The state of the franchise

[Keith Van Horn]

How bad are things right now? And how much better can things get before next season comes?

This season's only purpose now is to let Hollins feel out his role as coach of this team and watch Plumlee develop. There is nothing to look forward to every night with the product we're being sold.

Our franchise player is always injured, our highest paid player cost us our future and he does a disappearing act every night, and our "star" center can't even get into the starting lineup anymore.

Here's a fun read from Zach Lowe on Grantland, part of an article on Al Horford (toward the end)

6. Watching the Nets

I can no longer live in a world where the Nets could make the playoffs, and two teams out of the Suns, Thunder, and Pelicans will stay home. This cannot be.

At least Brooklyn stands out — the moribund sloth in a league of fun, fast, invigorating teams. The Nets can’t drive the ball into the paint. They can’t finish there. They can’t shoot 3s outside the corners. They can’t find a two-man front line that works on both ends over long minutes. Poor Lionel Hollins can’t even decide whom to play anymore. Bojan Bogdanovic is back starting over Sergey Karasev. Hollins benched Mirza Teletovic in the second half until garbage time against Houston on Monday, swapping in Corey Jefferson instead just to see what the hell might happen.

Brook Lopez doesn’t get to the line anymore. Jarrett Jack’s 3-point shot has evaporated, and he’s breaking down under a heavier minutes burden while Deron Williams, the alleged franchise player, sits out with yet another nagging injury.

There are only five valid reasons to watch this team play basketball:

1. Mason Plumlee and his reverse dunks
2. Hollins’s wardrobe
3. You are a self-hating psychopath
4. You work for the Boston Celtics or the Atlanta Hawks and you need a pick-me-up
5. The faint possibility Kevin Garnett will do something crazy

The Pistons need to snag that no. 8 seed and FORM A **** WALL to prevent the Nets from touching it ever again.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/al-horford-atlanta-hawks-superstar/

Reason #4 hurts so bad but it's true. Can someone mail this in to Billy King and get his thoughts on it?

What can we do, what can we hope for moving forward? Seriously, all of this crap is almost reason enough to pledge allegiance to a different NBA team. It's sad, and things are only going to seem to get worse or stay the same before they get any better.

Thoughts?

[kerry kittles]

I agree with Lowe. I said many of these things last night. Looks like Prok is selling - thank God

[lkitt0804]

It really starts at the top of the organization. We had a historically bad year and a new owner wanting to move in two years. That forces our GM to over react on certain deals. Trading for Deron really wasn't that bad if he would have been on a longer deal in Utah and didn't hold a player option for that last year. That caused Billy to try to kiss Deron's ass because the Nets needed Deron inorder to make a splash in Brooklyn. You should never consult a player when making personnel move. There's a reason why you are the GM and the player is the player. The thought of moving to Brooklyn with out a "star" is what really put the franchise in the shape it is today. All the bad moves that were made was because the Nets needed a superstar or the franchise would have been eaten up by the Knicks. You can't blame Deron it's not like he went out of his way to tell Billy how to run thing so. Billy went to him because Billy needed Deron to resign with the Nets.

Going forward the good news is that the NBA is a superstar league. It's not like baseball or football where hitting on draft picks is essential. After next year we'll have cap space. I also think that Deron is pretty concern about his image and I'm sure all this negativity bothers him. I think he'll opt out after next season and signs for a lot less for a few more years - 3 years at about 7 million would be about right for how he's been playing. And this allows us to go after multiple big free agents for 2016. Sure we don't have rights to our draft picks for a while but it's not the end of the world. Players want to come play here because it's NYC. Would you guys rather be 12-70 or a 6-8 seed playoff team that's over paid which is what we are for the next two years at its worst.

[Prokorov]

i dont think the sky is fallling. not much is different today then it was a month ago. we are still 2 games up on a playoff spot, and our finciails still line up the same in '15 and '16

we need a trade to keep us playoff relative. we need to get the hornets on the phone and move lopez.

there are too many games left and we arent even out of a spot yet as yo where we need to panic on a grand scale

[Freddie Mitch]

It really starts at the top of the organization. We had a historically bad year and a new owner wanting to move in two years. That forces our GM to over react on certain deals. Trading for Deron really wasn't that bad if he would have been on a longer deal in Utah and didn't hold a player option for that last year. That caused Billy to try to kiss Deron's ass because the Nets needed Deron inorder to make a splash in Brooklyn. You should never consult a player when making personnel move. There's a reason why you are the GM and the player is the player. The thought of moving to Brooklyn with out a "star" is what really put the franchise in the shape it is today. All the bad moves that were made was because the Nets needed a superstar or the franchise would have been eaten up by the Knicks. You can't blame Deron it's not like he went out of his way to tell Billy how to run thing so. Billy went to him because Billy needed Deron to resign with the Nets.

Going forward the good news is that the NBA is a superstar league. It's not like baseball or football where hitting on draft picks is essential. After next year we'll have cap space. I also think that Deron is pretty concern about his image and I'm sure all this negativity bothers him. I think he'll opt out after next season and signs for a lot less for a few more years - 3 years at about 7 million would be about right for how he's been playing. And this allows us to go after multiple big free agents for 2016. Sure we don't have rights to our draft picks for a while but it's not the end of the world. Players want to come play here because it's NYC. Would you guys rather be 12-70 or a 6-8 seed playoff team that's over paid which is what we are for the next two years at its worst.

You're deluding yourself if you think he's going to opt out of a contract where he will get paid 21 million in one year year alone, to sign a contract that will pay him that much money in 3 years. Nobody is going to walk away from that type of money no matter what his image perception is. Especially since he is already 30 and just average, he's never going to see that much money again. You guys are stuck with him till the end of his current contract he's not opting out.

[Keith Van Horn]

i dont think the sky is fallling. not much is different today then it was a month ago. we are still 2 games up on a playoff spot, and our finciails still line up the same in '15 and '16

we need a trade to keep us playoff relative. we need to get the hornets on the phone and move lopez.

there are too many games left and we arent even out of a spot yet as yo where we need to panic on a grand scale

A lot of people thought we could compete this year in a wide open East. We are not even close. Many of us thought we could be behind the Cavs and the Bulls in the East... how laughable of a thought is that now. If we get in to the playoffs we will lose in straight games. This team is awful. We need to start thinking about next year and after.

-Probably can't move Deron this year b/c of his contract and value
-I agree that we should still look to make a trade now... I said before that no trade could help us, but that was out of frustration. JJ and Lopez CAN most likely be moved. Try to get someone on a more friendly contract who can help us (I. Thomas, Stephenson, etc.), or expirings, or first round picks
-Let Hollins continue to do his thing and give him a big say in who to target in the offseason

And if Proky is selling, hope to god we find a seller soon and fire the GM and leave the coach.

I agree that we should still look to make a trade now... I said before that no trade could help us, but that was out of frustration.

[Keith Van Horn]

It really starts at the top of the organization. We had a historically bad year and a new owner wanting to move in two years. That forces our GM to over react on certain deals. Trading for Deron really wasn't that bad if he would have been on a longer deal in Utah and didn't hold a player option for that last year. That caused Billy to try to kiss Deron's ass because the Nets needed Deron inorder to make a splash in Brooklyn. You should never consult a player when making personnel move. There's a reason why you are the GM and the player is the player. The thought of moving to Brooklyn with out a "star" is what really put the franchise in the shape it is today. All the bad moves that were made was because the Nets needed a superstar or the franchise would have been eaten up by the Knicks. You can't blame Deron it's not like he went out of his way to tell Billy how to run thing so. Billy went to him because Billy needed Deron to resign with the Nets.

Going forward the good news is that the NBA is a superstar league. It's not like baseball or football where hitting on draft picks is essential. After next year we'll have cap space. I also think that Deron is pretty concern about his image and I'm sure all this negativity bothers him. I think he'll opt out after next season and signs for a lot less for a few more years - 3 years at about 7 million would be about right for how he's been playing. And this allows us to go after multiple big free agents for 2016. Sure we don't have rights to our draft picks for a while but it's not the end of the world. Players want to come play here because it's NYC. Would you guys rather be 12-70 or a 6-8 seed playoff team that's over paid which is what we are for the next two years at its worst.

You're deluding yourself if you think he's going to opt out of a contract where he will get paid 21 million in one year year alone, to sign a contract that will pay him that much money in 3 years. Nobody is going to walk away from that type of money no matter what his image perception is. Especially since he is already 30 and just average, he's never going to see that much money again. You guys are stuck with him till the end of his current contract he's not opting out.

Agreed. The only way we could move Deron is if we traded picks (None left to trade for 5 years!) or if we give up Plumlee too, and that's a big negative b/c he's the only bright spot there is.

[Shook Jones]

This is why I want a deal to be made. This team is boring!!!! I know I wont miss anything exciting besides a Plumlee dunk now when I walk away from the TV.

Get Lance get Green get Eric Gordon. Get people who can get into the paint!

This team is going to flounder until it is sold, a new GM is brought in and we get max money freed, and hopefully we can finally get a star player in the draft.

[CalamityX12]

Billy King is so awful, he made his own boss, the owner, want to sell the team...

wow

[Shook Jones]

Billy King is so awful, he made his own boss, the owner, want to sell the team...

wow

Not true. King was on orders from above all the time. This is what Kidd wanted to kill. He wanted control of the NBA decisions. Kidd was right this team had no direction and was just opportunistic. This was a toy to Proky thats it.

[MrDollarBills]

Billy King is so awful, he made his own boss, the owner, want to sell the team...

wow

Not true. King was on orders from above all the time. This is what Kidd wanted to kill. He wanted control of the NBA decisions. Kidd was right this team had no direction and was just opportunistic. This was a toy to Proky thats it.

the Larry Sanders trade rumor aside, I agree, Kidd wanted to end that nonsense.

Well, here we are now

[lkitt0804]

It really starts at the top of the organization. We had a historically bad year and a new owner wanting to move in two years. That forces our GM to over react on certain deals. Trading for Deron really wasn't that bad if he would have been on a longer deal in Utah and didn't hold a player option for that last year. That caused Billy to try to kiss Deron's ass because the Nets needed Deron inorder to make a splash in Brooklyn. You should never consult a player when making personnel move. There's a reason why you are the GM and the player is the player. The thought of moving to Brooklyn with out a "star" is what really put the franchise in the shape it is today. All the bad moves that were made was because the Nets needed a superstar or the franchise would have been eaten up by the Knicks. You can't blame Deron it's not like he went out of his way to tell Billy how to run thing so. Billy went to him because Billy needed Deron to resign with the Nets.

Going forward the good news is that the NBA is a superstar league. It's not like baseball or football where hitting on draft picks is essential. After next year we'll have cap space. I also think that Deron is pretty concern about his image and I'm sure all this negativity bothers him. I think he'll opt out after next season and signs for a lot less for a few more years - 3 years at about 7 million would be about right for how he's been playing. And this allows us to go after multiple big free agents for 2016. Sure we don't have rights to our draft picks for a while but it's not the end of the world. Players want to come play here because it's NYC. Would you guys rather be 12-70 or a 6-8 seed playoff team that's over paid which is what we are for the next two years at its worst.

You're deluding yourself if you think he's going to opt out of a contract where he will get paid 21 million in one year year alone, to sign a contract that will pay him that much money in 3 years. Nobody is going to walk away from that type of money no matter what his image perception is. Especially since he is already 30 and just average, he's never going to see that much money again. You guys are stuck with him till the end of his current contract he's not opting out.

Yeah maybe I'm being delusional. The point is that we've seen players take less money to try to win. He's already said that he knows he let people down. Taking less money to sign a couple of max players or key players could happen. Maybe it's not 3/7 per. Maybe it's 2/12 per. Anyways even if he doesn't opt out we'll still have money for a max contract. NYC is a place players would want to come play.


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[Paradise]

It really starts at the top of the organization. We had a historically bad year and a new owner wanting to move in two years. That forces our GM to over react on certain deals. Trading for Deron really wasn't that bad if he would have been on a longer deal in Utah and didn't hold a player option for that last year. That caused Billy to try to kiss Deron's ass because the Nets needed Deron inorder to make a splash in Brooklyn. You should never consult a player when making personnel move. There's a reason why you are the GM and the player is the player. The thought of moving to Brooklyn with out a "star" is what really put the franchise in the shape it is today. All the bad moves that were made was because the Nets needed a superstar or the franchise would have been eaten up by the Knicks. You can't blame Deron it's not like he went out of his way to tell Billy how to run thing so. Billy went to him because Billy needed Deron to resign with the Nets.

Going forward the good news is that the NBA is a superstar league. It's not like baseball or football where hitting on draft picks is essential. After next year we'll have cap space. I also think that Deron is pretty concern about his image and I'm sure all this negativity bothers him. I think he'll opt out after next season and signs for a lot less for a few more years - 3 years at about 7 million would be about right for how he's been playing. And this allows us to go after multiple big free agents for 2016. Sure we don't have rights to our draft picks for a while but it's not the end of the world. Players want to come play here because it's NYC. Would you guys rather be 12-70 or a 6-8 seed playoff team that's over paid which is what we are for the next two years at its worst.

You're deluding yourself if you think he's going to opt out of a contract where he will get paid 21 million in one year year alone, to sign a contract that will pay him that much money in 3 years. Nobody is going to walk away from that type of money no matter what his image perception is. Especially since he is already 30 and just average, he's never going to see that much money again. You guys are stuck with him till the end of his current contract he's not opting out.

Yeah maybe I'm being delusional. The point is that we've seen players take less money to try to win. He's already said that he knows he let people down. Taking less money to sign a couple of max players or key players could happen. Maybe it's not 3/7 per. Maybe it's 2/12 per. Anyways even if he doesn't opt out we'll still have money for a max contract. NYC is a place players would want to come play.


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The Nets want him gone. If Deron opts out, he will not be coming back.

[Prokorov]

Yeah maybe I'm being delusional. The point is that we've seen players take less money to try to win. He's already said that he knows he let people down. Taking less money to sign a couple of max players or key players could happen. Maybe it's not 3/7 per. Maybe it's 2/12 per. Anyways even if he doesn't opt out we'll still have money for a max contract. NYC is a place players would want to come play.


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you take less money to win when you are joining wade/bosh/lebron in miami. you take less money to win when you join Rondo/Allen/KG/Pierce. you take less money to win when you are joining Kobe/Shaq.

you dont take less money to win going back to the team you have done nothing but severely underachieve on. there is 0 shot deron does that. it makes no sense.

also why would you turn down 1Y/21M for 3Y/21M? thats not taking less thats being financially irresponsible

[Prokorov]

Yeah maybe I'm being delusional. The point is that we've seen players take less money to try to win. He's already said that he knows he let people down. Taking less money to sign a couple of max players or key players could happen. Maybe it's not 3/7 per. Maybe it's 2/12 per. Anyways even if he doesn't opt out we'll still have money for a max contract. NYC is a place players would want to come play.


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you take less money to win when you are joining wade/bosh/lebron in miami. you take less money to win when you join Rondo/Allen/KG/Pierce. you take less money to win when you are joining Kobe/Shaq.

you dont take less money to win going back to the team you have done nothing but severely underachieve on. there is 0 shot deron does that. it makes no sense.

also why would you turn down 1Y/21M for 3Y/21M? thats not taking less thats being financially irresponsible

[lkitt0804]

Yeah maybe I'm being delusional. The point is that we've seen players take less money to try to win. He's already said that he knows he let people down. Taking less money to sign a couple of max players or key players could happen. Maybe it's not 3/7 per. Maybe it's 2/12 per. Anyways even if he doesn't opt out we'll still have money for a max contract. NYC is a place players would want to come play.


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you take less money to win when you are joining wade/bosh/lebron in miami. you take less money to win when you join Rondo/Allen/KG/Pierce. you take less money to win when you are joining Kobe/Shaq.

you dont take less money to win going back to the team you have done nothing but severely underachieve on. there is 0 shot deron does that. it makes no sense.

also why would you turn down 1Y/21M for 3Y/21M? thats not taking less thats being financially irresponsible

The 3 for 21 is too low. But 2 for 25 or 3 for 30 allows him to get a little bit more money guaranteed and it allows the team to do a little bit more his option year. It's close to the same situation as Lopez this year that was stated in the other thread.


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[Prokorov]

Yeah maybe I'm being delusional. The point is that we've seen players take less money to try to win. He's already said that he knows he let people down. Taking less money to sign a couple of max players or key players could happen. Maybe it's not 3/7 per. Maybe it's 2/12 per. Anyways even if he doesn't opt out we'll still have money for a max contract. NYC is a place players would want to come play.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

you take less money to win when you are joining wade/bosh/lebron in miami. you take less money to win when you join Rondo/Allen/KG/Pierce. you take less money to win when you are joining Kobe/Shaq.

you dont take less money to win going back to the team you have done nothing but severely underachieve on. there is 0 shot deron does that. it makes no sense.

also why would you turn down 1Y/21M for 3Y/21M? thats not taking less thats being financially irresponsible

The 3 for 21 is too low. But 2 for 25 or 3 for 30 allows him to get a little bit more money guaranteed and it allows the team to do a little bit more his option year. It's close to the same situation as Lopez this year that was stated in the other thread.


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3 for 30 is still a horrible trade of for him.

that would mean he doesnt think he could get a 2 year/8 Million deal.. even horrible washed up scrub backup journeyman PGs can get 4M per. he would be leaving millions upon millions on the table.

And thats even if he can get 3/30. he might end up with 3/24 and really end up screwed.

you dont opt out of 1/22 when you will never see max money again.

[Lamak]

I think we're stuck in a bad spot because we're not exactly building around one person an aren't championship ready with who we have currently. We need some form of direction.

[reignfire]

King and the Russian really mortgaged this team's future.

[LOUiS-D]

I think we're stuck in a bad spot because we're not exactly building around one person an aren't championship ready with who we have currently. We need some form of direction.

We are stuck. We might be able to trade for better fit, but we can't trade for better talent. Letting Pierce and Livingston walk demonstrated that the purse strings have tightened, so we're likely to continue have problems with depth short of finding diamonds in the rough.

There's no point sucking until we can actually draft again. I'm inclined to ride these guys out and commit to them. End the speculation. Let the coaching staff and the players work through it. Would Lopez, Williams or JJ's trade value be much lower right now if they got career ending injuries? Maybe you could pry away a late first rounder for one of them if you're lucky.

The direction in my mind is to not give high lottery picks to those heartless GMs who fleeced poor innocent Billy. It's pretty clear that he doesn't know any better.