A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us)

[Prokorov]

And it all goes back to Deron Williams. When you are against a deadline, you overpay. Yes Atlanta was in a tax situation, but they were also in a winning situation. Winning basketball games does what? Bring in more money. Also, yes we should have got him for expiring contracts, but we don't know what others offered. Add the fact he was being traded in the same conference to a team that "looked" on the rise, picks were included to sweeten the pot.

you simply dont get it. everyone knows and agrees king made the move because of pressure to get williams to sign. we all agree he probably had to overpay.

but king didnt just overpay. he massively overpaid to a riddiculous level not seen before in league history. 2 picks and expirings for the worst contract in basketball is absurd. if it wasnt for the wallace trade, this would be looked at as the worst trade in over a decade. the hawks were completely depserate. no one was taking johnson off ferrys hands withut ferry giving them picks.

This is on king, it was a horrible deal that can not be justified in any way shape or form

You could tell the Nets weren't fully sure what was going to happen, hence the Gerald Wallace trade of that years pick (no point trading future picks if Deron doesn't re-sign).

Are you insane? they had a high lottery pick in one of the best drafts in years with an elite franchise player at the top. you 100% keep that pick.

They decided to go all in for Johnson and it backfired. Easy to criticize now but it's hardly was getting someone with "enormous negative trade value" at the time.

it was VERY EASY to criticize at the time of the trade. as everyone here did in fact criticize it as a bigtime overpay. the wallace de

I'm not sure what you do not get about this situation. Were you not a New Jersey Nets fan? Did you not watch year after year, players pass on us? I personally am a fan of rebuilding, and we were in the perfect position to do so, but you can't put the full blame on someone for being forced to make moves.

For the last time, king was not forced to massively overpay. Im fine that he traded for johnson. im fine he traded for wallace. im fine if he had to overpay for both.... im not fine that he both times paid 10 times more then he should have.

you simply dont understand the way the CBA works, and the value of players and picks. what king did was not overpay. what he did was so far beyond that it is mindboggling.

[Universe]

The entire situation wasn't helped by our hype of moving. Nets had such large expectations to live up to with the vast marketing campaign, which somewhat worked. In my 20 years living in Ontario, I never saw one person wearing New Jersey Nets gear. Not even at the New Jersey Nets games. Once the switch went over, I can't go a week without seeing someone wearing something Brooklyn related.

Would we have had the same marketing success without these moves? I don't know, but it was a trainwreck since we decided to trade with Utah.

[Universe]

And it all goes back to Deron Williams. When you are against a deadline, you overpay. Yes Atlanta was in a tax situation, but they were also in a winning situation. Winning basketball games does what? Bring in more money. Also, yes we should have got him for expiring contracts, but we don't know what others offered. Add the fact he was being traded in the same conference to a team that "looked" on the rise, picks were included to sweeten the pot.

you simply dont get it. everyone knows and agrees king made the move because of pressure to get williams to sign. we all agree he probably had to overpay.

but king didnt just overpay. he massively overpaid to a riddiculous level not seen before in league history. 2 picks and expirings for the worst contract in basketball is absurd. if it wasnt for the wallace trade, this would be looked at as the worst trade in over a decade. the hawks were completely depserate. no one was taking johnson off ferrys hands withut ferry giving them picks.

This is on king, it was a horrible deal that can not be justified in any way shape or form

You could tell the Nets weren't fully sure what was going to happen, hence the Gerald Wallace trade of that years pick (no point trading future picks if Deron doesn't re-sign).

Are you insane? they had a high lottery pick in one of the best drafts in years with an elite franchise player at the top. you 100% keep that pick.

They decided to go all in for Johnson and it backfired. Easy to criticize now but it's hardly was getting someone with "enormous negative trade value" at the time.

it was VERY EASY to criticize at the time of the trade. as everyone here did in fact criticize it as a bigtime overpay. the wallace de

I'm not sure what you do not get about this situation. Were you not a New Jersey Nets fan? Did you not watch year after year, players pass on us? I personally am a fan of rebuilding, and we were in the perfect position to do so, but you can't put the full blame on someone for being forced to make moves.

For the last time, king was not forced to massively overpay. Im fine that he traded for johnson. im fine he traded for wallace. im fine if he had to overpay for both.... im not fine that he both times paid 10 times more then he should have.

you simply dont understand the way the CBA works, and the value of players and picks. what king did was not overpay. what he did was so far beyond that it is mindboggling.

I seem to just be repeating myself so I'll agree to disagree.

Are you insane? they had a high lottery pick in one of the best drafts in years with an elite franchise player at the top. you 100% keep that pick.

Plus, I don't think you fully understand what protected picks mean. And also of course:

All-Star point guard Deron Williams has made one decision about his free agency: If the Brooklyn Nets win the No. 1 pick in the NBA's draft lottery on Wednesday night – and the chance to secure Kentucky center Anthony Davis – it won't be enough for Williams to sign a contract extension, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

"It's Dwight Howard or bust," said a league source who has spoken to Williams.

Again, Billy King screwed the pooch, but he is far from the captain of this sinking ship.

[Prokorov]

The entire situation wasn't helped by our hype of moving. Nets had such large expectations to live up to with the vast marketing campaign, which somewhat worked. In my 20 years living in Ontario, I never saw one person wearing New Jersey Nets gear. Not even at the New Jersey Nets games. Once the switch went over, I can't go a week without seeing someone wearing something Brooklyn related.

Would we have had the same marketing success without these moves? I don't know, but it was a trainwreck since we decided to trade with Utah.

you keep missing the point!

EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS KING WAS FORCED TO MAKE SHORTSIGHTED OVERPAYS FOR WIN NOW VETERANS!

this is not news. We know all the reason for the moves. we know it led to overpaying. but that is no excuse for the beyond massive overpays and idiotic moves king made.

you dont give a lotto pick for a guy who is going to be a free agent in 2 months.

you dont give an unprotected pick, pick swap, and 100% expirings for the leagues worst contract

those arent overpays, those are massive giant idiotic overpays. he could have got both a TONS less.

[NyCeEvO]

I do get it and the assumption that King "helped out a friend" is crazy. I don't think you get the situation we were in or the Hawks though.

Everyone stating that Hawks would just give Johnson away for free because of his contract, yet the Hawks had just posted 40-26 season with Johnson helping lead the team with nearly 19 points per game. It was also their fourth consecutive playoff appearance after missing the playoffs eight consecutive years before that.

Actually, i think it is you who dont understand the situation the hawks and nets were in. the hawks were against the tax, and desperate to move smith or johnson (by far the leagues worst contract at the time). Ferry wanted a mini rebuild. the nets had TONS of ELITE assets. they had expirings and better expirings with buyout options. nets also were under the cap and had 2 first round picks that year.

A BAD gm would have gotten joe johnson for just the expirings

an AVERAGE GM would have gotten a pick back from atlanta

We traded for one of the best players/scorers on a playoff team and got burnt. Yes it was an overpayment, but it was also a gamble and a panic move so we could secure our best player as well. The funny thing about it is, we are now seeing the same situation with Brook Lopez. He is the new gamble that could either backfire for a team, or strike gold.

the difference is no one in their right mind is giving an unprotected first and pick swap for brook lopez. and brook lopez doesnt havea 4 year 92M contract.

we traded for a player with enormous negative trade value, and we were the ones to give up draft picks in the deal. it was one of the biggest overpays if the past 15 years. it was so bad king tried to hide the pick swap originally. the fact that we would have to GIVE SOMEONE ELSE a first round pick to take johnson with 1/2 the contract he had when we obtained him goes to show what an overpay it was.

no team in the league would even give atlanta just expirings for johnson. ferry was screwed if king didnt bail him out. meanwhile we had all the assets to get other all-stars with our picks and expirings

And it all goes back to Deron Williams. When you are against a deadline, you overpay. Yes Atlanta was in a tax situation, but they were also in a winning situation. Winning basketball games does what? Bring in more money. Also, yes we should have got him for expiring contracts, but we don't know what others offered. Add the fact he was being traded in the same conference to a team that "looked" on the rise, picks were included to sweeten the pot.

LOL what?

It sounds like you're just trying to convince yourself that the moves were rational. Prokorov has thoroughly laid out how asinine the trades were as we have done many times since the day the deals went down.

You say "we don't know what others offered". What evidence is there that other teams offered in the first place? None. There are absolutely no reports to substantiate the idea that the Nets were competing with other teams for the services of Joe Johnson.

Can you please find one official statement from a reporter that actually suggests that the Nets were in competition. I'd love to see one.

You could tell the Nets weren't fully sure what was going to happen, hence the Gerald Wallace trade of that years pick (no point trading future picks if Deron doesn't re-sign).

So if you don't know what's going to happen, the best thing to do is to trade away a lottery pick? Portland fans already alerted us that Wallace was getting worse throughout the season and Portland was actually looking for an excuse to do something with him because they had a logjam at the SF spot with Batum, Wallace, Babbitt.

So again, Billy King indirectly helps out a team that actually was actually looking to get rid of a player. There's no same-conference logic here. It's just one of the worst trades in NBA history.

They decided to go all in for Johnson and it backfired. Easy to criticize now but it's hardly was getting someone with "enormous negative trade value" at the time.

I'm not sure what you do not get about this situation. Were you not a New Jersey Nets fan? Did you not watch year after year, players pass on us? I personally am a fan of rebuilding, and we were in the perfect position to do so, but you can't put the full blame on someone for being forced to make moves.

Except we were criticizing the deals since the days they occurred. Go back and look at the threads.

Wallace deal was ripped to shreds.

The JJ deal was ok until VC4P and JG discovered the pick swap deal that the Nets didn't make widely known. Once we found that out, we went nuts.

We kept saying that they were bad deals because they have the potential to blow up in our faces and become really bad.

In the same way that Billy King didn't foresee the potential of the players in the 2011 draft being better than Gerald Wallace (LOL), he did not foresee a situation in which could be hit with injuries and the Hawks could become a better team. His lack of foresight and his inability to accurately evaluate risk is what has put us in such a precarious state.

He did it to himself because he's a terrible GM. Plain and simple.

[Universe]

The entire situation wasn't helped by our hype of moving. Nets had such large expectations to live up to with the vast marketing campaign, which somewhat worked. In my 20 years living in Ontario, I never saw one person wearing New Jersey Nets gear. Not even at the New Jersey Nets games. Once the switch went over, I can't go a week without seeing someone wearing something Brooklyn related.

Would we have had the same marketing success without these moves? I don't know, but it was a trainwreck since we decided to trade with Utah.

you keep missing the point!

EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS KING WAS FORCED TO MAKE SHORTSIGHTED OVERPAYS FOR WIN NOW VETERANS!

this is not news. We know all the reason for the moves. we know it led to overpaying. but that is no excuse for the beyond massive overpays and idiotic moves king made.

you dont give a lotto pick for a guy who is going to be a free agent in 2 months.

you dont give an unprotected pick, pick swap, and 100% expirings for the leagues worst contract

those arent overpays, those are massive giant idiotic overpays. he could have got both a TONS less.

I'm not though. EVERYONE ALREADY KNEW KING MADE THESE MOVES TO KEEP DERON WILLIAMS. Plain and simple. You don't pull the trigger on the Joe Johnson deal, Deron Williams is in a Mavericks jersey and Billy King probably (wish it would have) lost his job. His only goal in that time frame was to do everything in his power to keep Williams happy and it worked.

Since then, it's been a steady and awkward amount of moves to repair the damage caused in keeping your star player on this team.

LOL what?

It sounds like you're just trying to convince yourself that the moves were rational. Prokorov has thoroughly laid out how asinine the trades were as we have done many times since the day the deals went down.

The moves weren't rational. They were to please a single player on a roster. And placing Prokorov and asinine in the same sentence is funny.

"How fast can we build a championship team? If everything goes as planned, I expect us to be in the playoffs next season and [win a] championship in one year minimum, and maximum in five years," said Prokhorov, approved May 11 as majority owner of the Nets.

Once again, re-read my comment about showing our hand, and maybe you'll understand the problem was much bigger than a GM making terrible deals.

[Prokorov]

I'm not though. EVERYONE ALREADY KNEW KING MADE THESE MOVES TO KEEP DERON WILLIAMS. Plain and simple. You don't pull the trigger on the Joe Johnson deal, Deron Williams is in a Mavericks jersey and Billy King probably (wish it would have) lost his job. His only goal in that time frame was to do everything in his power to keep Williams happy and it worked.

Since then, it's been a steady and awkward amount of moves to repair the damage caused in keeping your star player on this team.

for the billionth time.... it doesnt matter why he did the trade. no one has an issue with going after johnson or wallace. the issue is he massively overpaid in those deals. not overpaid, massively overpaid. so much so they will go down as 2 of the worst trades in league history type massive overpay.

Deron Williams is completely irrelevant. being forced to make a trade doesnt make it ok to give 50 times what you would normally give up. this isnt a situation where he paid 2 or 3 times the price. he paid like 50 times the price.


this is 110% on King. king was the one who offered these massive overpays. he was forced to try and get win now pieces. but he didnt have to pay anywhere near what he did

[MrDollarBills]

Williams was not leaving that cash on the table.

Even if King DID make the Johnson move, the fact that he added the pick swaps is the real killer.

[SpeedyG]

Williams was not leaving that cash on the table.

Even if King DID make the Johnson move, the fact that he added the pick swaps is the real killer.

The pick swap is hindsight talking. For a decade now, the Hawks have been the very definition of "treadmill". Most people didn't even pay attention to the pick swap because of how little a deal it was when the trade happened. Of course, us being the Nets, the year it goes in effect is the year the Hawks catch lightning in a bottle.

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

[lkitt0804]

The entire situation wasn't helped by our hype of moving. Nets had such large expectations to live up to with the vast marketing campaign, which somewhat worked. In my 20 years living in Ontario, I never saw one person wearing New Jersey Nets gear. Not even at the New Jersey Nets games. Once the switch went over, I can't go a week without seeing someone wearing something Brooklyn related.

Would we have had the same marketing success without these moves? I don't know, but it was a trainwreck since we decided to trade with Utah.

Even if you want to say it's Deron's fault the trades were made, why were we in a position to try to please him to resign with us anyways? BK knew Deron's Utah contract would end the year before the move to Brooklyn and he gambled that he could resign him.

Sure Deron said Dwight or bust but is Dwight here? And Deron still is. Deron is not the GM. It's on King to name Deron as the "assistant GM" and it was him who actually made the trades. If he actually did run the parameters of the trades by Deron to get his approval then it's still on King. Active players always fail when playing GM.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Prokorov]

The pick swap is hindsight talking.

how is it hindsight talking when this board was pissed off and bashing king once VC4P pointed out a pink swap was included a week or so after the deal went dwon?

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

how do you figure? the boston trade was the least of his bad trades....

#1 far and away is the Gerald Wallace trade. he should be fired on that move alone. everyone AT THE TIME said it was arguably the worst trade in league history given the circumstances.

#2 is easily joe johnons. we took on the leagues worst contract when no one else would tough it for pure expirings. and instead of getting first for it, we gave up firsts for it.

#3 id say is a tie between deron trade and KG/Pierce trade...

The deron trade was an overpay but an understandable one and one id do again. no one knew he'd fall off the map so quick and we needed someone to build around. the KG/Pierce trade was needed to maximize the return on a team capped out for 3 years. it was far and away the best talent we could infuse with our restrictions. without it we dont make the playoffs last year, with out KG we wont make it this year. while we still owe them 2 picks and a pick swap, we also gained karasev out of it and so far all they got was james white. i do that deal again 100 times out of 100

king is killed for the wallace and joe moves.

[MrDollarBills]

Williams was not leaving that cash on the table.

Even if King DID make the Johnson move, the fact that he added the pick swaps is the real killer.

The pick swap is hindsight talking. For a decade now, the Hawks have been the very definition of "treadmill". Most people didn't even pay attention to the pick swap because of how little a deal it was when the trade happened. Of course, us being the Nets, the year it goes in effect is the year the Hawks catch lightning in a bottle.

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

Hindsight? The pick swaps were the WORST thing about the Johnson trade. People were livid once a FAN had to uncover the details about it because the Nets, in their typical dishonesty, swept that right under the rug.

I mean losing flexibility and taking on one of the worst contract in the history of pros sports was one thing but at least Johnson has given us something, and had one of the best playoff campaigns individually in team history. But it was not worth the cost of adding a pick swap.

The Boston trade was a harsh gamble but I can accept it. Deron's trade as well.

The Johnson and Wallace moves are two of the worst trades in the history of the league.

[jeff1624]

Williams was not leaving that cash on the table.

Even if King DID make the Johnson move, the fact that he added the pick swaps is the real killer.

The pick swap is hindsight talking. For a decade now, the Hawks have been the very definition of "treadmill". Most people didn't even pay attention to the pick swap because of how little a deal it was when the trade happened. Of course, us being the Nets, the year it goes in effect is the year the Hawks catch lightning in a bottle.

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

Hindsight? The pick swaps were the WORST thing about the Johnson trade. People were livid once a FAN had to uncover the details about it because the Nets, in their typical dishonesty, swept that right under the rug.

I mean losing flexibility and taking on one of the worst contract in the history of pros sports was one thing but at least Johnson has given us something, and had one of the best playoff campaigns individually in team history. But it was not worth the cost of adding a pick swap.

The Boston trade was a harsh gamble but I can accept it. Deron's trade as well.

The Johnson and Wallace moves are two of the worst trades in the history of the league.

I agree completely.

The Deron trade is one I would do again without any hesitation. It brought us back a legit all star and it made us a desirable franchise to the best Center in the league. It didn't work out, but it was a gamble that was well worth the risk.

The Celtics trade is one that should have been done because we literally exhausted every other option and we were all in at the moment. My only complaint would be that King screwed the pooch by not re-signing Pierce because of the luxury tax, something he should have seen coming and prepared for before making the damn trade.

The Joe Johnson deal was terrible the moment it was announced. He was being given away by Atlanta and no other team had any interest in trading for him... so why did we jump the gun and trade for him in the first few days of free agency? Why not explore all your options (Harden was literally traded a couple months later) before committing to it? I don't believe for a second that Deron forced this trade. Deron was never gonna leave 30 mil on the table especially when Dallas never even offered him the full max. Had it been a good GM he would have played the waiting game to see what other good players were hitting the market. The deal is even worse with the TWO pick swaps. TWO.

The Wallace deal is probably the worst trade in NBA history. It potentially cost us one of Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard or James Harden. Seriously.

Man, King is a moron.

[MrDollarBills]

Deron didn't force any of those trades. King screwed up the moment he traded for Wallace. The season was lost once Howard waived his opt out option. Instead of being calm and letting things play out(especially since Williams was injured and had mentally checked out anyway), the Nets could have increased the chances of the pick becoming higher and used it as a trade chip for a player that was worth a damn(Harden??) instead of a small forward that was declining RAPIDLY. King traded for a name, and not for the actual player. Once he did that it was a mess from there. And to think the front office had their mouthpieces try to say that it was worth trading that pick for the right to overpay Gerald Wallace to the tune of 10 million a SEASON. It took pick swaps and first rd picks just to get that contract off of the books!!!

I'm still wondering how Atlanta didn't give US a pick to take back Johnson. Do you see what kind of trash the Nets have been offered for Lopez? And yet, our GM gives out picks to take players no one will trade for.

This team cannot be sold soon enough

[SpeedyG]

Williams was not leaving that cash on the table.

Even if King DID make the Johnson move, the fact that he added the pick swaps is the real killer.

The pick swap is hindsight talking. For a decade now, the Hawks have been the very definition of "treadmill". Most people didn't even pay attention to the pick swap because of how little a deal it was when the trade happened. Of course, us being the Nets, the year it goes in effect is the year the Hawks catch lightning in a bottle.

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

Hindsight? The pick swaps were the WORST thing about the Johnson trade. People were livid once a FAN had to uncover the details about it because the Nets, in their typical dishonesty, swept that right under the rug.

I mean losing flexibility and taking on one of the worst contract in the history of pros sports was one thing but at least Johnson has given us something, and had one of the best playoff campaigns individually in team history. But it was not worth the cost of adding a pick swap.

The Boston trade was a harsh gamble but I can accept it. Deron's trade as well.

The Johnson and Wallace moves are two of the worst trades in the history of the league.

So I'm guessing you're the only person in the world who had the Hawks with the best record in the East and the Nets fighting for the 8th seed when this season began?

[Prokorov]

The pick swap is hindsight talking. For a decade now, the Hawks have been the very definition of "treadmill". Most people didn't even pay attention to the pick swap because of how little a deal it was when the trade happened. Of course, us being the Nets, the year it goes in effect is the year the Hawks catch lightning in a bottle.

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

Hindsight? The pick swaps were the WORST thing about the Johnson trade. People were livid once a FAN had to uncover the details about it because the Nets, in their typical dishonesty, swept that right under the rug.

I mean losing flexibility and taking on one of the worst contract in the history of pros sports was one thing but at least Johnson has given us something, and had one of the best playoff campaigns individually in team history. But it was not worth the cost of adding a pick swap.

The Boston trade was a harsh gamble but I can accept it. Deron's trade as well.

The Johnson and Wallace moves are two of the worst trades in the history of the league.

So I'm guessing you're the only person in the world who had the Hawks with the best record in the East and the Nets fighting for the 8th seed when this season began?

that didnt need to be the situation for that to matter. us being worse then them is all it took.

and the bigger point is this... why are we GIVING a pick + pick swap in that deal on not GETTING them? we took on the most unmoveable contract in the league for 100% expirings. how we didint get a pick is insane.

[MrDollarBills]

The pick swap is hindsight talking. For a decade now, the Hawks have been the very definition of "treadmill". Most people didn't even pay attention to the pick swap because of how little a deal it was when the trade happened. Of course, us being the Nets, the year it goes in effect is the year the Hawks catch lightning in a bottle.

King overpaid, simply put. But to isolate the pick swap is just being revisionist. Heck, up until this season, the focus of "fire King" has been the picks he gave up to Boston...not the one to Atlanta.

Hindsight? The pick swaps were the WORST thing about the Johnson trade. People were livid once a FAN had to uncover the details about it because the Nets, in their typical dishonesty, swept that right under the rug.

I mean losing flexibility and taking on one of the worst contract in the history of pros sports was one thing but at least Johnson has given us something, and had one of the best playoff campaigns individually in team history. But it was not worth the cost of adding a pick swap.

The Boston trade was a harsh gamble but I can accept it. Deron's trade as well.

The Johnson and Wallace moves are two of the worst trades in the history of the league.

So I'm guessing you're the only person in the world who had the Hawks with the best record in the East and the Nets fighting for the 8th seed when this season began?

What does that have to do the objection to the Nets 2016 pick being swapped? People were livid about that WELL before the Hawks started tearing apart the league

[SpeedyG]

Please...you two are seriously going to argue that if we were picking 17th and the Hawks picking 20th, that there would be this massive outcry about the pick swap? Over 3 spots? In mid to early 20s of the draft? Come on now.

The reason, and the only reason...its such a big issue is that the Hawks are massively overachieving and we're massively underachieving.

[Prokorov]

Please...you two are seriously going to argue that if we were picking 17th and the Hawks picking 20th, that there would be this massive outcry about the pick swap? Over 3 spots? In mid to early 20s of the draft? Come on now.

The reason, and the only reason...its such a big issue is that the Hawks are massively overachieving and we're massively underachieving.

no, but if the hawks were the 8 seed and us the 9 seed and they ended up with say the #3 pick that would still be a huge deal. any scneario were we missed the playoffs and they made it had potential to be catasrophic.

also, it isnt just the pick swap. its the fact that we gave up picks and didnt get them. we should have had 2 first rounders after that trade instead of 0

[Prokorov]

Please...you two are seriously going to argue that if we were picking 17th and the Hawks picking 20th, that there would be this massive outcry about the pick swap? Over 3 spots? In mid to early 20s of the draft? Come on now.

The reason, and the only reason...its such a big issue is that the Hawks are massively overachieving and we're massively underachieving.

it doesn matter the hawks are the #1 seed. they could be the #8 seed. as long as they finsih ahead of us and we miss the playoffs its a big deal