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Some of you know that in addition to my Nets affiliation, I'm a die-hard Kansas Jayhawk fan. The greatest Hawk in recent history coming to Brooklyn is like a movie scripted just for me! The more I think about our team, though, the more I feel that the Truth may be better served as our 6th man, with Kirilenko starting at the 3.

First, PP's similarities to JJ cannot be ignored. We may not get the best out of either if they are sharing a ton of court time together.

Secondly, Pierce is a subpar defender. He was known as one for most of his career, and then when Thibodeau was hired to run the defense, everyone on that Celtics team showed a statistical bump on D. Once Thibs left to coach the Bulls? Back to normal. All of this isn't too say that our other starters are stalwart defenders. Quite to the contrary, my concern is that our overall team defense will suffer with so many inefficient individual defenders on the floor at once.

Thirdly, our bench could really use a leader. Guys like Manu and Harden have helped their teams of the bench, despite the argument that they were their teams' 3rd or even 2nd best player. JET is a great shooter off the bench, but can't be the primary playmaker, while Paul can. Andrei is a good passer too, but isn't the triple threat that Pierce is.

Agree? Disagree? Don't care??? Let me know!

Williams, Johnson, Kirilenko, Garnett, Lopez
Terry, Anderson, Pierce, Evans, Blatche

AK will come off the bench for sure. But Kidd could run a rotation where he plays Paul for 6 minutes in the first quarter and brings in AK to close the quarter. Then, bring Pierce in with the bench unit of Livingston, Terry/Anderson, Evans/Teletovic, Blatche. Basically the same role Joe Johnson had last season as the starter and sixth man. Pierce would probably thrive better in that role since he's more aggressive.

Pierce definitely won't accept a bench role off the bat unless he turns into Amare Stoudemire overnight.

Paradise wrote:AK will come off the bench for sure. But Kidd could run a rotation where he plays Paul for 6 minutes in the first quarter and brings in AK to close the quarter. Then, bring Pierce in with the bench unit of Livingston, Terry/Anderson, Evans/Teletovic, Blatche. Basically the same role Joe Johnson had last season as the starter and sixth man. Pierce would probably thrive better in that role since he's more aggressive.

Pierce definitely won't accept a bench role off the bat unless he turns into Amare Stoudemire overnight.

Good points as usual, Paradise.

Paul is still way way way too elite not to start.

I also guarantee you that he will play during crunch time & down the stretch. Deron & Brook will defer to Paul & JJ to take the last shot.

ecuhus1981 wrote:Some of you know that in addition to my Nets affiliation, I'm a die-hard Kansas Jayhawk fan. The greatest Hawk in recent history coming to Brooklyn is like a movie scripted just for me! The more I think about our team, though, the more I feel that the Truth may be better served as our 6th man, with Kirilenko starting at the 3.

First, PP's similarities to JJ cannot be ignored. We may not get the best out of either if they are sharing a ton of court time together.

Secondly, Pierce is a subpar defender. He was known as one for most of his career, and then when Thibodeau was hired to run the defense, everyone on that Celtics team showed a statistical bump on D. Once Thibs left to coach the Bulls? Back to normal. All of this isn't too say that our other starters are stalwart defenders. Quite to the contrary, my concern is that our overall team defense will suffer with so many inefficient individual defenders on the floor at once.

Thirdly, our bench could really use a leader. Guys like Manu and Harden have helped their teams of the bench, despite the argument that they were their teams' 3rd or even 2nd best player. JET is a great shooter off the bench, but can't be the primary playmaker, while Paul can. Andrei is a good passer too, but isn't the triple threat that Pierce is.

Agree? Disagree? Don't care??? Let me know!

Williams, Johnson, Kirilenko, Garnett, Lopez
Terry, Anderson, Pierce, Evans, Blatche

Yeah, the whole 'Paul Pierce is a poor defender' theme was old news a long, long time ago. He played the most minutes on the sixth rated defense last year. KG, for reference, barely played over half the C's minutes last year. He's not the defender he once was (who is at 35), but that was always a media thing. For all the challenges the Celtics had last year, Pierce's D was pretty much never mentioned.

Their opponents' 3 spot production was vey low as well, too bad 82games.com is gone, to see what it was.

165bows wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Some of you know that in addition to my Nets affiliation, I'm a die-hard Kansas Jayhawk fan. The greatest Hawk in recent history coming to Brooklyn is like a movie scripted just for me! The more I think about our team, though, the more I feel that the Truth may be better served as our 6th man, with Kirilenko starting at the 3.

First, PP's similarities to JJ cannot be ignored. We may not get the best out of either if they are sharing a ton of court time together.

Secondly, Pierce is a subpar defender. He was known as one for most of his career, and then when Thibodeau was hired to run the defense, everyone on that Celtics team showed a statistical bump on D. Once Thibs left to coach the Bulls? Back to normal. All of this isn't too say that our other starters are stalwart defenders. Quite to the contrary, my concern is that our overall team defense will suffer with so many inefficient individual defenders on the floor at once.

Thirdly, our bench could really use a leader. Guys like Manu and Harden have helped their teams of the bench, despite the argument that they were their teams' 3rd or even 2nd best player. JET is a great shooter off the bench, but can't be the primary playmaker, while Paul can. Andrei is a good passer too, but isn't the triple threat that Pierce is.

Agree? Disagree? Don't care??? Let me know!

Williams, Johnson, Kirilenko, Garnett, Lopez
Terry, Anderson, Pierce, Evans, Blatche

Yeah, the whole 'Paul Pierce is a poor defender' theme was old news a long, long time ago. He played the most minutes on the sixth rated defense last year. KG, for reference, barely played over half the C's minutes last year. He's not the defender he once was (who is at 35), but that was always a media thing. For all the challenges the Celtics had last year, Pierce's D was pretty much never mentioned.

Their opponents' 3 spot production was vey low as well, too bad 82games.com is gone, to see what it was.

THIS!!!

This guy is wrong. Paul was never considered a " subpar " defender. If you watch Paul in his prime, you'd see he wasn't a bad defender. Sometimes he'd get burned of course, but the guy was a good defener, I tell ya. Now, of course, he isn't really a good defender. He's old, man.

PennyCELTICS1 wrote:This guy is wrong. Paul was never considered a " subpar " defender. If you watch Paul in his prime, you'd see he wasn't a bad defender. Sometimes he'd get burned of course, but the guy was a good defener, I tell ya. Now, of course, he isn't really a good defender. He's old, man.

Turns out 82games.com is back after a hiatus. Here is Pierce's opponents' PER at the three spot while he was on the court for last year: 13.1. His worst season was 15.7 (essentially giving up league-average production) in 09-10, going back five years. It's not the worlds best measurement, but fair to say he is still more than adequate.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS9.HTM

And good news for Net fans, along with Jeff Green (and to a lesser extant, Brandon Bass), held Carmelo to a .381/.265/.898 line in the playoffs.

Ok, I can accept that I am in the minority. Can we at least accept the following two statements:

1) Kirilenko is a better defender than Pierce

2) our starting 5 needs more defense than offense, in order to be elite on both ends

Keep in mind, I luv me some Pierce! But I refuse to believe that he is "too elite" to be a 6th man, especially going into his 15th season. If Harden isn't too good for it, neither is Paul.

ecuhus1981 wrote:Ok, I can accept that I am in the minority. Can we at least accept the following two statements:

1) Kirilenko is a better defender than Pierce

2) our starting 5 needs more defense than offense, in order to be elite on both ends

Keep in mind, I luv me some Pierce! But I refuse to believe that he is "too elite" to be a 6th man, especially going into his 15th season. If Harden isn't too good for it, neither is Paul.

No, we weren't elite because we played 3 on 5 within the starting lineup. Andrei is clearly better than G-Wall but he is a 29% three point shooter.

Pierce is a 38% three point shooter. He is a capable defender as well. Not elite like Andrei last season but offense is more important to start games.

Our bench lacked a defender and a passer to sustain leads built. AK can provide both.

Paradise wrote:No, we weren't elite because we played 3 on 5 within the starting lineup. Andrei is clearly better than G-Wall but he is a 29% three point shooter.

Pierce is a 38% three point shooter. He is a capable defender as well. Not elite like Andrei last season but offense is more important to start games.

Our bench lacked a defender and a passer to sustain leads built. AK can provide both.

I never said anything about last year. I'm talking about Deron, Joe, Kevin and Brook. KG is as complete a 2-way player as they get, but the rest of them are better on O than on D. If we could get one more guy to bring not only solid, but EXCEPTIONAL defense to the table, we could have that balance that every teams needs to advance deep into the postseason. I believe that Andrei can still provide that. Especially since we're going to have to battle the likes of Deng, Melo, Granger/George and LeBron on our path. A lanky, quick, shot-altering pest who could neutralize an opponents' alpha dog would be a big benefit (as would a bench mob headlined by a HoFer who can still give you triple-doubles!).

You make a solid point about 3-point shooting. Whoever plays the 3 for us is going to have to be able to at least stick the corner trey. I think that if given a very focused scoring role, Kirilenko can do that for us. Similar to Thabo, who was known as a poor long-range shooter, but now has become the quintessential "3-and-D" glue guy.

If Pierce is healthy he will be starting at SF and play 30+ minutes a night.

What should be interesting is where AK gets his minutes..Will AK backup Garnett at PF and also start at PF when Garnett sits his 20+ games ?

I think with the age of our team minutes will be available for everyone.

If you think about it, starting AK is not a bad idea. The length of AK, KG, and Lopez is going to be a problem for other team. remind me of the 09-10 Lakers with Odom, Gasol, Bynum/Ariza, Odom, Gasol.


Besides Terry and Blatche no one can really score off the bench, imaging having Pierce off the bench?

It will make the team more balanced, defensively and offensively. i dont think its gonna happen unless the Nets start to do bad.

C Lopez
PF Garnett
SF Kirilenko
SG Pierce or Johnson
PG D. Williams

SG/SF Johnson or Pierce
PF/C Blatche
SG Terry
PF Evans
etc.

What a sick line-up. Defense, leadership, length, inside and outside scoring, unselfish guys, veterans, mental toughness. Line-ups like that win titles.

I keep getting flashes of teams like the '04 Pistons and '11 Mavericks. Not that we have the same make-up, but that kind of balanced, mature, unselfish and deep roster.

I rather AK come off the bench. He gives us versatility off the bench. He could come in for SF or PF. Kidd can sit JJ, PP, KG or Lopez for AK at the end of the first quarter.

One thing I loved about last years team was the fact that our offense would out score the opposing team. I would rather have a 10+ pt lead in the first quarter regardless if the defense is clicking or not.

M I K E wrote:If Pierce is healthy he will be starting at SF and play 30+ minutes a night.

What should be interesting is where AK gets his minutes..Will AK backup Garnett at PF and also start at PF when Garnett sits his 20+ games ?

I think with the age of our team minutes will be available for everyone.

Healthy or not I dont think KG or Pierce get close to 30 minutes a game.

I maybe wrong but I actually think AK and Blatche will get similar minutes per game than KG and PP if not more is some cases.

ecuhus1981 wrote:Ok, I can accept that I am in the minority. Can we at least accept the following two statements:

1) Kirilenko is a better defender than Pierce

2) our starting 5 needs more defense than offense, in order to be elite on both ends

Keep in mind, I luv me some Pierce! But I refuse to believe that he is "too elite" to be a 6th man, especially going into his 15th season. If Harden isn't too good for it, neither is Paul.

i disagree with 2 big time. id rather have the offense in the starting 5. if we are going to beat teams, its going to be by playing at a snails pace and out executing them in the half court. im also not sure AK elevates us to elite defense on the defensive end. we are a better team with pierce on the floor imo. he is arguably our 2nd best player when you factor in minutes

DrazenForThree wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Ok, I can accept that I am in the minority. Can we at least accept the following two statements:

1) Kirilenko is a better defender than Pierce

2) our starting 5 needs more defense than offense, in order to be elite on both ends

Keep in mind, I luv me some Pierce! But I refuse to believe that he is "too elite" to be a 6th man, especially going into his 15th season. If Harden isn't too good for it, neither is Paul.

i disagree with 2 big time. id rather have the offense in the starting 5. if we are going to beat teams, its going to be by playing at a snails pace and out executing them in the half court. im also not sure AK elevates us to elite defense on the defensive end. we are a better team with pierce on the floor imo.

He is arguably our 2nd best player when you factor in minutes - THIS!

I have watched 80% of the games Paul has played in the NBA.

He gives every game what it needs. Some nights, he will go for 20-25 & be the best player on the Nets - amazing for a soon-to-be 36 year old. On other nights, when DWill or BLo or JJ are rocking, he will rebound & playmake. He is a very unselfish total pro.

I remember Pierce making AK47 cry

http://sportstwo.com/threads/79721-Pier ... s-AK47-Cry

Just sayin

Nets have bigger issues, such as whether Paul Pierce will ever forgive Joe Johnson for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72L-BD2qY48

No