Nets 2015 Roster Moves

Mkdaman1818 · Post #1 » by **Mkdaman1818** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:32 am

Can't believe it's already time, but King has spoken...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rodboone/status/663769483782262784[/tweet]

I personally think the Nets should stand pat and just take this on the chin. King should be dismissed along with Hollins at the end of this dumpster fire of a season.

Post #2 » by **CalamityX12** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:18 am

I rather King make no moves at all... we can't do sh*t here and what are going to get back for who exactly?

Net Sentence · Post #3 » by **Net Sentence** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:50 am

The main roster move needs to be internal. Bogs should be starting over Joe.

Bogs is starting to round into shape. Over his last 5 games he is averaging

26 minutes
12.6 Pts (17.5 Per 36)
50% FG
41.2% 3pt
1.4 Reb (1.9 Per 36)
1.2 Asst / 2 TOs
1.2 Stl (1.7 Per 36)

We need to see what we have in him this year and there is no reason why he shouldnt be playing the lion share of minutes at SF and not at SG. We need him to take and make 3 pointers since we are struggling in that area. He is really our only triple threat player on the team in that he can Shoot, Drive and Post Up.

We should start

Lopez
Thad
Bogs
RHJ
Jack

Paradise · Post #4 » by **Paradise** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:26 am

Nobody is trading for our garbage. Half the roster is shooting 20% from three.

Net Sentence · Post #5 » by **Net Sentence** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:33 am

Paradise wrote:Brook, Thad, RHJ, McCullough, Robinson will stay. Everyone else can kick rocks but the reality is nobody is trading for our garbage. Half the roster is shooting 20% from three.

Im still on the fence with Bogs. He has been loose with the ball but he does a number of things well that you wouldnt expect from looking at him. He is a really good post up player and does a good job of attacking the rim and finishing. He is starting to come around on the 3s. His problem is he will go 4-6 from 3 one night and 0-8 the next. I just want him to get consistent.

Prokorov · Post #6 » by **Prokorov** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:38 pm

Mkdaman1818 wrote:Can't believe it's already time, but King has spoken...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rodboone/status/663769483782262784[/tweet]

I personally think the Nets should stand pat and just take this on the chin. King should be dismissed along with Hollins at the end of this dumpster fire of a season.

this 100%.

make any all trades that dont bring salary. dump thad if you can get out of his contract. outside of that, this is a throwaway year. be patient and wait for FA

Mkdaman1818 · Post #7 » by **Mkdaman1818** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:31 pm

I wonder if we could have swung for Mario...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojyahoonba/status/664146386284371972[/tweet]

Post #8 » by **CalamityX12** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:14 pm

Chalmers is better than Jack.....

Lamak · Post #9 » by **Lamak** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:28 pm

I don't think we should make any moves unless we can move Joe Johnson somehow.

Post #10 » by **CalamityX12** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:49 pm

to those cap gurus:

What is more valuable to us/franchise?

Keeping JJ and have his $ off the books?

or trade him for whatever realistic pile of poo poo platter out there?

Post #11 » by **NyCeEvO** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:31 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:to those cap gurus:

What is more valuable to us/franchise?

Keeping JJ and have his $ off the books?

or trade him for whatever realistic pile of poo poo platter out there?

We have zero shot at winning over the players who actually make a marked difference in the win column for this year's free agency.

Spoiler:

Trade JJ now and be winning to take contracts that run through next season. Try to build something for the 2017 free agency period where there are more stars (possibly including KD too) to choose from and the team has the chance to be a bit better and therefore make a better impression.

2017 free agents:
*LBJ* (Highly doubt it)
*KD* (There's very good reason to believe KD would take a 1+1 deal as he stands to make even more money this way)
Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin (ETO)
Dwight Howard (if he doesn't use his ETO and sign a new deal this year)
Jeff Teague
Chris Paul (ETO)
Kyle Lowry (ETO)
Paul Millsap - (PO)
Greg Monroe (PO)
Serge Ibaka

Rudy Gobert (RFA)
Giannis Antetokounmpo (RFA)
Victor Oladipo (RFA)
Nerlens Noel (RFA)

Al Jefferson
Derrick Rose
Danilo Gallinari

Zach Randolph
Rudy Gay (PO)

This shouldn't even be debatable for a team like the Nets given the current predicament we're in.

Post #12 » by **CalamityX12** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:41 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:to those cap gurus:

What is more valuable to us/franchise?

Keeping JJ and have his $ off the books?

or trade him for whatever realistic pile of poo poo platter out there?

We have zero shot at winning over the players who actually make a marked difference in the win column for this year's free agency.

Spoiler:
There is:
KD — He could very well delay his free agency one year and join up with a better free agency pool including Westbrook

Conley — He's not even in the discussion for top 3 PG in the game and yet we're talking about giving him the 30% max contract? He's approaching 30 and he doesn't do anything at an elite level. Basically, we're seeing the best of Conley right now and it's not even that good. Idk why people would want to give him the max. I also don't know why people think he would leave an established great team for this team unless management begins to sell off their players.

Horford — Another player close to 30 who we'd have to give 30% of the cap to. He's probably closer to being the best big man than Conley is to being the best PG but it's still pretty relative at this point. And he has the same situation as Conley. Unless the Hawks are going to blow it up, why would he leave a great coach/system, a winning team that drafted him, to come to the Nets?

What awesome thing is in Brooklyn that he can't get in Atlanta?

After these three, there is a major drop off and KD might not even be there in the end.

Trade JJ now and be winning to take contracts that run through next season. Try to build something for the 2017 free agency period where there are more stars (possibly including KD too) to choose from and the team has the chance to be a bit better and therefore make a better impression.

2017 free agents:
(This list doesn't even include KD who could very well be on this list or LBJ who most likely won't)

Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin (ETO)
Dwight Howard (if he doesn't use his ETO and sign a new deal this year)
Jeff Teague
Chris Paul (ETO)
Kyle Lowry (ETO)
Paul Millsap - (PO)
Greg Monroe (PO)

Rudy Gobert (RFA)
Giannis Antetokounmpo (RFA)
Victor Oladipo (RFA)
Nerlens Noel (RFA)

Al Jefferson
Derrick Rose
Danilo Gallinari

Zach Randolph
Rudy Gay (PO)

This shouldn't even be debatable for a team like the Nets given the current predicament we're in.

So you believe the 2017 class is more enticing?

what would be the difference from this upcoming FA to the next in terms of draw/attraction to BKN?

shakendfries · Post #13 » by **shakendfries** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:53 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:to those cap gurus:

What is more valuable to us/franchise?

Keeping JJ and have his $ off the books?

or trade him for whatever realistic pile of poo poo platter out there?

We have zero shot at winning over the players who actually make a marked difference in the win column for this year's free agency.

Spoiler:
There is:
KD — He could very well delay his free agency one year and join up with a better free agency pool including Westbrook

Conley — He's not even in the discussion for top 3 PG in the game and yet we're talking about giving him the 30% max contract? He's approaching 30 and he doesn't do anything at an elite level. Basically, we're seeing the best of Conley right now and it's not even that good. Idk why people would want to give him the max. I also don't know why people think he would leave an established great team for this team unless management begins to sell off their players.

Horford — Another player close to 30 who we'd have to give 30% of the cap to. He's probably closer to being the best big man than Conley is to being the best PG but it's still pretty relative at this point. And he has the same situation as Conley. Unless the Hawks are going to blow it up, why would he leave a great coach/system, a winning team that drafted him, to come to the Nets?

What awesome thing is in Brooklyn that he can't get in Atlanta?

After these three, there is a major drop off and KD might not even be there in the end.

Trade JJ now and be winning to take contracts that run through next season. Try to build something for the 2017 free agency period where there are more stars (possibly including KD too) to choose from and the team has the chance to be a bit better and therefore make a better impression.

2017 free agents:
(This list doesn't even include KD who could very well be on this list or LBJ who most likely won't)

Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin (ETO)
Dwight Howard (if he doesn't use his ETO and sign a new deal this year)
Jeff Teague
Chris Paul (ETO)
Kyle Lowry (ETO)
Paul Millsap - (PO)
Greg Monroe (PO)

Rudy Gobert (RFA)
Giannis Antetokounmpo (RFA)
Victor Oladipo (RFA)
Nerlens Noel (RFA)

Al Jefferson
Derrick Rose
Danilo Gallinari

Zach Randolph
Rudy Gay (PO)

This shouldn't even be debatable for a team like the Nets given the current predicament we're in.

You forgot about Ibaka

Post #14 » by **NyCeEvO** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:08 am

shakendfries wrote:You forgot about Ibaka

Thanks.

Post #15 » by **NyCeEvO** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:00 am

CalamityX12 wrote:So you believe the 2017 class is more enticing?

Look at the 2016 class and compare it to the list above. 2017 is way better and it's not even debatable. Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks have both stated this.

what would be the difference from this upcoming FA to the next in terms of draw/attraction to BKN?

In 2016, every team (except for the Cavs) in the NBA has cap space that they can potentially spend and there are very few true difference-making free agents to spend it on.

As I've said before, if KD punts this free agency it actually becomes a very mediocre free agent class overall.

On top of this, I think this is the worst that the Nets will be for awhile.

Selling this year's free agent class on a team this bad just isn't smart. We can talk about the fact the overwhelming majority of players won't be on the team next year but that doesn't matter to them. What matters to the superstars is who's on the team.

LBJ didn't go to Miami because they had a lot of capspace. He went because Dwyane Wade was there, Bosh already agreed to come, and he knew he would be joining two studs. The money didn't matter and it was something they were going to figure out later. They had a huge party on the night of the decision because they were excited about playing with each other. They weren't penny-pinching and trying to think about who was going to get the most money.

The same logic applies to the Nets.

The best superstars are going to look at the Nets and see a (pseudo-)star in Brook Lopez whose foot problems can make him somewhat unreliable, a team basically no draft noteworthy draft picks for the next 3 years, a terrible GM, and a bunch of garbage.

We can sit here and argue about the fact that other players won't be here but we have to remember that the big stars and the home team's free agents usually sign first. Then the MLE and lesser guys sign later.

Even if a superstar saw the capspace, since they're going to take up most of it, they need to be signed first so everyone can fit around them financially, and they have to trust the organization to continue filling out the roster with good enough players.

Teams could promise a star player that they will sign every solid FA out there and if he agrees to sign, all they need to say "Well, we tried and a deal couldn't get done" regardless of whether they really tried to sign a guy or not.

Why in the world would KD or another star trust the front office of the Nets to surround them with good players for the life of their contract if they weren't even smart enough to put protection on 6 1st round draft picks that have been/will have been traded by 2019?

All of this is to say that waiting until 2017 allows the Nets to (at minimum) do what the Knicks did. Improve the roster incrementally to show that you can put a freaking team together and it won't crash and burn. That gives free agents a bit assurance that you can build toward something good and you at least have 1 year to show for it.

You can pick and choose the players you want to retain and they can be ambassadors/recruiters for your team. Some of these guys might not make a difference at all but when you see how some star players are best friends with some of the worst players, you never know what one player could do to help lure in a big fish. Right now, there are only ex-players in Gerald Wallace, Deron Williams, and Paul Pierce who will actively tell players to not sign with the Nets. We need players of some positive value (not the guys we have on our team) to be able to dispel that notion.

Also, since 2017 has more star free agents, the chance of us landing one is much higher than it is 2016. Even if the team stayed the same, this wouldn't change that fact.

But if you combine a higher number of stars to what could/should be a better more attractive Nets team, it again increases your chances of landing a star or even two.

So let's give a concrete example.

Let's say the Nets trade JJ/Jack/filler for D-Rose/Taj/SAC 1st (protected). (I'd also try to find a way to trade Thad for an expiring & a pick.)

Fans can laugh all the want but the players still respect the hell out of D-Rose's game. Yes, a lineup of Rose & Lopez has injury concerns written all over it but it also undoubtedly has some firepower. It gives fans and other players a chance to believe that if things go right, they can ball.

2017 free agency comes around and you have two established borderline allstar players who can now say "Come to our team".

Rose is a free agent. He can say "Hey, the Nets are great. They've taken care of me and I haven't suffered a significant injury since I got here. :pray:

If you come here, I'll definitely take less for a better chance to win the title."

Boom...a notable player has spread positive information about the team and now gives other players food for thought.

Lopez can second Rose's comments given how much we've taken care of him over the years. If RHJ is good enough in his 2nd year and Chris McC makes good progress, maybe they will be viewed favorably as well.

With Rose as a free agent, RHJ and McC on rookie deals, you can look at two star players together and say "We can give you max money if Rose doesn't come back or give all three of you $25mil/season to play for us," you now have a compelling pitch to other free agents.

What if Blake Griffin realizes that CP3 is coming to the end of his career and he doesn't want to stick around in LAC for the rebuild?

You can go to him and say "Hey Blake, we've been getting better over the last few years. Derrick and Brook love being here. Derrick really wants to come back but he said he's down for taking less if you and Steph want to help form a dynasty in NYC."

All of these players will be making huge money soon so the need to scratch and claw for an extra million won't be that great. For the guys with endorsement contracts, the need will be even less. What will matter to the best players in the game is winning. We need to present a compelling case to stars but it takes building blocks to get there. Overpaying Harrison Barnes and striking out on everyone else in this draft really isn't the way to go especially if you want to preserve cap space for the free agent that's actually noteworthy.

The Clippers were the laughingstock of the league just a few years ago. Look at them now. It doesn't take much to gain respectability. You just need to be smart about it. You gotta know when to raise, know when check, and know when to fold.

MrDollarBills · Post #16 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:08 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:to those cap gurus:

What is more valuable to us/franchise?

Keeping JJ and have his $ off the books?

or trade him for whatever realistic pile of poo poo platter out there?

We have zero shot at winning over the players who actually make a marked difference in the win column for this year's free agency.

Spoiler:
There is:
KD — He could very well delay his free agency one year and join up with a better free agency pool including Westbrook

Conley — He's not even in the discussion for top 3 PG in the game and yet we're talking about giving him the 30% max contract? He's approaching 30 and he doesn't do anything at an elite level. Basically, we're seeing the best of Conley right now and it's not even that good. Idk why people would want to give him the max. I also don't know why people think he would leave an established great team for this team unless management begins to sell off their players.

Horford — Another player close to 30 who we'd have to give 30% of the cap to. He's probably closer to being the best big man than Conley is to being the best PG but it's still pretty relative at this point. And he has the same situation as Conley. Unless the Hawks are going to blow it up, why would he leave a great coach/system, a winning team that drafted him, to come to the Nets?

What awesome thing is in Brooklyn that he can't get in Atlanta?

After these three, there is a major drop off and KD might not even be there in the end.

Trade JJ now and be winning to take contracts that run through next season. Try to build something for the 2017 free agency period where there are more stars (possibly including KD too) to choose from and the team has the chance to be a bit better and therefore make a better impression.

2017 free agents:
*LBJ* (Highly doubt it)
*KD* (There's very good reason to believe KD would take a 1+1 deal as he stands to make even more money this way)
Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin (ETO)
Dwight Howard (if he doesn't use his ETO and sign a new deal this year)
Jeff Teague
Chris Paul (ETO)
Kyle Lowry (ETO)
Paul Millsap - (PO)
Greg Monroe (PO)
Serge Ibaka

Rudy Gobert (RFA)
Giannis Antetokounmpo (RFA)
Victor Oladipo (RFA)
Nerlens Noel (RFA)

Al Jefferson
Derrick Rose
Danilo Gallinari

Zach Randolph
Rudy Gay (PO)

This shouldn't even be debatable for a team like the Nets given the current predicament we're in.

Ibaka and Teague look like legit targets. they will take our mercenary money.

we are the NBA version of Blackwater.

jbeachboy · Post #17 » by **jbeachboy** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:26 am

king will try to make some trades around trade deadline, his job is on the line and he will be fired at end of season unless he does something with trades or moves. he just said changes will happen.

Post #18 » by **NyCeEvO** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:32 am

jbeachboy wrote:king will try to make some trades around trade deadline, his job is on the line and he will be fired at end of season unless he does something with trades or moves. he just said changes will happen.

He can't wait until the trade deadline. Everyone knows he's screwed at that point and that he has to save face. I don't want to see what he does when he's forced to make a deal at the last moment possible just to save his job.

We saw what he did to get Deron to re-sign.
We saw what he did to get JJ here and forgot to mention the fineprint.
We saw what he gave up to get older vets here without putting protection on the picks.

With his last NBA job on the line, I don't want to see what King would do at the deadline.

DarkXaero · Post #19 » by **DarkXaero** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:10 am

I don't mind if we actually take on salary that runs past this season. It's better to plan for the 2017 FA than 2016 FA. 2016 FA somehow went from amazing to crap and there's barely anyone great/good available who would be a realistic target for us. In 2017, there are far more options, although that can change too. So I'm find with trading JJ now for two or three serviceable players who can add depth to the team.

jbeachboy · Post #20 » by **jbeachboy** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:12 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
jbeachboy wrote:king will try to make some trades around trade deadline, his job is on the line and he will be fired at end of season unless he does something with trades or moves. he just said changes will happen.

He can't wait until the trade deadline. Everyone knows he's screwed at that point and that he has to save face. I don't want to see what he does when he's forced to make a deal at the last moment possible just to save his job.

We saw what he did to get Deron to re-sign.
We saw what he did to get JJ here and forgot to mention the fineprint.
We saw what he gave up to get older vets here without putting protection on the picks.

With his last NBA job on the line, I don't want to see what King would do at the deadline.

those teams werent going to trade those guys if king put protections on them, nobody knows what the other gm demanded or asked for. you cant get those type of players with putting protection on picks. king was desperate to please and keep dwill and he gave in cause he was worried about losing dwill and keeping him happy. its hard to make trades until around the trade deadline cause teams dont want to trade until february.