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I'm starting up my offseason preview and wanted to get some info and feedback from you guys before I got going.

So, I come to you folks.

How do you see your depth chart breaking down?
What are the major story lines to your team this year?
How do you think you will finish record wise in the league? (what place? 1-30)
Tell me a little about your coaching situation.

Thanks in advance.

jazzfan1971 wrote:I
How do you see your depth chart breaking down?

this is a very difficult question to ask... if you look in the offseason thread you will see a dozen different posters with a dozen VERY different depth charts.

we went small last year. now lopez is back. does brook start? does he come off the bench? is he healed? i think the most popuar thus far is:

Dwill | jack | Teague | Guitierez
Anderson | Brown
Johnson | Bogdanovic | Karasev
Teletovic | Kirilenko | Jefferson
Lopez | Plumlee | Garnett

What are the major story lines to your team this year?

-hollins new coach
-health of lopez and dwill
-plumlee at PF?

How do you think you will finish record wise in the league? (what place? 1-30)

44-46 wins, 4th-6th in the east

Tell me a little about your coaching situation.

new coach in hollins since kidd was fired. should be good since he is tough on players and we have a bunch of guys who play with low effort

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'm starting up my offseason preview and wanted to get some info and feedback from you guys before I got going.

So, I come to you folks.

How do you see your depth chart breaking down?

PG: D-Will | Jack | Gutierrez | Teague

SG: Anderson | M. Brown

SF: Johnson | Bogdanovic | Karasev

PF: Teletovic | Kirilenko | Jefferson

C: Lopez | Plumlee | Garnett

What are the major story lines to your team this year?

-Lionel Hollins becoming head coach. Can he be a long term fit and improvement.

-D-Will and Lopez ankle/foot updates. Will they be 100%.

-Plumlee as a PF. Plumlee/Lopez as a potential starting duo.

-Can Teletovic replace Pierce.

-How good can Bogdanovic become right away.

How do you think you will finish record wise in the league? (what place? 1-30)

Anywhere between 45 - 50 wins. 4th or 7th in the East.

Tell me a little about your coaching situation.

Thanks in advance.

After Kidd left for Milwaukee due to his outrageous demands, the Nets quickly moved in on Lionel Hollins.

We don't know much about the Xs and Os side of his plan with this roster but he so far has done extremely with the New York media. He has mentioned playing with alot more pace. The Nets have added some athletes with two way potential to help with that philosophy.

Hollins has mainly spoken about getting Deron and Lopez healthy and sitting down with them privately to get an idea of what they want and what he wants from them. He has mentioned to Lopez that he wants him to be more nasty on the court similar to the rugged attitude of Marc Gasol. He hasn't mentioned much about Deron except wanting to get him confident and mentally prepared for handling expectations and failure. He has has a big plans on how to utilize Bogdanovic allegedly. He has also spoken highly of Karasev. In terms of a style of play, he has promised the Nets will build on the last two seasons of playoff success and will play defense and will make every single game a competitive dogfight bringing Grind n Grind to the Nets.

Lol at KG not starting, let alone being a 3rd stringer.

KG hasn't come off the bench in an NBA game since Jan. 27, 1996, when he was still a rookie. Including the playoffs, he's started in his last 1,482 games. ONE THOUSAND, FOUR HUNDRED & EIGHTY-TWO CONSECUTIVE STARTS & you guys think an old school guy like Hollins of all people is gonna start Mirza freakin' Teletovic ahead of him.

Get real.

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'm starting up my offseason preview and wanted to get some info and feedback from you guys before I got going.

So, I come to you folks.

How do you see your depth chart breaking down?

You'll receive a number of different answers here from Nets fans, but there are certain fundamental things we can agree on. Whether or not everyone likes it Deron, Joe and Brook will start. Deron's the best pg on the roster, Joe is at worst a top 3 player on the team, and the team is high on Brook. Hollins is trying to work with him, and the front office values him. Among those three Deron is clearly set at pg and Lopez set at center. There might be some small debate on where Joe should play, but most (90% at least) want him to start at sf as he had success there last year. It is tougher for him to guard faster sgs like the James Hardens and you want at a player like Joe in a position that suits him best.

So I think the large majority of fans can agree on this:
PG: DWill
SF: Johnson
C: Lopez

I think a the large majority (75%) want Anderson starting at sg. He started the new year and we went 6-1 to start 2014 and that's what turned the season around. He started games 6-7 against the Raptors. So we've definitely had success with him in the lineup and he fits. He also can guard the tougher 2-3 matchup which helps Joe out as well. I think management/the front office likes him as well. King recently said he wants him to assume more of a leadership role in the absence of Pierce I can also see Hollins liking him as he works hard and plays tough nosed defense. I think he might liken him to a poor man's Tony Allen, obviously not at that level defensively, but he can hold his own.

So I think Most people can agree/think the starting lineup will be this:
PG: DWill
SG: Anderson
SF: Johnson
C: Lopez

Now this is where all the disagreements occur. People see either Plumlee, Mirza, AK, or KG here. It's really tough to tell. It should be one of those 4, but tough to say exactly who

The backups are pretty easy to tell
PG: Jack - who will probably also play spot minutes alongside Dwill
SG: Karasev or Brown. Don't see enough minutes for both.
SF: Bogdanovic - should get around 20 or so minutes. majority here behind Johnson and some at SG

Front Court:
Like I said it's really tough to tell and KG/Lopez/AK all have injury concerns and I'm sure there will be games lost in here. So you might see a few different lineups. KG and Lopez may both sit back-to-backs. AK has back spasms that flare up annually causing him to miss time.

jazzfan1971 wrote:What are the major story lines to your team this year?

1a. Injuries - can Brook and Deron stay healthy? And AK as well
1b. If healthy can Brook and Deron bounce back? Especially Deron who was awful in that Heat series. Also to a lesser extent AK - just saying lesser because he's not the corner stones Deron and Brook are intended to be. Also to a lesser extent Jack.

2. Mason Plumlee, what happens next? He had a very strong rookie campaign for us and surprised almost everyone here. Can he build upon this? He's also saying he's working on his jumper so he can play the 4. He took virtually none last season, would have to look up that stats and only ten his senior year at Duke. He's never been a jump shooter, so how does he look as a jump shooter? Personally,I hate the idea and think he should mold his game after Tyson Chandler.

3a. How does Bogdanovic look? We've been waiting forever for him to come over
3b. There will be minutes at sg for Karasev or Brown. How does one of them look?

4. I think there will be a bunch of storylines around KG. It is his final season and he's an All Time Great, Top 20 at least on almost everyone's list. He needs 352 defensive rebounds to overtake Malone for #1 All Time. He is 1,100 minutes shy of 50,000. This is all less about the Nets and more about KG the player, but I think the spotlight will be on him a bit on his farewell tour and in turn us a bit.

5. I don't think this is a big one at all, but hey I'd like to see if Joe can make another All Star team

jazzfan1971 wrote:How do you think you will finish record wise in the league? (what place? 1-30)

I have our floor much lower than the most Nets fan 37 wins, 9th seed if hit hard by injuries. I think the ceiling is 50 wins and 4th seed. So maybe 46 6th seed?

jazzfan1971 wrote:Tell me a little about your coaching situation.

I think most like it as he won't take anything less than 100% effort which we want to see from our star players DWill and Lopez. Kidd wasn't great in this regard and I think struggled because he was around the same age as many of the players and close with some. I couldn't explain to you why he would play Terry 20 minutes.

jazzfan1971 wrote:Thanks in advance.

Any time!

andresb wrote:Lol at KG not starting, let alone being a 3rd stringer.

KG hasn't come off the bench in an NBA game since Jan. 27, 1996, when he was still a rookie. Including the playoffs, he's started in his last 1,482 games. ONE THOUSAND, FOUR HUNDRED & EIGHTY-TWO CONSECUTIVE STARTS & you guys think an old school guy like Hollins of all people is gonna start Mirza freakin' Teletovic ahead of him.

Get real.

Well, we have no clue on what Hollins is thinking with this roster and considering we keep hearing about the Plumlee/Lopez frontcourt idea along with the reality KG isn't expected to play any more than 20 minutes a night, he will have to come off the bench. Whether he likes it or not.

KG is done. Let him be paid handsomely to mentor and give us 20 mins a night off the bench. It's Brook and Plumlee time now.

Paradise wrote:

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'm starting up my offseason preview and wanted to get some info and feedback from you guys before I got going.

So, I come to you folks.

How do you see your depth chart breaking down?

PG: D-Will | Jack | Gutierrez | Teague

SG: Anderson | M. Brown

SF: Johnson | Bogdanovic | Karasev

PF: Teletovic | Kirilenko | Jefferson

C: Lopez | Plumlee | Garnett

What are the major story lines to your team this year?

-Lionel Hollins becoming head coach. Can he be a long term fit and improvement.

-D-Will and Lopez ankle/foot updates. Will they be 100%.

-Plumlee as a PF. Plumlee/Lopez as a potential starting duo.

-Can Teletovic replace Pierce.

-How good can Bogdanovic become right away.

How do you think you will finish record wise in the league? (what place? 1-30)

Anywhere between 45 - 50 wins. 4th or 7th in the East.

Tell me a little about your coaching situation.

Thanks in advance.

After Kidd left for Milwaukee due to his outrageous demands, the Nets quickly moved in on Lionel Hollins.

We don't know much about the Xs and Os side of his plan with this roster but he so far has done extremely with the New York media. He has mentioned playing with alot more pace. The Nets have added some athletes with two way potential to help with that philosophy.

Hollins has mainly spoken about getting Deron and Lopez healthy and sitting down with them privately to get an idea of what they want and what he wants from them. He has mentioned to Lopez that he wants him to be more nasty on the court similar to the rugged attitude of Marc Gasol. He hasn't mentioned much about Deron except wanting to get him confident and mentally prepared for handling expectations and failure. He has has a big plans on how to utilize Bogdanovic allegedly. He has also spoken highly of Karasev. In terms of a style of play, he has promised the Nets will build on the last two seasons of playoff success and will play defense and will make every single game a competitive dogfight bringing Grind n Grind to the Nets.

Hollins has also stressed ball movement, which will happen if we have the #1 option as Joe Johnson because Joe will make the correct pass once the defense begins to double.

People here think Mirza Teletovic is a good player despite every stat suggesting otherwise.

Plumlee will be the starting PF and is being grossly under rated by Net fans and the national media.

AK will split time between SF and PF.

Mirza will get the scraps left over from these two. Since KG and Lopez are likely to be rested a significant amount of games, Plumlee will slide up to center opening more minutes for Mirza at the 4.

Bogdanovic is the other wild card. He has a chance to step in and make a significant impact since he is a 25 year old veteran.

Lopez - KG
Plumlee - AK/Mirza
Johnson - AK/Bogdanovic
Anderson - Jack/Brown
DWill - Jack

F3LON wrote:People here think Mirza Teletovic is a good player despite every stat suggesting otherwise.

I would love to see these stats. Please share them.

Paradise wrote:

F3LON wrote:People here think Mirza Teletovic is a good player despite every stat suggesting otherwise.

I would love to see these stats. Please share them.

Defensive Rating (LAST)
Garnett 101 DRtg
Plumlee 104 DRtg
Evans 104 DRtg
Blatche 105 DRtg
Pierce 106 DRtg
Kirilenko 107 DRtg
Lopez 108 DRtg
Collins 109 DRtg
Mirza 109 DRtg

Blocks/36 (6th)
Lopez 2.0 Blk/36
Plumlee 1.6 Blk/36
Garnett 1.3 Blk/36
Blatche .8 Blk/36
Kirilenko .8 Blk/36
Mirza .6 Blk/36
Pierce .5 Blk/36
Evans .2 Blk/36
Collins .2 Blk/36

Steals/36 (8th)
Blatche 1.7 Stl/36
Kirilenko 1.7 Stl/36
Collins 1.7 Stl/36
Pierce 1.5 Stl/36
Plumlee 1.4 Stl/36
Garnett 1.4 Stl/36
Evans 1.2 Stl/36
Mirza .7 Stl/36
Lopez .6 Stl/36

Defensive Rebounding/36 (6th)
Garnett 9.7 DRB/36
Evans 8.7 DRB/36
Blatche 6.0 DRB/36
Plumlee 5.9 DRB/36
Pierce 5.5 DRB/36
Mirza 5.3 DRB/36
Lopez 4.3 DRB/36
Kirilenko 3.8 DRB/36
Collins 2.5 DRB/36

Offensive Rebounds/36 (7th tied)
Evans 4.8 ORB/36
Plumlee 2.8 ORB/36
Blatche 2.7 ORB/36
Lopez 2.6 ORB/36
Kirilenko 2.3 ORB/36
Garnett 1.9 ORB/36
Collins 1.5 ORB/36
Mirza 1.5 ORB/36
Pierce .4 ORB/36

Assists/36 (6th)
Pierce 3.1 Ast/36
Kirilenko 3.0 Ast/36
Garnett 3.0 Ast/36
Blatche 2.5 Ast/36
Plumlee 1.7 Ast/36
Mirza 1.5 Ast/36
Lopez 1.1 Ast/36
Collins .8 Ast/36
Evans .5 Ast/36

Mirza sucks outside of shooting. He is the PF version of Morrow. He is bringing up the rear in every category.

Like I said EVERY stat says otherwise besides his shooting. PERIOD.

Everyone is in denial.

F3LON wrote:

Paradise wrote:

F3LON wrote:People here think Mirza Teletovic is a good player despite every stat suggesting otherwise.

I would love to see these stats. Please share them.

Defensive Rating (LAST)
Garnett 101 DRtg
Plumlee 104 DRtg
Evans 104 DRtg
Blatche 105 DRtg
Pierce 106 DRtg
Kirilenko 107 DRtg
Lopez 108 DRtg
Collins 109 DRtg
Mirza 109 DRtg

Blocks/36 (6th)
Lopez 2.0 Blk/36
Plumlee 1.6 Blk/36
Garnett 1.3 Blk/36
Blatche .8 Blk/36
Kirilenko .8 Blk/36
Mirza .6 Blk/36
Pierce .5 Blk/36
Evans .2 Blk/36
Collins .2 Blk/36

Steals/36 (8th)
Blatche 1.7 Stl/36
Kirilenko 1.7 Stl/36
Collins 1.7 Stl/36
Pierce 1.5 Stl/36
Plumlee 1.4 Stl/36
Garnett 1.4 Stl/36
Evans 1.2 Stl/36
Mirza .7 Stl/36
Lopez .6 Stl/36

Defensive Rebounding/36 (6th)
Garnett 9.7 DRB/36
Evans 8.7 DRB/36
Blatche 6.0 DRB/36
Plumlee 5.9 DRB/36
Pierce 5.5 DRB/36
Mirza 5.3 DRB/36
Lopez 4.3 DRB/36
Kirilenko 3.8 DRB/36
Collins 2.5 DRB/36

Offensive Rebounds/36 (7th tied)
Evans 4.8 ORB/36
Plumlee 2.8 ORB/36
Blatche 2.7 ORB/36
Lopez 2.6 ORB/36
Kirilenko 2.3 ORB/36
Garnett 1.9 ORB/36
Collins 1.5 ORB/36
Mirza 1.5 ORB/36
Pierce .4 ORB/36

Assists/36 (6th)
Pierce 3.1 Ast/36
Kirilenko 3.0 Ast/36
Garnett 3.0 Ast/36
Blatche 2.5 Ast/36
Plumlee 1.7 Ast/36
Mirza 1.5 Ast/36
Lopez 1.1 Ast/36
Collins .8 Ast/36
Evans .5 Ast/36

Mirza sucks outside of shooting. He is the PF version of Morrow. He is bringing up the rear in every category.

Like I said EVERY stat says otherwise besides his shooting. PERIOD.

Everyone is in denial.

You clearly said in the original post every stat suggested otherwise. Ironically, everyone from Lopez to Pierce share similar numbers but you single out Mirza and he doesn't even play heavy minutes. Nobody ever said Mirza was an outstanding two way player. Everyone knows defense isn't his greatest contribution but he still is easily a important piece and a good player.

Mirza ranks 7th on the team in Total stats. Total stats is the most basic way of adding up his stats in all categories throughout 82 games. He ranks 5th in rebounding and 2nd in 3pt% in Per 100 Possessions.

Paradise wrote:

F3LON wrote:

Paradise wrote:
I would love to see these stats. Please share them.

Defensive Rating (LAST)
Garnett 101 DRtg
Plumlee 104 DRtg
Evans 104 DRtg
Blatche 105 DRtg
Pierce 106 DRtg
Kirilenko 107 DRtg
Lopez 108 DRtg
Collins 109 DRtg
Mirza 109 DRtg

Blocks/36 (6th)
Lopez 2.0 Blk/36
Plumlee 1.6 Blk/36
Garnett 1.3 Blk/36
Blatche .8 Blk/36
Kirilenko .8 Blk/36
Mirza .6 Blk/36
Pierce .5 Blk/36
Evans .2 Blk/36
Collins .2 Blk/36

Steals/36 (8th)
Blatche 1.7 Stl/36
Kirilenko 1.7 Stl/36
Collins 1.7 Stl/36
Pierce 1.5 Stl/36
Plumlee 1.4 Stl/36
Garnett 1.4 Stl/36
Evans 1.2 Stl/36
Mirza .7 Stl/36
Lopez .6 Stl/36

Defensive Rebounding/36 (6th)
Garnett 9.7 DRB/36
Evans 8.7 DRB/36
Blatche 6.0 DRB/36
Plumlee 5.9 DRB/36
Pierce 5.5 DRB/36
Mirza 5.3 DRB/36
Lopez 4.3 DRB/36
Kirilenko 3.8 DRB/36
Collins 2.5 DRB/36

Offensive Rebounds/36 (7th tied)
Evans 4.8 ORB/36
Plumlee 2.8 ORB/36
Blatche 2.7 ORB/36
Lopez 2.6 ORB/36
Kirilenko 2.3 ORB/36
Garnett 1.9 ORB/36
Collins 1.5 ORB/36
Mirza 1.5 ORB/36
Pierce .4 ORB/36

Assists/36 (6th)
Pierce 3.1 Ast/36
Kirilenko 3.0 Ast/36
Garnett 3.0 Ast/36
Blatche 2.5 Ast/36
Plumlee 1.7 Ast/36
Mirza 1.5 Ast/36
Lopez 1.1 Ast/36
Collins .8 Ast/36
Evans .5 Ast/36

Mirza sucks outside of shooting. He is the PF version of Morrow. He is bringing up the rear in every category.

Like I said EVERY stat says otherwise besides his shooting. PERIOD.

Everyone is in denial.

You clearly said in the original post every stat suggested otherwise. Ironically, everyone from Lopez to Pierce share similar numbers but you single out Mirza and he doesn't even play heavy minutes. Nobody ever said Mirza was an outstanding two way player. Everyone knows defense isn't his greatest contribution but he still is easily a important piece and a good player.

Mirza ranks 7th on the team in Total stats. Total stats is the most basic way of adding up his stats in all categories throughout 82 games. He ranks 5th in rebounding and 2nd in 3pt% in Per 100 Possessions.

How about addressing Mirza since we are talking about him and not Pierce or Lopez.

All of the stats I listed are adjusted for playing time.

Mirza doesnt produce.

He doesnt play good defense as shown by being last of all of our bigs in defensive rating. Please address?

He doesnt cause turnovers or block shots either. If you look at everyone else they are either good at blocking shots or stealing the ball. Please address?

He cant rebound for sht. Please address?

He is often credited for being a good passer yet isnt in the top half of assist for our bigs let alone the whole team. Please address?

You wrote your smug post on how you would love to see these stats. Open your eyes. Im not making them up. All he does is shoot. He have plenty of guys who can do that and also provide in other areas. Any stat that isnt adjusted to include shooting suggests he is one of our worst player.

I find it laughable that people think he can start when players like Patrick Patterson outplay him. What's he going to do vs someone like Blake Griffin or David West?

Im not feeding into this charade that Mirza is anything but a backup.

F3LON wrote:How about addressing Mirza since we are talking about him and not Pierce or Lopez.

All of the stats I listed are adjusted for playing time.

Mirza doesnt produce.

He doesnt play good defense as shown by being last of all of our bigs in defensive rating. Please address?

He doesnt cause turnovers or block shots either. If you look at everyone else they are either good at blocking shots or stealing the ball. Please address?

What is there to address? We all know he isn't a defensive minded player. His offensive game is still good enough to be a starter. His defense at PF is any worse than Paul Pierce? No, it's not.

He cant rebound for sht. Please address?

Per 36 minutes:
5.9 DREB
6.9 TRB

Same as Paul Pierce. Same as Andray Blatche.

You wrote your smug post on how you would love to see these stats. Open your eyes. Im not making them up. All he does is shoot. He have plenty of guys who can do that and also provide in other areas. Any stat that isnt adjusted to include shooting suggests he is one of our worst player.

I find it laughable that people think he can start when players like Patrick Patterson outplay him. What's he going to do vs someone like Blake Griffin or David West?

Im not feeding into this charade that Mirza is anything but a backup.

Please tell me where these plenty of other big men on this team can shoot 39% from three and single handedly take over a basketball game? Where were these shooters/scorers in the playoffs? Mason Plumlee couldn't get minutes vs Miami. Garnett looked like an old scrub. Who was one of the two players that Miami couldn't guard? Mirza and Joe Johnson.

Plumlee at PF is still a complete risk that can fail even though I support the idea. He isn't a terrific rebounder or defender either until he shows progress and KG at PF is a joke at this point in his career. Who else makes sense as a fit next to Lopez? The guy who shot 39% from three.

Pierce Opponents PER: 18.1
Mirza Opponents PER: 18.5

You keep trying to ignore the Mirza/Pierce comparison but it needs to be mentioned. Pierce was never some defensive masterpiece when he was here. The reality is Mirza is about the same defensively which means we won't lose much ground with Mirza taking his minutes as the stretch four with guys like Kirilenko and Anderson getting more minutes on the perimeter.

Paradise wrote:

F3LON wrote:How about addressing Mirza since we are talking about him and not Pierce or Lopez.

All of the stats I listed are adjusted for playing time.

Mirza doesnt produce.

He doesnt play good defense as shown by being last of all of our bigs in defensive rating. Please address?

He doesnt cause turnovers or block shots either. If you look at everyone else they are either good at blocking shots or stealing the ball. Please address?

What is there to address? We all know he isn't a defensive minded player. His offensive game is still good enough to be a starter. His defense at PF is any worse than Paul Pierce? No, it's not.

He cant rebound for sht. Please address?

Per 36 minutes:
5.9 DREB
6.9 TRB

Same as Paul Pierce. Same as Andray Blatche.

You wrote your smug post on how you would love to see these stats. Open your eyes. Im not making them up. All he does is shoot. He have plenty of guys who can do that and also provide in other areas. Any stat that isnt adjusted to include shooting suggests he is one of our worst player.

I find it laughable that people think he can start when players like Patrick Patterson outplay him. What's he going to do vs someone like Blake Griffin or David West?

Im not feeding into this charade that Mirza is anything but a backup.

Please tell me where these plenty of other big men on this team can shoot 39% from three and single handedly take over a basketball game? Where were these shooters/scorers in the playoffs? Mason Plumlee couldn't get minutes vs Miami. Garnett looked like an old scrub. Who was one of the two players that Miami couldn't guard? Mirza and Joe Johnson.

Plumlee at PF is still a complete risk that can fail even though I support the idea. He isn't a terrific rebounder or defender either until he shows progress and KG at PF is a joke at this point in his career. Who else makes sense as a fit next to Lopez? The guy who shot 39% from three.

Pierce Opponents PER: 18.1
Mirza Opponents PER: 18.5

You keep trying to ignore the Mirza/Pierce comparison but it needs to be mentioned. Pierce was never some defensive masterpiece when he was here. The reality is Mirza is about the same defensively which means we won't lose much ground with Mirza taking his minutes as the stretch four with guys like Kirilenko and Anderson getting more minutes on the perimeter.

Mirza finished 6th or lower in every category. You compare his rebounding to Pierce and Blatche but they make up for poor rebounding by being good in some of the other catergories. Mirza does not. He is consistently in the bottom 3rd at everything.

Show me the good teams that even use their PF to only shoot 3pters. And how many games has Mirza singlehandly taken over? 3? Maybe 4? out of what 130 or so games? You want to start Mirza next to Lopez because he can shoot 3pters. What a joke. Who is going to rebound? Who is going to defend? Mirza and Lopez might be the worst combo we can throw out there since they share the same weaknesses. As good as Mirza shot on 3s, He still is a distant 2nd to Plumlee in TS%.

And dont bring up the playoffs and not talk about the Toronto series. Mirza was atrocious vs the Raptors. He had a couple of good games vs Miami but his career playoff numbers arent good. 43.9% FG and 33.9% from 3 in fact.

Lets compare Pierce to Mirza. Pierce was a SF playing out of position because Mirza wasnt good enough to start. Pierce shot much better from the field then Mirza

Pierce 45.1% FG
Mirza 40.9% FG

While Mirza shot slightly better from 3pt

Mirza 39%
Pierce 37.3%

But Pierce went to the line a TON more because he can actually do something besides spot up and isnt afraid of contact like Mirza.

Pierce 5.3 FTA/36
Mirza 1.6 FTA/36 (Embarrassingly low)

And it's why Pierce's TS% is much better then Mirza

Pierce 59.5% TS
Mirza 55.9% TS

Plus Pierce was a vastly superior passer

Pierce 3.1 Ast/36
Mirza 1.5 Ast/36

And they are not even close to the same on defense so WTF are you even talking about.

Pierce 106 DRtg
Mirza 109 DRtg

Pierce>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mirza

SO PLEASE STOP. You are speaking out of your azz on this. Nothing you are saying is supported by any facts.

The PF and SF positions are crap shoots. I'm all for giving Mirza the nod at the four. He's a free agent in 2015 and if he plays well he'd become a very valuable trading piece.

I'm in line for the Lopez/Plumlee frontcourt.

F3LON wrote:
Show me the good teams that even use their PF to only shoot 3pters.

Is this a serious question?

And how many games has Mirza singlehandly taken over? 3? Maybe 4? out of what 130 or so games?

Games against Dallas, Philadelphia, LAL, Miami, Atlanta, Detroit, Charlotte. Do I need to post the highlights? He helped us win games and dug us out of many large deficits.

You want to start Mirza next to Lopez because he can shoot 3pters. What a joke. Who is going to rebound? Who is going to defend? Mirza and Lopez might be the worst combo we can throw out there since they share the same weaknesses. As good as Mirza shot on 3s, He still is a distant 2nd to Plumlee in TS%.

The joke here is the logic that Garnett and Plumlee are better options next to Lopez when they BOTH don't defend very well or score consistently on the perimeter at PF and Plumlee is not a very good rebounder or defender yet. We're banking on him developing a jumper to transition to the PF position. Mirza is capable enough to overshadow his defensive shortcomings with his vastly superior offense. And for the love of god, stop with the Plumlee TS% comparison. He has a high TS% because all he does is dunk and finish layups. Even he knows he will need to do much more to even be in the conversation to be a Power Forward which is why he is working relentlessly on a jumpshot. Which is a myth until he actually shows he can shoot. Until then, Mirza is the safest bet at PF. Like it or not.

And dont bring up the playoffs and not talk about the Toronto series. Mirza was atrocious vs the Raptors. He had a couple of good games vs Miami but his career playoff numbers arent good. 43.9% FG and 33.9% from 3 in fact.

Lol Everyone not named Joe Johnson was just about atrocious in the playoffs. What point are you trying to prove? His first playoff experience and he didn't perform well. Shocker.

Lets compare Pierce to Mirza. Pierce was a SF playing out of position because Mirza wasnt good enough to start. Pierce shot much better from the field then Mirza

What a load of crap. Pierce was playing out of position because Garnett had to play Center and Livingston had to play SG. Mirza had NOTHING to do with it.

And they are not even close to the same on defense so WTF are you even talking about.

Pierce 106 DRtg
Mirza 109 DRtg

Pierce>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mirza

Opponents PER

Pierce at PF: 18.1
Mirza at PF: 18.5

Playoffs Rtg:

Pierce DRtg: 110
Mirza DRtg: 113


How isn't that similar numbers? There is no wide gap between any of their stats at Power Forward. Stop exaggerating.

SO PLEASE STOP. You are speaking out of your azz on this. Nothing you are saying is supported by any facts.

LOL.

I've actually used the same stats that you are using but the difference is I'm not picking and choosing the stats to post just to fuel a bias agenda. FYI, my facts are supported by Basketball Reference and 82games. Go look it up.

I'm not sure what the reason is for all the Mirza hate. The guy's per 36 numbers show that he will be a contributor to this team.

We frankly need his skills. I have no issue with him rotating in as a starter on nights when Brook is forced to sit.

Paradise wrote:

F3LON wrote:
Show me the good teams that even use their PF to only shoot 3pters.

Is this a serious question?

Yea it is. You act like it is important to have a PF who shoots 3s to space the floor because that is all Mirza does. What other team uses their PF like that. And please dont say Dirk because Dirk can post up and has that wrong legged jumper. Mirza cant score if he dribbles or posts up.

Paradise wrote:

And how many games has Mirza singlehandly taken over? 3? Maybe 4? out of what 130 or so games?

Games against Dallas, Philadelphia, LAL, Miami, Atlanta, Detroit, Charlotte. Do I need to post the highlights? He helped us win games and dug us out of many large deficits.

Please, Mirza has played well in roughly 25% of the games he has played in. Do I need to post the numerous games he shot 25%.

Paradise wrote:

You want to start Mirza next to Lopez because he can shoot 3pters. What a joke. Who is going to rebound? Who is going to defend? Mirza and Lopez might be the worst combo we can throw out there since they share the same weaknesses. As good as Mirza shot on 3s, He still is a distant 2nd to Plumlee in TS%.

The joke here is the logic that Garnett and Plumlee are better options next to Lopez when they BOTH don't defend very well or score consistently on the perimeter at PF and Plumlee is not a very good rebounder or defender yet. We're banking on him developing a jumper to transition to the PF position. Mirza is capable enough to overshadow his defensive shortcomings with his vastly superior offense. And for the love of god, stop with the Plumlee TS% comparison. He has a high TS% because all he does is dunk and finish layups. Even he knows he will need to do much more to even be in the conversation to be a Power Forward which is why he is working relentlessly on a jumpshot. Which is a myth until he actually shows he can shoot. Until then, Mirza is the safest bet at PF. Like it or not.

KG had the best Defensive Rating on the team. He was also the best rebounder on the team. Both KG and Plumlee were better defensively and rebounding then Mirza. That's not just logic; it is a fact.

We arent banking on Plumlee to shoot more. Why should he shoot more if teams cant stop him inside? This is your weakest argument. I want a player taking MORE shots from an area they elite at.

Paradise wrote:

And dont bring up the playoffs and not talk about the Toronto series. Mirza was atrocious vs the Raptors. He had a couple of good games vs Miami but his career playoff numbers arent good. 43.9% FG and 33.9% from 3 in fact.

Lol Everyone not named Joe Johnson was just about atrocious in the playoffs. What point are you trying to prove? His first playoff experience and he didn't perform well. Shocker.

We arent talking about everyone, we are talking about Mirza and how he performed in the Toronto series. You are trying to change the subject because he sucked. Dont reference Mirza's playing experience if you arent going to do the same w Plumlee. This wasnt Mirza's first playoff experience as a professional but it was Plumlee's. Plumlee is already a better player then Mirza and he is going into his second year. His career arc projects to be much higher then Mirza's.

Paradise wrote:

Lets compare Pierce to Mirza. Pierce was a SF playing out of position because Mirza wasnt good enough to start. Pierce shot much better from the field then Mirza

What a load of crap. Pierce was playing out of position because Garnett had to play Center and Livingston had to play SG. Mirza had NOTHING to do with it.

And they are not even close to the same on defense so WTF are you even talking about.

Pierce 106 DRtg
Mirza 109 DRtg

Pierce>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mirza

Opponents PER

Pierce at PF: 18.1
Mirza at PF: 18.5

Playoffs Rtg:

Pierce DRtg: 110
Mirza DRtg: 113


How isn't that similar numbers? There is no wide gap between any of their stats at Power Forward. Stop exaggerating.

You are missing the point with the Pierce comparison. Pierce shouldnt have been playing PF. Mirza is a natural PF. I would expect a PF to outplay a SF at his natural position but he didnt. He wasnt even close.

You are bringing up a 12 game sample as opposed to the 82 game sample and are passing them off as equal. And in case you dont know a 3 pt difference in DRtg is HUGE. A .4 difference in PER is not.

Paradise wrote:

SO PLEASE STOP. You are speaking out of your azz on this. Nothing you are saying is supported by any facts.

LOL.

I've actually used the same stats that you are using but the difference is I'm not picking and choosing the stats to post just to fuel a bias agenda. FYI, my facts are supported by Basketball Reference and 82games. Go look it up.

Your facts dont support anything you claimed. You brought up Playoff defensive rating which still had Pierce way ahead of Mirza. The other stat you used was virtually equal and you left out that

Pierce had a 20.7 PER as a PF
Mirza had a 15.5 PER as a PF

That would mean Pierce outplayed the opponents PF 20.7 - 18.1 = +2.6
While Mirza was outplayed at PF 15.5 - 18.5 = -3.0

That enforces my fact that Mirza isnt very good.

Oh by the way since Im using your stats from 82 games

Plumlee had a 19.5 PER at PF and only gave up a 13.8 PER. (+5.7) Why he is the best option at PF by a mile.