The 15-16' Nets Point Guard Platoon of Doom Thread

[MrDollarBills]

Figured that this situation deserves its own thread now and during the season. Lets talk about the platoon.

Jack/Larkin/Sloan

Right now the only player I'm not concerned about is Sloan. He will give us good bench minutes, we know what to expect from him as a solid back up. I have him penciled in as #2 on the depth chart.

Jack and Larkin are huge concerns. Number 1, Jack's defense is horrible and Larkin's size will cause problems against bigger, physical points. I'd say a prayer for him if he ever has to check a beast like Russel Westbrook.

On top of Jack's bad defense, he will have to show us if he can get the ball moving. We all know that he can attack and score, and that's great and should be utilized when the time calls for it but the priority is to push the ball in transition, hitting open guys, getting Lopez the ball off of the PnR/PnP and when he is cutting towards the rim for scores. Can he do that? I have no clue or much hope here. The second issue is that Jack was primarily pulling up from midrange. We will need him to help space the floor. Not holding my breath.

Larkin is the one who everyone should be hoping for to succeed. He is lightning fast, and will focus on getting the ball to our scorers. Problem is, again defensively he could be a liability due to his size and offensively he tends to get himself into trouble sometimes on drives, there are times where I've seen him out of control when he gets into the paint and he turns it over. Also, can he become a 33-36% 3pt shooter?

If we had the option to fuse Jack and Larkin into one player we'd be fine

[Prokorov]

jack will play huge minutes all year. he is the leader of this team and hollins loves him. he wont be jerked from the lineup. especially on a team with low expectations.

larkin and sloan, hollins will go with whoever plays stronger at the given moment, i expect both to be constantly in and out of the liineup.

only way i see anything changing is if there is a trade. all 3 of those guys are 1 dimensional backups with extremely low ceilings

[Paradise]

I'd roll with Larkin as a starter until he proves otherwise. I don't care about experience. He's not a ball hog and he actually knows how to pass. Larkin's biggest growth has to be shooting consistency and ball security when driving to the rim. I'd take that over Jack who will simply chuck mid range jumpers for offense instead of letting everyone get touches.

Sloan doesn't do much for me. I would rather have Miller for the final roster spot anyhow.

[Prokorov]

I'd roll with Larkin as a starter until he proves otherwise. I don't care about experience. He's not a ball hog and he actually knows how to pass. Larkin's biggest growth has to be shooting consistency and ball security when driving to the rim. I'd take that over Jack who will simply chuck mid range jumpers for offense instead of letting everyone get touches.

Sloan doesn't do much for me. I would rather have Miller for the final roster spot anyhow.

Ball security and shooting are 2 enormous things. they shouldnt be footnotes. your starting point gaurd cant be a guy who plays offball as the offense runs through someone else if he cant shoot, secure the ball, or defend.

Jack is not a good player. Neither is larkin. Jack at least is a leader and has played here a season so there is at least some continuty with him. jack has no business starting on this team. but neither does larkin, and we arent sure yet if larkin even has any business being in the rotation.

Larkin need to prove he belongs in the rotation or prove he should start. he shouldnt be handed anythinig, since he has been pretty awful in a very short career.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm giving Larkin a clean slate because that Knicks team was a mess last year and the triangle is a bogus offense, it never worked without HOF players anchoring it and any PGs in that offense were just catch and shoot players.

That said, being out of control when getting into the paint is a red flag and had nothing to do with the offense or personnel, and that's what I will be watching for. The guy is scrappy. We'll see how he does, but whoever plays the best out of the 3 and can get Lopez the ball should start.

[SIC]

I posted this in the other thread but I will post it here too.

I think Larkin should start.

i dont care what he has done the past two years or not done. I dont care about Phil's BS excuse about his hands are too small or the fact he is only 5'11. I dont care what Knicks fans are saying ALMOST all of the time.

The reason why I think Larkin should start is very simple. Jack sucks and he is NOT going to be around very long. I would rather take a shot at Larkin than having Jack think he is Lebron Gaines. The reality is if we had draft Wright or Gerald Grant or any rookie PG, we would be having the same discussion. Most of us would be calling for the Rookie to eventually take over especially with DWill buyout.

I like referring to the old saying and I think it stands true which is that it takes PGs longer to develop than other positions. They usually say it takes at least three years for PGs to get it. I am not saying larkin will become Chris Paul or any good PG that struggled his first two years like Billups or Conley. I am saying that Larkin is heading to his third year after being injured his first year missing training camp and then joining the disfunctional Knicks team that from the very beginning didnt want him and were still trying to figure out the triangle.

yeah larkin isnt the ideal PG we would want but IMO Larkin should be given the reigns because we know what Jack is and Jack is NOT our future PG. Larkin may not be that much of a better choice but he is younger and Hollins can to mold him into a serviceable PG like what he did to Conley . I would rather spend time developing Larkin and HOPE he becomes something than waste time with Jack who we already know who he is and most likely wont be around for long.

[kerry kittles]

Our 1st 11 games are very tough. If we are to make the playoffs this year, a bit of a long shot, it's got to be with Jack being more of a facilitator and starting.

I'm not confident in Larkin starting to begin the year. He lacks chemistry with the players, and really hasn't proven himself to be a good player. I think he's be way over his head starting from day 1.

At least with Jack lineup it's players that played together. His +\- numbers were awful, but that Jack/Bogs/Joe/Thad/Brook lineup at least showed some fight against the Hawks.

[Paradise]

I'd roll with Larkin as a starter until he proves otherwise. I don't care about experience. He's not a ball hog and he actually knows how to pass. Larkin's biggest growth has to be shooting consistency and ball security when driving to the rim. I'd take that over Jack who will simply chuck mid range jumpers for offense instead of letting everyone get touches.

Sloan doesn't do much for me. I would rather have Miller for the final roster spot anyhow.

Ball security and shooting are 2 enormous things. they shouldnt be footnotes. your starting point gaurd cant be a guy who plays offball as the offense runs through someone else if he cant shoot, secure the ball, or defend.

Jack is not a good player. Neither is larkin. Jack at least is a leader and has played here a season so there is at least some continuty with him. jack has no business starting on this team. but neither does larkin, and we arent sure yet if larkin even has any business being in the rotation.

Larkin need to prove he belongs in the rotation or prove he should start. he shouldnt be handed anythinig, since he has been pretty awful in a very short career.

So, Jack should be handed something? We're basing this on what we know about them right now. Jack simply is a shoot first, pass later guard. Larkin is not. Jack doesn't thrive in uptempo offense, Larkin does. Jack has no foot speed. Larkin does. One is 31 and the other is 22. I'm pretty sure I'd expect improvement in one more likely than the other in terms of shooting consistency or ball security.

Obviously, Lionel will experiment with both in different starting lineups during preseason but I'd rather give Larkin a chance before Jack. We've seen Jack start already.

[SIC]

I wanted BKing to draft a PG in past draft.

I would be saying the same thing if we had gotten Wright or Grant. I would be saying the same thing if we got Jones, Rozier and even Joseph Young.

The bottomline is Nets IMO would have had to take a chance on those options too because Jack is just NOT the answer.

The only positive with Larkin is he has NBA experience where the rookies would not have had. Even though the experience hasnt been great for Larkin it is still MORE than what a rookie PG would have had and I would be calling for him to start TOO. There is no reason to baby any of these young guys. If we are going to lose games, might as well be with the young guys and have them figure things out among themselves.

Anyway BKing and Hollins wants Lopez to be a LEADER then send out the young guys with him and have him lead.

Give Lopez Larkin, bogs and RHJ and let him guide these guys to what HE wants them to be instead of having Jack and JJ on the court where Lopez can automatically defer.

Larkin, Bogs, RHJ, Thad, Lopez let them figure it out. I can see a lot of running with this squad with the way larkin, Bogs, RHJ and thad likes to cut off passing lanes to help out the PnR Game of Larkin, Lopez and Thad. I would even run some PnR with RHJ in some possessions to get RHJ involved in the offenses by attacking the basket and dishing it off to Bogs, Thad and Lopez for jumpers.

Jack, Brown, JJ, TRob, Barg can be the second unit. They would be playing against weaker second units and would be able to put up A LOT of points to help whatever the Starting lineup lacks.

[MrDollarBills]

Larkin/Bogs/RHJ/Thad/Lopez = speed mixed with athleticism at both forwards spots, two scorers, and your 2, 3, and 4 man will all run with the PG. Your 3 man can defend all of the perimeter positions. Could be a bad mix in halfcourt sets if Larkin/Thad cannot hit shots. Added bonus, your 3 man can rebound and initiate the break. I want to see this line up on the floor in preseason to get a look.

Jack/Bojan/Joe/Thad/Lopez = no transition game, one athlete, horrific perimeter defense, but they will bring it against the opponents on offense. These guys will probably be closing games out as they are top heavy offensively and the most mature line up.

[jbeachboy]

sloan will beat out jack and larkin when its all said and done

[SIC]

I am really hyped about this team and RHJ.

My only concern is that RHJ doesnt fulfill my expectations like TWill didnt. I was really high on TWill too.

I consider both of these guys to be All Around SFs that play both ends of the floor. Yeah they are not great shooters but they were both well rounded players.

Before finding out about his issues, TWill was a triple double waiting to happen. He had athletism, he could pass the ball, he could score and he had the tools to be a very good defender. TWill had the potential to become a Point Forward.

RHJ is a better defender, athletic and can pass the ball. Clearly right now we dont have to worry about RHJ's character issues, because he is clearly not a Nut job like TWill was.

I am still high on RHJ and think he will be better than TWill, but I just have to regulate my expectations at least for this season.

[MrDollarBills]

RHJ appears to have his head screwed on straight, whereas T-Will was an immature jackass and was scared of contact in the paint. I think he'll be fine.

[jbeachboy]

I am really hyped about this team and RHJ.

My only concern is that RHJ doesnt fulfill my expectations like TWill didnt. I was really high on TWill too.

I consider both of these guys to be All Around SFs that play both ends of the floor. Yeah they are not great shooters but they were both well rounded players.

Before finding out about his issues, TWill was a triple double waiting to happen. He had athletism, he could pass the ball, he could score and he had the tools to be a very good defender. TWill had the potential to become a Point Forward.

RHJ is a better defender, athletic and can pass the ball. Clearly right now we dont have to worry about RHJ's character issues, because he is clearly not a Nut job like TWill was.

I am still high on RHJ and think he will be better than TWill, but I just have to regulate my expectations at least for this season.

did terrence williams have these character and work ethic issues at louisville and high school? yeah i like that its character guys and not poor attitude guys like dwill

[Prokorov]

So, Jack should be handed something? We're basing this on what we know about them right now. Jack simply is a shoot first, pass later guard. Larkin is not. Jack doesn't thrive in uptempo offense, Larkin does. Jack has no foot speed. Larkin does. One is 31 and the other is 22. I'm pretty sure I'd expect improvement in one more likely than the other in terms of shooting consistency or ball security.

jack isnt being handed anything. he played for us last season. he at least gives us continuity and leadership.

what does larking give us? jack might be shoot first but what is larkin? suck first? larkin doesnt really do anything well, doesnt maintain any continuity, hasnt shown to be a leader on the team, and certainly hasnt shown he deserves to be a starter. jack sucks. he will be the worst starting PG in the NBA. but larkin is trash as well. being 22 years old to me is irrelevant. he will get plenty of playing time, if he proves he can be on the court he will get more minutes... but as of now he is an undersized gaurd who doesnt shoot, pass, score, defend, or rebound.

Obviously, Lionel will experiment with both in different starting lineups during preseason but I'd rather give Larkin a chance before Jack. We've seen Jack start already.

i dont think larkin will get any consideration to start from hollins. jack is hollins guy. he is going to ride with him until jack forces his hand or larkin plays so well he cant ignore it

[Prokorov]

I wanted BKing to draft a PG in past draft.

I would be saying the same thing if we had gotten Wright or Grant. I would be saying the same thing if we got Jones, Rozier and even Joseph Young.

The bottomline is Nets IMO would have had to take a chance on those options too because Jack is just NOT the answer.

The only positive with Larkin is he has NBA experience where the rookies would not have had. Even though the experience hasnt been great for Larkin it is still MORE than what a rookie PG would have had and I would be calling for him to start TOO. There is no reason to baby any of these young guys. If we are going to lose games, might as well be with the young guys and have them figure things out among themselves.

Anyway BKing and Hollins wants Lopez to be a LEADER then send out the young guys with him and have him lead.

Give Lopez Larkin, bogs and RHJ and let him guide these guys to what HE wants them to be instead of having Jack and JJ on the court where Lopez can automatically defer.

Larkin, Bogs, RHJ, Thad, Lopez let them figure it out. I can see a lot of running with this squad with the way larkin, Bogs, RHJ and thad likes to cut off passing lanes to help out the PnR Game of Larkin, Lopez and Thad. I would even run some PnR with RHJ in some possessions to get RHJ involved in the offenses by attacking the basket and dishing it off to Bogs, Thad and Lopez for jumpers.

Jack, Brown, JJ, TRob, Barg can be the second unit. They would be playing against weaker second units and would be able to put up A LOT of points to help whatever the Starting lineup lacks.

i dont think you can make someone a leader. leaders are born not taught or molded. we can want lopez to be a leader, but thats not who he is. and even if he was the GOAT leader, that doesnt make him a miracle worker who can turn scrubs into players. that isnt how it works

our best bet on offense is to put our best shooters around lopez and run as many JJ/Brook pick and rolls as we can

[Prokorov]

Larkin/Bogs/RHJ/Thad/Lopez = speed mixed with athleticism at both forwards spots, two scorers, and your 2, 3, and 4 man will all run with the PG. Your 3 man can defend all of the perimeter positions. Could be a bad mix in halfcourt sets if Larkin/Thad cannot hit shots. Added bonus, your 3 man can rebound and initiate the break. I want to see this line up on the floor in preseason to get a look.

it is also a line with no shooting or spacing, without much defense in the front court or back court, and really not much scoring. also 2 guys you dont really have to defense in larkin and rhj. you cant list the positives without the negatives. to me that lineup has tons of issues scoring and still isnt any better then an average defense. the hustle and transition points are nice, but thats what 12 or 14 points a game? not enough to overcome anything

Jack/Bojan/Joe/Thad/Lopez = no transition game, one athlete, horrific perimeter defense, but they will bring it against the opponents on offense. These guys will probably be closing games out as they are top heavy offensively and the most mature line up.

to me all that matters is that lineup has shooters in it as well as our 2 best players on the floor in joe and brook... the only 2 guys on our team that command a double team. you take either one of the floor and we arent going to score much at all. they will suck on defense, suck in transition, but at least they can score

the only thing i see us being a top 10 team at is scoring if we have our best scoring lineup out. i dont see any lineup were we are top 10 defense

[jbeachboy]

Larkin/Bogs/RHJ/Thad/Lopez = speed mixed with athleticism at both forwards spots, two scorers, and your 2, 3, and 4 man will all run with the PG. Your 3 man can defend all of the perimeter positions. Could be a bad mix in halfcourt sets if Larkin/Thad cannot hit shots. Added bonus, your 3 man can rebound and initiate the break. I want to see this line up on the floor in preseason to get a look.

it is also a line with no shooting or spacing, without much defense in the front court or back court, and really not much scoring. also 2 guys you dont really have to defense in larkin and rhj. you cant list the positives without the negatives. to me that lineup has tons of issues scoring and still isnt any better then an average defense. the hustle and transition points are nice, but thats what 12 or 14 points a game? not enough to overcome anything

Jack/Bojan/Joe/Thad/Lopez = no transition game, one athlete, horrific perimeter defense, but they will bring it against the opponents on offense. These guys will probably be closing games out as they are top heavy offensively and the most mature line up.

to me all that matters is that lineup has shooters in it as well as our 2 best players on the floor in joe and brook... the only 2 guys on our team that command a double team. you take either one of the floor and we arent going to score much at all. they will suck on defense, suck in transition, but at least they can score

the only thing i see us being a top 10 team at is scoring if we have our best scoring lineup out. i dont see any lineup were we are top 10 defense

are they going to use bargnani with thomas robinson or with willie reed as the other big or lopez

[MrDollarBills]

depends on match ups I'd imagine.

[Trader_Joe]

It would be amazing if RHJ showed true point forward skills and could be our 6'7" PG as unlikely as that is.

RHJ
Bogdanovic
Johnson
Thad
Lopez

Could give some team fits with the size. Really he'd have to be the full court or transition PG as JJ could run the half court.