Lionel Hollins coaching ability and rotations

[jbeachboy]

I think this deserves a thread of its own, its mind boggling how hollins wont limit his minutes and play people that give poor defense and keep playing awful, the only thing i like hollins is he gets the team to compete but he is very stubborn this year with his rotations and willing to punish players unlike last year when he was willing to send a message to guys and bench them.

[shakendfries]

you cant turn chicken sh*t into chicken soup. this nets roster is performing exactly how everyone in the nba expected besides disillusioned nets fans that believe this should be a playoff team (not necessarily you, but the narrative each year that this team should be in the playoffs so we should fire Avery, PJ, Kidd, and now Hollins). there were 4 or 5 games with questionable rotations, but that's not getting the team in the playoffs. the draft pick scenario is the FO's fault alone. lionel is a coach that likes to stick to his guns and consistent evidence of capability rather than going to a hot hand. it hasn't paid off this season because king and ramuzov have armed him with a water-pistol to the showdown. lionel didn't lose to the magic - the nets did.

this is just my interpretation of the situation

[Paradise]

you cant turn chicken sh*t into chicken soup. this nets roster is performing exactly how everyone in the nba expected besides disillusioned nets fans that believe this should be a playoff team (not necessarily you, but the narrative each year that this team should be in the playoffs so we should fire Avery, PJ, Kidd, and now Hollins). there were 4 or 5 games with questionable rotations, but that's not getting the team in the playoffs. the draft pick scenario is the FO's fault alone. lionel is a coach that likes to stick to his guns and consistent evidence of capability rather than going to a hot hand. it hasn't paid off this season because king and ramuzov have armed him with a water-pistol to the showdown. lionel didn't lose to the magic - the nets did.

this is just my interpretation of the situation

It doesn't matter where this team was projected. Playoffs or not. This team COULD have won more games than they currently have and at least 5 wins have slipped away because of poor coaching. You don't throw that under the rug and chalk it up to just a bad roster.

The reality is his rotations have exhibited that he has favorites. Joe Johnson has been downright awful all season and somehow Hollins still manages to give him 40 minutes with no criticism for bad defense, selfish ball hogging or bad shooting like he gave Deron last year. He selectively chooses when to be tough. Meanwhile, it took the FO to force Hollins to utilize Rondae. It's a bridge season. Why should a coach be forced to use a 1st round rookie that needs development in a throw away season? Jack and Johnson were downright getting embarrassed in Miami on defense. Hollins finally starts Larkin and Ellington to send a message. Larkin racks 7 assists in a quarter while Ellington finished with 25 points, 7 threes in 32 minutes. We win after trailing by 16.

Tonight, Lionel gives Johnson 34 minutes and Ellington 17 minutes. We lose after being up 12. You reward someone when they have a breakout performance. This is the second time he's done that. Last Wednesday, he pulls Bojan after going 5/5 from three with 17 points against Dallas and of course, Joe finishes 1/6 from three with at least two air balls. Bad roster or not, he hasn't shown the ability to coach in close games or develop talent.

Does firing him during the season make sense? No, not at all but he should be shown the door along with Billy King. The coach and GM position are a marriage. When both think similar and have similar IQ, it creates a culture. That's why Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens can create a cast of role players and turn them into a legitimate team. Same can be said for Pat Riley and Spo in Miami.

Billy King hired a coaching version of Billy King. Dumb and Dumber. The result is a poor IQ roster and poor decision making plays within close games. We need to clean house starting with those two and then the entire coaching bench.

[shakendfries]

Tonight, Lionel gives Johnson 34 minutes and Ellington 17 minutes. We lose after being up 12. You reward someone when they have a breakout performance. This is the second time he's done that. Last Wednesday, he pulls Bojan after going 5/5 from three with 17 points against Dallas and of course, Joe finishes 1/6 from three with at least two air balls. Bad roster or not, he hasn't shown the ability to coach in close games or develop talent.

Develop talent...you mean Bojan Bogdanobricks? or RHJ who was having a good season before he went down? How about Jack Larkin Thad Brook TRob Reed - all of whom are having career seasons? You're selectively discrediting Hollins.

I'm not apologizing him, but its ludicrous to blame him for the team's performance when the team isn't any good to begin with. Bad teams lose games, especially close ones. The Magic are a better team than the Nets, and most teams in the NBA are. Your expectations of maintaining leads against teams that are simply better than the Nets are unrealistic. If you're gonna blame him for not playing the hot hand and benching Joe that's one thing, but let's not act as if the Nets aren't top 5 in points in the paint, decent at rebounding, and trash at everything else...which is what everyone in the NBA would expect a team starring Jack Thad and Brook to perform like

[jbeachboy]

hollins was way more open last year to letting different guys from roster and it finally took some losing for thomas robinson to get back into rotation as well as trob playing much better. joe should not be close to 30 to 40 minutes a game at this level. he has a flawed roster but he doesnt use their lone strengths by overplaying struggling players or keeping them in too long or not bringing back the hot hand.

[Prokorov]

you cant turn chicken sh*t into chicken soup. this nets roster is performing exactly how everyone in the nba expected besides disillusioned nets fans that believe this should be a playoff team (not necessarily you, but the narrative each year that this team should be in the playoffs so we should fire Avery, PJ, Kidd, and now Hollins). there were 4 or 5 games with questionable rotations, but that's not getting the team in the playoffs. the draft pick scenario is the FO's fault alone. lionel is a coach that likes to stick to his guns and consistent evidence of capability rather than going to a hot hand. it hasn't paid off this season because king and ramuzov have armed him with a water-pistol to the showdown. lionel didn't lose to the magic - the nets did.

this is just my interpretation of the situation

this is spot on.... all i keep hearing is his rotation suck and that he is stubborn. what i dont here is this rotation that most people agree on. its complaining without offering a viable solution. Can they be better? sure, but to the point where it is negligible and nit picking.

We have had 9 different guys start, and 16 different starting lineups.

We us a 10 man rotation. 11 guys are averaging double digits in minutes.

if anything, hollins is willing to change things up, let alone so stubborn he wont. he benched out best players last year when they werent performing.

hollins has his issues, but this rotation complaining is pretty much garbage. other then joe gtting too many minutes there really isnt anything to beef about... and even in that situation the alterntives are guys who might not be in the NBA in a few years. D-leaguers and 3rd string scrubs

[Prokorov]

It doesn't matter where this team was projected. Playoffs or not. This team COULD have won more games than they currently have and at least 5 wins have slipped away because of poor coaching. You don't throw that under the rug and chalk it up to just a bad roster.

i dont buy this. this assume the alternative would have won all 5 of those, when in likely hood they do just as bad. this is a TERRIBLE roster. if anything we have more win then we should because he has this team playing hard for 48 minutes every night

The reality is his rotations have exhibited that he has favorites. Joe Johnson has been downright awful all season and somehow Hollins still manages to give him 40 minutes with no criticism for bad defense, selfish ball hogging or bad shooting like he gave Deron last year. He selectively chooses when to be tough. Meanwhile, it took the FO to force Hollins to utilize Rondae. It's a bridge season. Why should a coach be forced to use a 1st round rookie that needs development in a throw away season? Jack and Johnson were downright getting embarrassed in Miami on defense. Hollins finally starts Larkin and Ellington to send a messaige. Larkin racks 7 assists in a quarter while Ellington finished with 25 points, 7 threes in 32 minutes. We win after trailing by 16.

so your example of hollins playing favorites and being stubborn is the time he sat his 2 veterans when they werent playing well? how exactly does that make sense? if we had real nba players to go to besides joe id be more critical. but markel brown and karasev are terrible nba players. Also, its not just about joe's performance. he is the only guy who commands and double team and the only guy defenses respect at the 3 point line. spacing goes to hell and defense dont need to work very hard when he isnt on the floor.

Does firing him during the season make sense? No, not at all but he should be shown the door along with Billy King. The coach and GM position are a marriage. When both think similar and have similar IQ, it creates a culture. That's why Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens can create a cast of role players and turn them into a legitimate team. Same can be said for Pat Riley and Spo in Miami.

the cetlics dont have a cast of role players. they have a ton of first rounders, and lottery guys. thomas is a legit scorer, one of the best per minute in the NBA. smart is a lotto pick. Turner was a lotto pick. Olynick was a lotto pick. Sullinger was a first rounder, rozier was as well. Amir Johnson has started on playoff teams.

the celtics have a ton more talent then we do. the heat do as well.

we arent struggling because of hollins. we are struggling because we start 2-3 bench players, our best player isnt a top 30 NBA player who is extremely passive, and our bench consists of d-leaguers and career enormous net negative players. we have no shooters, we have no scoreres, our only defender is out with an injury. as a team, skill wise, there is nothing we do well.

this is kings mess, not hollins mismangement of it

Billy King hired a coaching version of Billy King. Dumb and Dumber. The result is a poor IQ roster and poor decision making plays within close games. We need to clean house starting with those two and then the entire coaching bench.[/quote]

[Prokorov]

Develop talent...you mean Bojan Bogdanobricks? or RHJ who was having a good season before he went down? How about Jack Larkin Thad Brook TRob Reed - all of whom are having career seasons? You're selectively discrediting Hollins.

Exactly... jackia career bench player playing like a decent starter and a career year. thad young have a career year AFTER getting paid. same with the others you mentioned.

As far as bogs, he is a second year player from overseason. few of those are killing midway thorugh their second season. RHJ is the higherst rated wing defender as far as defensive RAPM before going down.

who are these guys who arent developing?

Lopez you could say isnt, but he has had his most success under hollins, especially D and on the glass.
Brown? a player with no position picked in the second round? he never had a good shot of being a real pro.

I'm not apologizing him, but its ludicrous to blame him for the team's performance when the team isn't any good to begin with. Bad teams lose games, especially close ones. The Magic are a better team than the Nets, and most teams in the NBA are. Your expectations of maintaining leads against teams that are simply better than the Nets are unrealistic. If you're gonna blame him for not playing the hot hand and benching Joe that's one thing, but let's not act as if the Nets aren't top 5 in points in the paint, decent at rebounding, and trash at everything else...which is what everyone in the NBA would expect a team starring Jack Thad and Brook to perform like

bingo

[Prokorov]

hollins was way more open last year to letting different guys from roster and it finally took some losing for thomas robinson to get back into rotation as well as trob playing much better. joe should not be close to 30 to 40 minutes a game at this level. he has a flawed roster but he doesnt use their lone strengths by overplaying struggling players or keeping them in too long or not bringing back the hot hand.

Joe is nowhere close to 40 minutes. he is playing 32 a game.

doesnt use their lone strenghts? what strenghts?

we dont have shooters
we dont have slashers/guys who get to the FT line
we dont have defenders
we dont have rebounders
we dont have post players

we have a couple decent mid range shooters and a couple guys who can score if they get it in the paint.... and we are 5th in the NBA in points in the paint.

who ISNT struggling on this roster? i love how 5 games into the seasone veryone wanted ellington cut, he has one good game and now he needs to be playing a ton?

its like it was mentioned above... and similar to the first few years here. people just want to point the finger and not come to grips that this team has no talent.

[Prokorov]

hollins was way more open last year to letting different guys from roster and it finally took some losing for thomas robinson to get back into rotation as well as trob playing much better. joe should not be close to 30 to 40 minutes a game at this level. he has a flawed roster but he doesnt use their lone strengths by overplaying struggling players or keeping them in too long or not bringing back the hot hand.

Joe is nowhere close to 40 minutes. he is playing 32 a game.

doesnt use their lone strenghts? what strenghts?

we dont have shooters
we dont have slashers/guys who get to the FT line
we dont have defenders
we dont have rebounders
we dont have post players

we have a couple decent mid range shooters and a couple guys who can score if they get it in the paint.... and we are 5th in the NBA in points in the paint.

who ISNT struggling on this roster? i love how 5 games into the seasone veryone wanted ellington cut, he has one good game and now he needs to be playing a ton?

its like it was mentioned above... and similar to the first few years here. people just want to point the finger and not come to grips that this team has no talent.

[Prokorov]

hollins was way more open last year to letting different guys from roster and it finally took some losing for thomas robinson to get back into rotation as well as trob playing much better. joe should not be close to 30 to 40 minutes a game at this level. he has a flawed roster but he doesnt use their lone strengths by overplaying struggling players or keeping them in too long or not bringing back the hot hand.

Joe is nowhere close to 40 minutes. he is playing 32 a game.

doesnt use their lone strenghts? what strenghts?

we dont have shooters
we dont have slashers/guys who get to the FT line
we dont have defenders
we dont have rebounders
we dont have post players

we have a couple decent mid range shooters and a couple guys who can score if they get it in the paint.... and we are 5th in the NBA in points in the paint.

who ISNT struggling on this roster? i love how 5 games into the seasone veryone wanted ellington cut, he has one good game and now he needs to be playing a ton?

its like it was mentioned above... and similar to the first few years here. people just want to point the finger and not come to grips that this team has no talent.

[Chuck Everett]

At the end of the day fans are irrational. The Nets have several guys who would never play on a winning team. Markel Brown will probably be out of the league within two seasons. Karasev forget about it. Bargs, yikes. I mean this is Billy King's handiwork. The fact that Hollins has a chance to hand the Celtics the 8th-9th pick at the end of the year rather than the No. 1, is a miracle.

[jbeachboy]

there were a bunch of games joe johnson was playing 30 or around 40 a night. he just isnt capable of doing that anymore unless he was shooting well like celtics game but he is a huge liability on defense and rebounding now. i just wanted to see brown when there is a tough guard and we dont have rhj. sloan ran the offense pretty well when ive seen him play. trob has been benched after having good games while hollins wears out thad, brook, and even bargnani until the last few games.

[MrDollarBills]

The lack of talent on the roster doesn't excuse Hollins for not playing the young guys we're supposedly focused on developing.

Watch, the Nets FO will have to force Hollins to put McCollugh on the floor just like they had to do with RHJ. The fact that he had to be forced to play RHJ is an indictment...the eyeball test and analytics should have made putting that kid on the floor a no brainer.

[jbeachboy]

the only thing i like about hollins was his improvement with brook lopez and a few of the players. his rotations are terrible this year compared to last year. plus his stubborness to develop players. he is like totally opposite of last year.

[CalamityX12]

Run til the knees bleed!!!!!

(or sprain)....

[jbeachboy]

good point, hollins never developed lowry, demarre carroll, oj mayo or gave a chance to tony wroten , speights, etc.

[Paradise]

At the end of the day fans are irrational. The Nets have several guys who would never play on a winning team. Markel Brown will probably be out of the league within two seasons. Karasev forget about it. Bargs, yikes. I mean this is Billy King's handiwork. The fact that Hollins has a chance to hand the Celtics the 8th-9th pick at the end of the year rather than the No. 1, is a miracle.

The league is filled with those and most are developed by cultured organizations like San Antonio, Atlanta, Utah, Miami, etc.

Markel Brown showed multiple flashes of the ability to be a rotational piece that could be developed into a 3&D Player. Hollins has never built on it. It's already been stated but he didn't even care to give RHJ an opportunity to start until management had to step in. We were already 0-7 and he already knew we were likely not making the playoffs.

His quotes after McCullough officially practiced confirms he simply just doesn't want to adapt to modern day basketball. Everyone is excited to see the kid play. Telling the media he isn't "NBA Player from a technical perspective" is instilling an excuse not to utilize him.

Billy King is clearly to blame but the plan was to develop the drafted talent we had and evaluate their future with us. We've so far established this season that RHJ has long term potential, Willie Reed could be a long term backup, Larkin could be a long term backup. The issue is management being in the ear of the coach to follow a strict plan that can benefit our organization is not a good sign. Especially when his tenure in Memphis ended due to his stubborn and unwillingness to develop talent and embrace analytics.

I don't think Hollins is a terrible coach but he isn't some elite coach either. He would be better off coaching a team filled with veterans and a perennial all-star(s).

[Mosdefinition]

At the end of the day fans are irrational. The Nets have several guys who would never play on a winning team. Markel Brown will probably be out of the league within two seasons. Karasev forget about it. Bargs, yikes. I mean this is Billy King's handiwork. The fact that Hollins has a chance to hand the Celtics the 8th-9th pick at the end of the year rather than the No. 1, is a miracle.

The league is filled with those and most are developed by cultured organizations like San Antonio, Atlanta, Utah, Miami, etc.

Markel Brown showed multiple flashes of the ability to be a rotational piece that could be developed into a 3&D Player. Hollins has never built on it. It's already been stated but he didn't even care to give RHJ an opportunity to start until management had to step in. We were already 0-7 and he already knew we were likely not making the playoffs.

His quotes after McCullough officially practiced confirms he simply just doesn't want to adapt to modern day basketball. Everyone is excited to see the kid play. Telling the media he isn't "NBA Player from a technical perspective" is instilling an excuse not to utilize him.

Billy King is clearly to blame but the plan was to develop the drafted talent we had and evaluate their future with us. We've so far established this season that RHJ has long term potential, Willie Reed could be a long term backup, Larkin could be a long term backup. The issue is management being in the ear of the coach to follow a strict plan that can benefit our organization is not a good sign. Especially when his tenure in Memphis ended due to his stubborn and unwillingness to develop talent and embrace analytics.

I don't think Hollins is a terrible coach but he isn't some elite coach either. He would be better off coaching a team filled with veterans and a perennial all-star(s).

Markel cant shoot he cant dribble and hes an ok defender

if the nets had a d league team thats where he'd be hes a borderline nba player

[Prokorov]

It doesn't matter where this team was projected. Playoffs or not. This team COULD have won more games than they currently have and at least 5 wins have slipped away because of poor coaching. You don't throw that under the rug and chalk it up to just a bad roster.

they also COULD have LOST more games if they didnt have a coach who got them to play their butts off for 48 minutes a night, using effort to compensate for a lack of talent