Should Billy King be fired?

[REGG-G-UNIT]

I think you're right in that Mayo is better than he showed when coming off the bench for the Grizzlies but at the same time I don't think that he's very good right now.

Mayo is shooting 45% from three on a fairly large volume of attempts, even if he manages to fluke out a la Ersan Illyasova and maintain that for 1 full season that's not a sustainable rate for a smallish two-guard who has had trouble separating from defenders in the past.

I was high on Mayo around the time he was drafted, but when you look at a significantly better player such as Eric Gordon and see how much he's developed despite being injured and compare him to Eric Gordon, Mayo's career while not bad has certainly been disappointing.

I think Mayo is what he is, a quasi-Jason Terry with a little more athleticism and body control but less speed.

---

I agree with everything about King. The Gerald Wallace trade is indefensible. The Joe Johnson trade wasn't great value, but I am somewhat willing to turn a blind eye to it only because I feel trading for Johnson was one of the main reasons Deron re-signed with the Nets.

[Jersey Generals]

Not trolling at all but in a word would you agree King should be fired or disagree in one word if you don't want to explain your opinion (by your post you clearly must have in other threads).

By the way just to be entirely clear here, I wouldn't fire Billy King unless Phil Jackson wanted to take over the coaching role asap with a GM he wants to work with to build a better franchise long term.

In reality I'd prefer King just not to have his contract re-newed in the summer once his deal expires. Would probably make more sense to bring in another GM if you weren't going to re-new his deal in the summer, before the draft or just right after the season ends, so that the new GM could make any move that needed to be done in line with the direction the head coach wants to play.

Like I said above in an ideal world we'd bring in Jackson as coach, Shaw his lead assistant to take over in a few years with Jackson moving to the front office side of things and with a GM decided upon with Jacksons approval, in other words someone he would like to work with long term.

I don't like calling for people's jobs, even if they're getting paid a bundle for it. I myself, spent years in law school to be basically job-less every other month and still am without a job. So that's why I'm vague in what I say about Billy King until recently, when further evidence came up that makes it impossible to overlook.

[vincecarter4pres]

Twitter on fire right now in Nets Nation lol, courtesy JG and yours truly.

[jerseyjac]

I am staying out of this thread. Anybody who has any deep knowledge about the CBA knows my stance on the matter already.

Not trolling at all but in a word would you agree King should be fired or disagree in one word if you don't want to explain your opinion (by your post you clearly must have in other threads).

By the way just to be entirely clear here, I wouldn't fire Billy King unless Phil Jackson wanted to take over the coaching role asap with a GM he wants to work with to build a better franchise long term.

In reality I'd prefer King just not to have his contract re-newed in the summer once his deal expires. Would probably make more sense to bring in another GM if you weren't going to re-new his deal in the summer, before the draft or just right after the season ends, so that the new GM could make any move that needed to be done in line with the direction the head coach wants to play.

Like I said above in an ideal world we'd bring in Jackson as coach, Shaw his lead assistant to take over in a few years with Jackson moving to the front office side of things and with a GM decided upon with Jacksons approval, in other words someone he would like to work with long term.

We all knew when Billy came in here there would be suspect moves or short term solutions to our issues that we wouldn't like...we knew potentially the concerns just from his work in Philly...and we all talked about it...

If you weren't pissed off about the Wallace trade back in March of 2012 you had your head up your ass...

However, its been talked about before, besides rumors( and throwing out draft picks argument), do we know that Harden was available prior to us making the Wallace trade beyond rumors..the thought was there, but I believe OKC had no idea what they were going to do at that time...

[Netaman]

I tend to agree with JJ. I think the conjecture is mostly BS. GM's get the opportunity to say 'yes' to so few trade offers every season and so many rumored deals never happen because of standard negotiation that counting on anything that didn't actually happen is almost always wishful thinking. Assuming a Harden deal in particular seems very pie in the sky considering OKC always seemed determined to lock up their core first and foremost.

As far as Billy King's performance goes, I think it is a solid B, with a lot of upside to go higher. As this last week has shown, the ability is there they just need the right coach/system to bring it out. The best thing you can say about the job he's done is that this roster is very flexible and not at all locked. Usually spending as much money as he did would leave a team without options, but that's not the case.

Regarding his main moves, while he's clearly not the best GM in the NBA at extracting value, I do think he has a very good eye for 'winning' players. Johnson and Wallace are both overpaid but both also make positive plays at the end of the game on both sides of the court. They have basketball intelligence, toughness, and skill. Reggie Evans was a very shrewd and under the radar acquisition who similarly not only makes plays but also brings a tough dimension to the lockerroom. Blatche/Brooks/Taylor/Bogdonovic/Toko were all good picks maximizing value from a talent perspective. The rest of the league had a shot at almost all of them and passed, and at this point I'd say it's safe to say each holds the value of a non-lotto first round pick.

As I see it there are 2 main paths for improvement in this organization. The more likely one would be finding an exceptional coach whose system can bring the most out of the current roster and making 1 or 2 smart acquisitions. As constructed this team already has the talent to be the 2nd best team in the East, if the right system could deliver a little more offensive consistency and insert a couple other role players (an athletic PF? Upgrade over Bogans?) they could be in the mix with Miami. The more unlikely path would be pulling off another blockbuster using Hump's contract for someone like Smith, Gay, etc. At this point I'd say my confidence is pretty solid that King will be able to deliver on one of these two things.

[PetroNet]

I agree with everything about King. The Gerald Wallace trade is indefensible. The Joe Johnson trade wasn't great value, but I am somewhat willing to turn a blind eye to it only because I feel trading for Johnson was one of the main reasons Deron re-signed with the Nets.

i agree.... and it basically boils down to this:

You are either going to give Billy a mulligan on the Wallace trade, and judge him on everything outside of that deal, or you are going to hold that against him and say he should be fired. if your asking for him to be fired, then this shouldnt be a new revelation, you should have been calling for his head since that deal... and if you were, then no complaints here.

[Jersey Generals]

i agree.... and it basically boils down to this:

You are either going to give Billy a mulligan on the Wallace trade, and judge him on everything outside of that deal, or you are going to hold that against him and say he should be fired. if your asking for him to be fired, then this shouldnt be a new revelation, you should have been calling for his head since that deal... and if you were, then no complaints here.

Untrue. What happens if you learn that you actually traded more in a trade then you were led to believe at the time?

[Trader_Joe]

BK has overpaid in trade and free agency...however he also did what he had to do to meet Prokys demand for a winner year 1 in Brooklyn.

If we had PJC as head coach from day 1, I have a feeling we're #3 in the East and this conversation is not happening. He has assembled a team that fits very well on paper and is finally fitting well on the court.

Right now I honestly think his biggest mistake was not the Wallace trade (and yes maybe Portland would have taken less but with hours to go on the trade deadline...do you not make the trade if Portland is dragging their feet? We were only a couple games out of the playoffs with Lopez coming back when the trade was made and a Deron approved deal)...or the JJ trade even as new details emerge ...but giving Hump a near untradable contract. I just hope he doesn't try to trade Hump this season. Trade him next trade deadline when his contract is 75% paid.

I don't think King should be fired but I think he needs to be reevaluated after this years draft. Depending on what he does at the trade deadline, how the team does in the playoffs and does on draft night that is the time to evaluate him. I have a feeling that we will be a contender by next season and if we are I'd hate to see King not be a part of that.

Besides...what's a new GM gonna be able to do with this team anyway as we have no more assets or cap space.

[N Ireland Nets]

So looking at this again now the information Jersey General provided has been found to be 100% correct.

Atlanta have the right to swap the 2014 & 2015 1st round picks with Brooklyn.

Does it change anyone's stance on Billy King?

[Hello Brooklyn]

This was a really dumbo move by Billy King.

It does give me a worse opinion of him. I still think that overall hes done a good job. But I wouldn't be opposed to replacing him in the off season.

You guys are advocating firing him before his contract is up. And I don't think thats fair.

[Paradise]

I can see if we gave up our picks to Atlanta but swapping picks in 2014 and 2015 is hardly a reason to throw dirt on him. In fact, Billy has made out better than the Lakers and Knicks in terms of trading for stars with picks.

And the whole Mayo talk is overblown. He's shooting 45% and having a career season as a starter but the Mavs are 12th in the West and in games against elite teams, Mayo has played awful. He's not proven whatsoever to command a starting job here.

I really thought Billy did a good job, we have the best talent in the East behind Miami and NY right now. There is a good chance, billy makes another solid but beneficial move.

Firing him over what? 1 bad month? I think this is a discussion that would be much better reserved for when the season is over.

[Jersey Generals]

I can see if we gave up our picks to Atlanta but swapping picks in 2014 and 2015 is hardly a reason to throw dirt on him.

He single handedly left this team without anything to trade or better itself, so yes, it is a reason to throw dirt on him.

In fact, Billy has made out better than the Lakers and Knicks in terms of trading for stars with picks.

Wait, what? How do you figure? Because the Nets had more picks for him to trade from the get go?

I really thought Billy did a good job, we have the best talent in the East behind Miami and NY right now. There is a good chance, billy makes another solid but beneficial move.

Like waht? Go on, name a move.

Firing him over what? 1 bad month? I think this is a discussion that would be much better reserved for when the season is over.

You serious? You do realize that, once Humphries is traded, and with King's past moves that will not be a beneficial move, this is the team. This is it. There is nothing else to be done or can be done for years. I think people in this thead don't realize the implications of the new CBA.

[N Ireland Nets]

You guys are advocating firing him before his contract is up. And I don't think thats fair.

I'd prefer it if we let Kings contract expire while we brought in a GM & Head coach to work together.

Now if I was Proky and King calls me with a deal to send Hump & 1sts off to the bucks for Iiyasova, Id tell him no and that I'm not signing off on any deal till we re-evaluate his position in the summer.

Btw we would need to bring in a new GM & coach straight after the season to let them scout and prepare as best they can for the draft and next season.

That's my view, handcuff kings arms so he can't send out any of our crappy assets we have left and bring in a whole new basketball side of the franchise at seasons end.

[Paradise]

He single handedly left this team without anything to trade or better itself, so yes, it is a reason to throw dirt on him.

Just like Lakers, Knicks, Grizzlies and every other team that is capped out. Please.

Wait, what? How do you figure? Because the Nets had more picks for him to trade from the get go?

The Lakers gave up their picks on Nash and the Knicks gave up their picks for Carmelo and Chandler. Both teams will be struggling to get any value in the draft to add youth for the foreseeable future. In fact, the Knicks traded away a very good Euro prospect they drafted THIS year in the Felton deal.

You serious? You do realize that, once Humphries is traded, and with King's past moves that will not be a beneficial move, this is the team. This is it. There is nothing else to be done or can be done for years. I think people in this thead don't realize the implications of the new CBA.

Once again, that is the same story for every other capped out team in the league. You think Miami can make any beneficial moves outside of the MLE? You think the Knicks can make any beneficial moves outside of the MLE? Same thing with the Lakers. Memphis is now desperately trying to move Gay before he becomes untradable.

You are complaining over issues half of the league's top salary franchises are in right now. They can only get better through drafts, vet min steals or MLE.

Just like Glen Grunwald made lemons out of lemonade by signing JR to a cheap deal to get his bird rights for an extension next year, Billy will do the samething with Blatche. Mirza is signed to a similar deal to Steve Novak and if he can give half of the production Steve does, that is a quality trade chip.

I mean, come on you are complaining over things teams are dealing with. Long as Billy does not trade for another 4 year deal one hit wonder like Ilyasova or god forbid, Rudy Gay...then I am content with it.

When you go over the cap and have little assets to trade, that means you begin to see how good a GM truly is if he can find hidden gems. The Knicks have been in this situation for 2 years since Amare signed and made out with gems like Jeremy Lin, Shumpert, Novak and now Copeland. Managed to get Jason Kidd on the cheapest deal for a starting SG.

I mean really, how the hell are you going to fire a guy for doing what his ownership told him to do? Especially trying to impress Deron and showing him money isn't an issue and putting together a well balanced team for him. I highly doubt this is even a topic if this team didn't have that bad December.

[Jersey Generals]

The difference is, you said it yourself, those teams are better than the Nets. So sure, they may not have assets to make a move, but they don't need to, they're already contenders.

Wait, and did you say this team is well balanced? You serious? This is a poorly constructed team to no end.

[therealbig3]

People are so results-oriented, it's not even funny. Put JG or VC4P in charge as GMs of this team, and they would have been able to put together a title contender, or at least a potential title contender with the assets that we had, easily. It wouldn't have been that hard, at all. Billy King successfully got rid of all our valuable assets, while turning us into a treadmill team. The one chance we had at becoming a dark horse contender is pretty much gone unless he can rip off a team for a really good PF, and knowing Billy King, there's a better chance we trade Deron and Lopez for a future 2nd round pick...from Miami. Our 2014 and 2015 draft picks are pretty much worthless in a trade right now.

No reason whatsoever that we had to give them the option to swap picks. We were doing them a HUGE favor by taking JJ's contract off their hands. If anything, WE should have gotten the option to swap picks, which would have improved the value of those draft picks in a trade, big time. Heck, why even give them the lottery-protected pick from Houston? People don't realize how desperate Atlanta was to dump JJ's contract.

No reason whatsoever to trade the pick for Wallace. The topic has been beaten to death, and essentially, it was extremely likely that we could have kept our pick AND signed Wallace. That pick would have most likely been used to acquire Howard. Boom, title contender.

Or, if we had won the lottery and got AD, we don't even have to trade him, just start him at PF instead of re-signing Humphries. Boom, title contender, or would be a title contender in a year or two, depending on AD's development. He's already much better than Humphries, so we would be a lot better in year 1 anyway.

Yes, he should be fired, and no, he hasn't done a good job. We are in a position that many people would say is the worst position to be in for a franchise: a treadmill team without any real assets. And it's not like this was our ceiling, we very easily had the assets to put together a title contender, and it wasn't that hard to do so, but King pissed away all of our assets by massively overpaying for everyone.

Even the trade for Deron...we gave up two of our own lottery picks, the GSW pick, Devin Harris, and Derrick Favors, a #3 lottery pick himself. Many posters here have said that it was massive overpayment as well, and I tend to agree. Especially when you consider what we COULD have gotten with those assets. We could have easily held onto at least one of those picks that we gave up.

Are people serious here with the "one bad month", or "give him a mulligan" crap? You mess up that big, no matter the frequency of the incident (and it certainly hasn't been infrequent, it's been pretty much every move he's made), you deserve to get fired.

[Paradise]

The difference is, you said it yourself, those teams are better than the Nets. So sure, they may not have assets to make a move, but they don't need to, they're already contenders.

Wait, and did you say this team is well balanced? You serious? This is a poorly constructed team to no end.

The Knicks were worse than the Lakers last year and the Knicks are a better team due to a coaching change and adding role players, the Lakers are a .500 team this year. Are you serious?

This team is so poorly constructed, it sits 1 1/2 games out of 4th in the East. Horrible team. I also love you come to this conclusion without an 82 games + playoffs to make that assessment. The Clippers are an example of a poorly constructed team but they are the 1st in their division and 2nd in their conference.

I do not understand how does player production correlate to the team being poorly constructed. If Deron plays like half the player he was in Utah, then there is no argument and the team would have 22-10 record instead of suffering from a terrible month of December.

[therealbig3]

The difference is, you said it yourself, those teams are better than the Nets. So sure, they may not have assets to make a move, but they don't need to, they're already contenders.

Wait, and did you say this team is well balanced? You serious? This is a poorly constructed team to no end.

The Knicks were worse than the Lakers last year and the Knicks are a better team due to a coaching change and adding role players, the Lakers are a .500 team this year. Are you serious?

This team is so poorly constructed, it sits 1 1/2 games out of 4th in the East. Horrible team. I also love you come to this conclusion without an 82 games + playoffs to make that assessment. The Clippers are an example of a poorly constructed team but they are the 1st in their division and 2nd in their conference.

I do not understand how does player production correlate to the team being poorly constructed. If Deron plays like half the player he was in Utah, then there is no argument and the team would have 22-10 record instead of suffering from a terrible month of December.

Yes, but it's kind of obvious that the Lakers are underachieving badly right now.

And maybe you don't remember...but the Knicks' management was considered the laughing-stock of the league for a long time, and in fact, I still think they're a treadmill team. They're not real title contenders, despite their record. So, I think their management is in the same boat as ours, as in, they massively overpaid and wasted all their assets on a team that's not really going to go anywhere. Sure, it'll be fun to watch, and they can make deep runs in the playoffs, just like we have the chance to do, but it doesn't change the fact that they (and us) could have been so much better if management just had some common sense and business acumen.

The Heat and Grizzlies...already title contenders. And the Grizzlies actually have some nice trade pieces, so they're not exactly stuck.

Regular season record really doesn't mean anything to me in terms of determining who's a real contender and who's not. The only contenders in the league this year as far as I'm concerned are Miami, OKC, SA, Memphis, LAC, and a Lakers team that actually plays up to their talent. If Rose comes back 100%, you can add Chicago to that list.

It's obvious to me that our team is clearly inferior to those teams, and will remain inferior unless we make a move...a move that we can't make because we don't have any assets. And we don't have any assets, because Billy King threw them all away.

[Jersey Generals]

:lol:

The Knicks were worse than the Lakers last year and the Knicks are a better team due to a coaching change and adding role players, the Lakers are a .500 team this year. Are you serious?

Aren't we talking about contending teams? You mentioned trades that the Lakers made in the past that stretched their assets, which allowed them to win a championship. You mentioned the Heat, who traded their picks to construct the James/Wade/Bosh core, they too won a championship. You mentioned the Knicks, who traded all of their picks for Carmelo Anthony, and they too are better (I have no idea why you mention the Knicks not being better than the Lakers last year when that has nothing to do with the players they added this year). Will the Knicks win? No, they won't, but they are better (your words). I didn't mention any of those teams by name (Knicks weren't even in my original post because I don't believe them to be contenders) because I wasn't responding to you word for word, I was just making a general statement that contenders can get away with trading their picks because they already are contenders.

This team is so poorly constructed, it sits 1 1/2 games out of 4th in the East. Horrible team. I also love you come to this conclusion without an 82 games + playoffs to make that assessment. The Clippers are an example of a poorly constructed team but they are the 1st in their division and 2nd in their conference.

I do not understand how does player production correlate to the team being poorly constructed. If Deron plays like half the player he was in Utah, then there is no argument and the team would have 22-10 record instead of suffering from a terrible month of December.

Having talent does not equate to being a well constructed team, I'm not sure where you're going with that. Just because the Nets have more talen than seven other teams in the east, does not mean they're constructed well.

[Paradise]

You lost me at Grizzlies being title contenders. They are actually similarly built as us right now and they went into the playoffs as a dark horse without Gay, got to the 2nd round and lost to OKC. Then, didn't get past the 1st round to LAC in 7 games. Basically, the same fear everyone right now has of this team in the East and how exactly are they contenders based off that?

In fact, the entire argument here is just overreacting. First off, this team is not even proven to be labeled as anything other than a good team that can be a very good team.

Secondly, if the record makes no difference and we are inferior...Explain what makes us inferior?

Thirdly, if this team has not engaged in ANY trade talks for any specific players that we know of, then there is no way in hell you can say "no assets" if there hasn't been any indication that there is talks. And what player do you honestly think is going to make this team better? If this team sucks like everyone is suddenly portraying, it would take an all star like Kevin Love or Josh Smith, we are not getting a quality player like that anyhow.

The biggest thing this team is missing to be elite is an elite mindset. Everyone is so suck on players meanwhile, the Bulls have taken marginal talent and maximized it. Coaching, System and Mindset is what will determine a contender. Hell, Utah won titles? No...I guess that was a treadmill franchise.

We have absolutely no clue of what's going to happen in the East/West or whatever, so to argue and cry over this team as if they are the 2012 Sixers is a bit much.

Contenders can change overnight, the LAC might lose Bledsoe, Chris Paul in the blind of an eye. The Heat are a great offensive team but have tremendous weaknesses right now that can come back to haunt them.

The East is wide open. I'm not going to get angry over something I have no clue about yet.