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a lot of conversation recently about whether its the players or the coach. A lot fo claims that our offense shouldnt be this bad with all the talent we have. To see how that holds up i figure it might be a good excercize to rate our starters vs the league and see how talented we really are. i'll include mirza, brook, and dwil since they have all started:

NBA depth chart by position:
http://espn.go.com/nba/depth

PG: I've got a solid 15 ahead of both our guys [Wall, lowry, parker, collison, lillard, Dragic, westbrook, Holiday, conley, paul, curry, lawson, rondo, irving, Teague]

Jack - id put him 19th also behind Rose, Thomas and jennings
Williams - id put 21st behind also jack and walker

SG: I've got a solid 22 ahead of Karasev [Korver, bradley, henderson, butler, monte, afflalo, thompson,harden, kobe, wade, Giannis, Wiggins, Evans, Oladipo, bledsoe, wes mathews, Green, Ross, Beal, Hayward, Manu]

KArasev id put him at 25th also behind KCP and Hardaway Jr.

SF: I'd put just 2 clearly ahead of joe [Lebron, Durant, Carmello]

Johnson: I'd rank him 4th behind and right on par with rudy gay and just head of parsons

PF: I'd rank the following ahead of KG easily [milsap, love, gasol, dirk, faried, monroe, west, griffin, davis, zbo,ibaka, aldridge, duncan]

KG: id rank KG 17thbehind also amir, favors, young and nene
Mirza: id rank ahead of only Mbah a Moute, zeller, and whoever the knicks throw out there. so 26th

Center: I'd rank the following easy ahead of brook and plumlee [horford, noah, drummond, dwight, gasol, bosh, cousins]

Plumlee: id rank 10th behind also chandler and gortat

Lopez id rank 20th also behind chandler, gortat, vucevic, val, gortat, splitter, adams, hill, jordan, hibbert, thimpson.

So only one guy in the top 10 at hisposition and only 2 guys in the top 15/top half at their position. yet we are suppose to be some super talented team that should be alot better?

Also, keep in mind this only included listed starters i didnt even take into consideration guys like lance stephenson for example who hasnt been starting but is clearly better then karasev.

And while you may think ive been overly critical, even a conservative better case still has us bottom half of the league nearly everywhere

At Jack, Collison, Holiday and Walker being better than Deron.

at Joe being the 4th best SF.

Plumlee isn't better than Lopez. Neither is Adams, Hill, Splitter or Thompson.

Could you explain how you have Jack ahead of Deron? There is literally zero argument for that. Deron is extremely average, but he's better than Jarrett Jack.

You're also severely overrating Joe Johnson.

Deron is better than Jack, somewhere around 15-18

Karasev isn't top 30 likely. There's bench players better than him.

Joe is around 6-8. For all the complaining about Joe look at the crop of small forwards. 4 is too high, but you can't name 10 higher.

KG is around where you mention. Teletovic isn't top 30. I'd rather Patrick Patterson as a stretch 4.

Plumlee is a little overrated and Brook a little underrated here. They're both around average

kerry kittles wrote:Plumlee is a little overrated and Brook a little underrated here. They're both around average

From the Mainly-Irrelevant-Department: Before all is said and done (especially if Plumster stays a while), both will probably be mentioned in conversations about the Best Net Center Ever. Don't know what that says about the franchise...

I would take Collison, Walker, and Holiday over Williams

Look at what they are paid, what they produce, and then take a look at Deron. Deron has been a horrible investment.

enough is enough. These players **** ing stink. Lopez is better than some of those guys but that isn't saying much. Plumlee per 30+ mins gives the Nets more than what Lopez does on both ends of the floor.

Either way, Prok proved his point: IT'S THE PLAYERS. Aside from Johnson and Plumlee this roster isn't worth a damn

MrDollarBills wrote:I would take Collison, Walker, and Holiday over Williams

Look at what they are paid, what they produce, and then take a look at Deron. Deron has been a horrible investment.

enough is enough. These players **** ing stink. Lopez is better than some of those guys but that isn't saying much. Plumlee per 30+ mins gives the Nets more than what Lopez does on both ends of the floor.

Either way, Prok proved his point: IT'S THE PLAYERS. Aside from Johnson and Plumlee this roster isn't worth a damn

This.

I agree with most of these rankings, JJ does seem to be our most cerebral guy out there. Lopez is similar to Al Jefferson at this point to me, he changes the entire teams flow to feature him, hurting other team strengths. Main problem this team has is chemistry and building any sort of continuity. Its always a coaching change, major trade, or injury every year, of course they can't work together well as a group.

Okay if you wanna talk JJ:

Joe is good when we have above average talent around him that can hit shots around him. I'll blindly wager that when Atlanta in year's past made the playoffs, Joe wasn't playing with bums like Mirza and Bogdan. Or soft bitches like Lopez. Or just all around waste of time players like Deron Williams!

Last year when we hit our stride and potential(which was 2nd rd fodder), Johnson dominated with players around him that could shoot a solid clip.

This year, you have dudes bricking shots.

Joe Johnson is the LEAST of this team's worries.

jeff1624 wrote::lol: At Jack, Collison, Holiday and Walker being better than Deron.

First off, laughing without giving your own opinion on the ranking is kind of a cop out. Second, jack starts over deron on his own team and has better numbers as a starter then williams, who also hasnt been able to stay healthy.

I'm not sure how you wouldnt have Holiday over deron, considering his numbers are better in basically every category. Kemba you can argue, but even if you put williams over him, it is close

at Joe being the 4th best SF.

Again, look at the link provided and say who else you would have over joe. it isnt a very deep position.

Plumlee isn't better than Lopez. Neither is Adams, Hill, Splitter or Thompson.

Plumlee is better. his numbers as a starter are better. im not sure on this argument.

Adams is much better, hill is better, thompson is muc better. spitter you can argue its the system

Also, focus less on who I ranked above/below these guys and focus more on where i have them ranked.... maybe you dont agree on a few people, but in general i dont think anyone would have these players ranked significantly higher or lower

the point is, we have a team of average to below average players, with 1 top 10 type at his position who is 34 and leads the team in minutes.

the notion "we are too talented to be in this spot" is simply inaccurate

Prokorov wrote:Also, focus less on who I ranked above/below these guys and focus more on where i have them ranked.... maybe you dont agree on a few people, but in general i dont think anyone would have these players ranked significantly higher or lower

the point is, we have a team of average to below average players, with 1 top 10 type at his position who is 34 and leads the team in minutes.

the notion "we are too talented to be in this spot" is simply inaccurate

I think about 15-18 is accurate for Deron. Jack had a good stretch when he first started but he's coming down to earth. The fact that our offense looks terrible lately is partially on Jack. I don't think you can put Jack ahead of Deron though.


I think the losing has gotten to Joe. He's right now around the 8-10 range for SF. He's capable of being top 3-5 when he's playing his best. I think the heavy minutes have hit him pretty hard.


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Prokorov wrote:

jeff1624 wrote::lol: At Jack, Collison, Holiday and Walker being better than Deron.

First off, laughing without giving your own opinion on the ranking is kind of a cop out. Second, jack starts over deron on his own team and has better numbers as a starter then williams, who also hasnt been able to stay healthy.

I'm not sure how you wouldnt have Holiday over deron, considering his numbers are better in basically every category. Kemba you can argue, but even if you put williams over him, it is close

at Joe being the 4th best SF.

Again, look at the link provided and say who else you would have over joe. it isnt a very deep position.

Plumlee isn't better than Lopez. Neither is Adams, Hill, Splitter or Thompson.

Plumlee is better. his numbers as a starter are better. im not sure on this argument.

Adams is much better, hill is better, thompson is muc better. spitter you can argue its the system

When saying Jack has better numbers as a starter you have to realize the sample size is not that big. And consider when Deron was starting the two main offensive weapons were Brook and Joe who will receive the ball and try to create for themselves. I think a lot of Jack's assists goes to Plumlee. Before Deron went down with the calf injury and Plumlee was starting in place of Brook, Deron's assists numbers increased as well.

The bottom line though is that Deron needs to start shooting better and needs to stay healthy. 38% or whatever it's down to is simply killing the team because he really needs to be around 45-50% for us to be successful. He needs to finish better at the rim. I'm actually ok with his effort and his defense so far this year.

I wonder if Jack would be starting had Deron not go down with the calf injury. It wasn't a true demotion. Lopez you can view as a demotion because he would sit for close games during the fourth.


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Yeah overall D-Will's effort has been a lot better than year's past but the dude is just washed up imo.

Good take on how the Nets ended up in this mess:

Let’s look at those dumb moves.

1. Trading for Gerald Wallace. The Nets gave up a lottery pick for a guy who fell out of the rotation with the Blazers and was going to be a free agent. Then the Nets overpay him. So first dumb move the Nets trade a pick that would lead to Blazers drafting an all star point guard (something the Nets still don’t have) for the right to overpay Gerald Wallace.

2. The Nets trade for Joe Johnson. Look I don’t care how many clutch shots JJ hits he has the worst contract in the NBA and he is getting old and look at him now. He isn’t giving the Nets anything this season. The guy gets paid Lebron James money and is putting up Aaron Afflalo numbers and the Nets actually gave the Hawks a draft pick to take this horrible contract. Plus lets stop the whole "it’s not bad if you can afford it." because the Nets are doing trades just to relieve their taxes.

3. The Nets hired Jason Kidd. The Nets hired a rookie coach who was just playing basketball two months before to coach their team. The same guy who character was always in question. Instead of getting an establish coach they went for this guy because it was more of a splash. LOL look what happen a year later.

4. The Nets traded 3 unprotected first round picks to Boston for players who are done or close to be done. Then what’s worst they only kept one of them. So the trade was for nothing. The Nets screwed their entire team for what a Sports Illustrated Cover????

Being NBA Dumb is what got the Nets into this hole and Billy King and Proky are holding the shovels

Gotta agree with #3 as well. Hollins would have definitely had this team running on all cyclinders from the gate and even if we lost in the 2nd round so what? We weren't going to beat Miami regardless.

Dave D was right. The Russians are NBA DUMB and they hired an idiot GM to compound the problem

I wouldn't rank any of our best players in the top 10 at their positions. We have good players who could be great, but they can't seem to ever put together a complete, consistent effort.

Our team SHOULD resemble a Memphis Grizzlies type team with how all the players match up (Conley/Williams, Randolph/Lopez, Gasol/Garnett [defensively] and now Green/Johnson, etc.). They have the potential to, but they just fall flat game after game.

We shouldn't continue to expect much out of this team. We were poorly designed from the top to the bottom. We didn't get what we signed for when we gave DWill that money. Our GM cannot build a winning team and destroyed it's future in the process.

Basically we might have fun watching a game or two every few weeks, see glimpses of hope, and then we'll have our hopes bashed by our veteran's erratic play. I am on board with Hollins, I like how he's leaving his imprint all over this team, and I wish him luck after this season. But this season is a total wash and we'll be lucky to make the playoffs.

Yeah I'm on board with Hollins 100%. He needs a few seasons here to establish a culture and to also get the players that we need.

D-Will's acquisition was the deathblow for this franchise. We traded a ton of assets and made a lot of mistakes and it starts all with trading for this guy.