OT: Best "top 20" duos ever?

[therealbig3]

What are some of the best duos in history that featured two top 20 players of all time? Also, one of the criteria is that both of them had to play at least one year of their prime together (so Duncan and Robinson wouldn't count).

These would be mine:

Kobe/Shaq
Magic/Kareem
Wade/LeBron
Oscar/Kareem

In that order.

Controversial opinions:

-I think Wade is top 20 all time

-I don't think Moses is top 20 all time (hence no Dr. J/Moses)

-I didn't include Wade/Shaq, because I think Shaq's prime ended in 03

-I think Wade/LeBron>Oscar/Kareem


Thoughts? Duos I missed?

[NyCeEvO]

Do the players need to be top 20 alltime at the time that they played together or are we looking at duos who played together but by the end of their careers were top 20 all-time players?

Even though Kobe won 3 championships with Shaq, Shaq was the more dominant figure. But at the close of the 3 championships, you're saying Kobe is already a top 20 player of all-time, right?

[mirrornick]

Demar and Bargnani

[therealbig3]

Do the players need to be top 20 alltime at the time that they played together or are we looking at duos who played together but by the end of their careers were top 20 all-time players?

Even though Kobe won 3 championships with Shaq, Shaq was the more dominant figure. But at the close of the 3 championships, you're saying Kobe is already a top 20 player of all-time, right?

The bolded, kind of.

My criteria is that they're top 20 all time at this point in time right now. And that they needed to be in their prime at the same time for at least one season.

So for example, Kobe is a top 20 all time player as of right now, and him and Shaq were in their primes together from 01-03 (and Shaq is also clearly top 20 all time). So they count. OTOH, since I consider Wade to be top 20 all time as of right now, he was in his prime in 05 and 06...but Shaq wasn't, so that duo doesn't count. 71 was Oscar's last prime season, but he got to play with a prime Kareem, and they both ended up as top 20 players of all time. So they count. Kareem was also fortunate enough to play his late prime with prime Magic, who also ended up top 20 all time, so they count as well.

Is that clearer? My bad if it's not lol.

[NyCeEvO]

Yes, you've cleared that up.

[Shameer1016]

Kidd-Carter

I don't care what anyone says

[enetric]

My reaction to your comments.

1- Wade is NOT top 20 all time in my opinion. No way.

2- I am fine with you not putting Dr.J/Moses. I dont have either of them top 20 either...but close just outside.

3- Your comment about Shaq/Wade? Shaq was the best player on the Heat his first year there. Not even close. He got absolutely ROBBED for MVP that season. I dont know if you were old enough to remember that year but he played at a fantastic level. Nash winning MVP over him (Shaq came in second that year) was a joke. Plus...his first few years with the Heat, while on the decline he was still top 3 in NBA for at least one or two additional seasons. You obviously love Wade...and i respect that...and him. But Wade gets a lot of revisionist history because he exploded in the Dallas series down 2 games. And he deserves it. But Shaq was still awesome. For some odd reason people think they need to make Shaq out to be severely declined at that point because he began to play less and defer more. He was still a dominant ridiculous force for a couple of years.

Anyway, my point to you would be...either you need to rethink Wade...or re-think Shaq with Wade the first few years. Sure his minutes and fga's dropped a bit but his fg% went up. Miami's three point shooting as a result of Shaq went through the roof. As much as you love Wade...It was Shaq who made those around him better to make that Heat team go from .500-ish with Wade and a very good supporting cast to a champion. Had Shaq not been hurting the year before in the conf. finals no way they lose to Detroit. Shaq was just dominating until that injury got past the point.

[enetric]

One more thing. Kareem with Magic? Kareem was NOT end of prime unless you are being generous for about a year. He was slow as a turtle with Magic. In fact most of their years together Kareem while the bigger name was the third best player on that team. Kareem was an offensive force because of the sky hook. His shot was unstoppable at any age. But talking decline? Shaq year one through three was more of a force than Kareem was over those first few years he played with Magic. They either ran Showtime without Kareem or waited half on hour for him to run down for half court sets.

[Dieselbound&Down]

The first couple of years Magic and Kareem played together, Kareem was still very mobile for a center. It wasn't until about 86 that Magic had a better offensive game. In 1981, Kareem averaged 26/10 with about 3 blocks a game. Shows he was pretty mobile I'd say.

Shaq and Kobe together were the best duo I've seen, using your criteria or otherwise. Inside and out. Both played above average defense, were physically/athletically tops at their position, could score pts, draw free throws and take over games.

[jars]

Jordan & Pippen not featured?
Apparently 6 championships together dont mean squat...

[Kobe System]

Jordan & Pippen not featured?
Apparently 6 championships together dont mean squat...

I agree. Jordan/Pippen should be up there.

[drejeronfire]

Jordan & Pippen not featured?
Apparently 6 championships together dont mean squat...

Is he a Top 20 player of all-time? Depending on whether or not you have him ranked in the Top 20 he will either be on or off the list.

[NyCeEvO]

Jordan & Pippen not featured?
Apparently 6 championships together dont mean squat...

Is he a Top 20 player of all-time? Depending on whether or not you have him ranked in the Top 20 he will either be on or off the list.

Exactly. It only counts if BOTH players are top 20 all-time.

Do you guys think that Scottie is a top-20 alltime player?

EDIT: In fact, if you go to the Player Comparison board, they've run three comprehensive rankings (in 2006, 2008, and in 2011) of the top 100 players and in each of those rankings Pippen Scottie has always been outside top 20. He's close (in the 22-25 range) but he's not there.

[therealbig3]

My reaction to your comments.

1- Wade is NOT top 20 all time in my opinion. No way.

2- I am fine with you not putting Dr.J/Moses. I dont have either of them top 20 either...but close just outside.

3- Your comment about Shaq/Wade? Shaq was the best player on the Heat his first year there. Not even close. He got absolutely ROBBED for MVP that season. I dont know if you were old enough to remember that year but he played at a fantastic level. Nash winning MVP over him (Shaq came in second that year) was a joke. Plus...his first few years with the Heat, while on the decline he was still top 3 in NBA for at least one or two additional seasons. You obviously love Wade...and i respect that...and him. But Wade gets a lot of revisionist history because he exploded in the Dallas series down 2 games. And he deserves it. But Shaq was still awesome. For some odd reason people think they need to make Shaq out to be severely declined at that point because he began to play less and defer more. He was still a dominant ridiculous force for a couple of years.

Anyway, my point to you would be...either you need to rethink Wade...or re-think Shaq with Wade the first few years. Sure his minutes and fga's dropped a bit but his fg% went up. Miami's three point shooting as a result of Shaq went through the roof. As much as you love Wade...It was Shaq who made those around him better to make that Heat team go from .500-ish with Wade and a very good supporting cast to a champion. Had Shaq not been hurting the year before in the conf. finals no way they lose to Detroit. Shaq was just dominating until that injury got past the point.

Well, first of all, I think Wade just makes top 20. He's literally #20 on my list, and the highest I've had him is 18. I really love his healthy, prime seasons...but the problem is, he's not healthy very often, so he takes a hit in my all-time ranking. But he's peaked high enough that I give him the nod. One of the best playoff performers ever, btw.

I also never said Shaq wasn't good with Wade...he just never played in his prime with Wade. One of my criteria is that both players needed to play at least one prime season together. I think Shaq's prime ended in 03. And I think Shaq was 1a to Wade's 1b in 05, and Wade was the best player in the playoffs. And I'm pretty sure it was Wade's injury that prevented the Heat from beating the Pistons in 05.

[jars]

Personally I would have Pippen above Wade which made me think of this. Thakes a few minutes to get into it but it is worth a laugh or two when Stephen A blows up
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGEHhynJNM8[/youtube]

Just curious as to who your top 20 would be? It would make it easier to give you a best duos.
Surely you would have the following players:

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlin
Shaquille O'neal
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Tim Duncan
Julius Erving

Who would make the last ten places? Am I wrong about any of the above names?
Would you take these guys?
John Stockton, David Robinson, Kevin Garnett, Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Jerry West, LeBron, Wade, Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor, Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen... so many more names!

[BadWolf]

Is there even an argument for a better duo then jordan and pippen? And they're not even listed. Maybe Shaq and Kobe.

[therealbig3]

Just curious as to who your top 20 would be? It would make it easier to give you a best duos.
Surely you would have the following players:

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlin
Shaquille O'neal
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Tim Duncan
Julius Erving

Who would make the last ten places? Am I wrong about any of the above names?
Would you take these guys?
John Stockton, David Robinson, Kevin Garnett, Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Jerry West, LeBron, Wade, Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor, Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen... so many more names!

Not going to rank them in order, so that there's less controversy, but yeah, I'd take the 10 guys you mentioned, along with:

-LeBron James
-David Robinson
-Kevin Garnett
-Oscar Robertson
-Steve Nash
-Karl Malone
-Jerry West
-Dwyane Wade
-Dirk Nowitzki
-Hakeem Olajuwon

I go back and forth between Nash and Barkley all the time. Barkley has better longevity, but Nash was a better offensive player, and less of a liability on defense.

[therealbig3]

Is there even an argument for a better duo then jordan and pippen? And they're not even listed. Maybe Shaq and Kobe.

I've personally got Pippen at 23rd all time, so I can't include them.

[NyCeEvO]

Is there even an argument for a better duo then jordan and pippen? And they're not even listed. Maybe Shaq and Kobe.

I've personally got Pippen at 23rd all time, so I can't include them.

Yeah, I wish people would take time to read the thread to understand you're question rather than just make a quick, uninformed post and then leave.

Also, I think you should turn "Who's Better: Pippen or Wade" into a thread on the PC board.

[drejeronfire]

Oof Nash in the Top 20 of all time? He's an advanced stats megastar but I think I'd have him closer to 40 than 20. Also what about Isiah Thomas?