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billy king must be thrilled...blatche/livingston/mirza/thornton/plumlee...this team is filled with guys who had little to no value last summer and now their careers did a 180 thanks to kidd. king has so much more to work with now in trades, u can be sure he will take advantage of the situation and together with kidd and prokhorov, this franchise will capitalize on whatever presents itself this summer, u can count on it.

the hiring of kidd was the best thing that happened to this franchise since he got traded here 13 years ago.

Blatche did a 180 in the wrong direction.

Livingston is going to be hard to keep because of his turnaround. I will give Kidd a lot of credit for his play.

Plums I'll give Kidd credit for trusting in him and playing him when other coaches refuse to play rookies. I think KG has also helped and Plumlee has sung his praises.

Mirza same as Plumlee he's played him something our coaching staff refused to do last year so I guess you can give him credit for that. His play has been erratic and nothing to write home about.

Thornton I think was mostly coming from a toxic, losing environment where we can just chuck to a winning, stable environment with a more defined role and where he would be held accountable.

Johnny Kilroy wrote:billy king must be thrilled...blatche/livingston/mirza/thornton/plumlee...this team is filled with guys who had little to no value last summer and now their careers did a 180 thanks to kidd. king has so much more to work with now in trades, u can be sure he will take advantage of the situation and together with kidd and prokhorov, this franchise will capitalize on whatever presents itself this summer, u can count on it.

the hiring of kidd was the best thing that happened to this franchise since he got traded here 13 years ago.

what are you talking about?

Livingston and blatche both players really well last season

Plumlee is a rookie

Thornton was a good player in the past in sacramento

other then mirza, who hasnt exactly been great this season, no one has done a "180".

Prokorov wrote:

Johnny Kilroy wrote:billy king must be thrilled...blatche/livingston/mirza/thornton/plumlee...this team is filled with guys who had little to no value last summer and now their careers did a 180 thanks to kidd. king has so much more to work with now in trades, u can be sure he will take advantage of the situation and together with kidd and prokhorov, this franchise will capitalize on whatever presents itself this summer, u can count on it.

the hiring of kidd was the best thing that happened to this franchise since he got traded here 13 years ago.

what are you talking about?

Livingston and blatche both players really well last season

Plumlee is a rookie

Thornton was a good player in the past in sacramento

other then mirza, who hasnt exactly been great this season, no one has done a "180".

Livingston is a much better player than last season. Plumlee is the best rookie big in the draft class right now when he was expected to be in the D-League. Mirza is a much better player as well and Thornton was averaging 38% and 32% shooting in Sacramento before the trade.

It's pretty obvious Kidd did help them develop into better players.

Paradise wrote:Livingston is a much better player than last season.

Livingston this year:
8.2 PPG 3.2 APG 47% FG 55% TS 14.8 PER in 26 minutes

Livingston with cleveland last year:
7.2 PPG 3.6 APG 50% FG 56% TS 14.6 PER in 24 minutes

i really dont see how that is "much better". sure he has started instead of being a 6th man and has been really good defensively and with his intangables, so maybe he is a bit better. but certainly not much better. And statistically i mean thats basically identical from minutes, to scoring, to shooting, to efficiency. And whatever improvement there is could easily be attributed to be 1 more year removed from his injury.

Thornton was averaging 38% and 32% shooting in Sacramento before the trade.

Marcus Thornton with the Nets this season:
43% FG 38% 3PT 56% TS

Marcus Thornton for his career:
43% FG 36% 3PT 54% TS

I mean he is basically shooting at exactly his career averages. a tick higher but also a small sample size. This is also a guy who has started and averaged 19 PPG a couple years ago. I dont think Kidd turned him into a much better player. I think the more likely scenario is he is no longer in a toxic environment on a losing team and the change of scenery helped him get back to what he has done in the past.

Mirza is a much better player as well

Mirza is playing better this season for sure. He hasnt been great and is still inconsistent but he has shot it better then last season. He still has some big issues where his rebounding and defense kind of go in the toilet when his shot isnt falling but still an improvement from last year.

That said, is the improvement because Kidd developed him into a better player, or is it because its his second year and he was a rookie who played for 2 coaches last season and didnt get much burn? again, somewhat speculative either way.

Plumlee is the best rookie big in the draft class right now when he was expected to be in the D-League.

Hard to really assess Plumlee since he is a rookie. is it Kidd or is it just that plumlee is a decent player. Or is it that he is a finisher who plays next to 4 guys who can get him the ball? Either without anything but NCAA basketball to go off it is all just speculation.

It's pretty obvious Kidd did help them develop into better players.

I think its pretty obvious Kidd did NOT develop Livingston and Thornton into better players. Livingston is playing at the same level he did for cleveland last season and Thornton is playing at his career average. I think it is a stretch to say that either of those guys are playing much better then they have prior.

Plumlee and Mirza, I think you can say he developed them... I mean, at the very least he was willing to give them heavy rotation minutes, which PJ and Avery werent going to do. So thats nice to see.

Either way, its not like he turned career bench fodder into solid rotational players.

Paradise wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

Johnny Kilroy wrote:billy king must be thrilled...blatche/livingston/mirza/thornton/plumlee...this team is filled with guys who had little to no value last summer and now their careers did a 180 thanks to kidd. king has so much more to work with now in trades, u can be sure he will take advantage of the situation and together with kidd and prokhorov, this franchise will capitalize on whatever presents itself this summer, u can count on it.

the hiring of kidd was the best thing that happened to this franchise since he got traded here 13 years ago.

what are you talking about?

Livingston and blatche both players really well last season

Plumlee is a rookie

Thornton was a good player in the past in sacramento

other then mirza, who hasnt exactly been great this season, no one has done a "180".

Livingston is a much better player than last season. Plumlee is the best rookie big in the draft class right now when he was expected to be in the D-League. Mirza is a much better player as well and Thornton was averaging 38% and 32% shooting in Sacramento before the trade.

It's pretty obvious Kidd did help them develop into better players.

This is what the front office stressed to Avery and PJ all of last season, TO DEVELOP their players. Great players are hard to come by in this league, so it is important you make the most of your team's talents and strengths by coaching and guiding them properly. Everyone has bought into Kidd's schemes and its paying off well for the team. SA is the model teams should try to be following, not the Heat. Miami acquiring all star talent in 2010 was due in large part to the fact they drafted one already who had ties to Bosh and LeBron. This model, however, has not always worked.


Furthermore, this increases the Nets chances of making a trade this coming offseason or next offseason. Teams will be looking at Mason, Mirza, Bojan(he seems to be an attractive asset).

And to address the OP's original point:

Johnny Kilroy wrote:king has so much more to work with now in trades, u can be sure he will take advantage of the situation

Thats really not the case at all -

Livingston and Blatche are Free Agents. And we can't use them in a sign and trade because we are over the luxury tax line. We also only have the mMLE to spend, which means we likely have to choose between livingston and bogdanovic, kirilenko and others. we wont be able to retain them all.

Blatche is another guy we could very well stand to lose. We have his bird rights, but would likely need to give him a deal in the 3 years 18-28 million range to keep him. that would really hurt us in 2016-2017 and trying to pursue durant. and im not sure he would take a 2 year deal. he could probably get 3/30 from someone.

Mirza can be traded... although he only makes 3M so we couldnt get much in return salary wise. maybe we could move him for a late first. id be ok with that.

Plumlee is a guy whose value would be high, but again, he makes 1.3M so he wouldnt garner much back in return other then a pick, and we would be much better off holding on to him

BklynNets wrote:This is what the front office stressed to Avery and PJ all of last season, TO DEVELOP their players. Great players are hard to come by in this league, so it is important you make the most of your team's talents and strengths by coaching and guiding them properly. Everyone has bought into Kidd's schemes and its paying off well for the team. SA is the model teams should try to be following, not the Heat. Miami acquiring all star talent in 2010 was due in large part to the fact they drafted one already who had ties to Bosh and LeBron. This model, however, has not always worked.


Furthermore, this increases the Nets chances of making a trade this coming offseason or next offseason. Teams will be looking at Mason, Mirza, Bojan(he seems to be an attractive asset).

To be fair, Kidd has had more to work with then PJ and Avery did. I mean everyone i think disagrees with how they handled Mirza last year, but overall you are looking at role players/young guys:

Stackhouse, Bogans, Evans, Teletovic, Brooks, Taylor, Shenglia, Blatche (*no rookie first rounder)

vs.

Livingston, thornton, Anderson, Kirilenko, teague, Plumlee, Blatche

i mean Avery PJ had mostly older injured vets who couldnt play, and 2nd round D-League talent. outside of blatche (who i mean, you really need to credit avery for... he wanted to take the gamble on him and he really turned his career around) and mirza there wasnt much there. you could say brooks was young but i think we can conclude he was never going to be anything.

Kidd has more young guys, his vets are younger, and has a first round pick rookie.

Basically, Kidd has done a great job with plumlee and done better with mirza.

Avery/PJ did a great job with blatche and didnt do much with mirza

Prokorov wrote:

BklynNets wrote:This is what the front office stressed to Avery and PJ all of last season, TO DEVELOP their players. Great players are hard to come by in this league, so it is important you make the most of your team's talents and strengths by coaching and guiding them properly. Everyone has bought into Kidd's schemes and its paying off well for the team. SA is the model teams should try to be following, not the Heat. Miami acquiring all star talent in 2010 was due in large part to the fact they drafted one already who had ties to Bosh and LeBron. This model, however, has not always worked.


Furthermore, this increases the Nets chances of making a trade this coming offseason or next offseason. Teams will be looking at Mason, Mirza, Bojan(he seems to be an attractive asset).

To be fair, Kidd has had more to work with then PJ and Avery did. I mean everyone i think disagrees with how they handled Mirza last year, but overall you are looking at role players/young guys:

Stackhouse, Bogans, Evans, Teletovic, Brooks, Taylor, Shenglia, Blatche (*no rookie first rounder)

vs.

Livingston, thornton, Anderson, Kirilenko, teague, Plumlee, Blatche

i mean Avery PJ had mostly older injured vets who couldnt play, and 2nd round D-League talent. outside of blatche (who i mean, you really need to credit avery for... he wanted to take the gamble on him and he really turned his career around) and mirza there wasnt much there. you could say brooks was young but i think we can conclude he was never going to be anything.

Kidd has more young guys, his vets are younger, and has a first round pick rookie.

Basically, Kidd has done a great job with plumlee and done better with mirza.

Avery/PJ did a great job with blatche and didnt do much with mirza

Kidd had on influence on some of the moves made in the offseason even mid-season(Thornton). When a coach sees which players have potential, that says something. PJ and Avery didn't see actual talent and it really drained Lopez, JJ, and DWill last year. This year, you see a an actual "team" out there where fans do not know which players will be involved in any particular play and this wreaks havoc on the opposition.

BklynNets wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

BklynNets wrote:This is what the front office stressed to Avery and PJ all of last season, TO DEVELOP their players. Great players are hard to come by in this league, so it is important you make the most of your team's talents and strengths by coaching and guiding them properly. Everyone has bought into Kidd's schemes and its paying off well for the team. SA is the model teams should try to be following, not the Heat. Miami acquiring all star talent in 2010 was due in large part to the fact they drafted one already who had ties to Bosh and LeBron. This model, however, has not always worked.


Furthermore, this increases the Nets chances of making a trade this coming offseason or next offseason. Teams will be looking at Mason, Mirza, Bojan(he seems to be an attractive asset).

To be fair, Kidd has had more to work with then PJ and Avery did. I mean everyone i think disagrees with how they handled Mirza last year, but overall you are looking at role players/young guys:

Stackhouse, Bogans, Evans, Teletovic, Brooks, Taylor, Shenglia, Blatche (*no rookie first rounder)

vs.

Livingston, thornton, Anderson, Kirilenko, teague, Plumlee, Blatche

i mean Avery PJ had mostly older injured vets who couldnt play, and 2nd round D-League talent. outside of blatche (who i mean, you really need to credit avery for... he wanted to take the gamble on him and he really turned his career around) and mirza there wasnt much there. you could say brooks was young but i think we can conclude he was never going to be anything.

Kidd has more young guys, his vets are younger, and has a first round pick rookie.

Basically, Kidd has done a great job with plumlee and done better with mirza.

Avery/PJ did a great job with blatche and didnt do much with mirza

Kidd had on influence on some of the moves made in the offseason even mid-season(Thornton). When a coach sees which players have potential, that says something. PJ and Avery didn't see actual talent and it really drained Lopez, JJ, and DWill last year. This year, you see a an actual "team" out there where fans do not know which players will be involved in any particular play and this wreaks havoc on the opposition.

Well Avery was a HUGE part of getting blatche here. so i wouldnt say didnt see talent and get it in here. blatche was basically all Avery.

Its also not Avery's fault that kirilenko didnt take less to play for us last year as opposed to this year. and it isnt avery's fault that hump was expiring this year and not last year. i think it was some pretty different circumstances.

Prokorov wrote:

BklynNets wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

To be fair, Kidd has had more to work with then PJ and Avery did. I mean everyone i think disagrees with how they handled Mirza last year, but overall you are looking at role players/young guys:

Stackhouse, Bogans, Evans, Teletovic, Brooks, Taylor, Shenglia, Blatche (*no rookie first rounder)

vs.

Livingston, thornton, Anderson, Kirilenko, teague, Plumlee, Blatche

i mean Avery PJ had mostly older injured vets who couldnt play, and 2nd round D-League talent. outside of blatche (who i mean, you really need to credit avery for... he wanted to take the gamble on him and he really turned his career around) and mirza there wasnt much there. you could say brooks was young but i think we can conclude he was never going to be anything.

Kidd has more young guys, his vets are younger, and has a first round pick rookie.

Basically, Kidd has done a great job with plumlee and done better with mirza.

Avery/PJ did a great job with blatche and didnt do much with mirza

Kidd had on influence on some of the moves made in the offseason even mid-season(Thornton). When a coach sees which players have potential, that says something. PJ and Avery didn't see actual talent and it really drained Lopez, JJ, and DWill last year. This year, you see a an actual "team" out there where fans do not know which players will be involved in any particular play and this wreaks havoc on the opposition.

Well Avery was a HUGE part of getting blatche here. so i wouldnt say didnt see talent and get it in here. blatche was basically all Avery.

Its also not Avery's fault that kirilenko didnt take less to play for us last year as opposed to this year. and it isnt avery's fault that hump was expiring this year and not last year. i think it was some pretty different circumstances.

It was Avery's fault,however, that we played strictly isolation basketball and it was his fault that Reggie got so much playing time whereas Mirza was sitting buried at the end of the bench as was Toko. What identity did they have?

BklynNets wrote:
It was Avery's fault,however, that we played strictly isolation basketball and it was his fault that Reggie got so much playing time whereas Mirza was sitting buried at the end of the bench as was Toko. What identity did they have?

I dont' really think (most) of it was his fault. i mean we played in Isolation alot, but 2 of our 3 best players (brook, joe) including our leading scorer were isolation players. I mean look at our team earlier in the season... it was mostly isolation and the ball movement wasnt there and it was slow with a ton of iso for brook and joe. it took lopez going down and replacing him with livingston for us to gain an identity and the offense to click

Yeah avery played reggie and wallace alot... but he didnt exactly have a guy like Pierce to play PF or a guy like anderson/livingson/thornton/kirileko to play SF. his choices were: Bogans/Stackhouse. not great. Toko is not an NBA calibur ball player. i know he was a favorite but some, but he really is a career d-leaguer on the teague/taylor level. playing him more was not going to help.

Not playing mirza enough is really the only criticism that is legit here. and i think its a fair one. that said, its not like mirza helped his cause. and the 12 game stretch he got under PJ when the fans/media really started coming down about mirza not getting PT, mirza kind of stunk up the joint. even this year under kidd, outside of made a month he has been pretty poor, and if his shot isnt falling the rest of his game tends to slide as well.

its not like mirza has become like taj gibson or some super sub PF off the bench. another thing to consider is that it can hurt you not to have a rebounding PF like humphries or evans next to lopez because of brooks deficiencies on the board. having a subpar defender/rebounder in mirza next to brook only compounds that.

i think last year you have to blame King more then anyone. outside of dwill/jj/lopez we really had 0 legit role players. we didnt have anyone like Livingston, Thornton, Anderson, or Plumlee on this team. we had 0 depth on a team that was playing with injuries.

if kidd was coaching that team, im not sure its much different. maybe he starts mirza, but i think its naive to think that would solve major issues without creating other ones.