not Howard nor his value alone equal of Howard's.

I'm tired of hearing Nets fans trying to defend Brook by using the "Hump stole his rebounds" argument.

It's impossible to defend Lopez's lack of rebounding recently, when we've actually seen him watch a rebound come off the rim and literally run away from it as if he didn't want it. The dude is 7ft tall and hasn't been aggressive on the glass for a while. I used to defend him with the calcium deposit/mono argument until last season, when he continued to put up subpar rebounding numbers.

Lopez should be able to box out and grab his own rebounds at the same time, but he hasn't done that since his rookie year. There's no excuse for it.

As far as the rest of his game goes, I fully support him. He's a good offensive player, especially when he attacks the basket and doesn't bail out the defense by settling for 15-20ft jumpers. If he can improve his defense/lateral quickness and rebounding, he has the tools to be the backup allstar center in the East behind Howard.

[jeff1624]

I actually found this comment to be pretty funny/ironic, because the same reasons they don't want Lopez are similar to the same reasons why Nets fans valued cap space over obtaining Pau Gasol for an S&T'd D-Will.

Nearly all of us said that we'd rather put tank full throttle asap and keep the cap space free for FAs in the 2013 & 2014 offseasons. If D12 ends up a Net, I doubt he'll end up telling other players not to go to ORL, because ORL helped him get to the team he wanted to go to even though it was a very long and drawn out process. If ORL puts on the proper tank, they could get the #1 pick and then sign young, bigtime free agents like Harden to complement that pick. I can't say I disagree with ORL fans on this issue.

Except that it isn't comparable at all. Gasol is 32 and serves no purpose on a rebuilding team. Lopez is 24 and can begin the rebuilding on the right track. If we had to trade D-WIll I would have gladly taken back a player of Lopez's abilities.

[NyCeEvO]

I actually found this comment to be pretty funny/ironic, because the same reasons they don't want Lopez are similar to the same reasons why Nets fans valued cap space over obtaining Pau Gasol for an S&T'd D-Will.

Nearly all of us said that we'd rather put tank full throttle asap and keep the cap space free for FAs in the 2013 & 2014 offseasons. If D12 ends up a Net, I doubt he'll end up telling other players not to go to ORL, because ORL helped him get to the team he wanted to go to even though it was a very long and drawn out process. If ORL puts on the proper tank, they could get the #1 pick and then sign young, bigtime free agents like Harden to complement that pick. I can't say I disagree with ORL fans on this issue.

Except that it isn't comparable at all. Gasol is 32 and serves no purpose on a rebuilding team. Lopez is 24 and can begin the rebuilding on the right track. If we had to trade D-WIll I would have gladly taken back a player of Lopez's abilities.

Except the fact that you're looking at it wrong.

You do realize that the main alternative that he suggested was that ORL fans want to dump Lopez for cap space.

Yes, in that way they are comparable.

Also, we all know that Brook Lopez isn't #1 pick worthy. Most fans would take the risk of tanking at a better chance of getting the #1 pick than settling for Lopez. He's a good player but not a franchise changer, which is what ORL is hoping for in the draft.

Again, the reason why the situation is comparable has nothing to do with age or even contract size for that matter. It's the fact that a non-game changing big man is going to eat into cap space at some any dollar amount and that ANY money given to him over the long term can be used to sign other free agents in the upcoming offseasons as well as the fact that not having Lopez helps their tanking chances.

That's how the situations are similar. It has nothing to do with age and contract bro. Lopez is good but at his current form, he's a 3rd option on a good team and ORL fans are hoping to have a #1 overall draft pick with a #1 option, not a 2nd/3rd option center.

[jeff1624]

Brook Lopez alone on that trash roster isn't gonna prevent them from being high in the lottery. Come on now. And the reason it isn't comparable is exactly because of the age and contract. I didn't want gasol because again, he's 32, serves no purpose on a rebuilding team and his contract is way to big which makes it less desirable for other teams in case we wanted to move him later on. Lopez is 24, still has room to grow, will be paid much less and his value can only increase later on. If the Magic decide that they would want to move him, they could get a lot more for him then what we could have gotten for Gasol.

[NyCeEvO]

Brook Lopez alone on that trash roster isn't gonna prevent them from being high in the lottery. Come on now. And the reason it isn't comparable is exactly because of the age and contract. I didn't want gasol because again, he's 32, serves no purpose on a rebuilding team and his contract is way to big which makes it less desirable for other teams in case we wanted to move him later on. Lopez is 24, still has room to grow, will be paid much less and his value can only increase later on. If the Magic decide that they would want to move him, they could get a lot more for him then what we could have gotten for Gasol.

No, you're again going to factors that aren't the principal motivators of ORL fans disdain.

A main reason they don't want Lopez has nothing to do with age and contract.

Recognizing that they have to trade D12, ORL fans want to rebuild the OKC/SAS way. Go to their boards and look at the thread they had about hiring Hennigan.

They were ecstatic because they had a guy who was trained in embracing the 'tank and suck some more until you have several top draft picks that will either become star players or be traded for veteran players' model.

Not wanting Lopez has everything to do with having the absolute worst team on the floor possible so that they can tank the hardest.

Lopez is a good player and while he won't turn a lottery team into a playoff bound team, he's still a nice player. However, instead of having just a nice player, psychologically it helps fans to think their team's tanking helped them get the player they wanted in the draft.

We saw this year how a one game difference affected our draft position and could've helped us land a top-3 pick. Obviously, you win more games with Lopez than without him and the worse off the team is the better.

You're still trying to show other aspects in Lopez and Gasol aren't comparable and I agree with you on those points. However, what I'm trying to say is that the main reason why ORL fans (not the management) don't want Lopez is very simple and really doesn't have anything to do with his age or contract. It has to do with rebuilding through the draft, tanking as hard as possible, and just rebuilding the way they want to rebuild.

They want to have the most cap space possible and highest chance of getting the #1 pick. Lopez won't help them in either way.

Personally, I didn't want Gasol because he could actually help us win a few more games and I didn't want that. I wanted to be as bad as possible (had we lost D-Will) and preserve as much cap space as possible (regardless of the contract size of a player like Pau or Brook) for upcoming free agents.

[jeff1624]

Brook Lopez alone on that trash roster isn't gonna prevent them from being high in the lottery. Come on now. And the reason it isn't comparable is exactly because of the age and contract. I didn't want gasol because again, he's 32, serves no purpose on a rebuilding team and his contract is way to big which makes it less desirable for other teams in case we wanted to move him later on. Lopez is 24, still has room to grow, will be paid much less and his value can only increase later on. If the Magic decide that they would want to move him, they could get a lot more for him then what we could have gotten for Gasol.

No, you're again going to factors that aren't the principal motivators of ORL fans disdain.

A main reason they don't want Lopez has nothing to do with age and contract.

Recognizing that they have to trade D12, ORL fans want to rebuild the OKC/SAS way. Go to their boards and look at the thread they had about hiring Hennigan.

They were ecstatic because they had a guy who was trained in embracing the 'tank and suck some more until you have several top draft picks that will either become star players or be traded for veteran players' model.

Not wanting Lopez has everything to do with having the absolute worst team on the floor possible so that they can tank the hardest.

Lopez is a good player and while he won't turn a lottery team into a playoff bound team, he's still a nice player. However, instead of having just a nice player, psychologically it helps fans to think their team's tanking helped them get the player they wanted in the draft.

We saw this year how a one game difference affected our draft position and could've helped us land a top-3 pick. Obviously, you win more games with Lopez than without him and the worse off the team is the better.

You're still trying to show other aspects in Lopez and Gasol aren't comparable and I agree with you on those points. However, what I'm trying to say is that the main reason why ORL fans (not the management) don't want Lopez is very simple and really doesn't have anything to do with his age or contract. It has to do with rebuilding through the draft, tanking as hard as possible, and just rebuilding the way they want to rebuild.

They want to have the most cap space possible and highest chance of getting the #1 pick. Lopez won't help them in either way.

Personally, I didn't want Gasol because he could actually help us win a few more games and I didn't want that. I wanted to be as bad as possible (had we lost D-Will) and preserve as much cap space as possible (regardless of the contract size of a player like Pau or Brook) for upcoming free agents.

And we saw that the team with the worst record ended up with the 2nd pick overall. You know pretty well that if you have a bottom 3-5 record you have as much of a shot of landing the #1 pick as much as the worst record does (not percentage wise, but factoring in the past 10 lotttery winners)..

I understand your point, but it doesn't apply here.

Lopez
Gasol
Wallace
Morrow
Farmar?

That team right there is a late lottery team and Gasol would have played a huge role in that. As it stands now the Magic would have a legit chance of ending up with a bottom 3 record if the trade goes through. Lopez might add a couple of wins, but the team is pretty damn pathetic that they should still be bottom 3... bottom 5 at worst. Lopez is the ideal player you want in a rebuilding phase because he's young enough to mesh with the guys they'll be drafting for next 2 or 3 seasons. Gasol doesn't. That's my point.

Besides, I disagree with you saying that the Magic fans want to suck as much as possible; they think Bynum is the 2nd best center in the league and are desperate to trade for him. Wouldn't he add more wins than Lopez AND occupy more cap space?

[treiz]

Saving this thread here. Jeff when the time comes, do the honours...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1194037

[Shaheen]

If I hear "I'd rather let Dwight walk then have Lopez on a max contract" one more time, I might lose it.

[Rich Rane]

It's as if everyone had subscribed to league pass the last 4 years to specifically watch Lopez. The majority of people outside of the Nets Board seems to be experts on him.

[Keith Van Horn]

I'm tired of hearing Nets fans trying to defend Brook by using the "Hump stole his rebounds" argument.

It's impossible to defend Lopez's lack of rebounding recently, when we've actually seen him watch a rebound come off the rim and literally run away from it as if he didn't want it. The dude is 7ft tall and hasn't been aggressive on the glass for a while. I used to defend him with the calcium deposit/mono argument until last season, when he continued to put up subpar rebounding numbers.

Lopez should be able to box out and grab his own rebounds at the same time, but he hasn't done that since his rookie year. There's no excuse for it.

I don't buy it. It can be mental too, like as in he believes he shouldn't go for more rebounds b/c Hump has it and he can start making a break for the offensive side of the floor. As long as Lopez doesn't have a dominating rebounding PF next to him, I believe his rebounding numbers will jump back up to 8 per game. And I think we'll see this if he plays alongside Teletovic in Brooklyn. There's no way he just figured he was going to become a lazy rebounder after 2 solid years in the league.

[Rich Rane]

Wherever Lopez plays this season (Brooklyn, Orlando, or anywhere else), I hope he beasts on everyone.

[PetroNet]

It's as if everyone had subscribed to league pass the last 4 years to specifically watch Lopez. The majority of people outside of the Nets Board seems to be experts on him.

every fan of every other team:

"i watched brook lopez all of last year. he sucked and regressed, hell he only got 3 rebounds a game and even with him and dwill they sucked and couldnt make the playoffs"

netsfan: ummm... you do know lopez only played 5 games last year and 12 total over 2 seasons with deron williams right?

*CRICKETS*

these guys just look at stats and pretend to know all about him. some people where even saying his 20 ppg arent legit because all he does is shoot jumpers and cant score down low.

you cant make this stuff up

[elcanis]

all i know is the guy is incredibly underrated. he led the nba is scoring among all qualified centers in just his second year in the league. he is one of 4 active nba centers that has averaged 20+ ppg over the course of a season within the last 5 years.

the fact is, he is one of the most gifted post scorers in the nba, along with bynum and jefferson (all of whom are better than dwight howard at low post scoring).

his rebounding is undeniably a problem. it is woeful, and cant simply be defended by saying that humphries stole the rebounds (which is a weak argument anyway). he has the capacity to get them, and he has shown effort sporadically. but right now, its not at an acceptable level.

with that said, what i dont understand is why one would feel he has reached his potential in terms of rebounding. if anything, the opposite is true. after his second year (career high 8.7 rpg), there was a steep decline. how is it not feasible that he could rebound the way he once did before, or even better, with the help of coaching and more work on his part. not only that, but the guy is 24 years old...

he has a much higher ceiling than most other nba centers, and honestly the only other center i would rather have is dwight howard (MAYBE andrew bynum) and that is the extent to which I sympathize with magic fans.

[jerseyjac]

Wherever Lopez plays this season (Brooklyn, Orlando, or anywhere else), I hope he beasts on everyone.

I just said it in the Howard thread...I really do believe this contract for Brook no matter where he plays this year, he's going to improve all around granted a coach or system doesn't hold him back...our current roster sets him up to really do what he does best and improve on his rebounding and defense...

You gotta love our fans going to bat for Brook on the Gen. forum...especially jeff, man bro, you working hard to edumacate the homers...its absolutely asinine how some fans will just look up a player's % not even realizing the amount of games played, etc...

[624]

My favorite argument is when posters who claim to watch him play compare him to Bargnani....

[Keith Van Horn]

My favorite argument is when posters who claim to watch him play compare him to Bargnani....

My favorite thing is when they know so much about him and what he should be valued at... and then proceed to call him Brooks Lopez.

[netsfaninnyc]

I still can't believe that people would rather see dwight go to la as opposed to the nets, I mean we've been terrible for a few years yet still no sympathy while la always seems to get whoever they want for whatever they want.

[tranjSAIC]

If I hear "I'd rather let Dwight walk then have Lopez on a max contract" one more time, I might lose it.

Well it's the truth, I don't want any part of a max or near max contract if we have to trade Howard to you guys. I just wish you guys won the lotto so we could trade #1 for Howard. Unlike a bunch of other Magic fan's, I don't want any part of Bynum for the same reasons NyCeEvO mentioned.

[tranjSAIC]

I still can't believe that people would rather see dwight go to la as opposed to the nets, I mean we've been terrible for a few years yet still no sympathy while la always seems to get whoever they want for whatever they want.

This really has nothing to do with the Nets, it's more of the fact we Magic fans don't want to "help" Dwight go to the ONLY team he wants to go to. If he's gonna screw us over, we want to do the same to him. lol