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Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu May 2, 2019 8:54 am
by MrDollarBills
SpeedyG wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:Levert's potential is a Jimmy Butler level player.

He's fine as a 1B, but he's not an MVP level like those other players you mentioned. He would need some growth to do, which isn't impossible, though not probable.

Like, there is a very very very slight chance he can get to pre-injury Penny. He's got the size, athleticism, and enough playmaking to think that if things REALLY click, that he can reach that level.

But he probably won't.

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He has nowhere near the elite level athleticism, footwork, and passing ability of pre injury Hardaway.

That being said, the odds of him becoming an all star level talent if he can keep his feet together in one piece are fairly high after what I've seen pre and post injury from him this season. He was putting up some serious production versus Philly in a high pressure situation.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leverca01.html#playoffs_advanced::none

ridiculous numbers from a first time performer.


I think Penny has better vert and body control but Caris 1st step might be even quicker. Agree with footwork and passing ability, but I think he can develop passing ability. I don't think footwork will ever be comparable but Caris has a herky-jerky style anyway that can get it done but in different way.

Regardless, it's not a realistic goal. More like, if he catches lightning in a bottle with development and just absolutely catches everyone off-guard.

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Its hard for me to stay who is fast, Hardaway was faster from end to end to me but I also could be...whats the word...I could be just being nostalgic where players at that time seemed so larger than life to me so everything that they did was god tier. But Penny had so many different moves off the dribble that were lightning quick, Caris has a good first step and can be crafty but he is more one line north south to the rim. Penny could drive, stop on the drive, spin across the lane and was an explosive leaper.
LeVert reminded me of a poor man's McGrady on his college tape and while I don't think he's anything like McGrady either, if he can get that 3 point shot to where it needs to be, he can just be Caris LeVert, a big guard with an excellent first step, solid handle, good basketball IQ, and an excellent finisher at the basket.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu May 2, 2019 10:10 am
by SpeedyG
Aussienet3 wrote:Caris doesn't need to be equal or better than any of those players listed above. He just needs to be fully fit and ready to go for next season. He is a brilliant system fit. It's no coincidence (in my eyes anyway) that Caris flourished whilst Joey Buckets struggled. I predicted at the start of the season he would be a 15, 5 & 5 guy. I can see him easily getting 17,5 and 7 next season. Caris' major strength is that he exploits the opponents weakness. His quickness is elite and that is what teams struggled to deal with.
I don't think Caris gets to 7 assists with Russell's usage. I think his playoff averages are about right unless Russell's usage goes down.

Which is fine...he can spend his energy on steals defense and rebounding

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Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu May 2, 2019 10:12 am
by SpeedyG
MrDollarBills wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
He has nowhere near the elite level athleticism, footwork, and passing ability of pre injury Hardaway.

That being said, the odds of him becoming an all star level talent if he can keep his feet together in one piece are fairly high after what I've seen pre and post injury from him this season. He was putting up some serious production versus Philly in a high pressure situation.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leverca01.html#playoffs_advanced::none

ridiculous numbers from a first time performer.


I think Penny has better vert and body control but Caris 1st step might be even quicker. Agree with footwork and passing ability, but I think he can develop passing ability. I don't think footwork will ever be comparable but Caris has a herky-jerky style anyway that can get it done but in different way.

Regardless, it's not a realistic goal. More like, if he catches lightning in a bottle with development and just absolutely catches everyone off-guard.

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Its hard for me to stay who is fast, Hardaway was faster from end to end to me but I also could be...whats the word...I could be just being nostalgic where players at that time seemed so larger than life to me so everything that they did was god tier. But Penny had so many different moves off the dribble that were lightning quick, Caris has a good first step and can be crafty but he is more one line north south to the rim. Penny could drive, stop on the drive, spin across the lane and was an explosive leaper.
LeVert reminded me of a poor man's McGrady on his college tape and while I don't think he's anything like McGrady either, if he can get that 3 point shot to where it needs to be, he can just be Caris LeVert, a big guard with an excellent first step, solid handle, good basketball IQ, and an excellent finisher at the basket.
I actually think Caris is faster end to end. Penny more explosive finisher. Absolutely one of the goat footwork. But keep in mind I'm not saying Caris will develop that footwork, but he can use his quirky stop/hesitation drives with similar effectiveness (if he fully develops)

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Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu May 2, 2019 11:06 am
by Aussienet3
SpeedyG wrote:
Aussienet3 wrote:Caris doesn't need to be equal or better than any of those players listed above. He just needs to be fully fit and ready to go for next season. He is a brilliant system fit. It's no coincidence (in my eyes anyway) that Caris flourished whilst Joey Buckets struggled. I predicted at the start of the season he would be a 15, 5 & 5 guy. I can see him easily getting 17,5 and 7 next season. Caris' major strength is that he exploits the opponents weakness. His quickness is elite and that is what teams struggled to deal with.
I don't think Caris gets to 7 assists with Russell's usage. I think his playoff averages are about right unless Russell's usage goes down.

Which is fine...he can spend his energy on steals defense and rebounding

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My bad. 7 boards. I rate guards on pts then asts. Forwards as pts then boards.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:12 pm
by NetsJets
Caris is gonna become a household name real soon. He’s gonna be a really good 3rd option behind KD and Kyrie. Can’t wait.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:30 pm
by NyCeEvO
NetsJets wrote:Caris is gonna become a household name real soon. He’s gonna be a really good 3rd option behind KD and Kyrie. Can’t wait.

I’ve been saying that he’s a consistent jumper away from unlocking that next tier and approaching stardom.

Without it, he’s a 6th man.
With it, he’s an all star.

He needs to be locked in the gym this summer, shooting 10k shots a day.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:53 pm
by Papi_swav
NyCeEvO wrote:
NetsJets wrote:Caris is gonna become a household name real soon. He’s gonna be a really good 3rd option behind KD and Kyrie. Can’t wait.

I’ve been saying that he’s a consistent jumper away from unlocking that next tier and approaching stardom.

Without it, he’s a 6th man.
With it, he’s an all star.

He needs to be locked in the gym this summer, shooting 10k shots a day.

Yes and for god sake play a full season please

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 1, 2019 5:22 pm
by Lamak
I'm so glad we have kept Levert through all of this and im expecting a monster year from him.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:22 pm
by shakendfries

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:25 pm
by MrDollarBills
shakendfries wrote:

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Good interview. Caris said all the right things and avoided getting the team into trouble with the tampering that was going on with Durant and Irving behind the scenes. I also liked how he said people aren't talking about the guys that we have on this squad outside of KD/Kyrie. The Nets offense is going to be explosive

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 10:39 pm
by Claud
20/5/5 with better efficiency and better defense is what I expect to see from Caris. Let's hope he can stay healthy.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:26 pm
by Prokorov
Claud wrote:20/5/5 with better efficiency and better defense is what I expect to see from Caris. Let's hope he can stay healthy.


I hope people don't dump on Levert if/when he fails to meet these lofty unrealistic expectations. I think Levert can take another step, but 20/5/5 (on better consistency) seems really out of nowhere. Let me put just how unfair your expectations of him are:

In the past 5 years only 13 players posted a 20/5/5 season:

Lebron, Harden, Curry, Durant, Kyrie, Westbrook, Paul, Griffin, Giannis, Beal, Butler, Jokic, Kobe.

That's a list of hall of fame/superstar players. You dont just see 20/5/5 seasons dropped from fringe all-stars or very good players. you are mostly talking the elite of the elite with maybe a Beal outlier here and there (and even Beal is a top 20 player).

Furhter, Levert has never averaged 20 pts, 5 rebs, or 5 assists, let alone all three...
Leverts career highs are 13.7, 3.8, 3.9 respectively. Obviosuly you would expect improvement, but 20-30% improvement in all 3 categories is unlikely. Looking deeper in the numbers levert doesnt have a single month in his career where he averaged 5 rebounds and only 2 in his career where he averaged 5 assists. he has never averaged 20/5/5 over a single month... in fact there isnt a single split or sample where levert averaged 20/5/5 even if you get wonky like "leverts stats on tuesdays" or even super small samples like "levert vs. the knicks"

To really drive home just how unfair those expectations are lets look at the 2 best stretches of play in leverts career:

-early start to this season
-5 playoff games vs philly

Levert did not average 20/5/5 in either. he did top 20 points in the playoffs but fell short of 5 rebounds (4) and well short of 5 assists (3). in fact even if you take leverts PER36 numbers for the playoffs it is short of 20/5/5.

similarly if you look at leverts red hot month of october, where many said he plays like an all-star or star. he fell short of 20/5/5. in fact he didnt meet that mark in any of points, rebounds, or assists despite being the team #1 option.

So basically, you are expecting levert, who is all but gauranteed to have less usage then he did in october/philly series with Kyrie here, to posts stats 20-30% higher then what we saw on his highest levels.

its unfair to put that on him.

Caris will get better. i expect him to shoot better for sure. but 16/4/3 on 45/35/75 is probably alot closer to what can reasonable be expected. i liken Caris to more of an elite glue guy then a star/superstar. this teams version of shane battier

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 6:15 pm
by Claud
Prokorov wrote:
Claud wrote:20/5/5 with better efficiency and better defense is what I expect to see from Caris. Let's hope he can stay healthy.


I hope people don't dump on Levert if/when he fails to meet these lofty unrealistic expectations. I think Levert can take another step, but 20/5/5 (on better consistency) seems really out of nowhere. Let me put just how unfair your expectations of him are:

In the past 5 years only 13 players posted a 20/5/5 season:

Lebron, Harden, Curry, Durant, Kyrie, Westbrook, Paul, Griffin, Giannis, Beal, Butler, Jokic, Kobe.

That's a list of hall of fame/superstar players. You dont just see 20/5/5 seasons dropped from fringe all-stars or very good players. you are mostly talking the elite of the elite with maybe a Beal outlier here and there (and even Beal is a top 20 player).

Furhter, Levert has never averaged 20 pts, 5 rebs, or 5 assists, let alone all three...
Leverts career highs are 13.7, 3.8, 3.9 respectively. Obviosuly you would expect improvement, but 20-30% improvement in all 3 categories is unlikely. Looking deeper in the numbers levert doesnt have a single month in his career where he averaged 5 rebounds and only 2 in his career where he averaged 5 assists. he has never averaged 20/5/5 over a single month... in fact there isnt a single split or sample where levert averaged 20/5/5 even if you get wonky like "leverts stats on tuesdays" or even super small samples like "levert vs. the knicks"

To really drive home just how unfair those expectations are lets look at the 2 best stretches of play in leverts career:

-early start to this season
-5 playoff games vs philly

Levert did not average 20/5/5 in either. he did top 20 points in the playoffs but fell short of 5 rebounds (4) and well short of 5 assists (3). in fact even if you take leverts PER36 numbers for the playoffs it is short of 20/5/5.

similarly if you look at leverts red hot month of october, where many said he plays like an all-star or star. he fell short of 20/5/5. in fact he didnt meet that mark in any of points, rebounds, or assists despite being the team #1 option.

So basically, you are expecting levert, who is all but gauranteed to have less usage then he did in october/philly series with Kyrie here, to posts stats 20-30% higher then what we saw on his highest levels.

its unfair to put that on him.

Caris will get better. i expect him to shoot better for sure. but 16/4/3 on 45/35/75 is probably alot closer to what can reasonable be expected. i liken Caris to more of an elite glue guy then a star/superstar. this teams version of shane battier


I know you have always been low on Caris but I agree that 20/5/5 on good efficiency would be a significant step up for him. I do think somewhere around those #s is possible for him if everything lines up perfectly. I view him as option #2 after Kyrie.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 7:11 pm
by Prokorov
Claud wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Claud wrote:20/5/5 with better efficiency and better defense is what I expect to see from Caris. Let's hope he can stay healthy.


I hope people don't dump on Levert if/when he fails to meet these lofty unrealistic expectations. I think Levert can take another step, but 20/5/5 (on better consistency) seems really out of nowhere. Let me put just how unfair your expectations of him are:

In the past 5 years only 13 players posted a 20/5/5 season:

Lebron, Harden, Curry, Durant, Kyrie, Westbrook, Paul, Griffin, Giannis, Beal, Butler, Jokic, Kobe.

That's a list of hall of fame/superstar players. You dont just see 20/5/5 seasons dropped from fringe all-stars or very good players. you are mostly talking the elite of the elite with maybe a Beal outlier here and there (and even Beal is a top 20 player).

Furhter, Levert has never averaged 20 pts, 5 rebs, or 5 assists, let alone all three...
Leverts career highs are 13.7, 3.8, 3.9 respectively. Obviosuly you would expect improvement, but 20-30% improvement in all 3 categories is unlikely. Looking deeper in the numbers levert doesnt have a single month in his career where he averaged 5 rebounds and only 2 in his career where he averaged 5 assists. he has never averaged 20/5/5 over a single month... in fact there isnt a single split or sample where levert averaged 20/5/5 even if you get wonky like "leverts stats on tuesdays" or even super small samples like "levert vs. the knicks"

To really drive home just how unfair those expectations are lets look at the 2 best stretches of play in leverts career:

-early start to this season
-5 playoff games vs philly

Levert did not average 20/5/5 in either. he did top 20 points in the playoffs but fell short of 5 rebounds (4) and well short of 5 assists (3). in fact even if you take leverts PER36 numbers for the playoffs it is short of 20/5/5.

similarly if you look at leverts red hot month of october, where many said he plays like an all-star or star. he fell short of 20/5/5. in fact he didnt meet that mark in any of points, rebounds, or assists despite being the team #1 option.

So basically, you are expecting levert, who is all but gauranteed to have less usage then he did in october/philly series with Kyrie here, to posts stats 20-30% higher then what we saw on his highest levels.

its unfair to put that on him.

Caris will get better. i expect him to shoot better for sure. but 16/4/3 on 45/35/75 is probably alot closer to what can reasonable be expected. i liken Caris to more of an elite glue guy then a star/superstar. this teams version of shane battier


I know you have always been low on Caris but I agree that 20/5/5 on good efficiency would be a significant step up for him. I do think somewhere around those #s is possible for him if everything lines up perfectly. I view him as option #2 after Kyrie.


I think he will be the #2 or #2a option (with spencer) as well. I just still think thats not enough volume for him to get to 20 ppg. last year, pre injury, with a ton of volume and the #1 option and playing great he didnt hit 19 ppg. being the second option i dont see how he gets to 20... few team have multiple 20 ppg guys unless the second guy is an elite scorer/shooter and i liken Caris more as an all-around player then a pure scorer. 5 rebs to me is the most lofty, he just isnt a guy who is going to get a ton of rebounds and for his long term health its best if he isnt mixing it up on the glass. 5 assists would also probably require more touches/ball handling then he will get. i think he can certinly rack up some 8 or 10 assist games here and there but averaging 5 is lofty...

only 29 players average 5 assist per game last year and only 3 teams had multiple guys (Harden/Paul, Curry/Draymond, Giannis/bledsoe).

career year? sure? career highs in multiple categories? why not. 20/5/5? way too lofty.

15-17 points, 3-4 rebs, 3-5 assists.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:11 am
by Trader_Joe
He's averaged about 13/4/4 the last.2 years in 26 mpg. I think playing closer to 30 mpg, being a starter and clear option 2 he can approach 18/5/5 on similar percentages to what you think. I'm hoping his 3 really kicks in this year like it did vs. Philly.

Two things...
This team has no strong rebounders in the starting 5 and Caris has the size and length to get boards, especially offensive. Levert may average the most RPGs in the starting 5 after Allen.

Russell was high usage, Irving was lower usage last year, but still high usage. Kenny likes multiple ball handlers. LeVert will be the secondary ball handler when Kyrie is in and primary when he is out.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:48 am
by Prokorov
Trader_Joe wrote:He's averaged about 13/4/4 the last.2 years in 26 mpg. I think playing closer to 30 mpg, being a starter and clear option 2 he can approach 18/5/5 on similar percentages to what you think. I'm hoping his 3 really kicks in this year like it did vs. Philly.

Two things...
This team has no strong rebounders in the starting 5 and Caris has the size and length to get boards, especially offensive. Levert may average the most RPGs in the starting 5 after Allen.

Russell was high usage, Irving was lower usage last year, but still high usage. Kenny likes multiple ball handlers. LeVert will be the secondary ball handler when Kyrie is in and primary when he is out.


i dont see levert averaging 5 rebounds. we had no rebounding last year and he failed to get even 4 rebounds per game. there wasnt even a sinlge month split where he averaged 5 rebounds per game. he didnt average 5 rpg against philly in the playoffs. i just dont see a reasonable projection that gets him to 5. i know for the season he ended up at 26 minutes per game... but in october he averaged 32 mpg and still didnt hit 5 rebounds. he isnt a great rebounder for a gaurd and is below average for a forward. nothing wrong with that. he is a decent rebounder... and more importanlty once he does get the rebound good things follow.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:57 am
by Trader_Joe
Prokorov wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:He's averaged about 13/4/4 the last.2 years in 26 mpg. I think playing closer to 30 mpg, being a starter and clear option 2 he can approach 18/5/5 on similar percentages to what you think. I'm hoping his 3 really kicks in this year like it did vs. Philly.

Two things...
This team has no strong rebounders in the starting 5 and Caris has the size and length to get boards, especially offensive. Levert may average the most RPGs in the starting 5 after Allen.

Russell was high usage, Irving was lower usage last year, but still high usage. Kenny likes multiple ball handlers. LeVert will be the secondary ball handler when Kyrie is in and primary when he is out.


i dont see levert averaging 5 rebounds. we had no rebounding last year and he failed to get even 4 rebounds per game. there wasnt even a sinlge month split where he averaged 5 rebounds per game. he didnt average 5 rpg against philly in the playoffs. i just dont see a reasonable projection that gets him to 5. i know for the season he ended up at 26 minutes per game... but in october he averaged 32 mpg and still didnt hit 5 rebounds. he isnt a great rebounder for a gaurd and is below average for a forward. nothing wrong with that. he is a decent rebounder... and more importanlty once he does get the rebound good things follow.

Both should be over 4 and if all goes well I think close to 5. Irving is a better shooter than Russell and can thrive off the attention Caris can get. I think Caris is gonna be the closest thing to Kyrie's 2019/20 version of KD.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:01 am
by Prokorov
Trader_Joe wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:He's averaged about 13/4/4 the last.2 years in 26 mpg. I think playing closer to 30 mpg, being a starter and clear option 2 he can approach 18/5/5 on similar percentages to what you think. I'm hoping his 3 really kicks in this year like it did vs. Philly.

Two things...
This team has no strong rebounders in the starting 5 and Caris has the size and length to get boards, especially offensive. Levert may average the most RPGs in the starting 5 after Allen.

Russell was high usage, Irving was lower usage last year, but still high usage. Kenny likes multiple ball handlers. LeVert will be the secondary ball handler when Kyrie is in and primary when he is out.


i dont see levert averaging 5 rebounds. we had no rebounding last year and he failed to get even 4 rebounds per game. there wasnt even a sinlge month split where he averaged 5 rebounds per game. he didnt average 5 rpg against philly in the playoffs. i just dont see a reasonable projection that gets him to 5. i know for the season he ended up at 26 minutes per game... but in october he averaged 32 mpg and still didnt hit 5 rebounds. he isnt a great rebounder for a gaurd and is below average for a forward. nothing wrong with that. he is a decent rebounder... and more importanlty once he does get the rebound good things follow.

Both should be over 4 and if all goes well I think close to 5. Irving is a better shooter than Russell and can thrive off the attention Caris can get. I think Caris is gonna be the closest thing to Kyrie's 2019/20 version of KD.


kyrie is too good on the ball and in the pick and roll not to be the primary option. he may get less usage then russell giving caris more touches then he got when DLO was here, but levert wont reach the usage and shots that he did in october last year... and even in 32 mpg with super high usage levert didnt hit 20, 5 or 5.

which is fine. the whole point is that its putting unfair expectations on him. he should improve, hopefully add some consistency. but he isnt going to be a superstar and 20/5/5 is superstar benchmark

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:31 am
by Trader_Joe
Prokorov wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
i dont see levert averaging 5 rebounds. we had no rebounding last year and he failed to get even 4 rebounds per game. there wasnt even a sinlge month split where he averaged 5 rebounds per game. he didnt average 5 rpg against philly in the playoffs. i just dont see a reasonable projection that gets him to 5. i know for the season he ended up at 26 minutes per game... but in october he averaged 32 mpg and still didnt hit 5 rebounds. he isnt a great rebounder for a gaurd and is below average for a forward. nothing wrong with that. he is a decent rebounder... and more importanlty once he does get the rebound good things follow.

Both should be over 4 and if all goes well I think close to 5. Irving is a better shooter than Russell and can thrive off the attention Caris can get. I think Caris is gonna be the closest thing to Kyrie's 2019/20 version of KD.


kyrie is too good on the ball and in the pick and roll not to be the primary option. he may get less usage then russell giving caris more touches then he got when DLO was here, but levert wont reach the usage and shots that he did in october last year... and even in 32 mpg with super high usage levert didnt hit 20, 5 or 5.

which is fine. the whole point is that its putting unfair expectations on him. he should improve, hopefully add some consistency. but he isnt going to be a superstar and 20/5/5 is superstar benchmark

I don't think he hits 20ppg, but the ability to get close to 5/5.

Re: Official Caris LeVert Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:33 am
by Prokorov
Trader_Joe wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:Both should be over 4 and if all goes well I think close to 5. Irving is a better shooter than Russell and can thrive off the attention Caris can get. I think Caris is gonna be the closest thing to Kyrie's 2019/20 version of KD.


kyrie is too good on the ball and in the pick and roll not to be the primary option. he may get less usage then russell giving caris more touches then he got when DLO was here, but levert wont reach the usage and shots that he did in october last year... and even in 32 mpg with super high usage levert didnt hit 20, 5 or 5.

which is fine. the whole point is that its putting unfair expectations on him. he should improve, hopefully add some consistency. but he isnt going to be a superstar and 20/5/5 is superstar benchmark

I don't think he hits 20ppg, but the ability to get close to 5/5.


i dont know... at his absolute apex in 32 mpg as the clear #1 option he couldnt hit 5 rebs or assts let alone both. i think the ball moves too much on the nets for anyone other then kyrie to hit 5 assists. and he just isnt a rebounder for that to come to fruition.