The Official Lin Net Thread II

[2k15]

it takes luck no matter what... and i dont need top 3 picks. whatever we end up with oganically is fine. i dont need a quick fix. build something that is sustainable for decades so when we do have a shot at a top player or luck into one in the draft we can capitalize on it and if we dont get that player we still have competitive team of guys developed through our won system.





i dont want to tank at all nor do i want to get rid of all our vets. i just dont want to pay 20 million a year for leadership and cap out a team half full of JAGS.

tanking is intentionally losing. thats different from not having talent, trying to win, but losing due to lack of talent as you continue to prioritize culture, development, and infrastructure.

i dont need to think about wins until 2020.

i think you have a longer view on the timeframe than management. case in point is the allen crabbe trade, which is largely panned as a win-now move. marks himself acknowledged that there is some pressure to be competitive out of respect for the ownership. all of this is to say none of us really knows whats up next but it may well not be 2020 timeframe.

Crabbe isnt a win now move at all... it may be the biggest long term move we made.... investing heavily on 100% potential.

management has said they are looking several years down the road. 2020 at the earliest is when we will look to win

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:

"We are ready to be patient," said Dmitry Razumov, the Nets' chairman and main U.S. representative of Mikhail Prokhorov, the team's owner. "We went the other way, and failed miserably." Ownership would accept a 25-win season in 2017-18. "That would be fine," Razumov said, "if the young guys make progress."

management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

[Prokorov]

i think you have a longer view on the timeframe than management. case in point is the allen crabbe trade, which is largely panned as a win-now move. marks himself acknowledged that there is some pressure to be competitive out of respect for the ownership. all of this is to say none of us really knows whats up next but it may well not be 2020 timeframe.

Crabbe isnt a win now move at all... it may be the biggest long term move we made.... investing heavily on 100% potential.

management has said they are looking several years down the road. 2020 at the earliest is when we will look to win

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:

"We are ready to be patient," said Dmitry Razumov, the Nets' chairman and main U.S. representative of Mikhail Prokhorov, the team's owner. "We went the other way, and failed miserably." Ownership would accept a 25-win season in 2017-18. "That would be fine," Razumov said, "if the young guys make progress."

management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

as marks said, progress isnt measured by wins.

we can go 0-82 the next 3 years and it wont matter

[2k15]

Crabbe isnt a win now move at all... it may be the biggest long term move we made.... investing heavily on 100% potential.

management has said they are looking several years down the road. 2020 at the earliest is when we will look to win

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:

"We are ready to be patient," said Dmitry Razumov, the Nets' chairman and main U.S. representative of Mikhail Prokhorov, the team's owner. "We went the other way, and failed miserably." Ownership would accept a 25-win season in 2017-18. "That would be fine," Razumov said, "if the young guys make progress."

management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

as marks said, progress isnt measured by wins.

we can go 0-82 the next 3 years and it wont matter

lol you don't really believe that. if we go 0-82, someone is getting fired. progress doesn't have a 1-1 correlation to winning but there should be some correlation.

[reelsgm]

The team went 1-27. All dreaded Wins, all sought to avert Wins. All parties deprecated Wins, but one of them (Lin) would make Wins rather than let the team perish, and the others would accept Wins to survive for another day, and the Wins came. 11-12.

Give a healthy Lin minutes and he will drag you kicking and screaming to Wins. It's coming.

[2k15]

Crabbe isnt a win now move at all... it may be the biggest long term move we made.... investing heavily on 100% potential.

management has said they are looking several years down the road. 2020 at the earliest is when we will look to win

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:

"We are ready to be patient," said Dmitry Razumov, the Nets' chairman and main U.S. representative of Mikhail Prokhorov, the team's owner. "We went the other way, and failed miserably." Ownership would accept a 25-win season in 2017-18. "That would be fine," Razumov said, "if the young guys make progress."

management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

as marks said, progress isnt measured by wins.

we can go 0-82 the next 3 years and it wont matter

Wagering on Crabbe also shows the Nets feel some pressure to improve.

"There is a limit to how much dead money you can take," Marks said. "You end up with a roster of 21-year-olds and dead salary."

"We need to show progress," Atkinson said, "out of respect for ownership."

[2k15]

The team went 1-27. All dreaded Wins, all sought to avert Wins. All parties deprecated Wins, but one of them (Lin) would make Wins rather than let the team perish, and the others would accept Wins to survive for another day, and the Wins came. 11-12.

Give a healthy Lin minutes and he will drag you kicking and screaming to Wins. It's coming.

[reelsgm]

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:



management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

as marks said, progress isnt measured by wins.

we can go 0-82 the next 3 years and it wont matter

"There is a limit to how much dead money you can take," Marks said. "You end up with a roster of 21-year-olds and dead salary."

"We need to show progress," Atkinson said, "out of respect for ownership."

Back and forth with Markinson quote, counter-quote - it's all politically correct doublespeak.

The only thing that matters is who the Nets have on the floor when it comes time to winning and Wins. Our average age of anticipated starters is 27.5yo (4yo+ last season) that indicates new found respect for Winning and less for development. Quotes don't affect players ages.

[reelsgm]

The team went 1-27. All dreaded Wins, all sought to avert Wins. All parties deprecated Wins, but one of them (Lin) would make Wins rather than let the team perish, and the others would accept Wins to survive for another day, and the Wins came. 11-12.

Give a healthy Lin minutes and he will drag you kicking and screaming to Wins. It's coming.

I sense frustration?

[MrDollarBills]

i think you have a longer view on the timeframe than management. case in point is the allen crabbe trade, which is largely panned as a win-now move. marks himself acknowledged that there is some pressure to be competitive out of respect for the ownership. all of this is to say none of us really knows whats up next but it may well not be 2020 timeframe.

Crabbe isnt a win now move at all... it may be the biggest long term move we made.... investing heavily on 100% potential.

management has said they are looking several years down the road. 2020 at the earliest is when we will look to win

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:

"We are ready to be patient," said Dmitry Razumov, the Nets' chairman and main U.S. representative of Mikhail Prokhorov, the team's owner. "We went the other way, and failed miserably." Ownership would accept a 25-win season in 2017-18. "That would be fine," Razumov said, "if the young guys make progress."

management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

Wins aren't correlated to the individual month by month improvement/development of each of the young players.

The man said he doesn't care if we win 25 games as long as guys improved. Trying to infer anything else from that is a bit much.

[2k15]

Crabbe isnt a win now move at all... it may be the biggest long term move we made.... investing heavily on 100% potential.

management has said they are looking several years down the road. 2020 at the earliest is when we will look to win

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:

"We are ready to be patient," said Dmitry Razumov, the Nets' chairman and main U.S. representative of Mikhail Prokhorov, the team's owner. "We went the other way, and failed miserably." Ownership would accept a 25-win season in 2017-18. "That would be fine," Razumov said, "if the young guys make progress."

management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

Wins aren't correlated to the individual month by month improvement/development of each of the young players.

The man said he doesn't care if we win 25 games as long as guys improved. Trying to infer anything else from that is a bit much.

/shrug

That's my read of it. He didn't say he doesn't care. He said 25 wins is acceptable if there is progress. It then begs the question as to what is sufficient progress.

Look, I already said above that nobody really knows until we get there. If I had to guess based on the signaling, I would think that there is more pressure to be competitive than what is being suggested by fans.

[MrDollarBills]

The team went 1-27. All dreaded Wins, all sought to avert Wins. All parties deprecated Wins, but one of them (Lin) would make Wins rather than let the team perish, and the others would accept Wins to survive for another day, and the Wins came. 11-12.

Give a healthy Lin minutes and he will drag you kicking and screaming to Wins. It's coming.

[MrDollarBills]

im just reading between the lines here. from the latest zach lowe article:



management is willing to be patient only if the young guys make progress. so the question is how much progress are we making if we're not winning (i interpret to mean competing for playoff spots at least) until 2020? i read that to mean ownership expects more than you do from the current crop.

Wins aren't correlated to the individual month by month improvement/development of each of the young players.

The man said he doesn't care if we win 25 games as long as guys improved. Trying to infer anything else from that is a bit much.

/shrug

That's my read of it. He didn't say he doesn't care. He said 25 wins is acceptable if there is progress. It then begs the question as to what is sufficient progress.

Look, I already said above that nobody really knows until we get there. If I had to guess based on the signaling, I would think that there is more pressure to be competitive than what is being suggested by fans.

If the Nets expect to make the playoffs with a bunch of 21-25 year old kids as their main cogs they are delusional. I don't think the pressure to be "competitive" includes that. Guys need to improve, and we need to play hard in games. Same as last year....I'm not sure what is leading you to believe that the aim is not to go out to win every not while guys play through growing pains.

[2k15]

If the Nets expect to make the playoffs with a bunch of 21-25 year old kids as their main cogs they are delusional. I don't think the pressure to be "competitive" includes that. Guys need to improve, and we need to play hard in games. Same as last year....I'm not sure what is leading you to believe that the aim is not to go out to win every not while guys play through growing pains.

I am not even sure what we're debating anymore.

[Roy Tarpley]

If the Nets expect to make the playoffs with a bunch of 21-25 year old kids as their main cogs they are delusional. I don't think the pressure to be "competitive" includes that. Guys need to improve, and we need to play hard in games. Same as last year....I'm not sure what is leading you to believe that the aim is not to go out to win every not while guys play through growing pains.

I am not even sure what we're debating anymore.

Playoffs are very optimistic but I don't think 35+ wins is crazy when we have a lot of veterans:

Lin 29 yrs - 30 mpg
Carroll 31 yrs - 24 mpg
Skil 27 yrs - 20 mpg
Mozgov 31 yrs - 24 mpg
Booker 30 yrs - 22 mpg
Crabbe 25 yrs - 28 mpg
Acy 27 yrs - 10 mpg
Harris 26 yrs - 6 mpg

The majority of the 240 total minutes allotted will be for players 25 and older.

[tonman]

Number of wins aren't important though that doesn't mean this team won't try to make the playoffs.

It's how we lose that's important. Nets are showing that they are playing hard and the right way whatever that means but that doesn't mean we play 21 year olds across the board and only bring in the vets to give them a breather and mentoring.

Winning cures a lot of ills but the nets want sustainability and that is what marks is alluding to. He can try to bring in players and increase the win total but it would not do much for the future. So the team is being put together with a mixed of youth and veterans.

If. These younger talented players can't win the starting position Way from the vets then those players aren't going to make a big impact. Russell appears to be the one bright spot but even the Lakers moved him to shooting guard. Lever has promise so he needs to best out the new Guys. Rhj may have moved ahead of Booker but that's not saying much. Lets see what Allen can do.

[reelsgm]

Number of wins aren't important though that doesn't mean this team won't try to make the playoffs.

It's how we lose that's important. Nets are showing that they are playing hard and the right way whatever that means but that doesn't mean we play 21 year olds across the board and only bring in the vets to give them a breather and mentoring.

Winning cures a lot of ills but the nets want sustainability and that is what marks is alluding to. He can try to bring in players and increase the win total but it would not do much for the future. So the team is being put together with a mixed of youth and veterans.

If. These younger talented players can't win the starting position Way from the vets then those players aren't going to make a big impact. Russell appears to be the one bright spot but even the Lakers moved him to shooting guard. Lever has promise so he needs to best out the new Guys. Rhj may have moved ahead of Booker but that's not saying much. Lets see what Allen can do.

Bravo! Bravo!
Correct,Wins absolutely aren't important...and even "how we lose" isn't important ... Participation is most important.

At season end, a great big ceremony where NETs Parents stand next to their professional NBA basketball playing son, as he's awarded a Participation Tropy (a trophy is way better than a ring anyway)

uhh Sorry, a healthy Lin spoils this losses and participation, pity-parade.

[MrDollarBills]

Stop being obtuse. The Nets are going to try to win as many games as possible, its not about "participating" or whatever condescending horse **** being thrown out there. Anyone who is being realistic, or whose head isn't shoved way too far up Jeremy Lin's ass, can step back and see that this team has a lot of young talent that has to grow and some veterans who are a bit above average(Lin, Carroll, Mozgov), but aren't great. So playoffs are nowhere near a given, but a 30 win or better season is definitely possible.

And I'm sorry, stop this Lin is going to drag guys to wins. Get real. For as much as I like Jeremy Lin, he's not above committing mental errors late in games, or getting his ass kicked on the court, like George Hill did to him last season. If we win anywhere near enough to be in the 8-10 range all season long, it will be a complete team effort. Nets fans are excited, the only pity parade is coming from insecure Lin trolls who are nervous about D'Angelo Russell.

[2k15]

Stop being obtuse. The Nets are going to try to win as many games as possible, its not about "participating" or whatever condescending horse **** being thrown out there. Anyone who is being realistic, or whose head isn't shoved way too far up Jeremy Lin's ass, can step back and see that this team has a lot of young talent that has to grow and some veterans who are a bit above average(Lin, Carroll, Mozgov), but aren't great. So playoffs are nowhere near a given, but a 30 win or better season is definitely possible.

And I'm sorry, stop this Lin is going to drag guys to wins. Get real. For as much as I like Jeremy Lin, he's not above committing mental errors late in games, or getting his ass kicked on the court, like George Hill did to him last season. If we win anywhere near enough to be in the 8-10 range all season long, it will be a complete team effort. Nets fans are excited, the only pity parade is coming from insecure Lin trolls who are nervous about D'Angelo Russell.

ur witch hunt has gotten ridiculous.

[lin is ok]

Stop being obtuse. The Nets are going to try to win as many games as possible, its not about "participating" or whatever condescending horse **** being thrown out there. Anyone who is being realistic, or whose head isn't shoved way too far up Jeremy Lin's ass, can step back and see that this team has a lot of young talent that has to grow and some veterans who are a bit above average(Lin, Carroll, Mozgov), but aren't great. So playoffs are nowhere near a given, but a 30 win or better season is definitely possible.

And I'm sorry, stop this Lin is going to drag guys to wins. Get real. For as much as I like Jeremy Lin, he's not above committing mental errors late in games, or getting his ass kicked on the court, like George Hill did to him last season. If we win anywhere near enough to be in the 8-10 range all season long, it will be a complete team effort. Nets fans are excited, the only pity parade is coming from insecure Lin trolls who are nervous about D'Angelo Russell.

ur witch hunt has gotten ridiculous.

MrDollarbills is cool and fair about Lin, but that said Lin has no choice but to aim for the sky. Thats why he chose to be with the nets . prove that he can carry a team. Otherwise he would been back with the Hornets.

[reelsgm]

Stop being obtuse. The Nets are going to try to win as many games as possible, its not about "participating" or whatever condescending horse **** being thrown out there. Anyone who is being realistic, or whose head isn't shoved way too far up Jeremy Lin's ass, can step back and see that this team has a lot of young talent that has to grow and some veterans who are a bit above average(Lin, Carroll, Mozgov), but aren't great. So playoffs are nowhere near a given, but a 30 win or better season is definitely possible.

And I'm sorry, stop this Lin is going to drag guys to wins. Get real. For as much as I like Jeremy Lin, he's not above committing mental errors late in games, or getting his ass kicked on the court, like George Hill did to him last season. If we win anywhere near enough to be in the 8-10 range all season long, it will be a complete team effort. Nets fans are excited, the only pity parade is coming from insecure Lin trolls who are nervous about D'Angelo Russell.

ur witch hunt has gotten ridiculous.

MrDollarbills is cool and fair about Lin, but that said Lin has no choice but to aim for the sky. Thats why he chose to be with the nets . prove that he can carry a team. Otherwise he would been back with the Hornets.

MrDollarbills has called me a troll and ordered me to "stop" posting whatever he deems inappropirate a couple dozen times by now. But MrDollarbills still never gets the hint that I don't give a flying farg about his commandments to me. And frankly if he has a problem with reading about Jeremy Lin the Brooklyn player - he ought to avoid the Lin thread.